"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

[DragonBallFan]

Spoiler:

Are they still using Yamamuro designs, ewwww

Um, why wouldn't they? It's not like they'd randomly switch to Shintani. Yamamuro was still the main character designer & animation director of the series when these episodes were produced, so they're gonna use the art made by him for their home releases, since they have to use artwork provided by Toei anyways & it's better to remain consistent with the product at hand than switch to better art just because it's newer. You might argue that the newer releases of Z use Shintani-style artwork, & you'd be right, but, again, those were done before the 4th Broly movie, so those don't count.

Speaking of, I wish the shit with Vic Mignogna didn't go down. Granted, they'll find a suitable voice double, but with this new version of Broly, I'd actually be looking forward to new appearances of the character voiced by Vic. A well, cie la vie. Vic fucked up & now he's screwed himself out of a steady pay check (just for clarification, though, I'm not in-league with the majority of the anti-Vic crowd, other evidence that he's done other things that are still dick moves on his part forced my hand in this decision). And that's all I'll say about that here because this shit gives me migraines.

I wish they would have just kept it under wraps, then let us know some details after the court case, things are just shitty at the moment. I've stopped following it and blocking those youtubers who cover it because they give me a headache.

About the designs, for DBZ kai they used yamamuro designs when his designs weren't used, same with the new promotional art for the old films, but anyway, hopefully we see less of it, even better, if it disappears.

[DragonBallFan]

Not sure what that even means?

I was actually kind of hoping he'd been recasted before I even knew about it when he was played by someone else in the trailer and I never really liked his Broly in the first place.

He was played by someone else in the trailer? Which one?

[DragonBallFan]

[Vic discussion that should be in the Vic thread]

Your feelings are valid, but I think this might be the wrong thread for it.

I know, your right, I'm going to stop now.

[Shaddy]

He was played by someone else in the trailer? Which one?

We're not sure who, but it definitely isn't Vic.

Also, for future reference, you should copy and paste quotes into a single post, rather than just making several seperate posts. Helps with clutter.

[DragonBallFan]

He was played by someone else in the trailer? Which one?

We're not sure who, but it definitely isn't Vic.

Also, for future reference, you should copy and paste quotes into a single post, rather than just making several seperate posts. Helps with clutter.

eh couldn't be bothered that time, i must have lost track of how many posts id made.

[Kataphrut]

It's a treat getting to rewatch good episodes in the dub. As much as I love Ryusei Nakao, I don't think it was a good idea to have him voice Frost, and this episode proves why. Greg Ayres gave a terrific performance as Frost that didn't feel like a derivative of Freeza the way it did when Nakao did it, and as it no doubt would have felt if Daman Mills or Chris Ayres had done it. On a similar note, I like what little we got of Dyspo in this episode. He actually feels like he has an identity of his own in the dub, as opposed to in the Japanese where they even admitted behind-the-scenes that they just got Bin Shimada to squawk into a microphone and went from there.

Only downside is making Vegeta's tone unnecessarily mean when he told Roshi to step out of the ring at the end. They made him a dick for most of this arc in the original too, but the scene in Japanese at least had a bit of respectful softness to it. Here, he's just harsh. "Eat a senzu bean before you croak" isn't the best way to end a mini-arc about an old master showing he still had some fight in him.

[AzuraRacon]

About the designs, for DBZ kai they used yamamuro designs when his designs weren't used, same with the new promotional art for the old films, but anyway, hopefully we see less of it, even better, if it disappears.

Really kinda harsh

There’s nothing really inherently bad about his designs, and even in animation they can be done well (Battle of Gods and Res F look fantastic for the most part)

I really don’t get where all this hate for his design work is coming from

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I really don’t get where all this hate for his design work is coming from

His designs are fantastic for the most part, but they are not the best in motion. Shintani's work is far superior in that regard.

[Shaddy]

They're not animation-friendly, but they're not pleasing to look at, which is the real problem.

They flatten the facial features into very boxy-looking eyes and big hole-in-face noses. Their hair is incredibly rigid, as is most of their musculature and the folds in their clothing, which leads to a lot of really stiff poses and movement. Rarely do you see Yamamuro's Goku moving very fast with his hair or clothes moving in the wind, they tend to just magically stay put, like they're pumped full of starch or something. Their proportions are kind of messed-up too, and they add detail in the wrong places with too many lines on the muscles and clothes, and worst of all the shiny highlights on everything.

