Statements about the Shadow Dragons in GT Perfect Files? States they will destroy the galaxy or universe?

[ruler9871]

Heroes has long since made it clear that Xeno Goku is not the one from GT. The events of GT never even happened to the Xeno characters' timeline, Xeno Goku & Xeno Vegeta unlocked SSJ4 through different methods, they both have God ki and Xeno Goku was never turned into a kid.

Again, source? I'd like to take a look at "whatever Heroes made it clear".

The fact that he experienced BoG, the 13 Z movies (which don't count in GT), has God ki, never died in his version of the Cell Games, has light skin in Base and other details prove that he obviously isn't GT Goku. In fact, he actually met GT Goku in a previous mission, showing them as different Gokus.

[Grimlock]

The fact that he experienced BoG, the 13 Z movies (which don't count in GT), has God ki, never died in his version of the Cell Games, has light skin in Base and other details prove that he obviously isn't GT Goku. In fact, he actually met GT Goku in a previous mission, showing them as different Gokus.

I still don't see any evidences, only your claims. Please provide them so that we can move on from this huge misconception of yours.

[Rakurai]

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku when they are clearly different people.

CC Goku is post-ToP Goku. Xeno Goku is a Goku that has experienced the events of GT. These are facts.

Heroes has long since made it clear that Xeno Goku is not the one from GT. The events of GT never even happened to the Xeno characters' timeline, Xeno Goku & Xeno Vegeta unlocked SSJ4 through different methods, they both have God ki and Xeno Goku was never turned into a kid.

All you need to do is simply read through the arcade dialogue to figure out that Xeno Goku has fought the Shadow Dragons in the past. That is a GT event.

Nothing indicates that they unlocked SSJ4 through different methods. It is your speculation.

Again, you are confusing two versions of Xeno Goku. The Xeno Goku who went through the events of BoG and DBS is Xeno Goku from DBH: UMX. This Xeno Goku can also sense God ki, has trained with Whis in his own timeline, recognizes Champa, Vados, and Gowasu. In contrast, the Xeno Goku from SDBH has no such given facts. In fact, via the SDBH manga, XGoku states that CC Goku is using a power he doesn't know about (god ki).

This has all been discussed and elaborated upon in the SDBH thread. Any user who actively participates in the SDBH thread and follows the arcade/manga will tell you that. Like Grimlock says, this misconception needs to stop.

The fact that he experienced BoG, the 13 Z movies (which don't count in GT), has God ki, never died in his version of the Cell Games, has light skin in Base and other details prove that he obviously isn't GT Goku. In fact, he actually met GT Goku in a previous mission, showing them as different Gokus.

This sounds like you are taking information straight from the DB Wiki, which is incomplete and offers no context as to the character it is describing. That Xeno Goku page is garbage, and there is your mistake right from the start.

[Rakurai]

Thank ypu for the advice. It is only the fact that of all new forms, only Super Saiyan God was treated as a omni-powerful form. Even with Blue Evolution, a form much superior, we didn't get the same "standing in awe in front of it's power" thing, as we did with SSJG.

You'll have to excuse me if I come off as rude or blunt, I get annoyed when ppl start pulling arbitrary numbers to powerscale DB but as long as you recognize that it's your own speculation, then alright.

I think it's more of a matter of adjustment to powerscaling standards in DB. Back when BoG was released, SSG was compared to SSJ4, and now that SSB is more mainstream, it is SSB that is being compared to SSJ4 this time.

I choose SDBH because Extreme Butoden is outdated compared to SDBH, which has stories and is constantly updated in terms of content. SDBH even has its own manga and anime (partially), so I give more weight to their efforts and the DB universe that Bandai is creating. They are trying to weave all the series into a common "multiverse" so to speak via the Time Patrol, which is essentially the modern incarnation of classic DBZ/GT.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Thank ypu for the advice. It is only the fact that of all new forms, only Super Saiyan God was treated as a omni-powerful form. Even with Blue Evolution, a form much superior, we didn't get the same "standing in awe in front of it's power" thing, as we did with SSJG.

