Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue May 21, 2019 2:50 pm

Nokra wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:51 am
wolflonnie wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am
So uhm, how strong is current Buu in your opinion?
As strong as the plot and toyotaro demand.
The truth for most characters isn't it.

However it's going to be interesting to see what Moro is made of with his full magic power back. To add, he is going to increase his Ki by absorbing all the powers of planet Namek too!!!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Tue May 21, 2019 10:09 pm

Strongest character Supreme Kai can beat?...I'll go with Piccolo :thumbup:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue May 21, 2019 10:18 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:45 pm
Even with everything it's hard for me to say that Buu has surpassed Goku and Vegeta in terms of power output. It seems its more due to the magic vs magic fight that is giving him the main advantage.
Although Boo’s special abilities let him overcome some of Moro’s moves, I think he is definitely more powerful than Moro, even after he grew stronger after absorbing Goku and Vegeta’s energy. It’s much easier to swallow it when you consider that Freeza, No. 17 and Gohan can rival SSBlue nowadays. If Boo started better than them, it’s likely that his unlocked potential would be greater as well.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Wed May 22, 2019 7:48 am

To be fair, Moro IS physically weak right now. His greatest asset was his magic, and Vegeta made short work of him when it stopped being effective. Maybe his strength doesn't increase linearly, since he only "changed" after absorbing the last remnants of Goku and Vegeta's ki, and Merus was able to catch him off guard even then.

His physical power will probably peak when/if he absorbs Namek's raw energy, and with his full magic in hand I don't doubt he'll be a bigger threat than Merged Zamasu (ironically proving his point as well that mortals are too dangerous).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 am

Miracles wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:36 am
The only canon fact we have in power comparison among the gods is that Beerus and Quitela were fighting for the throne of strongest. Everyone else is lower than them.
I disagree. Sidra managed to block a blast from Beerus, powerful enough to perhaps take out or at least seriously damage a fellow GoD, with his barrier is if it were nothing. Rummush's roar paralysed every single GoD in the arena, Beerus included. Belmod's card trick damaged everyone as well.

It was a Battle Royale, everyone were fighting everyone, and most of the fighting was actually offscreen. We never saw who eliminated whom with the exception of Beerus and Quitela, both of whom only delivered the final blow to their opponents. They lasted until the end, but it wasn't a faithful 1x1, so it's hardly a gauge of power. Of endurance and cunning, sure, but not necessarily power. Belmod exemplified this perfectly when he simply faked defeat instead of keeping fighting, so he would easily pick apart the last GoD and win the whole thing if Grand Priest hadn't stopped it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed May 22, 2019 8:23 am

Overall, I think it's just safer to put all the Gods of Destruction in the same general range of power, with the differences between them not being significant enough to definitively say who's the strongest beyond a drawn-out 1v1.

The level is treated as a general tier to compare to in all mediums, and it makes sense to view it as such unless we're told/shown exceptions like Zamasu being stronger than any Kaioshin or Shin being pretty trash compared to his Universe's Kaioshin; the same likely applies to the other tiers of gods.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed May 22, 2019 11:35 am

Nokra wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:51 am
wolflonnie wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am
So uhm, how strong is current Buu in your opinion?
As strong as the plot and toyotaro demand.
I'm really starting to hate this excuse.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed May 22, 2019 1:02 pm

I'm not keeping up with the manga, how is Moro compared to people like Black or Zamasu?
"Behold this ultimate vessel. The sword and shield made one. Its strength knows no limits. The power coursing through me is exceptional, glorious, absolute. Stare in awe, I AM JUSTICE INCARNATE!!!"

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed May 22, 2019 1:31 pm

I think the GoDs in the Goku6-Beerus10-Whis15 ranking would be around 9.8 and 10.2 or something like that. There was a post somewhere around here that managed to make work, by the end of the ToP, Toriyama's outdated ranking.

Buu was stated to have become stronger after recovering his memories. But Moro isn't anything special, aside of his magical abilities. Although in the next chapter he might be stated to be stronger than Jiren, I wouldn't place Buu nowhere near SSB as of now.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed May 22, 2019 2:24 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:02 pm
I'm not keeping up with the manga, how is Moro compared to people like Black or Zamasu?
It’s difficult to tell, because he mostly depends on his magic, but considering he managed to restore his magic to its fullest, he can power-up as long as there is energy left for him to absorb. Right now, he has absorbed a paired energy of SSBlue and a lot of energy from Namek and its inhabitants.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Wed May 22, 2019 2:25 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:02 pm
I'm not keeping up with the manga, how is Moro compared to people like Black or Zamasu?
So far there is no way to know. He was trashed by SSBE Vegeta and held the advantage over SSG Vegeta, then absorbed both his and Goku's ki. Both versions of Vegeta that fought Moro are respectively weaker and stronger than manga Merged Zamasu, and by extension Black and Zamasu.

