Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

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90sDBZ
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Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri May 03, 2019 4:23 pm

I stumbled across this video covering the early history of DBZ on Cartoon Network UK back when it first blew up here and became huge. It also provides specific numbers for the ratings for the various sagas. Skip to 3 minutes to hear about the part with the ratings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjuBcdP-DHU

What I find interesting about this is that it debunks the old rumour about the show losing ratings when we switched to the inhouse Funimation dub. The chart in the video clearly shows the Frieza saga as having higher than ever ratings at the time of its debut.

For years I've seen fans spread the rumour that the inhouse cast caused ratings to drop, which apparently lead to the creation of the Westwood dub. I've always had a hard time believing that, as I followed the CN UK broadcast back in 2000, and the Frieza saga in particular would get lots of marathons, and would even get dedicated promos years later. By the time the Westwood dub came about in April 2001, I had already watched the Goku vs Frieza fight several times over.

From looking at the charts the obvious trend is the biggest story arcs getting the best ratings. In other words I don't think the dub changes made much of a difference, and the rumours were largely overblown at best.

The video also goes on to show some cool promos from back in the day.

Another thing that the video notes is DBZ predating our Toonami block on CN UK. I've always felt the whole reason we got the Toonami block here is because of the popularity of Z.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri May 03, 2019 6:05 pm

In my experience neither I, nor anyone I knew who watched Dragon Ball Z as a kid cared whether or not it was the Ocean cast or Funimation. Both were very much well liked and it was all Dragon Ball at the end of the day.

I don't give much thought to rumours about which dub had better ratings as every argument I've heard on both sides has been made with some bias for the individual's preferred cast as there is a lot of passion for each.

The reasons for the creation of the Westwood dub from what we know had nothing to do with ratings and all to do with business decisions to minimize licensing costs as Funimation's dub didn't come cheap.
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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by Robo4900 » Fri May 03, 2019 7:18 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:23 pm
For years I've seen fans spread the rumour that the inhouse cast caused ratings to drop, which apparently lead to the creation of the Westwood dub. I've always had a hard time believing that, as I followed the CN UK broadcast back in 2000, and the Frieza saga in particular would get lots of marathons, and would even get dedicated promos years later. By the time the Westwood dub came about in April 2001, I had already watched the Goku vs Frieza fight several times over.
You're misinformed, friend.

The commonly-spread information is that when they switched back to in-house Funi for a couple of episodes (possibly a bit more?) in the Fusion saga, the ratings were lower than the Ocean-dubbed airings were.

I've never seen confirmation either way, honestly.
Way I understand it is ratings for Dragon Ball were always very high either way.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:18 pm
90sDBZ wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:23 pm
For years I've seen fans spread the rumour that the inhouse cast caused ratings to drop, which apparently lead to the creation of the Westwood dub. I've always had a hard time believing that, as I followed the CN UK broadcast back in 2000, and the Frieza saga in particular would get lots of marathons, and would even get dedicated promos years later. By the time the Westwood dub came about in April 2001, I had already watched the Goku vs Frieza fight several times over.
You're misinformed, friend.

The commonly-spread information is that when they switched back to in-house Funi for a couple of episodes (possibly a bit more?) in the Fusion saga, the ratings were lower than the Ocean-dubbed airings were.

I've never seen confirmation either way, honestly.
Way I understand it is ratings for Dragon Ball were always very high either way.
To be honest I've seen plenty of claims for both the Fusion saga CNX situation and the initial dub switch on Cartoon Network, although that's just my own experience. And not that it matters but the Fusion saga switch was for the full saga, and not just a couple of random episodes, and even then there was the context of those episodes premiering on a brand new channel outside the kids section.

But yes the show was a hit in the UK from start to finish, which makes it a shame that no network will pick up Super.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by Robo4900 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:33 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am
And not that it matters but the Fusion saga switch was for the full saga, and not just a couple of random episodes, and even then there was the context of those episodes premiering on a brand new channel outside the kids section.
I've seen people swear up and down in both directions: Either it was the whole saga, or just the first two episodes.

Never seen confirmation on this, though.
90sDBZ wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am
But yes the show was a hit in the UK from start to finish, which makes it a shame that no network will pick up Super.
Well, I'd rather they pick up Ocean Kai. :D

The Ocean situation aside, tbh Kai is a much, much, much better thing to start with. We haven't had Dragon Ball airing in the UK in 13 years, so assuming it hit a kids' network, they'd really be better off not skipping straight to the hot new thing. Kai would be much better to start with, then presumably once that's reached its end, it'll lead to TFC, then Super.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat May 04, 2019 3:49 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:33 pm
90sDBZ wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am
And not that it matters but the Fusion saga switch was for the full saga, and not just a couple of random episodes, and even then there was the context of those episodes premiering on a brand new channel outside the kids section.
I've seen people swear up and down in both directions: Either it was the whole saga, or just the first two episodes.

Never seen confirmation on this, though.
90sDBZ wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am
But yes the show was a hit in the UK from start to finish, which makes it a shame that no network will pick up Super.
Well, I'd rather they pick up Ocean Kai. :D

The Ocean situation aside, tbh Kai is a much, much, much better thing to start with. We haven't had Dragon Ball airing in the UK in 13 years, so assuming it hit a kids' network, they'd really be better off not skipping straight to the hot new thing. Kai would be much better to start with, then presumably once that's reached its end, it'll lead to TFC, then Super.
I watched the entire Funi Fusion saga on CNX at the time, twice all the way through as a matter of fact. Others must have either misremembered, or tuned into it later on right before the switch back to Westwood. I can't provide proof beyond a couple of promos, so I'll just give you my word on it.