You'll have to excuse me if I come off as rude or blunt, I get annoyed when ppl start pulling arbitrary numbers to powerscale DB but as long as you recognize that it's your own speculation, then alright.

I think it's more of a matter of adjustment to powerscaling standards in DB. Back when BoG was released, SSG was compared to SSJ4, and now that SSB is more mainstream, it is SSB that is being compared to SSJ4 this time.

I choose SDBH because Extreme Butoden is outdated compared to SDBH, which has stories and is constantly updated in terms of content. SDBH even has its own manga and anime (partially), so I give more weight to their efforts and the DB universe that Bandai is creating. They are trying to weave all the series into a common "multiverse" so to speak via the Time Patrol, which is essentially the modern incarnation of classic DBZ/GT.

I clearly understand that. I truly wish I could use Heroes in my debates actually. The thing is that people regard it as a "non-canon" source and as such, it has zero solid evidence to be used in a debate. I am not sure if that is a right thing to do though. I cancomprehend that not all games and other media provide good power scaling, but heroes isn't really that bad. It is a different thing from the anime (well some of the anime moments were linked to the game, weren't they?) where people say that Base Cumber takes down Blue Kaio Ken Vegito, but he needs SSJ3 to deal with SSJ4 Vegito Xeno. That really wouldn't be the case I guess as both CC and Xeno variants have a similar level of power.

I might be wrong and I acknowledge that, so thank you once again for pointing out your opinion, because it helped realise some things.

[ankokudaishogun]

Saying he could beat Zeno just seems silly.

It sounds silly because it’s wrong. Xeno Goku is around the level of post-ToP SSB Goku. And whatever ‘hax’ he’s referring to is also a load of BS, Xeno Goku has limitations as much as the next character and for example, can’t survive erasure by Zeno.

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku when they are clearly different people.

Capsule Logo Goku is for all intents and purposes post-ToP Goku, so much they didn't even formally brand him with a :CC or anything of sort to differentiate him.
He might not be Canon Goku, but he split from him after the ToP, which makes him... well, post-ToP Goku.

[sunsetshimmer]

It sounds silly because it’s wrong. Xeno Goku is around the level of post-ToP SSB Goku. And whatever ‘hax’ he’s referring to is also a load of BS, Xeno Goku has limitations as much as the next character and for example, can’t survive erasure by Zeno.

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku when they are clearly different people.

Capsule Logo Goku is for all intents and purposes post-ToP Goku, so much they didn't even formally brand him with a :CC or anything of sort to differentiate him.
He might not be Canon Goku, but he split from him after the ToP, which makes him... well, post-ToP Goku.

He is Goku that is based on DBS Goku post ToP. It's basically the same thing as old movies. I mean Goku from Cooler movie was "Goku after Namek" and so on, but nothing more than that. Anything CC Goku has done can't be applied to DBS Goku in any way.

[ruler9871]

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku when they are clearly different people.

CC Goku is post-ToP Goku. Xeno Goku is a Goku that has experienced the events of GT. These are facts.

Heroes has long since made it clear that Xeno Goku is not the one from GT. The events of GT never even happened to the Xeno characters' timeline, Xeno Goku & Xeno Vegeta unlocked SSJ4 through different methods, they both have God ki and Xeno Goku was never turned into a kid.

All you need to do is simply read through the arcade dialogue to figure out that Xeno Goku has fought the Shadow Dragons in the past. That is a GT event.

Nothing indicates that they unlocked SSJ4 through different methods. It is your speculation.

Again, you are confusing two versions of Xeno Goku. The Xeno Goku who went through the events of BoG and DBS is Xeno Goku from DBH: UMX. This Xeno Goku can also sense God ki, has trained with Whis in his own timeline, recognizes Champa, Vados, and Gowasu. In contrast, the Xeno Goku from SDBH has no such given facts. In fact, via the SDBH manga, XGoku states that CC Goku is using a power he doesn't know about (god ki).

