Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:30 pm

Bullza wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 am
So when Vegeta said he wasn't as strong as Goku before his Majin power up, was that because Vegeta just wasn't as strong as Goku in the same form or because Goku had Super Saiyan 2 but Vegeta didn't?

In other words did Babidi's power up make Vegeta stronger all around or did it just give him access to Super Saiyan 2?
The Daizenshuu states that Vegeta reached Ssj2 before the Buu arc. Apart from that, Vegeta transformed at will and acted like he had it all along. In terms of his power, Goku within the same form was stronger than him but Babidi closed that gap.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14129
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: Funky Town
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Kaboom » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:39 pm

Bullza wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 am
In other words did Babidi's power up make Vegeta stronger all around or did it just give him access to Super Saiyan 2?
Vegeta definitely already had Super Saiyan 2 before the Boo arc kicked off. There's a few hints to it in the story, and one or two guidebooks flat-out tell us that he and Goku both gained it through harsh training. All that Vegeta needed from Bobbidi was a boost in raw power so he could match Goku.
Bullza wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 am
Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:49 am
He never told that.
It was said in the anime I think.
Yeah, the anime added an extra line from Dabra where he boasted, "not even 4,000 Kiri could beat me."

As far as the original story goes, I don't think we're meant to take the Kiri readings all that seriously. The 800 and 3,000 figures used for Yakon and Goku are colloquial Japanese numbers for "a lot." The same way English speakers might exaggeratedly use "a hundred" or "a million" in non-literal ways.
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised
[thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
3DS FC: 1504 - 5800 - 6358


We Gotta Power >>>>> Cha-La Head Cha-La. Fight me.

A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:36 am

Btw, even if the 4000+ Kiri thing is anime only, it makes perfect sense with the manga too. Nothing really contradicts it
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:40 am



As far as the original story goes, I don't think we're meant to take the Kiri readings all that seriously. The 800 and 3,000 figures used for Yakon and Goku are colloquial Japanese numbers for "a lot." The same way English speakers might exaggeratedly use "a hundred" or "a million" in non-literal ways.
That makes no sense at all.
If it is like this for kiris why don't you think it IL like this even for normal power levels?
Toriyama gave us numbers for a reason, to scale the series. Saying "oh no, that just tanked lot" doesn't make any sense. These are not arbitrary numbers with no meaning
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:23 pm

So would it be correct to say that Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks were stronger than Piccolo during the Buu arc?

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 pm

Bullza wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:23 pm
So would it be correct to say that Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks were stronger than Piccolo during the Buu arc?
It can go either way.

Piccolo is definitely stronger than them by the U6 arc though.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:29 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 pm
Piccolo is definitely stronger than them by the U6 arc though.
Yeah it seems that way to me as well.

The Super manga shows Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks being able to hold their own against more than one Cell Jr at a time so I'd say they were stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta from the Cell Games anyway.

I'd say Piccolo (U6) > Goten and Trunks > Piccolo (Buu)

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:47 am

Bullza wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:23 pm
So would it be correct to say that Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks were stronger than Piccolo during the Buu arc?
Post rosat they are, the important thing is to not have them above piccolo in base
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4098
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:35 pm

Bullza wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:29 am
ZombieVito wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 pm
Piccolo is definitely stronger than them by the U6 arc though.
Yeah it seems that way to me as well.

The Super manga shows Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks being able to hold their own against more than one Cell Jr at a time so I'd say they were stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta from the Cell Games anyway.

I'd say Piccolo (U6) > Goten and Trunks > Piccolo (Buu)
Werent the juniors toying with them?

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:39 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:35 pm
Bullza wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:29 am
ZombieVito wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 pm
Piccolo is definitely stronger than them by the U6 arc though.
Yeah it seems that way to me as well.

The Super manga shows Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks being able to hold their own against more than one Cell Jr at a time so I'd say they were stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta from the Cell Games anyway.

I'd say Piccolo (U6) > Goten and Trunks > Piccolo (Buu)
Werent the juniors toying with them?
Nope ,both goten and trunks as ssjs in the manga of dbs were shown towns in advantage against cell jrs
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:05 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:35 pm
Werent the juniors toying with them?
In their expression yes.

Image

But you could argue that they were able to do that only because it was 3 and 4 on 1.

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:43 am

Bullza wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:05 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:35 pm
Werent the juniors toying with them?
In their expression yes.

Image

But you could argue that they were able to do that only because it was 3 and 4 on 1.
That already makes them a lot stronger than cell games trunks and vegeta
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
ahill1
Regular
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:52 am

What'd be your estimation for Vegeta's battle power post his last Zenkai on Namek? I think 2.4 millions fits well with Goku's official number, but if you want to scale your own way, I'd say Vegeta gets up to 3 millions or so.

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:50 am

ahill1 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:52 am
What'd be your estimation for Vegeta's battle power post his last Zenkai on Namek? I think 2.4 millions fits well with Goku's official number, but if you want to scale your own way, I'd say Vegeta gets up to 3 millions or so.
Vegeta has to be significantly weaker than freezer, who was on par/a bit stronger than base Goku.

Ya can say
Freezer 530
Freezer 2 1'060 full power 1,325
Freezer 3 2'650
Freezer 4 initial 3'180
Goku 3'000
Vegeta anywhere from 2'200 to 2'500 is fine
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 3066
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:07 am

p-hyvo wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:39 pm
both goten and trunks as ssjs in the manga of dbs were shown towns in advantage against cell jrs
I don’t remember this interaction. Which chapter is it?

User avatar
Grand Marshal 1
Regular
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:33 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:43 am

Major question concerning GT:

What indication do we have that Kid Goku in Base was above SSJ3 Buu Saga tier characters? Other than his fight with Uub, who ha been theorized to be equal to Kid Buu, Goku couldn't have gotten that strong in peaceful times.

Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta was stated to have surpassed Super Vegito. If so, Vegito is weaker than Baby Vegeta. Vegito was SSJ3 level. Many say that Baby Vegeta equals 8 Kid Gokus. Even so, Goku should be many times weaker. Assuming that Vegito has half the power of Baby Vegeta in Base, then Goku should be SSJ2 level by that logic. But not SSJ3 plus.

Besides, even King Kai had stated that any even 100 years of training on Earth would make up for 1 year of training in his world, where Goku didn't get infinitely stronger. Nowhere near 400 times or so. 15 years had passed, ok, but what could Goku possibly bring forth? He stayed on Earth. We would have known if he trained with King Kai all this time and the only reason we see massive power-ups in Super, in shorter periods of time, is because god ki, godly training and the hyperbolic time chamber are involved.

Even in the lookout, Goku trained with Uu outside from the chamber...
My posts will speak for myself! :)

User avatar
supersaiyangodgogeta
Regular
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:54 am

Base Goku was stronger than Rildo whom was stated to be superior to Boo.

User avatar
Grand Marshal 1
Regular
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:33 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:21 pm

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:54 am
Base Goku was stronger than Rildo whom was stated to be superior to Boo.
We do not know which Buu was used as a reference by Goku. Assuming that Pan would understand what Goku said, then it is probably Good Buu. When split, Good Buu probably had 40% of Innocent Buu's power. As such, he should be weaker than 2 SSJ2s from the Buu Saga.
My posts will speak for myself! :)

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:52 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:43 am
Major question concerning GT:

What indication do we have that Kid Goku in Base was above SSJ3 Buu Saga tier characters? Other than his fight with Uub, who ha been theorized to be equal to Kid Buu, Goku couldn't have gotten that strong in peaceful times.

Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta was stated to have surpassed Super Vegito. If so, Vegito is weaker than Baby Vegeta. Vegito was SSJ3 level. Many say that Baby Vegeta equals 8 Kid Gokus. Even so, Goku should be many times weaker. Assuming that Vegito has half the power of Baby Vegeta in Base, then Goku should be SSJ2 level by that logic. But not SSJ3 plus.

Besides, even King Kai had stated that any even 100 years of training on Earth would make up for 1 year of training in his world, where Goku didn't get infinitely stronger. Nowhere near 400 times or so. 15 years had passed, ok, but what could Goku possibly bring forth? He stayed on Earth. We would have known if he trained with King Kai all this time and the only reason we see massive power-ups in Super, in shorter periods of time, is because god ki, godly training and the hyperbolic time chamber are involved.

Even in the lookout, Goku trained with Uu outside from the chamber...
Much simpler :
Rildo being > buu while suppressed
Obviously, the buu Goku referees to is buuhan in his rage state, or else it wouldn't make sense.

Goku >trunks>base rildo >pan rage>base rildo > Buchan rage > sigma mega cannon

Going by this, base rildo fp >= super vegetto at least. Gt referrers the movies continuity, so super baby vegeta >ssj gogeta movie 12>>>>vegetto z

Plus, base vegetto isn't at all ssj tier but much, much more, and, by logic,if gt was canon to the main continuity,the vegetto took in exam would be the ssj and not the base one.
And uh, between z and gt there are 5 years, not 15 (10 from buu saga to gt)
The American dub added 5 years because why not, but in the Japanese there are just 5 years and not 10 between z and gt
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
Grand Marshal 1
Regular
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:33 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:31 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:52 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:43 am
Major question concerning GT:

What indication do we have that Kid Goku in Base was above SSJ3 Buu Saga tier characters? Other than his fight with Uub, who ha been theorized to be equal to Kid Buu, Goku couldn't have gotten that strong in peaceful times.

Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta was stated to have surpassed Super Vegito. If so, Vegito is weaker than Baby Vegeta. Vegito was SSJ3 level. Many say that Baby Vegeta equals 8 Kid Gokus. Even so, Goku should be many times weaker. Assuming that Vegito has half the power of Baby Vegeta in Base, then Goku should be SSJ2 level by that logic. But not SSJ3 plus.

Besides, even King Kai had stated that any even 100 years of training on Earth would make up for 1 year of training in his world, where Goku didn't get infinitely stronger. Nowhere near 400 times or so. 15 years had passed, ok, but what could Goku possibly bring forth? He stayed on Earth. We would have known if he trained with King Kai all this time and the only reason we see massive power-ups in Super, in shorter periods of time, is because god ki, godly training and the hyperbolic time chamber are involved.

Even in the lookout, Goku trained with Uu outside from the chamber...
Much simpler :
Rildo being > buu while suppressed
Obviously, the buu Goku referees to is buuhan in his rage state, or else it wouldn't make sense.

Goku >trunks>base rildo >pan rage>base rildo > Buchan rage > sigma mega cannon

Going by this, base rildo fp >= super vegetto at least. Gt referrers the movies continuity, so super baby vegeta >ssj gogeta movie 12>>>>vegetto z

Plus, base vegetto isn't at all ssj tier but much, much more, and, by logic,if gt was canon to the main continuity,the vegetto took in exam would be the ssj and not the base one.
And uh, between z and gt there are 5 years, not 15 (10 from buu saga to gt)
The American dub added 5 years because why not, but in the Japanese there are just 5 years and not 10 between z and gt
Even less years for Goku to train then...I can accept everything about GT, as in the end it came to be, but literally speaking, 10 years of Earth-only training (with especially the first years being Goku teaching Uub and only in the ending years him sparring with him) should never cause such a growth in power.
My posts will speak for myself! :)

Post Reply