13 years? Funi Kai was on Kix until late 2015, and BoG and RF have aired on Sky Movies since then. It would be nice for Ocean Kai to see the light of day if the Wow deal falls through though.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sat May 04, 2019 4:17 pm

With Netflix upgrading their audio quality, Netflix would be a good home for Ocean Kai. It would perhaps be a Netflix UK/CA exclusive.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat May 04, 2019 4:49 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am
And not that it matters but the Fusion saga switch was for the full saga, and not just a couple of random episodes, and even then there was the context of those episodes premiering on a brand new channel outside the kids section.
Most definitely. The fact anyone without a Sky box wouldn't have had CNX would inevitably have an effect on the Fusion saga's initial debut regardless of the dub used. If the Ocean version was the main product and Funimation was the alternate dub the switch would have likewise skewed ratings in Funi's favour. From what I've seen both casts were hugely popular when given adequate exposure.
90sDBZ wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am
But yes the show was a hit in the UK from start to finish, which makes it a shame that no network will pick up Super.
Indeed. I almost never watch broadcast TV, I made an exception for Kai on Kix to support Dragon Ball and I will do the same if the series ever returns on another local channel, especially if its Ocean Kai (unlikely to air outside Canada but I'd like to help that dub at least recoup some of what it cost to produce).
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- any of the Bridge Ent DVDs containing the Big Green dubs

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sat May 04, 2019 6:09 pm

Y'all can't be too surprised that anime on British TV is kind of a flop because let's be honest, the TV License is a con which many believe that if you own a TV, Monitor, Smartphone, Tablet or whatever capable of watching TV then you're forced to pay up. Not the case.

Here's what it really is about:
You need to be covered by a TV Licence to

watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service
download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer.
Source: TV Licensing

If people are fucking illiterate, fine, but otherwise that's clear as day.

Buying anime on BD/DVD, streaming it (legally or not) are two ways much more convenient than be concerned when it's going to air. Well, this sort of applies to practically any show or movie.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by Danfun64 » Sat May 04, 2019 7:19 pm

I'm glad there is no goddamn television license in the US. There's free to air and then there's cable/satellite/whatever. The UK television license is more restrictive than buying cable or satellite in the US, and it takes up the free to air slot, so to watch satellite channels in the UK you have to pay on top of the broadcast license.
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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by The Time Traveller » Sat May 04, 2019 10:03 pm

I could have sworn CNX became a channel just as the Android Saga started, I remember I had Cartoon Network up to Trunks killing Freeza and then it moved to the new CNX and I had to go to a neighbour's house to watch it for a week until we got it.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat May 04, 2019 10:16 pm

Cure Dragon Joins the fight! I mean discussion.

I'm sad that BARB no longer reports individual shows but rather the maximum audiences that watch each channel. Of all the channels I would choose to air DBZKai TFC AND DBS I would pick Pop. That's the highest rated kids channel that is willing to air action stuff like anime.


https://www.barb.co.uk/viewing-data/wee ... g-summary/
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It's ill-fitting for me. Dragon Ball is not a bedtime story. And "laid-back old man" is not how I would describe Yanami's narrator. To me he sounds like the kind of uncle that shows up to the birthday party with loads of fruit punch soda and stuffs himself with pizza and ice cream, or takes you out on his boat at the lake in the summer and goes skinny dipping or something.
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19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun May 05, 2019 7:47 am

The Time Traveller wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:03 pm
I could have sworn CNX became a channel just as the Android Saga started, I remember I had Cartoon Network up to Trunks killing Freeza and then it moved to the new CNX and I had to go to a neighbour's house to watch it for a week until we got it.
It sounds like you missed out on a bit in between. Back in late 2000 Cartoon Network would always get as far as Trunks giving Goku the heart virus and then go back to episode 1, and was like that for several months. I remember being disappointed every time it would jump back, as I wanted to see what happened next. Then in April 2001 Cartoon Network finally showed the Android saga, which also marked the start of the Westwood dub.

The series continued on Cartoon Network until Summer 2002, where it got up to Buu's puppy being shot. Then we had another long wait for episodes until this CNX promo aired along with a bunch of others;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4b6jG-pmY

CNX was on Sky Channel 244 which was in the entertainment section rather than the kids section. The Fusion saga aired from October 2002, and was surprisingly in Funimation's dub once more. It completed at least 2 full runs of the saga before switching back to Ocean, so would have been in circulation over a month at least, being 22 episodes in total.

CNX took us to the end of Z, and also aired Blue Water GT right after, but the channel was unfortunately short lived as it was re-branded as Toonami UK after only 9 months on the air. It was an awesome channel while it lasted though, airing old martial arts films at night, in addition to many shows that previously aired on the CN UK Toonami block. And it had great promos.

I guess the change to Toonami was better for some though, as many have said they didn't have access to CNX, and it also put the DB shows back in the kids section which made for better exposure.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by LostTimeLord » Sun May 05, 2019 8:54 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:16 pm
BARB no longer reports individual shows but rather the maximum audiences that watch each channel.
BARB still reports the top 10-30 programs, but it's now under Four Screen Dashboard: https://www.barb.co.uk/viewing-data/fou ... dashboard/.

From the pre-four screen archive (https://www.barb.co.uk/viewing-data/arc ... wing-data/) we can see that in 2013 Kai's largest audience was 57,000 on January 13 (3rd highest of the week). Kai was also the week's most watched program five times with up to 43,000 viewers.

Kix has since been added to Freeview and rebranded 'Pop Max', with its most watched program in March 2019 being 'Nate is Late' with 66,200 and the most watched anime being Pokémon with 64,900. Interestingly, both Funimation and the Pop channels are now owned by Sony Pictures Television.

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Re: Some interesting info regarding the UK ratings of Z and the different dubs

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sun May 05, 2019 3:07 pm

Good thing that "free" TV still gets some anime for whomever watches it.

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