This has all been discussed and elaborated upon in the SDBH thread. Any user who actively participates in the SDBH thread and follows the arcade/manga will tell you that. Like Grimlock says, this misconception needs to stop.

The fact that he experienced BoG, the 13 Z movies (which don't count in GT), has God ki, never died in his version of the Cell Games, has light skin in Base and other details prove that he obviously isn't GT Goku. In fact, he actually met GT Goku in a previous mission, showing them as different Gokus.

This sounds like you are taking information straight from the DB Wiki, which is incomplete and offers no context as to the character it is describing. That Xeno Goku page is garbage, and there is your mistake right from the start.

1. Xeno Goku also experienced events from Z and the 13 Z movies. Does that make him Canon Goku too? Its a bad argument. There are Xeno Shadow Dragons too, so he likely wasn't referring to the ones from GT.

2. There's only one Xeno Goku, not multiple ones. Where did you get that assumption of multiple Xeno Gokus from? And your examples are false, when he said that CC Goku is using an unfamiliar power he was referring to SSB, not God ki.

3. I didn't use the DB Wiki, that's just a false assumption you made.

[ruler9871]

Capsule Corp Goku is not DBS Goku. Its like claiming Xeno Goku is GT Goku when they are clearly different people.

Capsule Logo Goku is for all intents and purposes post-ToP Goku, so much they didn't even formally brand him with a :CC or anything of sort to differentiate him.
He might not be Canon Goku, but he split from him after the ToP, which makes him... well, post-ToP Goku.

He is Goku that is based on DBS Goku post ToP. It's basically the same thing as old movies. I mean Goku from Cooler movie was "Goku after Namek" and so on, but nothing more than that. Anything CC Goku has done can't be applied to DBS Goku in any way.

Exactly. CC Goku even had his own alternative version of the ToP arc, making it clear that he's not the same guy from DBS/the main continuity.

[Tai Lung]

Goku GT is not Goku xeno I thought that was clear only seeing that Goku xeno in base is not a child.

in the history of the game goku SSB was superior to goku xeno, unlike the anime and manga where they are equal level.

"When Super Saiyan 4 Goku: Xeno fights Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Goku: Xeno is defeated, exhausted after the battle while Goku is not, Goku: Xeno notes that Goku is a step above him in power".
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Xeno_Goku

It depends how you take the omega's statements about universe and galaxy however he can only do that by accumulating negative energy in an undetermined time.

goku cc should be the same goku Post-TOP but anyway has differences because video games have a different logic would be better not to complicate and only take what they showed in their respective series or guides.

[p-hyvo]

Ccl Goku IS NOT the canon Goku after ToP, absolutely. Yes, he's setted after the ToP, but non in the main canon continuity. It is another timeline.
He has the Dragon fist, plus ccl vegeta and trunks recognizes respectively cooler and bojack, indicating that they are not the canon ones either.
Said so, they are clearly not as strong as the canon ones, exactly like Goku from movie 5 isn't as strong as post nameck canon Goku, but a lot more.

[Rakurai]

Okay, let's do this.

I will be using the arcade as the main canon, and the manga as supplementary material to further prove my point since it is based on the arcade story, and serves as promotional material for the arcade.

1. Xeno Goku also experienced events from Z and the 13 Z movies. Does that make him Canon Goku too? Its a bad argument. There are Xeno Shadow Dragons too, so he likely wasn't referring to the ones from GT.

1. 13 Z movies - False. The only movie villain interaction whom he's recognized is Broly Dark in SDBH7. Which only implies he's been through the events of M8.

He likely wasn't referring to the ones from GT - False. In UM3, Goku remembers the last time he fought them; there are no previous DBH/SDBH missions of XGoku fighting the Shadow Dragons in the storyline. Furthermore, Goku recognizes Si Xing Long and Si Xing Long wants to fight XGoku again.

Spoiler:

Trunks (Xeno): Thanks to Goku-san and the others, Liang Xing Long, Wu Xing Long, and Qi Xing Long have been defeated!

Goku (Xeno): Although, those guys really powered up since the last time I fought them.

Spoiler:

Goku: You're... Si Xing Long!