With his magic fully restored and the power of the planet empowering him, it's up in the air how strong he is. Buuuuut if he becomes at least able to fight SSBE Vegeta evenly, then he will be much stronger than M. Zamasu.
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:31 pm
Buu was stated to have become stronger after recovering his memories. But Moro isn't anything special, aside of his magical abilities. Although in the next chapter he might be stated to be stronger than Jiren, I wouldn't place Buu nowhere near SSB as of now.
God I hope not.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed May 22, 2019 3:01 pm

Thani wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 am
Miracles wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:36 am
The only canon fact we have in power comparison among the gods is that Beerus and Quitela were fighting for the throne of strongest. Everyone else is lower than them.
I disagree. Sidra managed to block a blast from Beerus, powerful enough to perhaps take out or at least seriously damage a fellow GoD, with his barrier is if it were nothing. Rummush's roar paralysed every single GoD in the arena, Beerus included. Belmod's card trick damaged everyone as well.

It was a Battle Royale, everyone were fighting everyone, and most of the fighting was actually offscreen. We never saw who eliminated whom with the exception of Beerus and Quitela, both of whom only delivered the final blow to their opponents. They lasted until the end, but it wasn't a faithful 1x1, so it's hardly a gauge of power. Of endurance and cunning, sure, but not necessarily power. Belmod exemplified this perfectly when he simply faked defeat instead of keeping fighting, so he would easily pick apart the last GoD and win the whole thing if Grand Priest hadn't stopped it.
Regardless of what happened the narration stated Beerus and Quitela are the top. Despite not facing everyone in the battle royale, they still faced the gods who KO'd other gods so therefore they were both knocking out the stronger gods. Regardless of what attacks the other gods through at them Beerus and Quitela were still there at the end which means nothing the other gods did were enough to stop them. They are the top class among the gods. This is the only canon we got in comparison among gods.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Wed May 22, 2019 3:23 pm

Miracles wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:01 pm
Thani wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 am
Miracles wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:36 am
The only canon fact we have in power comparison among the gods is that Beerus and Quitela were fighting for the throne of strongest. Everyone else is lower than them.
I disagree. Sidra managed to block a blast from Beerus, powerful enough to perhaps take out or at least seriously damage a fellow GoD, with his barrier is if it were nothing. Rummush's roar paralysed every single GoD in the arena, Beerus included. Belmod's card trick damaged everyone as well.

It was a Battle Royale, everyone were fighting everyone, and most of the fighting was actually offscreen. We never saw who eliminated whom with the exception of Beerus and Quitela, both of whom only delivered the final blow to their opponents. They lasted until the end, but it wasn't a faithful 1x1, so it's hardly a gauge of power. Of endurance and cunning, sure, but not necessarily power. Belmod exemplified this perfectly when he simply faked defeat instead of keeping fighting, so he would easily pick apart the last GoD and win the whole thing if Grand Priest hadn't stopped it.
Regardless of what happened the narration stated Beerus and Quitela are the top. Despite not facing everyone in the battle royale, they still faced the gods who KO'd other gods so therefore they were both knocking out the stronger gods. Regardless of what attacks the other gods through at them Beerus and Quitela were still there at the end which means nothing the other gods did were enough to stop them. They are the top class among the gods. This is the only canon we got in comparison among gods.
The narration only stated they managed to see the end of it. Both of them were very hurt overall and barely standing, and so were everyone else by the time the match ended. There is absolutely no statement how it went, and we SAW the chaos of it all - people were getting sucker punched left and right. Beerus and Quitela were just seen subduing two enemies that could have spent the whole fight getting the shit beaten out of them by other gods, the same that probably happened to them both. They can be on top, sure, but the gap is not as large as people think.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed May 22, 2019 3:40 pm

Thani wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:23 pm
Miracles wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:01 pm
Thani wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 am


I disagree. Sidra managed to block a blast from Beerus, powerful enough to perhaps take out or at least seriously damage a fellow GoD, with his barrier is if it were nothing. Rummush's roar paralysed every single GoD in the arena, Beerus included. Belmod's card trick damaged everyone as well.

