Vic Mignogna

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
XanatosVanBadass
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:36 am

Bryesque wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:47 am
Blind-clicking a YouTube link is like Russian Roulette for your suggested videos list. One false move and you're shoulder-deep in 'gater shit. :lol:
It’s reverse roulette. You’re more likely than not to stumble into alt right/republican nonsense when dealing with the anime fandom. Hell, I saw a vid comparing Vic to that Shield Hero series. Granted, that shows a whole problematic can of worms.

User avatar
XanatosVanBadass
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:49 pm

Speaking of idiotic YouTube videos from the apologists, I just saw one that’s a real doozy. Vic supporters are now claiming that Toei is going to make Funi fire Sean and Monica. :lol: Its obvious nonsense, but I kinda wish it would happen. Just to see the StandWithVic dubbies cry.

User avatar
KBABZ
I Live Here
Posts: 4746
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:56 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:49 pm
Speaking of idiotic YouTube videos from the apologists, I just saw one that’s a real doozy. Vic supporters are now claiming that Toei is going to make Funi fire Sean and Monica. :lol: Its obvious nonsense, but I kinda wish it would happen. Just to see the StandWithVic dubbies cry.
Got the words crossed, there?

When I was looking for Funi's YouTube channel for the Black Brick stuff, I saw a YouTube video that was titled "THE END OF FUNIMATION: TOEI KNOWS ABOUT VIC". Journalists they ain't.

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2781
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:05 pm

Hey, while we're on the topic... What's Gamergate?

I keep hearing mentions of it, but I've NO idea what it's about. Could someone please fill me in? Tank you :) !
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
KBABZ
I Live Here
Posts: 4746
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:11 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:05 pm
Hey, while we're on the topic... What's Gamergate?

I keep hearing mentions of it, but I've NO idea what it's about. Could someone please fill me in? Tank you :) !
Oh boy, that's a BIG topic. Basically Gamergate originated through people taking ethics with Kotaku and conspiracies involving ethics in games journalism ("YOUR GF WORKED ON THIS GAME I CAN'T TRUST YOUR OPINION YOU HACK"), but quickly spiraled out of control as any old asshole could just use the Twitter hashtag to be, well, an asshole. At it's weirdest it involved sponsoring a goat (seriously), at its worst it involved sending death threats to Anita Sarkeesian and her entire family on a daily basis. They're also the source of the whole "a web text adventure about dealing with depression IS NOT A VIDEO GAME SMH" thing. It occurred in around 2012-2013.

In the context of this thread, anyone compared to a Gamergater is not considered to be a good person at all to the person saying it.

User avatar
Akamay
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Akamay » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:21 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:05 pm
Hey, while we're on the topic... What's Gamergate?

I keep hearing mentions of it, but I've NO idea what it's about. Could someone please fill me in? Tank you :) !
Gamergate was a movement created to promote better practices in gaming journalism.
At that time there were a bunch of companies paying people to give out good comments about their games/platforms and the deals were not fully disclosed.

One female developer slept with a journalist and the guy wrote an article talking well about her game.
People were pissed, started attacking the developer, she took down people's videos with copyright strikes.
At the same point, there was a documentary about female representation in gaming and people started attacking the person behind the documentary.

Since people were attacking people in favor of feminism, the whole movement was branded as being anti-feminist.

There is a lot more to this, but this is a very brief rundown.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 16634
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:26 pm

GamerGate pretended to be a legitimate concern over "ethics in games journalism." It wasn't. It was an attack first and foremost on women in the games industry that further extended to attacks on any and all progressive viewpoints or initiatives in games production, journalism, criticism, analysis, etc.

It was and is a hate movement. Do not believe anyone that attempts to paint it as anything other than that. The fact that Jeff Gerstmann's very public dismissal due to actual unethical separations of advertising and editorial wasn't the spark for it, and instead an attack on a woman was, speaks volumes.

GamerGate was the natural extension of the internet's underbelly that continues to trick (primarily) young boys into a constant state of confusion and anger. Support for Vic is the multi-generational extension of that. These people do not care about Dragon Ball, they do not care about anime, they do not care about voice acting, etc.

It's the exact same playbook over and over and over. Do not be taken in by it, and do not be complicit in it.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
Shaddy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:44 pm

Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:21 pm
Gamergate was a movement created to promote better practices in gaming journalism.
At that time there were a bunch of companies paying people to give out good comments about their games/platforms and the deals were not fully disclosed.

