"Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 11, 2019 4:10 pm

Turning different transformations into separate characters is DBFZ' biggest mistake. Its not like it's impossible to balance the game when some characters install transformations and others none.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Sat May 11, 2019 4:26 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:10 pm
Turning different transformations into separate characters is DBFZ' biggest mistake. Its not like it's impossible to balance the game when some characters install transformations and others none.
It has a lot more to do with how Arksys model and create characters I assume. They had this in guilty gear Xrd when they brought in the modelling and animation style they use here too.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Sat May 11, 2019 4:29 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:45 pm
Even after two seasons, this game roster still has the same flaws and it's a joke compared to other fighting games.

- Lack of female fighters.
- Too many versions of the same characters. As if 3 Gokus weren't enough, now we have 4. Another Broly is coming and that's not counting with the 3 Vegetas, 2 Gohans and 2 Buus.

I would like the sequel of this game to be called DB FighterS and focus mainly on DBS characters, because seems like the only way for characters like Trio de Dangers, Ribrianne, Caulifla, Kale and Toppo make the cut. As for Kefla, no idea what happened. Seemed like a obvious choice for DLC, but I guess Base Goku, Base Vegeta, Gt Goku, Videl + a third Gohan were more important.
Lack of female fighters is almost a universal problem in fighting games across the board, and no, Dead or Alive and other bikini ninja games are not a counterbalance. So is remix characters: Tekken, Street Fighter, Smash (if you want to count it), Blazblue and even really obscure games do this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat May 11, 2019 5:12 pm

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:29 pm
Lack of female fighters is almost a universal problem in fighting games across the board, and no, Dead or Alive and other bikini ninja games are not a counterbalance. So is remix characters: Tekken, Street Fighter, Smash (if you want to count it), Blazblue and even really obscure games do this.
Pretty sure Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Blazblue, Street Fighter, etc... have more than 3 female fighters.
Remix characters aren't a problem when done in small capacity, but when we have 4 Gokus, 3 Vegetas, 2 Brolys, 2 Gohans and 2 Buus now that's a problem.
Last edited by FortuneSSJ on Sat May 11, 2019 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 11, 2019 5:16 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 2:35 pm
if towa is not in the game ... and for those surveys that were done ... it seems few know her ... I do not see reason to add DBH characters that references would use? probably nobody recognizes them.
FortuneSSJ wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:45 pm
Even after two seasons, this game roster still has the same flaws and it's a joke compared to other fighting games.

- Lack of female fighters.
- Too many versions of the same characters. As if 3 Gokus weren't enough, now we have 4. Another Broly is coming and that's not counting with the 3 Vegetas, 2 Gohans and 2 Buus.

I would like the sequel of this game to be called DB FighterS and focus mainly on DBS characters, because seems like the only way for characters like Trio de Dangers, Ribrianne, Caulifla, Kale and Toppo make the cut. As for Kefla, no idea what happened. Seemed like a obvious choice for DLC, but I guess Base Goku, Base Vegeta, Gt Goku, Videl + a third Gohan were more important.
so far I'm still wondering why videl ....
pan, caulifla, ribrianne have more movements that fit the game better
ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:46 pm
Jord wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:35 am
snip
Good writing has nothing to due with who works best in a fighting game. Besides, Kale, Caulifla & Kefla are better characters than over 90% of the franchise's cast (powerscaling issues aside). And are definitely better characters than nearly all of DB's other female characters except Bulma, Chirai, Android 21, Buu saga Videl, Android arc 18 and Future Mai.
Although I agree that bulma, 18 and F Mai may be better
people overvalue to 21 is not different to kale,both were based on a masculine character that already exists (buu and broly) only that kale has evelopment that makes it a little different ....
I do not see chirai or videl better
Jord wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:35 am
I can see how people want more female fighters but to me, they aren't a priority. is just a Broly-stand in and with 2 Brolies already in the roster we don't need another one. Kefla feels like a Broly-light to me. That both Kale and Kaulifla were horrible written characters doesn't help for me either.
When we do include female fighters I would rather see GT Pan, a "good" Android 21 skin and someone like the time Kaioshin from the Heroes/Xenoverse games. Maybe even include 22nd Budokai Chi-Chi, who was a nice surprise in Super DragonBall Z on the Ps2.

