Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:06 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:31 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:52 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:43 am
Major question concerning GT:

What indication do we have that Kid Goku in Base was above SSJ3 Buu Saga tier characters? Other than his fight with Uub, who ha been theorized to be equal to Kid Buu, Goku couldn't have gotten that strong in peaceful times.

Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta was stated to have surpassed Super Vegito. If so, Vegito is weaker than Baby Vegeta. Vegito was SSJ3 level. Many say that Baby Vegeta equals 8 Kid Gokus. Even so, Goku should be many times weaker. Assuming that Vegito has half the power of Baby Vegeta in Base, then Goku should be SSJ2 level by that logic. But not SSJ3 plus.

Besides, even King Kai had stated that any even 100 years of training on Earth would make up for 1 year of training in his world, where Goku didn't get infinitely stronger. Nowhere near 400 times or so. 15 years had passed, ok, but what could Goku possibly bring forth? He stayed on Earth. We would have known if he trained with King Kai all this time and the only reason we see massive power-ups in Super, in shorter periods of time, is because god ki, godly training and the hyperbolic time chamber are involved.

Even in the lookout, Goku trained with Uu outside from the chamber...
Much simpler :
Rildo being > buu while suppressed
Obviously, the buu Goku referees to is buuhan in his rage state, or else it wouldn't make sense.

Goku >trunks>base rildo >pan rage>base rildo > Buchan rage > sigma mega cannon

Going by this, base rildo fp >= super vegetto at least. Gt referrers the movies continuity, so super baby vegeta >ssj gogeta movie 12>>>>vegetto z

Plus, base vegetto isn't at all ssj tier but much, much more, and, by logic,if gt was canon to the main continuity,the vegetto took in exam would be the ssj and not the base one.
And uh, between z and gt there are 5 years, not 15 (10 from buu saga to gt)
The American dub added 5 years because why not, but in the Japanese there are just 5 years and not 10 between z and gt
Even less years for Goku to train then...I can accept everything about GT, as in the end it came to be, but literally speaking, 10 years of Earth-only training (with especially the first years being Goku teaching Uub and only in the ending years him sparring with him) should never cause such a growth in power.
The central part of training was on kami's lookout, maybe Goku and oob asked dende to remove any regulation from roast.
Even with a earth week of rosat, I can see that happen. But we don't really know, maybe dende just created a special rosat like room just for Goku and oob without the time regulation, one year of training with an equivalent of kid buu can perfectly give that result to me
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)
My power levels https://tbphyvopowerlevels.forumcommunity.net/m/
In the folder named "PL DI TUTTE LE SERIE + AF (TOYO E JIJII), VERSIONE CON I MIEI MOLTIPLICATORI"
if You ne ed any translation to comprehend something there Pm me

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:14 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:06 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:31 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:52 pm


Much simpler :
Rildo being > buu while suppressed
Obviously, the buu Goku referees to is buuhan in his rage state, or else it wouldn't make sense.

Goku >trunks>base rildo >pan rage>base rildo > Buchan rage > sigma mega cannon

Going by this, base rildo fp >= super vegetto at least. Gt referrers the movies continuity, so super baby vegeta >ssj gogeta movie 12>>>>vegetto z

Plus, base vegetto isn't at all ssj tier but much, much more, and, by logic,if gt was canon to the main continuity,the vegetto took in exam would be the ssj and not the base one.
And uh, between z and gt there are 5 years, not 15 (10 from buu saga to gt)
The American dub added 5 years because why not, but in the Japanese there are just 5 years and not 10 between z and gt
Even less years for Goku to train then...I can accept everything about GT, as in the end it came to be, but literally speaking, 10 years of Earth-only training (with especially the first years being Goku teaching Uub and only in the ending years him sparring with him) should never cause such a growth in power.
The central part of training was on kami's lookout, maybe Goku and oob asked dende to remove any regulation from roast.
Even with a earth week of rosat, I can see that happen. But we don't really know, maybe dende just created a special rosat like room just for Goku and oob without the time regulation, one year of training with an equivalent of kid buu can perfectly give that result to me
Most definitely. However assuming that they had no access to it, what about then?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:28 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:14 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:06 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:31 pm


