Statements about the Shadow Dragons in GT Perfect Files? States they will destroy the galaxy or universe?

[ruler9871]

I agree. Omega is low-universal. Now if that is his minimum or maximum is up to debate, but he isn't just galaxy level for sure.

Speaking of the Shadow Dragons, how much stronger do you think that their Xeno variants are? Should we treat them as powered-up forms, or as entirely different characters?

Because, apparently they, too, can further use their Super forms on top of what power they already possess.

Omega was stated to only be able to destroy the Universe through chain-reaction (like Buuhan). Neither he nor even GT Gogeta were stated nor implied to be able to one-shot a Universe, like how BoG Goku & Suppressed Beerus could in their clash.

goku nor beerus "one shotted" the universe when they fought. what do you mean?

They were stated to be able to one-shot all of U7 with their clashes by Old Kai.

[Rakurai]

I agree. Omega is low-universal. Now if that is his minimum or maximum is up to debate, but he isn't just galaxy level for sure.

Speaking of the Shadow Dragons, how much stronger do you think that their Xeno variants are? Should we treat them as powered-up forms, or as entirely different characters?

Because, apparently they, too, can further use their Super forms on top of what power they already possess.

They are stronger but still not on par with the Time Patrol, who are definitely stronger than their GT counterparts. Demon form Xeno Super Yi Xing Long was defeated by SSJ3 XGohanks. SSJ XGogeta is enough to defeat Super Yi Xing Long (GT). Although SSJ4 GT Gogeta is still a powerhouse (i.e. he was powerful enough to be chased after Fin as absorption material, plus Fin is considered powerful by the Time Patrol in his own right) relative to the Time Patrol.

Note that the SSJ4 Xeno duo are on par if not stronger than the SSB duo based on the events of the Prison Planet.

As for the topic of this thread. Galaxy and universe are synonymous during the time of GT, because they were used interchangeably and only implying destruction on a large scale. In fact Universe 7 was made up of only 4 galaxies in the classic DBZ/GT era. There is no point in trying to differentiate between galaxy and universe in this era, and certainly there is no point in trying to classify destructive feats as powerscaling.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Soo,we ha've both of them in italy, but if you don't know italian it's troublesome.
I can anyway translate it to you, but it tells the same things you've posted in the link.
Btw, Japanese tend to use the same word to say world, galaxy and universe. So yeah, galaxy is a viable translation, but omega shenron is at least low universal by stated feats

I agree. Omega is low-universal. Now if that is his minimum or maximum is up to debate, but he isn't just galaxy level for sure.

Speaking of the Shadow Dragons, how much stronger do you think that their Xeno variants are? Should we treat them as powered-up forms, or as entirely different characters?

Because, apparently they, too, can further use their Super forms on top of what power they already possess.

Omega was stated to only be able to destroy the Universe through chain-reaction (like Buuhan). Neither he nor even GT Gogeta were stated nor implied to be able to one-shot a Universe, like how BoG Goku & Suppressed Beerus could in their clash.

I actually support the idea of Omega Shenron being around 80% (at max) of Super Saiyan God Goku's power. Not pure universal, but still a strong opponent who after Z would seem impossible to defeat in the BoG saga (as SSJG is massively stronger than SSJ3 and Buu).

Demon form Xeno Super Yi Xing Long was defeated by SSJ3 XGohanks.

So, basically, the strongest Shadow Dragon, in his super form which is ten times stronger, from an alternate timeline where he is even more powerful, with a new form that multiplies his said strength by many times, required a SSJ3 Fusion to be defeated?

Pretty sure I had sen the fight somewhere, but it kinda makes you wonder how much powerful the Xeno variants are. I really don't get why they are so strong without god ki and without experiencing anything groundbreakingly different than the main timeline characters.

[p-hyvo]

I agree. Omega is low-universal. Now if that is his minimum or maximum is up to debate, but he isn't just galaxy level for sure.

Speaking of the Shadow Dragons, how much stronger do you think that their Xeno variants are? Should we treat them as powered-up forms, or as entirely different characters?

Because, apparently they, too, can further use their Super forms on top of what power they already possess.

Omega was stated to only be able to destroy the Universe through chain-reaction (like Buuhan). Neither he nor even GT Gogeta were stated nor implied to be able to one-shot a Universe, like how BoG Goku & Suppressed Beerus could in their clash.