Si Xing Long: I've been looking forward to our battle. Fight me fair and square! Son Goku!

2. There's only one Xeno Goku, not multiple ones. Where did you get that assumption of multiple Xeno Gokus from? And your examples are false, when he said that CC Goku is using an unfamiliar power he was referring to SSB, not God ki.

It's not an assumption. It's an observation based on the events of UMX.

Channel that plays through the entire story of DBH UMX:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ZnJSlSo0U0

Previous posts I made after reading some of the story of UMX.

Spoiler:

The full mission dialogue has XGoku recognize SSG Goku and wants to know who's stronger, "the me who borrowed everyone's power" (SSG Goku) or "the me who trained with his own power" (XGoku).

After sifting through some previous videos with mission cutscenes, XGoku can also sense God ki, recognizes Champa, Vados, Zamasu, and Gowasu. Also knows Beerus and Whis. Also, XTrunks doesn't know how to sense God ki but he does seem to know Zamasu...

This would imply that UMX XGoku is actually based on the events of DBS as opposed to GT, except for the remark of 'me who trained with his own power' which is basically how GT takes place in (EoZ Goku going away, training with Uub, etc etc).

BUT, I can't be sure because I simply watched the videos without fully understanding the context behind the missions. The dialogue strongly suggests that XGoku recognizes them because he knew them prior, not because he was filled in by XTrunks or Chronoa.

Someone who's more knowledgeable on the UMX story (like Cipher or S3 Hendrix, maybe they can help) should fill in on this and clarify if need be. But after watching a few videos, and again I stress that I don't know the full story, the dialogue I read makes it all the more clear that UMX XGoku is primarily based on a Super timeline. This XGoku likely doesn't have SSJ4 either because SSJ4 XGoku wasn't released at the time of UMX's release and a SSJ4 XGoku card was never available on UMX AFAIK. And obv, no SSG or SSB XGoku exists in any media, nor is he implied to have access to either of them.

Now Idk whether UMX XGoku recognizes any GT characters or movie villains, haven't seen any of videos with GT/movie characters interacting with him. I can't be bothered to go through each and every one of the channel's videos either.

Conclusion? UMX XGoku is based on Super, SDBH XGoku is based on GT/movies.

Spoiler:

Some other interesting interactions I found in DBH UMX.

XTrunks recognizes Super 17 (GT) in one mission. And I'm not talking about 17, he literally says Super 17.

XGoten and XTrunks don't know who Bardock is when his team (TV special crew AKA Toma, Seripa, Toteppo, Panpuukin) mentions him. For that matter, they don't know who Turles is either (XGoten mistakens him for Goku at first and Bardock's team thinks he's Bardock).

A kinda-sweet, kinda-typical interaction between XGoten and Bardock. Gotta say this is one of those few rare but awesome moments where Bardock interacts with his grandson Goten, the other being a Raging Blast what-if story. Bardock being Bardock still ends up wanting to fight XGoten as a way of saying thanks as a Saiyan for beating Turles.

XVegeta got no chill with King Vegeta, young Vegeta, and younger Nappa lol. Fights them head on.

XTrunks and XGohan recognize Bio-Broly as Broly but are freaked out by his grotesque form. Gohan says Goku isn't here, but he'll defeat Broly in place of him (similar to dialogue he had in M10).

XGoku, XTrunks, and Player avatar meet with Beerus and Zamasu ( ). XGoku recognizes Beerus-sama, but Beerus doesn't know who he is yet he guesses they are the Time Patrol, which shocks XTrunks but Beerus is a god himself after all so ofc he should know ( ). Beerus remarks that XGoku seems to be acquainted with a Beerus from a different timeline, which pretty much confirms UMX XGoku did fight Beerus as a SSG at one point. Also, this is where XTrunks meets Zamasu for the first time so I guess that clears my confusion in my earlier post. Zamasu acts as a guide to hunt down those possessed by evil energy. Not sure why Beerus would be with Zamasu in the first place... (Zamasu turns out to be the dude with the evil energy later on btw, he was deceiving them all along.)