Even less years for Goku to train then...I can accept everything about GT, as in the end it came to be, but literally speaking, 10 years of Earth-only training (with especially the first years being Goku teaching Uub and only in the ending years him sparring with him) should never cause such a growth in power.
The central part of training was on kami's lookout, maybe Goku and oob asked dende to remove any regulation from roast.
Even with a earth week of rosat, I can see that happen. But we don't really know, maybe dende just created a special rosat like room just for Goku and oob without the time regulation, one year of training with an equivalent of kid buu can perfectly give that result to me
Most definitely. However assuming that they had no access to it, what about then?
Anyway , base Goku >z verse is fact, no matter how he trained.
It's gt, we are talking about a series in which goten, who apparently didn't trained at all, in baby saga is magically stronger than anyone in z by scaling.
So, just don't ask about why he or anyone else is as strong, just take the fact and accept it.
Making questions on that things only creates problems
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)
My power levels https://tbphyvopowerlevels.forumcommunity.net/m/
In the folder named "PL DI TUTTE LE SERIE + AF (TOYO E JIJII), VERSIONE CON I MIEI MOLTIPLICATORI"
if You ne ed any translation to comprehend something there Pm me

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:38 am

p-hyvo wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:28 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:14 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:06 pm

The central part of training was on kami's lookout, maybe Goku and oob asked dende to remove any regulation from roast.
Even with a earth week of rosat, I can see that happen. But we don't really know, maybe dende just created a special rosat like room just for Goku and oob without the time regulation, one year of training with an equivalent of kid buu can perfectly give that result to me
Most definitely. However assuming that they had no access to it, what about then?
Anyway , base Goku >z verse is fact, no matter how he trained.
It's gt, we are talking about a series in which goten, who apparently didn't trained at all, in baby saga is magically stronger than anyone in z by scaling.
So, just don't ask about why he or anyone else is as strong, just take the fact and accept it.
Making questions on that things only creates problems
Yeah, I have already accepted that fact. It doesn't change. They wanted them to be as strong. It is just a wild guess of why it could be a thing. Besides, without asking these questions one cannot understand how things work, despite their troublesome nature.
My posts will speak for myself! :)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:34 pm

None of the transformations after Z ever got official multipliers for them (though, some can be assumed through common sense). Here's my take on it:

Golden Great Ape: 10x SSJ3
SSJ4: 100x SSJ3 (10x Golden Ape)
SSG (Post-Ritual): 100x SSJ3
SSB: 50x SSG in anime, 5x SSG in manga
CSSB: 50x SSG
SSJ Rage: equal to SSB
Freeza Race's Golden Form: equal to SSB
SSJ Rose: equal to SSJ1 in anime, equal to SSB in manga
SSBE: 20x SSB in anime, completely unsure for the manga
SSJ Berzerk: equal to SSJ3 in anime, equal to CSSB in manga
Mastered Berzerk: 50x SSJ3 (half of SSG)
UI Omen: 1000x SSB in anime, completely unsure for the manga
MUI: 100,000x SSB (100x UI Omen) in anime, completely unsure for the manga

These are my best guesses. What are your thoughts?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue May 07, 2019 8:43 pm

So I thought I'd ask for some opinion on this. I'm happy enough with the power level list I made up through the end of Android/Cell Saga but when it comes to the Buu Saga....nah I don't really like what I have.

I've just changed it up a bit and I'm including the Cell Games as a reference. What do people think? Gotenks is the hardest to place and a lot of the other figures kinda revolve around him.

Cell Games Saga

Goku – 50,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 2,500,000,000 

Gohan – 70,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan – 3,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 7,000,000,000

Vegeta – 40,000,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 2,000,000,000 

Trunks – 38,000,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 1,900,000,000 

Piccolo – 1,100,000,000

Cell Jr – 2,200,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 2,800,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Full Power) – 4,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Buff) – 5,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell – 6,000,000,000

Majin Buu Saga

Goku – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 36,000,000,000

Vegeta – 72,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 3,600,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 7,200,000,000
Majin Vegeta – 9,000,000,000

Gohan – 60,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan – 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 5,200,000,000

Majin Buu – 25,000,000,000
Evil Buu - 14,000,000,000
Good Buu - 11,000,000,000

Dabura – 6,000,000,000

Fusion Saga

Gotenks – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan Gotenks – 25,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks – 50,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks – 200,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan – 300,000,000,000

Vegito – 450,000,000,000
Super Vegito – 22,500,000,000,000

Super Buu – 175,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed) – 375,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) – 475,000,000,000

