Aspects of the Dragonball series that piss you off

[Terra-jin]

@Rocketman, Jerseymilk and Xyex: Obviously, I know that's how it works in Dragonball. But I think Dragonball would be a richer story if the element of technique was more present in the story. I'm sure, if one would put more effort into establishing the concept of ki, that technique can be given a more important role during fights.
For example, someone with low technique would only be capable of forming big, unpolished shapes and/or intensities of ki, while someone with high technique is capable of forming smaller, more efficiënt energy waves with different purposes. It's not unthinkable.
A similar point was introduced when Raditz commented that Earth's fighters could focus their energy in a single point, while fighters in Freeza's army were used to just using their 'default' energylevel for attacks. Of course, techniques like this can be seen as an increase of power - as was the case with the Earth's fighters - but it proves my point that beings with lower power, yet better technique can rival with beings above their power.

[Rory]

I just hate how the Boo arc was meant to be the Gohan hero story, sure he beat Cell, but here's his chance to actually hold a story line by himself! As soon as I heard Goku was coming back I just thought:
" Fuck. "
Back to the traditonal " Goku is the only one strong enough to win " formula, even though fusions and power-ups were there, it was made blatantly obvious that by pure Training, Goku was the strongest.
The whole story felt like an excuse to have Goku and Vegeta fight again to me, and after that was over it was like " Um, shit, what should we do now? " Then the story started to drag.
" Shall we end it like this? No no! How about Fusion! .. Nah, I don't want Gotenks to win... well, we tried to make Gohan the hero, lets give him a shot... nah, thats not working out, lets give it back to Goku.."
The whole arc just feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be, and it pisses me off when I'm reading/watching it at times.
PS: Sorry for my long rant there, just needed to get that off my chest.

[caejones]

Buu... felt like a really badass series of movies, maybe? (At first I was going to say fanfic... but the same effect isn't there).
The Buu saga has several distinct subarks--I'd say more than the other arks (if we treat Saiyan and Freeza as separate). We have Gohan in Highschool, (Goku in otherworld if you include the filler?), the world tournament /Majin Vegeta-to-Buu stuff (everything there sorta seemed to flow together, and it's been noted how much of a chapter close Vegeta's sacrifice is). Then there's the Fusion stuff (though I'm not sure that I'd not subdivide that further considering what happens with Buu and Gohan in that time), then the postapocalyptic stuff that seems to culminate with Vegetto... then Kid Buu.
The problem I guess is that when you put these together, it jerks things around a lot; combine that with the buildup of the rest of the series and how various characters get used (and abused?), it's no wonder people complain about it so much.
Actually... making a single movie To cover the Buu Saga would probably be insanely difficult. (Though a what-if in the vein of FindKenshi's Mr. Cell fic might work...).

Nah, I think what annoys me is the build up of really awesome characters that become jokes later on because 'lol goku pwnx0rz'. Wit certain characters there were reasons for them to just disappear--Future Trunks had limited timetravel abilities, and probably wouldn't waste it just hanging out to fight (Movie9 aside. XD), Yajirobe is a lazy slob (though his change from a second-tier swordsman to the beandaddy is a bit 'o_o?'), and a lot of one-time DB people lacked motivation to hang in there (Namu, #8, Etc; interestingly enough, many of these one-shot characters saw lots of extra action in Piccolo Daimao filler, and to some extent in the early RRA stuff with Namu, Giran, ChiChi and Gyu-mao).
It's like, there are a lot of characters because of how much the story moves around with regards to location and time, but most of them only serve the purpose they appeared for and disappear after that. That's fine, I s'ppose--that's how some relations in this side of reality work--but it gets sigh-worthy when it happens to primary and secondary characters (the shafted humans league, mostly, though Meri's list of top-five characters with wasted potential illustrates my feelings on the matter very well).

... I don't even know what I just did.

[Jerseymilk]

I was talking about ki.

And so was I. Those same things would still apply.

Well... let's not forget the TaiChi concepts of fighting--don't meet an attack head-on, when riding it and using it to take the advantage is safer for everyone involved! Which is pretty much the opposite of fighting in DBZ, where it's just Force Vs Force. Granted, there are a lot of cases where a more submisive style of fighting (o.o at my wordchoice) wouldn't work (i.e, people blowing up planets), but... it'd have been interesting...

Then again, TaiChi is pretty much just a type of Kung-Fu done very slowly.

I get where you're coming from though.