I actually support the idea of Omega Shenron being around 80% (at max) of Super Saiyan God Goku's power. Not pure universal, but still a strong opponent who after Z would seem impossible to defeat in the BoG saga (as SSJG is massively stronger than SSJ3 and Buu).

Demon form Xeno Super Yi Xing Long was defeated by SSJ3 XGohanks.

So, basically, the strongest Shadow Dragon, in his super form which is ten times stronger, from an alternate timeline where he is even more powerful, with a new form that multiplies his said strength by many times, required a SSJ3 Fusion to be defeated?

Pretty sure I had sen the fight somewhere, but it kinda makes you wonder how much powerful the Xeno variants are. I really don't get why they are so strong without god ki and without experiencing anything groundbreakingly different than the main timeline characters.

Xeno Goku has God ki in fact, he just doesn't have mastery on it.
Plus, the xeno timeline is different because it's like z+films>gt, and xeno Goku had turned god against broly for whatever reason.
Xeno characters do have a lot of hax that makes them op, so op they would beat anyone from the canon timeline, even zeno and daishinkan (in fact, the daishinkan that trained ccl Goku in dbh isn't the same daishinkan from dbs just for the fact that he scales from Goku ccl, who scales from xeno Goku, who via hax is easily stronger than zeno from dbs)

[Polyphase Avatron]

Omega was stated to only be able to destroy the Universe through chain-reaction (like Buuhan). Neither he nor even GT Gogeta were stated nor implied to be able to one-shot a Universe, like how BoG Goku & Suppressed Beerus could in their clash.

I actually support the idea of Omega Shenron being around 80% (at max) of Super Saiyan God Goku's power. Not pure universal, but still a strong opponent who after Z would seem impossible to defeat in the BoG saga (as SSJG is massively stronger than SSJ3 and Buu).

Demon form Xeno Super Yi Xing Long was defeated by SSJ3 XGohanks.

So, basically, the strongest Shadow Dragon, in his super form which is ten times stronger, from an alternate timeline where he is even more powerful, with a new form that multiplies his said strength by many times, required a SSJ3 Fusion to be defeated?

Pretty sure I had sen the fight somewhere, but it kinda makes you wonder how much powerful the Xeno variants are. I really don't get why they are so strong without god ki and without experiencing anything groundbreakingly different than the main timeline characters.

Xeno Goku has God ki in fact, he just doesn't have mastery on it.
Plus, the xeno timeline is different because it's like z+films>gt, and xeno Goku had turned god against broly for whatever reason.
Xeno characters do have a lot of hax that makes them op, so op they would beat anyone from the canon timeline, even zeno and daishinkan (in fact, the daishinkan that trained ccl Goku in dbh isn't the same daishinkan from dbs just for the fact that he scales from Goku ccl, who scales from xeno Goku, who via hax is easily stronger than zeno from dbs)

I find this kind of scaling to be very dubious.

[Rakurai]

Omega was stated to only be able to destroy the Universe through chain-reaction (like Buuhan). Neither he nor even GT Gogeta were stated nor implied to be able to one-shot a Universe, like how BoG Goku & Suppressed Beerus could in their clash.

I actually support the idea of Omega Shenron being around 80% (at max) of Super Saiyan God Goku's power. Not pure universal, but still a strong opponent who after Z would seem impossible to defeat in the BoG saga (as SSJG is massively stronger than SSJ3 and Buu).

Demon form Xeno Super Yi Xing Long was defeated by SSJ3 XGohanks.

So, basically, the strongest Shadow Dragon, in his super form which is ten times stronger, from an alternate timeline where he is even more powerful, with a new form that multiplies his said strength by many times, required a SSJ3 Fusion to be defeated?

Pretty sure I had sen the fight somewhere, but it kinda makes you wonder how much powerful the Xeno variants are. I really don't get why they are so strong without god ki and without experiencing anything groundbreakingly different than the main timeline characters.

There's nothing that implies Demigra's magic 'multiplies his strength by many times.' We don't know how much stronger he is in that regard. Demigra's dark magic for all we know could've only increased his strength by 1.05x. All we know is that Demon form Xeno Super Yi Xing Long is no match for SSJ3 XGohanks.