Those would be nice but I would prioritize a lot of other, more important characters like Janemba, Baby Vegeta, Omega Shenron, Roshi, Raditz, Garlic Jr, Dabura and Satan.

In Dragonball there aren't many strong or good written female characters, in part due to it's shonen audience and in part due to Toriyama admitting he isn't good at writing for female characters.
21 is mostly fanservice .. and generally overrated
I do not see better written pan than caulifla I see them really the same ... both have a debatable error in power levels but they were the ones that had the best battle also some development.
chichi fought only once ... and her movements are less than those of videl and with writing .. she retired when she married, I do not see her better either
Almost all of her background story is buu, she can not control herself, she separates in 2 parts good and bad, she is destroyed by the spirit bomb to be reincarnated after.
if samebody are going to complain that kale is a copy of broly, I do not think it's remember android 21.
maybe but videl has appeared in more games

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 11, 2019 8:10 pm

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:29 pm

Lack of female fighters is almost a universal problem in fighting games across the board, and no, Dead or Alive and other bikini ninja games are not a counterbalance.
Nearly every fighting game franchise has a large bunch of playable female fighters (usually 20% to 40% of the cast). The genre is not in any way lacking them, in fact, fighting games tend to have more playable female characters than most other video game genres (except JRPGs).
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dark_Tzitzimine » Sat May 11, 2019 9:30 pm

GT Goku manga and anime references

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxXuBqfJv9U

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jord » Sun May 12, 2019 4:46 am

nato25 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:58 pm
Anyone complaining about the roster doesn't understand that this game wasn't going to have a large roster.

Arc Sys have done an amazing job cramming as much of the series as possible into everyone. Almost every major character or form is represented some how, arguably apart from Raditz. The way they mash in elements when they can is great, e.g base goku having the ending genki dama. Goku and Vegeta and Gohan have been around a long time. You honestly didnt want SSJ2 teen Gohan and ultimate Gohan? SSB needed some representation and to ASW credit they didnt just make them alt skins.

Every character plays rather uniquely as well. And for those complaining about women, come on guys. Yes if I was adding two more DLC characters one of them would almost definitely be Kefla, but you think in a limited roster like this Ribrianne would earn a spot?

This is the perfect small roster in my opinion.
I agree and I actually don't see the roster as small. At the end of the season we have around 38 characters that for the most part feel like original characters with unique presentations and move sets. With the amount of detail and fan service I call that a pretty big roster.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Sun May 12, 2019 5:40 am

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:12 pm
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:29 pm
Lack of female fighters is almost a universal problem in fighting games across the board, and no, Dead or Alive and other bikini ninja games are not a counterbalance. So is remix characters: Tekken, Street Fighter, Smash (if you want to count it), Blazblue and even really obscure games do this.
Pretty sure Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Blazblue, Street Fighter, etc... have more than 3 female fighters.
Remix characters aren't a problem when done in small capacity, but when we have 4 Gokus, 3 Vegetas, 2 Brolys, 2 Gohans and 2 Buus now that's a problem.
Nice strawman, but the balance is still lopsided in the male department in most fighting games. And all the games you mentioned are still male dominated. MK 11's roster has less than half of it as women, and this is their most 'progressive' game as some have called it.

As for SF: Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gouken, Dan, Kage, Evil Ryu are all examples of shotos, which has been a joke for ages.

Tekken has its whole 'mishima gang' and the clones like Kuma/Panda running around.

