Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Rubens wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 8:33 am
I think super saiyan became a "joke" mainly in Boo arc, first because of how easily Goten and Trunks could do it and then how quickly super saiyan 2 was surpassed, by both Boo and the super saiyan 3 form.
In the Artificial Humans arc, despite the nonsense of technology surpassing a legendary transformation, it still feels palpable or at least credible at some extent, as the arc itself presents the reasoning for it. The necessity of aiming to improve the super saiyan form is something that aligns with the story. In Boo arc I felt the form was cheapened by Goku and Vegeta fighting each other as ss2, after Goten and Trunks revealing their lack of difficulty to attain regular ss, culminating with presenting ss3 - and by extention, the introduction of equally cheap naming scheme.
I think this post sums up the major turning point.
In the arc preceding the last arc of the original series, Super Saiyan was still treated as a big deal, and thought went into exploring its depths of power as the original iteration started to lose out to stronger opponents. It still felt like being a Super Saiyan was a major part of the overall story, and Gohan's ascension into the next level solidified this evolution into this new level of the form, the culmination of the Saiyans' exploration of perfecting the legendary transformation.
But after that? No particular narrative focus was paid to Super Saiyan as a form and how it could be made better.
It was a combination of Vegeta attaining it offscreen in the Android/Cell arc and Goten and Trunks attaining it like it was nothing in the Majin Boo arc.
I say combination, as in, Vegeta attaining the form the way he did was dumb because It flew right in the face of everything that happened on Namek -- with regards ats why he could become a SSJ in the first place -- and retroactively ruined all of the symbolism with regards to how Goku became a SSJ in the first place.
Goten and Trunks are all magnitudes of worse, not just because of how nonchalant them attaining SSJ is treated, but because Toriyama tried to play it off as a joke... only for the story to backpedal on that and treat Goten and Trunks' insane SSJ power as something to be treated seriously. So SSJ is treated as a gag in the Majin Boo arc that ultimately has no punchline. It's isn't just a joke, it's a bad joke.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.