To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

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Zamasu55
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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by Zamasu55 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:53 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:16 pm
HeroR wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:31 pm
Goku clearly got stronger with UI in the manga. He went from no doing anything at all against Jiren to smashing him even when Jiren got serious.
not exactly.

First, Manga Jiren wasn't as absurdly strong as Anime Jiren.
Anime Jiren was a complete monster. He was basically Perfect Cell to Namek Goku.
Manga Jiren was "just" stronger than Goku.

And it was stated explicitly that Goku was managing to harm him while in UI because he would automatically strike Jiren's blind and weak points the instant he would lower guard on them: basically, Manga UI is using AutoCrit
This is not true.

Jiren > Belmod >> Goku. This is what the manga tells us.

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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by HeroR » Wed May 15, 2019 11:31 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:16 pm
HeroR wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:31 pm
Goku clearly got stronger with UI in the manga. He went from no doing anything at all against Jiren to smashing him even when Jiren got serious.
not exactly.

First, Manga Jiren wasn't as absurdly strong as Anime Jiren.
Anime Jiren was a complete monster. He was basically Perfect Cell to Namek Goku.
Manga Jiren was "just" stronger than Goku.

And it was stated explicitly that Goku was managing to harm him while in UI because he would automatically strike Jiren's blind and weak points the instant he would lower guard on them: basically, Manga UI is using AutoCrit
Jiren was just as strong as his anime counterpart since he tanked hits from completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, non-Blue Kaioken Goku, and non-Evolved Blue Vegeta. He also fought both Hit and Goku at the same time, something that not even Anime Jiren did with no injury. He wasn't even effected by Hit's Time Lag, while Anime Jiren was frozen for a moment.

Calling Anime Jiren a complete monster to Cell is over the top. For one, Jiren never hunted down and ate people to get stronger. The worst Jiren did was shot at the audience, which is closer to Majin Vegeta.

There was a power different and just doing crits wouldn't suddenly hurt Jiren when suppressed Jiren was tanking hits from all the above Blue Super Saiyan forms.
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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri May 17, 2019 5:34 pm

I did mean "monster" as in "monster of might".

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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by Miracles » Fri May 17, 2019 8:54 pm

Ultra Instinct was a concept since DB. Toyotaro's manga touched upon it and even TOEI's director stated it was a concept from way back when.
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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by emperior » Sat May 18, 2019 4:12 am

Miracles wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:54 pm
Ultra Instinct was a concept since DB. Toyotaro's manga touched upon it and even TOEI's director stated it was a concept from way back when.
No, it wasn’t. Toyotaro trying to shoehorn it into the various teachings Goku received doesn’t retroactively make Ultra Instinct something that was always implied to exist and that Goku always strived to achieve.

And I bet that the director was referring to Roshi’s “there’s always someone stronger out there” when mentioning how it was also thanks to Roshi’s teachings that Goku reached this level. Because besides making Goku physically stronger, that was the only thing Roshi ever taught him in the original manga.

The concept was introduced with Resurrection of F, please let’s stop acting like it was always there in the manga because it definitely wasn’t.
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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by Miracles » Sat May 18, 2019 8:44 am

emperior wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:12 am
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:54 pm
Ultra Instinct was a concept since DB. Toyotaro's manga touched upon it and even TOEI's director stated it was a concept from way back when.
No, it wasn’t. Toyotaro trying to shoehorn it into the various teachings Goku received doesn’t retroactively make Ultra Instinct something that was always implied to exist and that Goku always strived to achieve.

And I bet that the director was referring to Roshi’s “there’s always someone stronger out there” when mentioning how it was also thanks to Roshi’s teachings that Goku reached this level. Because besides making Goku physically stronger, that was the only thing Roshi ever taught him in the original manga.

The concept was introduced with Resurrection of F, please let’s stop acting like it was always there in the manga because it definitely wasn’t.
I'm not saying UI always existed since DB. I'm saying the general idea of it [concept] was from the various teachings Goku had as demonstrated in Toyotaro's manga. As well as the Director stating the teachings of Roshi. UI is bred from past principles of DB.
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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat May 18, 2019 10:31 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:53 am
This is something I wrote in a previous post as it related to the rollout in the respective manga chapter:

They absolutely have discussed this kind of concept before. They even go out of their way to remind you right there in the chapter itself with just a few of the countless times it's been brought up in the history of the franchise:

Image

All of that stuff references actual conversations from the original series where the same basic principles were being discussed. Ultra Instinct is a wholly consistent concept based on previous material. Sure, it's not by name, but I think part of the point of what they're going for here: all roads seem to lead to this end-point in martial arts.
This “end point”. I like it. It seems Goku’s training has now come full circle. Were it not for the fact that he couldn’t maintain it by the end of this arc ofcourse.
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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 18, 2019 11:21 pm

superfan2024 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:02 am
I get it, Whis referenced it in RoF, but yeah.... that was it. It was about thinking without moving, but Whis just said it, and we then got it a few arcs later. In the manga's ToP Arc, it was like Goku was initially hinting that he had something coming, and then after Jiren beats him up and Roshi gives him a pep talk, he just.. gets it.

In the anime, Goku broke through his limits by the Spirit Bomb, and then can just starts moving without thinking just because he broke his limits. With the anime and manga, what about Vegeta? Vegeta and Goku are roughly the same strength in the anime and manga yet Vegeta doesn't get the form? Of course I prefer the anime's take more, but maybe if we saw more of Whis actually training Goku and Whis to get Ultra Instinct throughout the RoF, U6, and FT arcs, then it might've been more convincing.

I also don't know where Toriyama and the writers are gonna go after Ultra Instinct, which is why that I like that Goku isn't spamming it (didn't even use it in Broly which is good).
the spirit bomb was never the reason, it was just the trigger ...
SSJ3 and SSJ4 came out of nowhere.
SSJ2 was something unique to gohan after .. it became a level that anyone could get it just training.
SSJ and UI were explained previously.

also whis explains to goku and vegeta the bases of that skill and even explains why goku was the most suitable to get it unlike vegeta.

you could also say that it is referred to in certain occasions episode 5, episode 71

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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun May 19, 2019 1:00 pm

If you ask me, Ultra Instinct is a lot more creative and sensible than most fan ideas of Goku's next form (SSJ5-6-7-etc., SSJG2-3, Super Saiyan Green...).
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Re: To me, Ultra Instinct feels like it came out of nowhere

Post by Super Murjin » Fri May 24, 2019 5:54 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:00 pm
If you ask me, Ultra Instinct is a lot more creative and sensible than most fan ideas of Goku's next form (SSJ5-6-7-etc., SSJG2-3, Super Saiyan Green...).
Totally agree! :thumbup:

I actually hated those days when fans where hoping for SSJ5-SSJ10 :wtf:

The way they are approaching new transformations is Super is way better.

But, I kinda hope they stop at Ultra Instinct. No more transformations or hair color changes. Make Ultra Instinct a form that has immense potential.

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