It was a Battle Royale, everyone were fighting everyone, and most of the fighting was actually offscreen. We never saw who eliminated whom with the exception of Beerus and Quitela, both of whom only delivered the final blow to their opponents. They lasted until the end, but it wasn't a faithful 1x1, so it's hardly a gauge of power. Of endurance and cunning, sure, but not necessarily power. Belmod exemplified this perfectly when he simply faked defeat instead of keeping fighting, so he would easily pick apart the last GoD and win the whole thing if Grand Priest hadn't stopped it.
Regardless of what happened the narration stated Beerus and Quitela are the top. Despite not facing everyone in the battle royale, they still faced the gods who KO'd other gods so therefore they were both knocking out the stronger gods. Regardless of what attacks the other gods through at them Beerus and Quitela were still there at the end which means nothing the other gods did were enough to stop them. They are the top class among the gods. This is the only canon we got in comparison among gods.
The narration only stated they managed to see the end of it. Both of them were very hurt overall and barely standing, and so were everyone else by the time the match ended. There is absolutely no statement how it went, and we SAW the chaos of it all - people were getting sucker punched left and right. Beerus and Quitela were just seen subduing two enemies that could have spent the whole fight getting the shit beaten out of them by other gods, the same that probably happened to them both. They can be on top, sure, but the gap is not as large as people think.
Being hurt does not negate Beerus and Quitela from being the strongest. And no one is arguing the difference in strength whether it be small or much [Tho Beerus was handling ALL the gods at once and almost killed a handful by himself is DAMNING!]. The fact is the gods that KO'd other gods were KO'd by Beerus and Quitela. It was a domino effect of who was strongest. Then add to the fact the narration implied both were competing for the strongest twice. So it is Beerus and Quitela > everyone else according to the only official/canon we got so far.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed May 22, 2019 3:58 pm

No one denies that the likes of Beerus, Quitela, and Belmod are the strongest among their class.

However, what CAN be contested is just how much that difference ultimately is. Some folks believe that they are many times superior, whilst I and other folks believe that the difference is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Given the additional material, such as the talk about the God of Destruction being a general level and the hype about surpassing it as a whole, I think a stronger case can be made for Beerus and other top-tier Gods of Destruction not being many times stronger than their peers, but rather only by a small amount.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Wed May 22, 2019 4:33 pm

Beerus is probably stronger in the manga compared to anime so I guess beerus is the strongest. Quitela or Vermoud is probably stronger in the anime based off of whis comment about arm wrestling.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed May 22, 2019 4:39 pm

Even in the anime Beerus and Quitela are shown to have history. There is never any mention with Beerus and Belmond. Belmond is never factored in the equation in either anime or manga as one of the strongest.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu May 23, 2019 10:23 am

Thani wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:25 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:02 pm
I'm not keeping up with the manga, how is Moro compared to people like Black or Zamasu?
So far there is no way to know. He was trashed by SSBE Vegeta and held the advantage over SSG Vegeta, then absorbed both his and Goku's ki. Both versions of Vegeta that fought Moro are respectively weaker and stronger than manga Merged Zamasu, and by extension Black and Zamasu.

With his magic fully restored and the power of the planet empowering him, it's up in the air how strong he is. Buuuuut if he becomes at least able to fight SSBE Vegeta evenly, then he will be much stronger than M. Zamasu.
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:31 pm
Buu was stated to have become stronger after recovering his memories. But Moro isn't anything special, aside of his magical abilities. Although in the next chapter he might be stated to be stronger than Jiren, I wouldn't place Buu nowhere near SSB as of now.
God I hope not.
In a melee combat, Moro was losing against SSG Vegeta, he only gained advantage after using the planet's life force to attack. Not to mention that since the beginning of the battle he was absorbing the power of Goku and Vegeta

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Thu May 23, 2019 2:13 pm

That's true, but I was referring to his overall power set. But also yes, in raw power alone he was below SSG Vegeta.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu May 23, 2019 5:06 pm

That was before he absorbed Goku and Vegeta’s energy though. He also increased his battle power when he got younger and during his Dragon Ball hunt. Considering that, could his battle power be lower than SSBlue by the time he fights Boo?

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