All these things are what add up to the complaint that Yamamuro's designs look like oiled-up action figures, and specific characters have their own issues. It's not just related to the animation. His 90s designs weren't that much less-detailed, they were just better balanced. The reason Shintani's designs are good isn't just because they're good for animation, it's because they're just really damn well-crafted. They hit a perfect balance between Toriyama in the 90s and Toriyama now, and they can transition from soft to intense, detailed to simplistic, comedic to series, so easily. There's a subtle expression in every drawing that Yamamuro used to have but has been sanded down to a few stock drawings almost every single time, and has defined the look of Dragon Ball for so long that people unfortunately got way too used to it. I know I did.

In Super specifically, a lot of Toriyama's characters suffer way less, though. This weirdly only seems to apply to characters like Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo etc. Newer characters, like Whis, Beerus, most of Tori's ToP fighters and Deities, even Future Trunks and Zamasu, don't have these problems, or if they do they're understated. It's pretty suspected this is because Yamamuro was previously adapting Toriyama's drawings to his style, whereas now he just kind of...traces over them, I guess.

Which isn't really that bad necessarily, spares them from his unfortunate traits, but creates a huge weird jarring look in some cases. Caulifla, Cabba and Kale are supposed to be on similar levels to Goku and Vegeta, or at least Gohan or Future Trunks, etcetera. But they don't look like the buff demigods we expect. And that's cause Yamamuro didn't make them that way, or rather, failed to account that Goku and his crew should look more like them. I think in general people got so used to the sight of Super Saiyan Whatever that they just took the idea of Goku being jacked all the damn time as normal, even though he's supposed to be pretty lean in his base form, which you can see throughout the entire manga.

EDIT: jesus fuck I typed this whole stupid thing and it's not even in a design-focused thread.

[DragonBallFan]

They're not animation-friendly, but they're not pleasing to look at, which is the real problem.

They flatten the facial features into very boxy-looking eyes and big hole-in-face noses. Their hair is incredibly rigid, as is most of their musculature and the folds in their clothing, which leads to a lot of really stiff poses and movement. Rarely do you see Yamamuro's Goku moving very fast with his hair or clothes moving in the wind, they tend to just magically stay put, like they're pumped full of starch or something. Their proportions are kind of messed-up too, and they add detail in the wrong places with too many lines on the muscles and clothes, and worst of all the shiny highlights on everything.

All these things are what add up to the complaint that Yamamuro's designs look like oiled-up action figures, and specific characters have their own issues. It's not just related to the animation. His 90s designs weren't that much less-detailed, they were just better balanced. The reason Shintani's designs are good isn't just because they're good for animation, it's because they're just really damn well-crafted. They hit a perfect balance between Toriyama in the 90s and Toriyama now, and they can transition from soft to intense, detailed to simplistic, comedic to series, so easily. There's a subtle expression in every drawing that Yamamuro used to have but has been sanded down to a few stock drawings almost every single time, and has defined the look of Dragon Ball for so long that people unfortunately got way too used to it. I know I did.

In Super specifically, a lot of Toriyama's characters suffer way less, though. This weirdly only seems to apply to characters like Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo etc. Newer characters, like Whis, Beerus, most of Tori's ToP fighters and Deities, even Future Trunks and Zamasu, don't have these problems, or if they do they're understated. It's pretty suspected this is because Yamamuro was previously adapting Toriyama's drawings to his style, whereas now he just kind of...traces over them, I guess.

Which isn't really that bad necessarily, spares them from his unfortunate traits, but creates a huge weird jarring look in some cases. Caulifla, Cabba and Kale are supposed to be on similar levels to Goku and Vegeta, or at least Gohan or Future Trunks, etcetera. But they don't look like the buff demigods we expect. And that's cause Yamamuro didn't make them that way, or rather, failed to account that Goku and his crew should look more like them. I think in general people got so used to the sight of Super Saiyan Whatever that they just took the idea of Goku being jacked all the damn time as normal, even though he's supposed to be pretty lean in his base form, which you can see throughout the entire manga.

EDIT: jesus fuck I typed this whole stupid thing and it's not even in a design-focused thread.

Amen.

I didn't know Yamamuro traced over art. He's also very arrogant, as seen with him going over a good animators scenes in DBZ RF.

Some people think it's stupid for Goku to be lean, but those are mostly people who have yet to see Dragon Ball for what it is, understand it and Akira Toriyama. Even in games, they have messed up Goku and Vegeta's muscle mass, making them way to big in God and SSGSS. Not to mention that horrible Yamamuro banana hair is also still in most games, which means we don't see any change in SSJ2 for Goku or Adult(Teen) Gohan, because the hair is stiff and way too spiky in regular SSJ, that they can't change anything in SSJ2.

I stopped playing legends, but I do know they still use Yamamuro's shitty art as reference for character designs.

A good example of SSJ2 Goku models being done right was Budokai 3, Ultimate Tenkaichi, and Battle of Z.