[Mike D]

For example, someone with low technique would only be capable of forming big, unpolished shapes and/or intensities of ki, while someone with high technique is capable of forming smaller, more efficiënt energy waves with different purposes.

This concept is somewhat present in the series. A lot of characters had techniques that served specific purposes. Piccolo (a character known for his skill) had the makkankosappou which was a smaller corkscrew-like attack whose purpose was only to pierce. Kuririn created kienzan to be disc-like blade that was made to dismember, and Tenshinhan created the taiyoken to blind enemies as well as the kikoho which used pressure. Freeza was also a character who had some new looking moves.

There were also those with low technique. For example, when Piccolo threw Gohan towards that rock, he annihilated that thing with possibly the largest blast of energy that the series has seen (up until that point at least) all because he had no idea what he was doing.

The saiyans weren't the most glamorous fighters either. They were known for only being brutes, this is demonstrated by everyone of Vegeta's special attacks. They weren't technical at all, in fact they were viewed as being quite stupid. The original Majin Buu falls into this category as well. He was a brutal savage only capable of destruction and destructive ki attacks.

The point I am getting at is that the characters with the best skills (Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Freeza) were capable of creating techniques unlike others. Where as those who didn't have technique (the saiyans, Majin Buu) were only capable of making things go boom.

[Rocketman]

Vegeta used the Destructo-Disk, too.

[Mike D]

I was waiting for that.

But one swallow does not a summer make.

[Thanos6]

It really pisses me off when someone (i.e. Goku or Gohan) becomes so much more incredibly powerful than the rest of the cast and renders them obsolete (except for the Vegeta fight). I much prefer it when the main hero is just a LITTLE more powerful, a LITTLE more skilled, which is why I hate, for example, the "Majunior" fight and the Cell Games and Movie 9.

Also: Mirai Trunks leaving the series. They should have found a way to leave him in the present. Would be hilarious to see him watching how his 'younger brother' turns out so differently.

[Xyex]

Also: Mirai Trunks leaving the series. They should have found a way to leave him in the present. Would be hilarious to see him watching how his 'younger brother' turns out so differently.

I always thought he should have come back to visit again, to celebrate the 7 years of peace in both time-lines. Both sagas, Android and Buu, occured in May (early May for Buu, mid-to-late May for the Androids). So if he'd come back on May 1st for a month long visit he could have been around to witness Saiyaman and enter the tournament and gone from there~

@Rocketman, Jerseymilk and Xyex: Obviously, I know that's how it works in Dragonball. But I think Dragonball would be a richer story if the element of technique was more present in the story. I'm sure, if one would put more effort into establishing the concept of ki, that technique can be given a more important role during fights.
For example, someone with low technique would only be capable of forming big, unpolished shapes and/or intensities of ki, while someone with high technique is capable of forming smaller, more efficiënt energy waves with different purposes. It's not unthinkable.

Mike D already made several of the points I was going to, but I'll go over them all anyway.

This is seen through out the series. Where technique does have some effect and advantage when powers are close enough (no amount of technique/skill could (or should) let Roshi beat the Ginyu Force or something). In early DB it was the very use of Ki moves. As time went on you had the Kamehameha, after image, flight, Tien's Solar Flare, 4-arm move, and Multi-Form. Goku's Kamehameha from the feet, the aforementioned ability to focus Ki to a specific point for stronger attacks.

Piccolo developed the Special Beam Canon and Krillin the Destructo Disc. Goku's controlable Kamehameha and mastery of the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb, moves even their creator couldn't perform. They developed the ability to hide their energy, the Saiya-jins gained more control over their SSJ transformation, Piccolo created the Scatter Shot. Then there's the Fusion Dance and most of Gotenks moves~

*Takes a deep breath*

So yeah, instances of technique are all through the series. Even Vegeta's control over his Final Flash he used on Cell is an example of technique and skill. Dragonball just blends in the skill with everything else making it easy to over look. Which is fine by me. Otherwise the show would have been far to technical.

[Kid Trunks]

The Dragonball Z movies should have taken a few risks, and made some different characters the main protagonists, its the perfect opportunity. Especially since characters like Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo and Tien have so many fans.

Also, Goku should have remained dead after the Cell saga. And Trunks and Goten should have taken over. Although i'd settle for Vegeta taking over...just anyone but Goku and Gohan

[bkev]

I liked how Toriyama tried to make Gohan the hero for a little while, but I guess people liked Goku too much for him to not be in the spotlight.