My point is, the complaints you have are more common to the bredth of fighters, not this one specifically. At this point it's practically something ingrained in the genre. Unfortunate, but expected

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun May 12, 2019 10:50 am

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:40 am
Nice strawman, but the balance is still lopsided in the male department in most fighting games. And all the games you mentioned are still male dominated. MK 11's roster has less than half of it as women, and this is their most 'progressive' game as some have called it.
I never said we should have the same number between both genres, but we could have more female fighters in DBFZ just like all the other fighting games have.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 12, 2019 12:12 pm

If we're talking about female fighters for a DB fighting game. Aside from the ToP Super cast, we got plenty of others if we expanded our horizons out:
  • Chi-chi (OG DB)
  • Pan (GT)
  • Bra (GT) - Admittedly not a large moveset but they can always make something up
  • Kaioshin of Time (DBO/Xenoverse/DBH/SDBH)
  • Majin Towa (Xenoverse/DBH/SDBH)
  • Majin Poutine (Xenoverse/DBH/SDBH)
  • Lagss (SDBH)
  • Gine (DBS)
  • Seripa (Bardock's crewmate)
I'm sure there's more but those are the ones off the top of my head. Having the Majins (Demon gods) would especially be a great one since they're generally the more powerful and magical characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Sun May 12, 2019 12:23 pm

The usual fighting games don't have an original materia to respect. They can come up with new girls as much as they want, create them if need be to have their quota.

This game, on the other hand, has to offer what's the most interesting in the original material, and girls are not the most memorable fighters in this material. The last one that's worth adding now is probably Kefla. Even Ribriand would be okay but not necessarily among the most memorable fighters you'll remember when thinking about the Dragon Ball franchise history, so even Ribriand is optional.

I don't think they should follow an agenda of "fighting games usually need to represent..." before following the agenda of "people like to play as / are fascinated by..." (reason for which we have the new Broly or Kid Goku) mixed with "this fighter would bring interesting fighting mechanics" (reasons for which we have the likes of Janemba or C-17).

Putting girls just because "we need more girls" doesn't represent Dragon Ball or fighting mechanics properly.
Otherwise, we can also go "fighting games need at least one black character, therefore let's put Oob", "fighting games need at least one LGBT character, therefore let's put Commander Blue", etc... and those are not the most memorable DB characters to select, this is a bad way to decide who to add.

Do you see people actually getting hyped and saying "oh yes, now I can play as teen Chichi, she's alway been my favorite!!" or "great, I've been dreaming of playing as Zangya for years!!"? Not really, I guess. So no need to follow an agenda, what's the point of going
"good, now we have more girls... although they're pretty non-remarquable fighters to play or face...".

Don't add girls just for adding girls if they didn't stand out in the original work.
And don't add anything from Heroes which is a massive "invents things regardless of logic" fan-fiction fest. Fighterz is more serious than that and shapes characters based on details of the best original productions (DB manga-anime, DBZ manga-anime, DBS anime, and DBZ movies only for the DLCs). They don't go inventing stuff just for the sake of adding extra girls.

If you don't feel the lack of variety in the manga/anime, you shouldn't feel it in the game based on it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 12, 2019 12:31 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Don't add girls just for adding girls if they didn't stand out in the original work.
And don't add anything from Heroes which is a massive "invents things regardless of logic" fan-fiction fest. Fighterz is more serious than that and shapes characters based on details of the best original productions (DB manga-anime, DBZ manga-anime, DBS anime, and DBZ movies only for the DLCs). They don't go inventing stuff just for the sake of adding extra girls.
Here we go with the Heroes-is-fanfic bullshit again.

Majin Towa, Poutine, Kaioshin of Time, and Lagss are new characters whom play central roles of their respective stories. More so than characters such as Ribrianne, Caulifla, Kale, those other female ToP fodders. DBS didn't make any girls play a central role in the story with the exception of Kale/Caulifla/Kefla. And that's not saying much.

And in the end, this is just a video game. They can add whatever from the franchise they want, and all the more better to give lesser known characters representation. Change often doesn't start from Toriyama's or Toyotarou's or Toei's mind.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Sun May 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Do you see people actually getting hyped and saying "oh yes, now I can play as teen Chichi, she's alway been my favorite!!"
Chi-Chi was an extremely well-received and popular character in Super Dragon Ball Z.