One female developer slept with a journalist and the guy wrote an article talking well about her game.
People were pissed, started attacking the developer, she took down people's videos with copyright strikes.
At the same point, there was a documentary about female representation in gaming and people started attacking the person behind the documentary.

Since people were attacking people in favor of feminism, the whole movement was branded as being anti-feminist.

There is a lot more to this, but this is a very brief rundown.

That is all very wrong information. Especially this part:
Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:21 pm
One female developer slept with a journalist and the guy wrote an article talking well about her game.
They were dating, and he never wrote anything about her game nor ever talked about her while they were dating.

Listen up: Gamergate was a harassment campaign and anti-feminist hate mob from day one, that happened to (intentionally) lie about it's own appearance accumulate people who didn't know it was an anti-feminist hate mob. It was started by 4chan after Anita Sarkeesian did a kickstarter campaign saying she would talk about women's portrayal in video games. It was targeted harassment toward individuals in response to one feminist saying she was going to talk about video games. Not even doing it yet. The fact that you were personally caught by the "it's just ethics in games journalism" and "she slept with the journalist" lies is a testament to it's design. It was designed to feed lies to less-reactionary people and get them angry so that they add to the size of the harasser's hate mob and they can pretend it was a legitimate movement when it was always, always about stepping on women and minorities. Do not call it something it isn't. Do not spread the misinformation that it was anything good. Educate yourself, read up on the facts and don't excuse the support of harassers just because they said "well I'm not like them".

Here is a really good video series documenting the timeline of this issue and how people were drawn into the lie of it being about anything but anti-feminist wackjobs harassing people for saying that the games community might have some sexism in it (and completely confirming those claims in the process).
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

User avatar
XanatosVanBadass
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:46 pm

And of course the latest stuff with Vic is increasing the rumblings of a so called animegate. Of course that goes back to earlier stuff concerning Funi’s recent dubbing choices that have sparked outrage.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:50 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:26 pm
GamerGate was the natural extension of the internet's underbelly that continues to trick (primarily) young boys into a constant state of confusion and anger. Support for Vic is the multi-generational extension of that. These people do not care about Dragon Ball, they do not care about anime, they do not care about voice acting, etc.
So the support vic movement going around has more to do with keeping his victims quiet rather than clearing his name ? If that's the case then that will just make things even worse for him.
XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:46 pm
And of course the latest stuff with Vic is increasing the rumblings of a so called animegate. Of course that goes back to earlier stuff concerning Funi’s recent dubbing choices that have sparked outrage.
Animegate is similar to gamergate right ? in that the people who support it just want certain people and groups to be part of the industry and fandoms ? At least that's what I understand about the concepts from the comments above.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Akamay
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Akamay » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:04 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:44 pm
-snip-
Alright, thanks for fixing my mistake.
Most of what I gathered from it was from ex-gamergaters, so yeah.......not the best sources and it is my bad.
Still, I know that part of the people involved were interested in the ethics part of the movement.
I'll admit, I'm gullible, but if you point out what I got wrong I am not afraid of correcting my line of thinking.

Regardless of intention, it just messed up the whole talk about ethics in journalism in general and bringing the topic up will result in people talking about the harassment campaigns.

I just think it's a pity that you can't really talk about journalism on the internet being a mess without people saying it is another gamergate.

I mean, most of the stuff people on the Vic side mention how the Anime News Network article happened because of Marlzgurl's contact with people on the website. Given how there is some weird stuff that they put up every now and then, people can fall into the whole narrative that there is something shady going on behind the scenes.

User avatar
Shaddy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:17 pm

Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:04 pm
Still, I know that part of the people involved were interested in the ethics part of the movement.
That "part" doesn't exist. Any legitimate talk of "ethics" was still under the umbrella of communicating with and enabling people that were actually dangerous.
Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:04 pm
Regardless of intention, it just messed up the whole talk about ethics in journalism in general and bringing the topic up will result in people talking about the harassment campaigns.
Because that's all gamergate was.
Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:04 pm
I just think it's a pity that you can't really talk about journalism on the internet being a mess without people saying it is another gamergate.
Yes you can. You literally can. Unless you're masturbatorily waxing for the days when women "knew their place" and didn't ask for games to represent them equally, there is absolutely no issue talking about real issues with game journalists. How about the people that play 5 seconds of a game, fail to learn how it works, then compare it to dark souls? How about devs lying to news sites constantly and them just taking them at face value? How about that article exposing an unjust practice at multiple companies but that refused to actually name any because they rely on ad revenue from these companies?