Kid Buu Saga

Goku – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 36,000,000,000

Vegeta – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 9,000,000,000

Good Buu – 11,000,000,000

Kid Buu – 32,000,000,000

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Wed May 08, 2019 1:58 am

ruler9871 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:34 pm
None of the transformations after Z ever got official multipliers for them (though, some can be assumed through common sense). Here's my take on it:

Golden Great Ape: 10x SSJ3
SSJ4: 100x SSJ3 (10x Golden Ape)
SSG (Post-Ritual): 100x SSJ3
SSB: 50x SSG in anime, 5x SSG in manga
CSSB: 50x SSG
SSJ Rage: equal to SSB
Freeza Race's Golden Form: equal to SSB
SSJ Rose: equal to SSJ1 in anime, equal to SSB in manga
SSBE: 20x SSB in anime, completely unsure for the manga
SSJ Berzerk: equal to SSJ3 in anime, equal to CSSB in manga
Mastered Berzerk: 50x SSJ3 (half of SSG)
UI Omen: 1000x SSB in anime, completely unsure for the manga
MUI: 100,000x SSB (100x UI Omen) in anime, completely unsure for the manga

These are my best guesses. What are your thoughts?
Post ritual God : doesn't need to bee so high . For what we have seen, everything from ssj3x1,25 to x2 works just fine.
Kefla , but moreover broly can be seen as a proof of that, with Broly going from being busted by a ssg to beating up a ssg after talking a x10 boost from the yellow eyed oozaru power up form

Freezer's golden form : equal to ssb could work with for, but even there it has to have a higher multiplier than ssb because of the fact that 4°F freezer was weaker than base Goku, while I'm golden he was stronger than a ssb.in the ToP arc, 4°F freezer is a God tier instead, and still a bit stronger than a ssb as golden, so, if ssb is ssg x50, freezer's golden should be at least 4°F x60

Berserk : I don't think at all it is equal to ssj3.
Guaranteed that Goku was suppressed against kale, but imo he was at like 10% anyway,and given that ssj kale<<<ssj Goku, I came to have berserker at 120x ssj. To me is a fair estimate, could seem exaggerated but hey, it is berserker. What isn't exaggerated about that form? Suck a sick power up is ok imo

Mui : just why x100'000 ssb? I'm ok with normal ui being x1000 of a ssb, but for mui x10'000 ssb is enough, even counting the different incarnations of omen. I use x1000>x2000>x2500>x5000>x10'000 and it works just fine
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)
My power levels https://tbphyvopowerlevels.forumcommunity.net/m/
In the folder named "PL DI TUTTE LE SERIE + AF (TOYO E JIJII), VERSIONE CON I MIEI MOLTIPLICATORI"
if You ne ed any translation to comprehend something there Pm me

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Wed May 08, 2019 6:52 pm

Bullza wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:43 pm
So I thought I'd ask for some opinion on this. I'm happy enough with the power level list I made up through the end of Android/Cell Saga but when it comes to the Buu Saga....nah I don't really like what I have.

I've just changed it up a bit and I'm including the Cell Games as a reference. What do people think? Gotenks is the hardest to place and a lot of the other figures kinda revolve around him.

Cell Games Saga

Goku – 50,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 2,500,000,000 

Gohan – 70,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan – 3,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 7,000,000,000

Vegeta – 40,000,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 2,000,000,000 

Trunks – 38,000,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 1,900,000,000 

Piccolo – 1,100,000,000

Cell Jr – 2,200,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 2,800,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Full Power) – 4,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Buff) – 5,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell – 6,000,000,000

Majin Buu Saga

Goku – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 36,000,000,000

Vegeta – 72,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 3,600,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 7,200,000,000
Majin Vegeta – 9,000,000,000

Gohan – 60,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan – 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 5,200,000,000

Majin Buu – 25,000,000,000
Evil Buu - 14,000,000,000
Good Buu - 11,000,000,000

Dabura – 6,000,000,000

Fusion Saga

Gotenks – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan Gotenks – 25,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks – 50,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks – 200,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan – 300,000,000,000

Vegito – 450,000,000,000
Super Vegito – 22,500,000,000,000

Super Buu – 175,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed) – 375,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) – 475,000,000,000

Kid Buu Saga

Goku – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 36,000,000,000

Vegeta – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 9,000,000,000

Good Buu – 11,000,000,000

Kid Buu – 32,000,000,000
Let's see

1) I'd lower Gohan a bit, 50-70 is too much of a gap between him and Goku.