God ki is overrated. Even in the main Super canon (both manga and anime), god ki becomes superseded by other non-god characters. I don't know where you got these arbitrary percentages for Super Yi Xing Long but based on SDBH scaling, which is the closest we have to comparing GT and Super characters in some powerscale, Super Yi Xing Long (GT) can likely take on and defeat BoG SSG Goku: SSJ XGogeta was required to defeat Super Yi Xing Long (GT), and SSJ Gogeta in DBS matches SSJ Broly who easily rattles SSB Goku and Vegeta, together (and therefore babyshakes SSG Goku and Vegeta, together).

Xeno Goku has God ki in fact, he just doesn't have mastery on it.
Plus, the xeno timeline is different because it's like z+films>gt, and xeno Goku had turned god against broly for whatever reason.
Xeno characters do have a lot of hax that makes them op, so op they would beat anyone from the canon timeline, even zeno and daishinkan (in fact, the daishinkan that trained ccl Goku in dbh isn't the same daishinkan from dbs just for the fact that he scales from Goku ccl, who scales from xeno Goku, who via hax is easily stronger than zeno from dbs)

There's a whole lot of wrong with this post.

The Xeno Goku we are talking about, the one from SDBH, does not have god ki. That's the Xeno Goku from DBH: Ultimate Mission X who is based on a DBS timeline, where he knows Beerus, Whis, Champa, Vados, and Gowasu. The Xeno Goku from SDBH comes from a timeline that more closely resembles classic DB (DBZ/GT). These are two different incarnations of Xeno Goku, but the Xeno Goku from SDBH is the main canonical one.

In no DBH-related media does Xeno Goku go SSG or god against Broly. That's just false.

Nothing implies that the Grand Priest trained CC Goku in SDBH. Not the anime, not the manga, and certainly not the arcade. In fact, all that was said was that he helped Goku recover. That's it.

SSJ4 Xeno Goku is canonically around the level of post-ToP SSB Goku, so please stop trying to inflate their powers. It's wrong and misleading.

[Nokra]

Omega was stated to only be able to destroy the Universe through chain-reaction (like Buuhan). Neither he nor even GT Gogeta were stated nor implied to be able to one-shot a Universe, like how BoG Goku & Suppressed Beerus could in their clash.

goku nor beerus "one shotted" the universe when they fought. what do you mean?

They were stated to be able to one-shot all of U7 with their clashes by Old Kai.

The fact that they clashed multiple times means that they couldn't "one shot" the universe. goku isn't one punch man.

[p-hyvo]

I actually support the idea of Omega Shenron being around 80% (at max) of Super Saiyan God Goku's power. Not pure universal, but still a strong opponent who after Z would seem impossible to defeat in the BoG saga (as SSJG is massively stronger than SSJ3 and Buu).



So, basically, the strongest Shadow Dragon, in his super form which is ten times stronger, from an alternate timeline where he is even more powerful, with a new form that multiplies his said strength by many times, required a SSJ3 Fusion to be defeated?

Pretty sure I had sen the fight somewhere, but it kinda makes you wonder how much powerful the Xeno variants are. I really don't get why they are so strong without god ki and without experiencing anything groundbreakingly different than the main timeline characters.

Xeno Goku has God ki in fact, he just doesn't have mastery on it.
Plus, the xeno timeline is different because it's like z+films>gt, and xeno Goku had turned god against broly for whatever reason.
Xeno characters do have a lot of hax that makes them op, so op they would beat anyone from the canon timeline, even zeno and daishinkan (in fact, the daishinkan that trained ccl Goku in dbh isn't the same daishinkan from dbs just for the fact that he scales from Goku ccl, who scales from xeno Goku, who via hax is easily stronger than zeno from dbs)

I find this kind of scaling to be very dubious.

Nah, trust me. Xeno Goku is full of hax

[Polyphase Avatron]

Xeno Goku has God ki in fact, he just doesn't have mastery on it.
Plus, the xeno timeline is different because it's like z+films>gt, and xeno Goku had turned god against broly for whatever reason.
Xeno characters do have a lot of hax that makes them op, so op they would beat anyone from the canon timeline, even zeno and daishinkan (in fact, the daishinkan that trained ccl Goku in dbh isn't the same daishinkan from dbs just for the fact that he scales from Goku ccl, who scales from xeno Goku, who via hax is easily stronger than zeno from dbs)

I find this kind of scaling to be very dubious.

Nah, trust me. Xeno Goku is full of hax

Saying he could beat Zeno just seems silly.

[Rakurai]

Saying he could beat Zeno just seems silly.