I guarantee one hundred fucking percent that you can talk about these and endless other issues without being compared to the hate mob that was gamergate. If someone is comparing you to them...well you need to take a long and close look, either at them or yourself.
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

User avatar
Akamay
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Akamay » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:49 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:17 pm
Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:04 pm
Still, I know that part of the people involved were interested in the ethics part of the movement.
That "part" doesn't exist. Any legitimate talk of "ethics" was still under the umbrella of communicating with and enabling people that were actually dangerous.
Dunno, people like Totalbiscuit and a few others that advocate for customer's rights never really looked to be into the movement when it came to the harassing aspect of it, even cutting ties with the movement the moment it became known as this hate against women.
As for me mentioning not being able to talk about ethics, it's not really due to what I said being compared to gamergate. It was mostly conversations about ethics mentioning gamergate and then it completely derailing the conversation to how it was a harassment campaign.
Regardless of my impressions of Gamergate and what my thoughts on it are, the whole harassment campaign that resulted from it was still unacceptable. Nothing really justifies anything that was done to Zoe and Anita.

The main thing that has been going on with this KickVic campaign is that some of the people that want him gone are asking events to drop him as he could still be a treat to their guests. The people on Vic's side are trying to dig all the dirt that they can on anyone that claims to be a victim and mercilessly attack them.

The people outraged in both movements are calling the other side NPCs, SJWs, Feminazis, etc as a way to justify their actions. As if, somehow, the other side was "taking something away from them."

User avatar
Shaddy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:49 pm
Dunno, people like Totalbiscuit and a few others that advocate for customer's rights never really looked to be into the movement when it came to the harassing aspect of it, even cutting ties with the movement the moment it became known as this hate against women.
And I'm not acting like that's not true, but what it "became known as" is subjective, what it was originally engineered to be is absolute. I don't blame Totalbiscuit (necessarily, I know very little about the guy), but he didn't cut ties when it became about harassment, he cut ties when he learned it always had been.

And I've been the same way! I've said a couple times in this thread that in high school I was a cringeanarchy/tumblrinaction/"Jontron was tricked" fuckboy who didn't see the world for what it was and "the SJWs" were the thing I thought could bring it all down. I was a goddamned moron. But I grew up. Those subs I'd been visiting never changed, not that much at least, I just realized that the things they were saying were wrong. The same is true for gamergate. What it "became" was what it was designed to be from the start: a hate group capable of pulling unaware and/or misinformed people into itself to grow. "Ethics in game journalism" was just the lipstick it put on the misogynist pig.
Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:49 pm
As for me mentioning not being able to talk about ethics, it's not really due to what I said being compared to gamergate. It was mostly conversations about ethics mentioning gamergate and then it completely derailing the conversation to how it was a harassment campaign.
I just can't say I've really seen or heard of anything like that then? I see people talk about fucked up things in gaming news and reporting all the time and it only ever goes to gamergate once people start acting like bigoted cunts.
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

User avatar
XanatosVanBadass
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:12 pm

sintzu wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:50 pm
VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:26 pm
GamerGate was the natural extension of the internet's underbelly that continues to trick (primarily) young boys into a constant state of confusion and anger. Support for Vic is the multi-generational extension of that. These people do not care about Dragon Ball, they do not care about anime, they do not care about voice acting, etc.
So the support vic movement going around has more to do with keeping his victims quiet rather than clearing his name ? If that's the case then that will just make things even worse for him.
XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:46 pm
And of course the latest stuff with Vic is increasing the rumblings of a so called animegate. Of course that goes back to earlier stuff concerning Funi’s recent dubbing choices that have sparked outrage.
Animegate is similar to gamergate right ? in that the people who support it just want certain people and groups to be part of the industry and fandoms ? At least that's what I understand about the concepts from the comments above.
Mostly yes. Anime fans don’t like that aspects of their favorite shows (or even the shows themselves) as being “problematic”. There’s also earlier things such as FUNi changing dialogue in some of their shows to make it more politically correct for western audiences. Accusations they they’re trying to make anime “woke”. One thing I heard even claimed anime was supposed to be the last place to escape f****t culture (their words). Of course, there’s recent controversy about ill timed anime like Goblin Slayer and others that have strong alt right followings. And then this Vic business happened. . .