2) rise piccolo to 90% Ssj trunks, like this is really too low

3) but saga adult saiyans are stated and implied multiple times to be stronger that shin :
Vegeta was sure of winning the tournament in base, even if piccolo and 18 were there
Dabra and babidi thought that base gohan , vegeta and Goku were strong and also that piccolo and shin was fodders without having any clue about ssj

Shin was shocked about the ease with which Goku and vegeta handled pocus and yakon, enemies that he himself seen as dangerous and immediately told the group they had to go 4v1 on theme to have any chance of winning
So, let's say :

Shin is told to be strong as ssj Goku from cell saga in a guide, so

Goku 6 bil ssj Goku 300 bil
Vegeta 5 bil
Gohan 4 bil ssj 200 bil
Pocus 3,6 bil
Shin 3 bil
Dabra 444 bil (4440 Kiri)

Then raise in cell saga do like this

Super perfect cell 420 bil
Gohan ssj2, rage 480 bil
Cell vs Goku 3,3 bil
Cell full power 6,6 bil
Gohan ssj 3,6 bil
Goku ssj 3 bil
Vegeta ssj 1,8 or 2,5 bil
trunks ssj 1,75 or 2,4 bil
Piccolo 1,5 or 2,2 bil

I'm it's an enormous boost, but that's the downside in using the x50 mult I'm buu saga

4) about but saga :Gohan takes a boost after being healed at the tournament, before that :
Gohan 45'000'000 (daizenshuu stated he hasn't got weaker, but the manga contraddicts that)
Goten and trunks 32'500'000 and 35'000'000 (not too far from Gohan)

5) fusion saga :
Well, next step
Goku ssj is 300 bil,ssj2 600 bil, ssj3 suppressed 1,2 tril
Buu 1,05 tril
Gotenks (as a ssj , everyone was sure he would beat fat buu and, by the reactions of piccolo, we know that base Gotenks>>ssj kids. Let's play with numbers a bit)
Base 32,5 bil
Ssj 1,625 tril

That's perfect

After rosat is said that the kid took a big boost, so

Goten 65'000'000
Trunks 70'000'000
Gotenks 65 bil
Ssj3 26 tril
Super buu 24 tril (just to match numbers and have a round result)
Gohan (strongly implied he's stronger than Goku in base in how he wields the z sword)
Base 10,8 bil
Ultimate 36 tril
Buutenks 50 tril
Buuhan 60 tril
Goku/vegeta both 6 bil
Vegetto (going with the manga, his base is weaker than buuhan, but not by a lot)
Base 54 tril
Ssj 2,7 quad

5) kid buu

Goku had a limit I'm using ssj3 when alive, cause the strain was too much on a living body. So :
Goku 6 bil
Ssj3 (alive limit) 1,2 tril
Kid buu 1,4 tril
Goku ssj3 (full power, he said he could one shot kid buu) 2,4 tril
Genkidama 1,35 tril
Goku, healed by porunga 7,2 bil
Ssj 360 bil
Genkidama, pulled by ssj Goku 1,71 tril


Soo, I hope to have been proofed useful to you and your cause/curiosity, and I hope you'll like my advices as well , and maybe reply with your thoughts. See ya
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)
My power levels https://tbphyvopowerlevels.forumcommunity.net/m/
In the folder named "PL DI TUTTE LE SERIE + AF (TOYO E JIJII), VERSIONE CON I MIEI MOLTIPLICATORI"
if You ne ed any translation to comprehend something there Pm me

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed May 08, 2019 9:20 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:52 pm
Soo, I hope to have been proofed useful to you and your cause/curiosity, and I hope you'll like my advices as well , and maybe reply with your thoughts. See ya
It was very useful.

Maybe I do have Piccolo too low. I think it's because even by the Buu saga I have him weaker than Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks who I don't think are at the Cell Games Future Trunks level but he probably is too a bit too far off.

The Base Adult Saiyans were still established to be weaker than Frieza on Namek in Battle of Gods so I don't know why they had such confidence because by that regard Android 18 and Piccolo should be able to walk all over them.

Was Shin actually said to be equal to Cell Games Super Saiyan Goku? I've never seen that before.