This "oh nose keep the girls out of my fighting game because it doesn't represent the seriessssssssss" is really bonkers and questionable and concerning.
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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sun May 12, 2019 1:05 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Don't add anything from Heroes which is a massive "invents things regardless of logic" fan-fiction fest. Fighterz is more serious than that and shapes characters based on details of the best original productions (DBS anime).
I don't know how you can call Heroes illogical fan fiction and then call Super "a best original production" in the same sentece.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 12, 2019 1:12 pm

sintzu wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:05 pm
Cold Skin wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Don't add anything from Heroes which is a massive "invents things regardless of logic" fan-fiction fest. Fighterz is more serious than that and shapes characters based on details of the best original productions (DBS anime).
I don't know how you can call Heroes a fan fiction and then call Super "a best original production" in the same sentece.
I don't know how I missed a detail in his post like that.

If Heroes is fanfiction then the Super anime and film are products of my 5-year old self's imagination run wild.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sun May 12, 2019 1:18 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:12 pm
If Heroes is fanfiction then the Super anime and film are products of my 5-year old self's imagination run wild.
Despite being a game, Heroes has some very interesting ideas, but why do that in Super when you can get Freeza, Broly and another tournament for the 10th time.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sun May 12, 2019 1:20 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:49 pm
Cold Skin wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Do you see people actually getting hyped and saying "oh yes, now I can play as teen Chichi, she's alway been my favorite!!"
Chi-Chi was an extremely well-received and popular character in Super Dragon Ball Z.

This "oh nose keep the girls out of my fighting game because it doesn't represent the seriessssssssss" is really bonkers and questionable and concerning.
With all due respect I feel like you're somewhat misrepresenting the argument. No one is really arguing there shouldn't be girls in the game, he's just saying Chi-Chi wouldn't be very interesting to a lot of people. Yeah she was interesting in SDBZ, but it should be noted that game limited itself to good old DB/Z characters, and the argument is that there are currently many characters who would be deemed more interesting and serve the purpose of fulfilling a larger fanbase. Ribrianne and Kefla are two characters he even points out would be more interesting than Chi-Chi, and they're girls too. I'd personally rather see them in the game. But if Chi-Chi got in there'd be a ton of people whining even harder "WHY'D SHE GET IN OVER RADITZ/BOJACK/BABY/OMEGA/CABBA/yougettheidea" not because she's a girl but because all those other characters got the flashy fireworks that the kids tended to enjoy Dragon Ball for.

People just want characters with cool abilities and whatnot. It's disheartening for me to see that reduced down to "OH YOU DON'T WANT GIRLS IN THIS GAME? YOU GOSH-DARNED SEXIST!" It's an unfortunate side-effect of the brand that 90% of the interesting characters (in terms of fighting) are male. I wouldn't be mad seeing Chi-Chi get in honestly, especially if she made use of the fan, but seeing the argument reduced to sexism I gotta defend it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Sun May 12, 2019 1:26 pm

If all the "we can't have this girl because then we'd have to _______" (see prior outline about oh no we'd have to include every inclusion ever!)... didn't actually devolve down into that, maybe it wouldn't be so transparent.

Maybe we can just have some more girls because maybe we should have some more girls. Let little Bobby (or, more likely, grown-ass adult Bob) be upset that poor ol' Magetta didn't make it in above Chi-Chi and continue to move the goal-post about which character is actually most relevant to include or not include.

This is extremely absurd.
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Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 12, 2019 1:40 pm

sintzu wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:18 pm

Despite being a game, Heroes has some very interesting ideas, but why do that in Super when you can get Freeza, Broly and another tournament for the 10th time.
Why let the new, bold, and creative DB storywriters who are clearly passionate about their work take the reigns on the DB franchise direction when you can armstrong Toriyama into making more Resurrection Fs, movie villain reboots, tournaments, and Super Saiyan recolors in between Buu and EoZ where time is infinite and the kids will never grow up?

How could I also forget best SDBH girl ROBERU? I want to see her in a game outside of SDBH so we can finally give her more moveset variety, assuming SDBH Demon gods story never gets adapted into an anime (which I believe will happen eventually).

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