It sounds silly because it’s wrong. Xeno Goku is around the level of post-ToP SSB Goku. And whatever ‘hax’ he’s referring to is also a load of BS, Xeno Goku has limitations as much as the next character and for example, can’t survive erasure by Zeno.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Saying he could beat Zeno just seems silly.

It sounds silly because it’s wrong. Xeno Goku is around the level of post-ToP SSB Goku. And whatever ‘hax’ he’s referring to is also a load of BS, Xeno Goku has limitations as much as the next character and for example, can’t survive erasure by Zeno.

Unless he gained the power to jump to another timeline or something, I don't see how he could avoid being erased either.

[Rakurai]

Saying he could beat Zeno just seems silly.

It sounds silly because it’s wrong. Xeno Goku is around the level of post-ToP SSB Goku. And whatever ‘hax’ he’s referring to is also a load of BS, Xeno Goku has limitations as much as the next character and for example, can’t survive erasure by Zeno.

Unless he gained the power to jump to another timeline or something, I don't see how he could avoid being erased either.

And he certainly doesn’t have that ability. His Instant Teleportation is only as potent as his main counterpart’s. Any time travel done by the Time Patrol is facilitated by the Kaioshin of Time and time distortions.

Not to toot my own horn. But I regularly follow SDBH and I’ve almost thoroughly explored the character Goku: Xeno so I know almost everything there is to know about his story, feats, and multiple incarnations. And there’s nothing I would consider hax or multiversal about him like some sites or users would like to claim. Such claims are based around no properly cited sources/evidence, incomplete information, or wrong interpretations of said information.

[Grand Marshal 1]

There's nothing that implies Demigra's magic 'multiplies his strength by many times.' We don't know how much stronger he is in that regard. Demigra's dark magic for all we know could've only increased his strength by 1.05x. All we know is that Demon form Xeno Super Yi Xing Long is no match for SSJ3 XGohanks.

God ki is overrated. Even in the main Super canon (both manga and anime), god ki becomes superseded by other non-god characters. I don't know where you got these arbitrary percentages for Super Yi Xing Long but based on SDBH scaling, which is the closest we have to comparing GT and Super characters in some powerscale, Super Yi Xing Long (GT) can likely take on and defeat BoG SSG Goku: SSJ XGogeta was required to defeat Super Yi Xing Long (GT), and SSJ Gogeta in DBS matches SSJ Broly who easily rattles SSB Goku and Vegeta, together (and therefore babyshakes SSG Goku and Vegeta, together).

It isn't like I used a certain theory to come up with these numbers, but I simply wanted to give emphasis on how powerful the enemies of the Xeno individuals are in comparison to those that existed in the "main" timelines. Besides, this is the Gt Omega you are telling me about and it is kinda hard to imagine that he would require two SSJBs to be brouht down (as two SSJBs performed poorly against C-type Broly, who dealt with Super Gogeta's opposition, and by your standarts he is somewhat equal (I assume) to the XGogeta as a Super Saiyan who defeated Shenron).

Because, if we use game continuities, there is the Extreme Butoden, where Super Saiyan God Goku faced off against a more powerful than his GT counterpart, Omega Shenron. He defeated him, however.

[Rakurai]

It isn't like I used a certain theory to come up with these numbers, but I simply wanted to give emphasis on how powerful the enemies of the Xeno individuals are in comparison to those that existed in the "main" timelines. Besides, this is the Gt Omega you are telling me about and it is kinda hard to imagine that he would require two SSJBs to be brouht down (as two SSJBs performed poorly against C-type Broly, who dealt with Super Gogeta's opposition, and by your standarts he is somewhat equal (I assume) to the XGogeta as a Super Saiyan who defeated Shenron).

Because, if we use game continuities, there is the Extreme Butoden, where Super Saiyan God Goku faced off against a more powerful than his GT counterpart, Omega Shenron. He defeated him, however.

But why would it be hard to imagine Super YXLong requiring two SSBs to defeat? How does this perception come about? Where is the smoking gun in the main series that says SSG supersedes the Shadow Dragons even though GT occurs way after chronologically? I would never imagine that No. 17 could rival SSB Goku in the anime, yet he has at one point. I would never imagine that SSG Vegeta could be damaged by a planet's energy, yet the latest manga arc shows just that.