If Base Gotenks is stronger than the Super Saiyan Kids then wasn't Super Saiyan Gotenks still meant to be weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta? That puts a massive gap between Vegeta and Trunks and Trunks did at least hit him.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed May 08, 2019 10:18 pm

Goku and Vegeta had mastered Super Saiyan. Pretty sure if they felt threatened by stronger characters, they would use short bursts of it. Anyway, I think they would drop the tournament right away if they decided to fight seriously. They probably couldn’t hide Super Saiyan in a decisive moment.

Shin was never compared to Cell-Games Goku.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed May 08, 2019 11:29 pm

Bullza wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:43 pm
So I thought I'd ask for some opinion on this. I'm happy enough with the power level list I made up through the end of Android/Cell Saga but when it comes to the Buu Saga....nah I don't really like what I have.

I've just changed it up a bit and I'm including the Cell Games as a reference. What do people think? Gotenks is the hardest to place and a lot of the other figures kinda revolve around him.

Cell Games Saga

Goku – 50,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 2,500,000,000 

Gohan – 70,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan – 3,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 7,000,000,000

Vegeta – 40,000,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 2,000,000,000 

Trunks – 38,000,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 1,900,000,000 

Piccolo – 1,100,000,000

Cell Jr – 2,200,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 2,800,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Full Power) – 4,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Buff) – 5,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell – 6,000,000,000

Majin Buu Saga

Goku – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 36,000,000,000

Vegeta – 72,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 3,600,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 7,200,000,000
Majin Vegeta – 9,000,000,000

Gohan – 60,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan – 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 5,200,000,000

Majin Buu – 25,000,000,000
Evil Buu - 14,000,000,000
Good Buu - 11,000,000,000

Dabura – 6,000,000,000

Fusion Saga

Gotenks – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan Gotenks – 25,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks – 50,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks – 200,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan – 300,000,000,000

Vegito – 450,000,000,000
Super Vegito – 22,500,000,000,000

Super Buu – 175,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed) – 375,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) – 475,000,000,000

Kid Buu Saga

Goku – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 36,000,000,000

Vegeta – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 9,000,000,000

Good Buu – 11,000,000,000

Kid Buu – 32,000,000,000
Here are some power levels presented in a beautiful way. I don't know who made them, and I'm inclined to agree with it due to such a nice presentation but you might want to check it out

https://www.taringa.net/+imagenes/nilve ... enes_i7gtu

p-hyvo
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu May 09, 2019 1:48 am

Bullza wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:20 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:52 pm
Soo, I hope to have been proofed useful to you and your cause/curiosity, and I hope you'll like my advices as well , and maybe reply with your thoughts. See ya
It was very useful.

Maybe I do have Piccolo too low. I think it's because even by the Buu saga I have him weaker than Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks who I don't think are at the Cell Games Future Trunks level but he probably is too a bit too far off.

The Base Adult Saiyans were still established to be weaker than Frieza on Namek in Battle of Gods so I don't know why they had such confidence because by that regard Android 18 and Piccolo should be able to walk all over them.

Was Shin actually said to be equal to Cell Games Super Saiyan Goku? I've never seen that before.

If Base Gotenks is stronger than the Super Saiyan Kids then wasn't Super Saiyan Gotenks still meant to be weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta? That puts a massive gap between Vegeta and Trunks and Trunks did at least hit him.
The kids in buu saga are definitely cell games vegeta/trunks tier . Just the fact they aren't a lot far off Gohan speaks of it.

I WOULD NOT count the bog thing beerus says, because simply goes against everything that was shown in buu saga.
You can treat it like this :
1) beerus was mocking Goku, cause he remarked it even after seeing ssj Goku
2) Goku was chiling out. In fact, he was having a chill time training, there was no reason for him to be full power in that moment when beerus arrived and said that thing
3)simple marvel/dc style retcon
Goku in buu saga was 1000? Ok, now it's bog and he's 1,2 .why?why not.
But that doesn't change how he was in buu saga and anyone in bog has to be re-scaled to the new Goku