After Player avatar, XGoku, and XTrunks are finished fighting (sparring?) with Whis, they are seen panting and remarking how strong Whis is (duh). Whis comments that XGoku definitely received his other timeline self's teachings. So this pretty much confirms that UMX XGoku also did train with Whis at one point after BoG.

Great Saiyaman 1 interacting with GT Gohan, 5-year old Pan, and Videl in her DBS attire. Note Great Saiyaman doesn't know Pan is his future daughter. Though XGohan recognizes Pan, but that's not too surprising.

Great Saiyaman 2 interacting with Future Gohanks and... Gohanks: EX? Telling them off because of their hair? Yeah I don't even know anymore lol.

UMX XGoku and XTrunks meet Chamel for the first time. In the SDBH manga, they also meet Chamel for the first time.

UMX XGoku reminisces about the time he borrowed power from everyone. In the SDBH manga, XGoku specifically says CC Goku uses a "power he doesn't know about." Nagayama would've made it clear in his manga that XGoku had god ki or recognized the pressure from SSB Goku. There is no indication in both the arcade and manga that XGoku has god ki or has experienced it before.

Both of these events strongly support the fact that UMX XGoku and SDBH XGoku are, in fact, not the same person.

3. I didn't use the DB Wiki, that's just a false assumption you made.

Then where did you find the claim for these certain statements:

> "never died in his version of the Cell Games"
> "he actually met GT Goku in a previous mission, showing them as different Gokus"

Because neither of these statements are verified in the arcade or manga.

> " has light skin in Base and other details prove that he obviously isn't GT Goku"

I'm not saying he is GT Goku. I said he's experienced the events of GT, which there is sufficient evidence for.

[Rakurai]

Ccl Goku IS NOT the canon Goku after ToP, absolutely. Yes, he's setted after the ToP, but non in the main canon continuity. It is another timeline.
He has the Dragon fist, plus ccl vegeta and trunks recognizes respectively cooler and bojack, indicating that they are not the canon ones either.
Said so, they are clearly not as strong as the canon ones, exactly like Goku from movie 5 isn't as strong as post nameck canon Goku, but a lot more.

> "Dragon fist"

False. CC Goku never displayed the ability to use Dragon Fist in the story.

> "trunks recognizes bojack"

An assumption. In the manga (which is the only instance of FTrunks directly interacting with the real Bojack), their encounter is skipped to the end of their battle, and FTrunks simply yells Bojack's name as he defeats him. Doesn't mean he knows him.

Neither of these things mean that CC Goku/Vegeta/Trunks are weaker than DBS post-ToP Goku/Vegeta/post-FTrunks arc FTrunks.

[Grimlock]

Goku GT is not Goku xeno I thought that was clear only seeing that Goku xeno in base is not a child.

Correct. Because Pilaf specifically asked Shenlong to turn Goku permanently into a child, no pass of time, no other magic power, nothing can turn Goku back to normal.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Except Super Saiyan 4. Somehow genetics is more overpowered than Mystical Dragon magic

[p-hyvo]

Ccl Goku IS NOT the canon Goku after ToP, absolutely. Yes, he's setted after the ToP, but non in the main canon continuity. It is another timeline.
He has the Dragon fist, plus ccl vegeta and trunks recognizes respectively cooler and bojack, indicating that they are not the canon ones either.
Said so, they are clearly not as strong as the canon ones, exactly like Goku from movie 5 isn't as strong as post nameck canon Goku, but a lot more.

> "Dragon fist"

False. CC Goku never displayed the ability to use Dragon Fist in the story.

> "trunks recognizes bojack"

An assumption. In the manga (which is the only instance of FTrunks directly interacting with the real Bojack), their encounter is skipped to the end of their battle, and FTrunks simply yells Bojack's name as he defeats him. Doesn't mean he knows him.

Neither of these things mean that CC Goku/Vegeta/Trunks are weaker than DBS post-ToP Goku/Vegeta/post-FTrunks arc FTrunks.