I use SDBH powerscaling because it is what I follow and it is what is most current as far as the franchise goes. Fair enough, you can use Extreme Butoden as a source for powerscaling but if you want to bring the Time Patrol into the same powerscale, you're going to get contradictions because of powercreep adjustments. Prior to the Broly film, not a lot of ppl believed SSJ Gogeta > SSB Goku and Vegeta, yet it is just that. There nothing wrong with following other powerscales but you need to be careful so as not to mix multiple sources or to specify the continuity, similar to DBS anime and manga.

[Grand Marshal 1]

It isn't like I used a certain theory to come up with these numbers, but I simply wanted to give emphasis on how powerful the enemies of the Xeno individuals are in comparison to those that existed in the "main" timelines. Besides, this is the Gt Omega you are telling me about and it is kinda hard to imagine that he would require two SSJBs to be brouht down (as two SSJBs performed poorly against C-type Broly, who dealt with Super Gogeta's opposition, and by your standarts he is somewhat equal (I assume) to the XGogeta as a Super Saiyan who defeated Shenron).

Because, if we use game continuities, there is the Extreme Butoden, where Super Saiyan God Goku faced off against a more powerful than his GT counterpart, Omega Shenron. He defeated him, however.

But why would it be hard to imagine Super YXLong requiring two SSBs to defeat? How does this perception come about? Where is the smoking gun in the main series that says SSG supersedes the Shadow Dragons even though GT occurs way after chronologically? I would never imagine that No. 17 could rival SSB Goku in the anime, yet he has at one point. I would never imagine that SSG Vegeta could be damaged by a planet's energy, yet the latest manga arc shows just that.

I use SDBH powerscaling because it is what I follow and it is what is most current as far as the franchise goes. Fair enough, you can use Extreme Butoden as a source for powerscaling but if you want to bring the Time Patrol into the same powerscale, you're going to get contradictions because of powercreep adjustments. Prior to the Broly film, not a lot of ppl believed SSJ Gogeta > SSB Goku and Vegeta, yet it is just that. There nothing wrong with following other powerscales but you need to be careful so as not to mix multiple sources or to specify the continuity, similar to DBS anime and manga.

Thank ypu for the advice. It is only the fact that of all new forms, only Super Saiyan God was treated as a omni-powerful form. Even with Blue Evolution, a form much superior, we didn't get the same "standing in awe in front of it's power" thing, as we did with SSJG.

[ruler9871]

Saying he could beat Zeno just seems silly.

It sounds silly because it’s wrong. Xeno Goku is around the level of post-ToP SSB Goku. And whatever ‘hax’ he’s referring to is also a load of BS, Xeno Goku has limitations as much as the next character and for example, can’t survive erasure by Zeno.

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku when they are clearly different people.

[ruler9871]

goku nor beerus "one shotted" the universe when they fought. what do you mean?

They were stated to be able to one-shot all of U7 with their clashes by Old Kai.

The fact that they clashed multiple times means that they couldn't "one shot" the universe. goku isn't one punch man.

1. Goku was able to control is strentgh, that's why the final clash didn't one-shot the Universe 7

2. Neither where at full power.

3. Saitama can't literally one-punch everything, that;'s just a fan myth.

[Grimlock]

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku

The funny part is that you used an example that is also correct.

The only Goku that has Super Saiyan 4 is the one from Dragon Ball GT, as well as the only Goku that has Ultra Instinct is the one from Dragon Ball Super. So until you have something to back it up your claim, all the actual evidences point to that being the case.

[ruler9871]

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku when they are clearly different people.

The funny part is that you used an example that is also correct.

The only Goku that has Super Saiyan 4 is the one from Dragon Ball GT, as well as the only Goku that has Ultra Instinct is the one from Dragon Ball Super. So until you have something to back it up your claim, all the actual evidences point to that being the case.

Heroes has long since made it clear that Xeno Goku is not the one from GT. The events of GT never even happened to the Xeno characters' timeline, Xeno Goku & Xeno Vegeta unlocked SSJ4 through different methods, they both have God ki and Xeno Goku was never turned into a kid.

[Grimlock]

Heroes has long since made it clear that Xeno Goku is not the one from GT. The events of GT never even happened to the Xeno characters' timeline, Xeno Goku & Xeno Vegeta unlocked SSJ4 through different methods, they both have God ki and Xeno Goku was never turned into a kid.

Again, source? I'd like to take a look at "whatever Heroes made it clear" if you don't mind.