Judge you by yourself which way to follow

And no, ssj Gotenks (pre rosat) in the manga is implied to be at least suppressed ssj3 Goku level, or even a bit more. Don't follow SEG, who wrote it surely didn't remember the manga very well, cause it said even that Gohan at the start of buu saga was as strong as in the cell games
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)
My power levels https://tbphyvopowerlevels.forumcommunity.net/m/
In the folder named "PL DI TUTTE LE SERIE + AF (TOYO E JIJII), VERSIONE CON I MIEI MOLTIPLICATORI"
if You ne ed any translation to comprehend something there Pm me

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Thu May 09, 2019 1:11 pm

Bullza wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:20 pm

Was Shin actually said to be equal to Cell Games Super Saiyan Goku? I've never seen that before.
It's from the Daizenshuu when comparing Shin to Buu Saga Piccolo.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Thu May 09, 2019 1:25 pm

I've made a list of the top 25 strongest characters in Super since the DBS Broly film. Here's what I got:

1. Zeno
2. The Grand Priest
3. The 12 Angels
4. MUI Goku
5. Awakened Jiren
6. Current SSB Fusion
7. Full Power Broly
8. The 12 Hakaishin
9. SSBE Vegeta
10. GoD Toppo
11. SSJ2 Kefla
12. Infinite Zamasu
13. Spirit Sword Trunks
14. Black arc SSB Fusion
15. True Golden Freeza
16. Aniraza
17. Android 17
18. Hit
19. SSR Goku Black (Scythe)
20. Ultimate Gohan
21. Full Speed Dsypo
22. Koichiarator
23. Obuni
24. Saonel & Pirina
25. SSB Copy-Vegeta


I didn't include Zalama nor Zeno's guards due to lack of feats & statements about their power.

What do you guys think? Did I miss anybody or get something wrong?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu May 09, 2019 1:50 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:25 pm
I've made a list of the top 25 strongest characters in Super since the DBS Broly film. Here's what I got:

1. Zeno
2. The Grand Priest
3. The 12 Angels
4. MUI Goku
5. Awakened Jiren
6. Current SSB Fusion
7. Full Power Broly
8. The 12 Hakaishin
9. SSBE Vegeta
10. GoD Toppo
11. SSJ2 Kefla
12. Infinite Zamasu
13. Spirit Sword Trunks
14. Black arc SSB Fusion
15. True Golden Freeza
16. Aniraza
17. Android 17
18. Hit
19. SSR Goku Black (Scythe)
20. Ultimate Gohan
21. Full Speed Dsypo
22. Koichiarator
23. Obuni
24. Saonel & Pirina
25. SSB Copy-Vegeta


I didn't include Zalama nor Zeno's guards due to lack of feats & statements about their power.

What do you guys think? Did I miss anybody or get something wrong?
I WOULD divide the hakaishins. They are not clearly all in the same tier, in the anime

Jiren>>geene>>liquir/arack/iwne>>>vermouth>versus>=quitela>champa>helles/mosco>>>sidra>>>rumsshi

The 4 gods excluded from the tournament were implied to be stronger than the others, with geenewimpliedto be the strongest of the 4. Rumsshi is just compared to halo merged zamasu, so he's just only a bit stronger than ssr Goku black, and it is clearly implied than sidra is weaker than golden freezer and on par with ssb Goku when he first faces toppo.

Making a top 20 myself, I'd do :

1 Daishinkan (angels are always stronger than destruction gods)
2 Zenoh
3 Zenoh's guards
4 Angels
5 Ssb gogeta
6 Mui goku
7 Ssjfp broly (stated numerous times to be stronger than Jiren)
8 Ufp jiren
9 hakaishin geene
10 hakaishin liquir/wine/arack
11 Android 17 (peak against Jiren)
12 ssbE vegeta (full power)
13 God toppo
14 ssbkk20 Goku (rematch with Jiren)
15 jiren (rematch with ssb Goku)
16 ssb Goku (rematch with Jiren)
17 uio2 goku
18 ssj2 berserker kefla
19 hit (peak against Jiren with time cage)
20 uio1 Goku

Honorable mentions :

21 beerus/ ft arc ssb vegetto/corrupted merged zamasu
22 u7 Genkidama
23 ssbkk20 Goku (early ToP)
24 red ki toppo
25 17
26 golden freezer
27 ssb Goku/vegeta (early ToP) and base Toppo
28 mystic Gohan
29 fullspeed dyspo
30 hit (against dyspo, adapted)
31 God Goku (early ToP)
32 mystic Gohan (early ToP)
33 base dyspo
34 saonel and Pirina
35 piccolo
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)
My power levels https://tbphyvopowerlevels.forumcommunity.net/m/
In the folder named "PL DI TUTTE LE SERIE + AF (TOYO E JIJII), VERSIONE CON I MIEI MOLTIPLICATORI"
if You ne ed any translation to comprehend something there Pm me