I also hope they follow the manga from now on, I'm sick of having two different canons and having no clue whats happening for the most part.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I also hope they follow the manga from now on, I'm sick of having two different canons and having no clue whats happening for the most part.

That's impossible. A weekly tv show cannot follow a monthly manga. And if the production time for the new series is accurate than the pre production for the new series started well before Toyotaro's Moro arc started, literally making it impossible to follow. They may take some ideas and a few panels like they did at the beginning of DBS but that's all one should expect.

[DragonBallFan]

I also hope they follow the manga from now on, I'm sick of having two different canons and having no clue whats happening for the most part.

That's impossible. A weekly tv show cannot follow a monthly manga. And if the production time for the new series is accurate than the pre production for the new series started well before Toyotaro's Moro arc started, literally making it impossible to follow. They may take some ideas and a few panels like they did at the beginning of DBS but that's all one should expect.

I know, it's impossible, honestly, I miss Toriyama. Though I must that pressure some of them are/were under to put out 15 pages a week is abuse.

[superfan2024]

I also hope they follow the manga from now on, I'm sick of having two different canons and having no clue whats happening for the most part.

That's impossible. A weekly tv show cannot follow a monthly manga. And if the production time for the new series is accurate than the pre production for the new series started well before Toyotaro's Moro arc started, literally making it impossible to follow. They may take some ideas and a few panels like they did at the beginning of DBS but that's all one should expect.

What if we got a 14-episode Broly re-telling and addition to like 10-15 filler episodes before heading into Moro?

[Shaddy]

Would you waste the entire first 29 episodes of your show padding for time to get on-pace with a boring-ass story from a manga most of your viewers aren't even reading, for a single arc, only to go back to what you were doing for the last 131 episodes?

[SaiyanTarzan]

Would you waste the entire first 29 episodes of your show padding for time to get on-pace with a boring-ass story from a manga most of your viewers aren't even reading, for a single arc, only to go back to what you were doing for the last 131 episodes?

This is why I believe we're not getting a new tv series yet and that what they're really working on is a new movie because this arc in the manga is really feeling like filler until we see Toriyama's next work which I feel is probably a script for the next movie.

[Kinokima]

Would you waste the entire first 29 episodes of your show padding for time to get on-pace with a boring-ass story from a manga most of your viewers aren't even reading, for a single arc, only to go back to what you were doing for the last 131 episodes?

Why are you saying most people don’t read the manga. There is absolutely no indication of that.

It sells well in Japan and despite being able to basically read it for free in the US it’s a top seller on Amazon. So I would say people are reading it.


And I know opinions differ but personally I am really enjoying this arc.

That being said I also agree padding out the show with a lot of filler isn’t a good idea. I could see them doing a retelling of Broly (as much as I hope they don’t) and I actually wouldn’t mind some slice of life filler. But I know that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.

[TRIZACK]

Might be my ears playing tricks on me but it sounds like Chris Ayres is back as Freeza in tonights episode.

[AzuraRacon]

Either mills got REALLY good or this is Ayers

Edit: just checked Twitter and it is in fact Ayers

Apparently not only is he retroactively recording for the home release but he will be doing Frieza going forward as well

[Shaddy]

Why are you saying most people don’t read the manga. There is absolutely no indication of that.

It sells well in Japan and despite being able to basically read it for free in the US it’s a top seller on Amazon. So I would say people are reading it.


And I know opinions differ but personally I am really enjoying this arc.

That being said I also agree padding out the show with a lot of filler isn’t a good idea. I could see them doing a retelling of Broly (as much as I hope they don’t) and I actually wouldn’t mind some slice of life filler. But I know that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.

I said most of the viewers, there are significantly more people watching the show than reading the manga, that's all I was saying. From the point of view of the people making big-picture decisions for the franchise, it's less profitable and therefore less likely to be influential since Toriyama is an authority on both.

As for Broly, I really just want the new show to get off to a running start, and moving backwards isn't my idea of that. Obviously we're gonna get slice-of-life episodes, it takes time to work into new arcs and Super's in-between episodes are great, but the contrast between the start of the first run and the second one should be as accentuated as possible, and a big part of that is material we haven't seen anywhere else.

[HeroR]

I also hope they follow the manga from now on, I'm sick of having two different canons and having no clue whats happening for the most part.

That's impossible. A weekly tv show cannot follow a monthly manga. And if the production time for the new series is accurate than the pre production for the new series started well before Toyotaro's Moro arc started, literally making it impossible to follow. They may take some ideas and a few panels like they did at the beginning of DBS but that's all one should expect.

That's what Boruto does, actually.