Goku utilizes the Dragon fist in WM, so you are wrong. https://youtu.be/IxuQVvehR1U
About trunks, well, just knowing who bojack is highlights that ccl trunks is not the canon one, since canon trunks never met bojack

[Rakurai]

Goku utilizes the Dragon fist in WM, so you are wrong. https://youtu.be/IxuQVvehR1U
About trunks, well, just knowing who bojack is highlights that ccl trunks is not the canon one, since canon trunks never met bojack

First, WM is essentially a port of the SDBH arcade game, so every card that's featured in WM comes from the arcade. There's no point in saying it's just in WM.

Second, the EX Dragon Fist is a card action ability that's general to other characters, including SSJ2 Gohan, FTrunks, and SSJ3 Gotenks. You might want to take a look at the video you linked again cause that shows ALL the cards capable of utilizing Dragon Fist ability. EX Dragon Fist is in the same spirit as God Kamehameha and EX Spirit bomb, where both are CAAs that can be utilized by various DB characters who are not Goku.

Third, card action abilities are NOT representative of in-game story characters, e.g. FTrunks from Prison Planet arc has a SSJ3 card but he's never used SSJ3 in the game story nor is he implied to have access to it.

This just goes to show you don't know anything about DBH/SDBH, much less World Mission.

And again, that scene is vague and it is as valid to say FTrunks only met Bojack during that instance. All the more so when Vegeta didn't know who Bojack was in the arcade.

Furthermore, Fuu says that he's taken various warriors from various different spacetimes. Meaning that the Bojack they encounter is most likely a Bojack from another dimension.

[Tai Lung]

Goku GT is not Goku xeno I thought that was clear only seeing that Goku xeno in base is not a child.

Correct. Because Pilaf specifically asked Shenlong to turn Goku permanently into a child, no pass of time, no other magic power, nothing can turn Goku back to normal.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

Anyway, Goku remained as a child until the end to say something else is speculate.

[Grimlock]

Anyway, Goku remained as a child until the end to say something else is speculate.

Or you like to be spoon fed. Pilaf obviously didn't ask Shenlong to turn Goku into a kid permanently, which means he will grow up again if nothing happens. Also, Goku remained as a kid during the entire series because Dragon Ball GT takes place in two years, AGE 789 and AGE 790. And also, he appears as an adult one hundred years after Baby saga.

Your argument that Xeno Goku is not GT Goku based on his height is very weak. And speculation is coming up with whatever it is to complicate stuff when Dragon Ball is to be simple. The simplest scenario here is that they are from a point after Dragon Ball GT, saying anything other than that is to create more and unnecessary things, overthinking what is not to be overthought, and it goes without saying that there isn't anything suggesting that they come from another dimension that is not Dragon Ball GT.

[Tai Lung]

Anyway, Goku remained as a child until the end to say something else is speculate.

Or you like to be spoon fed. Pilaf obviously didn't ask Shenlong to turn Goku into a kid permanently, which means he will grow up again if nothing happens. Also, Goku remained as a kid during the entire series because Dragon Ball GT takes place in two years, AGE 789 and AGE 790. And also, he appears as an adult one hundred years after Baby saga.

Your argument that Xeno Goku is not GT Goku based on his height is very weak. And speculation is coming up with whatever it is to complicate stuff when Dragon Ball is to be simple. The simplest scenario here is that they are from a point after Dragon Ball GT, saying anything other than that is to create more and unnecessary things, overthinking what is not to be overthought, and it goes without saying that there isn't anything suggesting that they come from another dimension that is not Dragon Ball GT.

So I can think that it is another goku very different from GT or super "who shows me that I'm wrong?" That is not an argument ...

It is never said that he grew up.
it is never said to be that of gt.
What is the concern of bread and others if Goku can grow naturally again?
in the special simply appears adult goku but nothing is said or because the dragon balls continue to exist and that is because that special was created before the series ended.
if they had that intention why the need to separate in 2 versions if it is assumed that goku gt is the same xeno goku ?.

Really you are not giving me a fact only a theory that you have to prove because if not only is that.