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu May 09, 2019 5:10 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:11 pm
It's from the Daizenshuu when comparing Shin to Buu Saga Piccolo.
One of Daizenshuu books does state that Shin is stronger than Piccolo, but how do we know how Piccolo compares to Cell-Games Goku? Back when they fought Cell, Piccolo could more or less put a fight against a Cell Jr., like Vegeta and Trunks. But all of them were still much weaker than Goku at full power. Piccolo’s level at Boo Arc is an unknown. Then, even Daizenshuu’s assessment about Shin’s strength still gives room for Cell-Games Goku to come above.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sat May 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Speaking of Piccolo, I came up with a joke theory and want to see if it's contradicted by anything... note, this is 100% a joke.

So there's the infamous base Saiyans vs Piccolo debate, and Freeza > base Saiyans line from BOG... but there's also the scene of Piccolo struggling with Shisami from RF, who is comparable to Tagoma, who was compared to Freeza.

Now there are explanations ranging from 'ignore Shisami, that's dumb' to 'Shisami is really ~cell games SS1 tier' or 'Piccolo was exhausted'. But what if... Piccolo just got a lot weaker from not training enough?!

7 years after the Cell Games, he's lost enough power to be weaker than the base Saiyans. Then 5 years later, he's weaker than Zarbon. He's also weaker than Frost by a significant margin, and based on Caulifla vs Freeza in the manga Freeza is stronger than Frost.

So we've got SS1 Goku/Caulifla > Freeza > Frost > Base Goku/Caulifla > Zarbon > Piccolo.

Did I miss anything from the manga or movies that would contradict that?
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Mon May 13, 2019 4:01 am

Saiga wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:01 pm
Speaking of Piccolo, I came up with a joke theory and want to see if it's contradicted by anything... note, this is 100% a joke.

So there's the infamous base Saiyans vs Piccolo debate, and Freeza > base Saiyans line from BOG... but there's also the scene of Piccolo struggling with Shisami from RF, who is comparable to Tagoma, who was compared to Freeza.

Now there are explanations ranging from 'ignore Shisami, that's dumb' to 'Shisami is really ~cell games SS1 tier' or 'Piccolo was exhausted'. But what if... Piccolo just got a lot weaker from not training enough?!

7 years after the Cell Games, he's lost enough power to be weaker than the base Saiyans. Then 5 years later, he's weaker than Zarbon. He's also weaker than Frost by a significant margin, and based on Caulifla vs Freeza in the manga Freeza is stronger than Frost.

So we've got SS1 Goku/Caulifla > Freeza > Frost > Base Goku/Caulifla > Zarbon > Piccolo.

Did I miss anything from the manga or movies that would contradict that?
Personally I think that makes sense and I think it makes more sense to start every new arc from a blank slate in regards to characters, that aren't that relevant power wise instead of rigidly holding on to past feats just because the issue isn't properly adressed.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon May 13, 2019 7:59 am

I have to agree. Many seem to forget that if someone can get stronger, they can get weaker as well.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon May 13, 2019 10:06 am

I concur with the idea that they can get weaker, I really do. But I think there should be at least something acknowledging that. Goku himself acknowledges it when he doesn’t train. Gohan is a classic example. Piccolo in another hand is difficult to include in this trend.

When he was training Gohan back to full power, he implied he has been improving himself while Gohan did no real training (a homage to Vegeta in the Great Saiyaman Arc), so it’s unlikely that Piccolo got weaker at any point after fighting Cell or Boo.

RF could just have cut all the “Zarbon-Dodoria-Ginyu” stuff, tell Shisami and Tagoma were the last elite warriors left after Freeza was killed and give a hint that Freeza himself trained them after being revived and drew out their potential. We partially got that with Tagoma in the anime, but Shisami didn’t get the same treatment.

Whenever I think about that, the thought that it was a very bad executed idea always crosses my mind. So, we are practically forced to assume that either Piccolo got very tired from fighting Namek Arc level space goons and/or that Shisami was Freeza’s sparring partner on the movie and as a result he became much stronger.

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