[caejones]

*Looks around, wondering when Rocketman will remind us of Goten and Trunks' performance in the Buu saga*

Though yeah, some more creative movies would have been interesting... although I wouldn't say in who won so much as how things progressed, as Toriyama has this tendency to make random unusual things happen (Randomly bringing in Cell, Yajirobe being useful in the Vegeta fight, Piccolo killing Shenron... and that's just action plot-side. XD).
Typically the movies were pretty straight forward and made the "repititious plot structure" even more... umm... repititious. (SPSPSP... ).
Movies 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12, and maybe 9... "Bad guy attacks. Secondary characters get owned, hero (usually Goku) fights, does decent, villain transforms, hero gets pwn'd, then gets a random powerup and wins." And for Gohan, that "random powerup" in the movies was always the ghost of Goku (whether figuratively or otherwise, since we can't agree on movie10).
I haven't seen movie11, but it sounds like it actually took some rather interesting liberties with the way things work compared to normal... and yet still annoyed people. (Well, Broli III automatically makes that understandable...).

... I rant too much.

[Mike D]

*Looks around, wondering when Rocketman will remind us of Goten and Trunks' performance in the Buu saga*

I haven't seen movie11, but it sounds like it actually took some rather interesting liberties with the way things work compared to normal... and yet still annoyed people. (Well, Broli III automatically makes that understandable...).

It annoyed people only because it was another Broli movie. The formula was unique which is what made it fun to watch. It highlighted Goten, Trunks, Android #18, and even Mr. Satan. But like I said, it was another Broli movie.

And unlike the genki-dama, a triple kamehameha isn't a good ending to recycle IMHO...

[Thanos6]

Especially not with Trunks. He has his own damn moves!

[Rocketman]

Especially not with Trunks. He has his own damn moves!

... like what?

*Looks around, wondering when Rocketman will remind us of Goten and Trunks' performance in the Buu saga*

Worse than Goku on his wedding night.

[Thanos6]

Like that whatchamacallit he used at the Budokai, that almost hit the crowd. He knows about the Kamehameha but Vegeta has taught him his own set of moves he should use.

[Vekurotto]

Since we're talking about the movies, I really think if they laid off and made less of them, then we'd have much better products. Can't change their decision to make 17 DB movies, but I honestly wish that they made just 3 or so since well, you could do without 14 of 'em

[Mike D]

This was mentioned earlier, but why did Piccolo get ripped off so badly? I mean unlike the others that became less popular, Piccolo was actually a bad ass villain. I mean technically, he ruled the planet at one point and was the first villain to destroy some shit (Shenron, the Tenkaichi Budokai ring), kill some major characters (Kamesennin, Kuririn), and make a complete 180 to sacrifice his life for his rival's son and begin the development of DragonBall Z's most powerful non-fusion character.

So why did he get screwed over? He had mad skills (it was stated that he was weaker than Freeza but still got in that ass) which he happily displayed while nearly killing Goku who was stronger than him. He had a lot of different techniques, and he killed the first villain of DBZ after changing from a demon to a regular being.

Let me emphasize that; he changed from a demon into a regular being.



Is that even possible?


Not to mention that he knew magic. How bad ass is that? He could create fucking clothes on the spot. Not only clothes, but weapons too. He was telepathic. He was the original fusion. He introduced regeneration, weighted clothing, and mouth beams. He wore purple. What the hell! Purple! Only a pimp could beat somebodies ass in purple for real.

My man could even extend his arms. He had fangs, antennae, and is still the only character that makes everyone around him feel uncomfortable as hell.

So why was he turned into stone by some pink bastard's spit?

Honestly, the last notable thing he did was slice Babidi in half (which still was cool as hell). Now he's reduced to trembling like a bitch when a pink asshole with a dick on his head appears at his lookout only to give this bubble gum asswipe a tour.

Sigh. It hurt to see such a developed character be put to the waste side. I mean he finally fused back into his original form only to be the strongest ever for a shorter period than Freeza's five minutes. Not to mention that while he was the strongest, he got bested by a taiyoken...

I mean Vegeta was a tough ass villain as well. In fact, he had his own saga (like Piccolo) but yet he got to keep his worth throughout the series. So why did Piccolo get the human fighter treatment? If it had not been for his fight with Goku, DBZ would not have become the great action anime that we all love. Speaking of that fight, it had some of the most beautiful and fluid animation we have seen since Hokuto no Ken II. Even triangle crap looked good in that fight.

My only question is why?

[Rocketman]

He's not Saiyan.

[Snail]

He still had his time to shine up until the Imperfect Cell arc; it's reasonable I think, unlike the rest of the human fighters *sigh.