Sorry if this was a bit rambly. I’m sure I missed things, but this was all from the top of my head.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:20 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:12 pm
sintzu wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:50 pm
VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:26 pm
GamerGate was the natural extension of the internet's underbelly that continues to trick (primarily) young boys into a constant state of confusion and anger. Support for Vic is the multi-generational extension of that. These people do not care about Dragon Ball, they do not care about anime, they do not care about voice acting, etc.
So the support vic movement going around has more to do with keeping his victims quiet rather than clearing his name ? If that's the case then that will just make things even worse for him.
XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:46 pm
And of course the latest stuff with Vic is increasing the rumblings of a so called animegate. Of course that goes back to earlier stuff concerning Funi’s recent dubbing choices that have sparked outrage.
Animegate is similar to gamergate right ? in that the people who support it just want certain people and groups to be part of the industry and fandoms ? At least that's what I understand about the concepts from the comments above.
Mostly yes. Anime fans don’t like that aspects of their favorite shows (or even the shows themselves) as being “problematic”. There’s also earlier things such as FUNi changing dialogue in some of their shows to make it more politically correct for western audiences. Accusations they they’re trying to make anime “woke”. One thing I heard even claimed anime was supposed to be the last place to escape f****t culture (their words). Of course, there’s recent controversy about ill timed anime like Goblin Slayer and others that have strong alt right followings. And then this Vic business happened. . .

Sorry if this was a bit rambly. I’m sure I missed things, but this was all from the top of my head.
You'd think people would be happy that new fans are getting into anime as that can result in better products due to the increase in support for specific brand names (DB for example).
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Akamay
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Akamay » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:24 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:09 pm
Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:49 pm
Dunno, people like Totalbiscuit and a few others that advocate for customer's rights never really looked to be into the movement when it came to the harassing aspect of it, even cutting ties with the movement the moment it became known as this hate against women.
And I'm not acting like that's not true, but what it "became known as" is subjective, what it was originally engineered to be is absolute. I don't blame Totalbiscuit (necessarily, I know very little about the guy), but he didn't cut ties when it became about harassment, he cut ties when he learned it always had been.

And I've been the same way! I've said a couple times in this thread that in high school I was a cringeanarchy/tumblrinaction/"Jontron was tricked" fuckboy who didn't see the world for what it was and "the SJWs" were the thing I thought could bring it all down. I was a goddamned moron. But I grew up. Those subs I'd been visiting never changed, not that much at least, I just realized that the things they were saying were wrong. The same is true for gamergate. What it "became" was what it was designed to be from the start: a hate group capable of pulling unaware and/or misinformed people into itself to grow. "Ethics in game journalism" was just the lipstick it put on the misogynist pig.
Akamay wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:49 pm
As for me mentioning not being able to talk about ethics, it's not really due to what I said being compared to gamergate. It was mostly conversations about ethics mentioning gamergate and then it completely derailing the conversation to how it was a harassment campaign.
I just can't say I've really seen or heard of anything like that then? I see people talk about fucked up things in gaming news and reporting all the time and it only ever goes to gamergate once people start acting like bigoted cunts.
Fair enough.
sintzu wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:50 pm
VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:26 pm
GamerGate was the natural extension of the internet's underbelly that continues to trick (primarily) young boys into a constant state of confusion and anger. Support for Vic is the multi-generational extension of that. These people do not care about Dragon Ball, they do not care about anime, they do not care about voice acting, etc.
So the support vic movement going around has more to do with keeping his victims quiet rather than clearing his name ? If that's the case then that will just make things even worse for him.
Well, if Vic wanted his name cleared, it would also be smarter if he distanced himself from the anti-KickVic movement, as they have not been exactly great at staying out of trouble.

User avatar
XanatosVanBadass
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:31 pm

sintzu wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:20 pm
You'd think people would be happy that new fans are getting into anime as that can result in better products due to the increase in support for specific brand names (DB for example).
They don’t mind new fans. They just don’t want “woke” fans who will change the thing they like to make it less fucked up. Remember, part of anime’s initial appeal in the west from the START was how it could be super violent, sexual, and rapey.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:41 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:31 pm
Part of anime’s initial appeal in the west from the START was how it could be super violent, sexual, and rapey.
That's news to me. If that's what they see in anime then they've been wasting their time as the medium has so much more to offer.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
XanatosVanBadass
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:48 pm

sintzu wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:41 pm
XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:31 pm
Part of anime’s initial appeal in the west from the START was how it could be super violent, sexual, and rapey.
That's news to me. If that's what they see in anime then they've been wasting their time as the medium has so much more to offer.
Heh that’s why I emphasized from the start. I’m just saying much of the stuff in video stores back in the day were the violent, dark stuff you couldn’t see in American animation. Your Akira, your Vampire Hunter D, your Wicked City, Ninja Scroll, etc. We have much more variety now to be sure. I probably should have said “edgy” instead in fairness.

Locked