Vic Mignogna

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Shaddy
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Tue May 21, 2019 9:48 pm

You're not standing in the middle. You're saying you're in the middle while basically only arguing in Vic's favor, just like every other faux-"neutral" person here. You're saying the kickvic side is being unreasonable, acting like both viewpoints are equal when they simply aren't. It's either self-delusion or taking the long way around saying you don't actually believe the allegations. But the playing field isn't level. The vast majority of Vic's supporters are either anti-intellectual fuckwads that don't care about the truth, or misinformed. They aren't entitled to respect because the things they want and say are wrong. Only factually in the case of the misinformed, but morally in the case of everyone else. Pissing about and whining like this is some issue that every opinion is equal and harmless on like the quality of a manga chapter or which music score is better is actively minimizing the issue and being complacent in the bad behavior of Vic's stans. What does taking a neutral position look like? Fucking nothing. You don't say anything. It's possible to do. There are tons of lurking members and guests in this thread and have been for months. Those are the people who are "staying neutral". Your rhetoric is exactly the same as everything Vic supporters say, the only difference is that you staple "neutral" to your forehead and think it absolves you of criticism.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am

Shaddy wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:48 pm
You're not standing in the middle. You're saying you're in the middle while basically only arguing in Vic's favor, just like every other faux-"neutral" person here. You're saying the kickvic side is being unreasonable, acting like both viewpoints are equal when they simply aren't. It's either self-delusion or taking the long way around saying you don't actually believe the allegations. But the playing field isn't level. The vast majority of Vic's supporters are either anti-intellectual fuckwads that don't care about the truth, or misinformed. They aren't entitled to respect because the things they want and say are wrong. Only factually in the case of the misinformed, but morally in the case of everyone else. Pissing about and whining like this is some issue that every opinion is equal and harmless on like the quality of a manga chapter or which music score is better is actively minimizing the issue and being complacent in the bad behavior of Vic's stans. What does taking a neutral position look like? Fucking nothing. You don't say anything. It's possible to do. There are tons of lurking members and guests in this thread and have been for months. Those are the people who are "staying neutral". Your rhetoric is exactly the same as everything Vic supporters say, the only difference is that you staple "neutral" to your forehead and think it absolves you of criticism.
I've called the Vic supporters trolls and baiters that love pissing off the other side, but there are some people on the other side who do the same. I am neutral and I don't have anything to prove to you, judging by the way you are acting I'm going to assume your going through something right now in your life and you feel you have no outlet, so you go to the internet to blow steam.

Staying neutral is easier for some of us for obvious reasons, but your so blinded by rage you can't see past anything, and you are accusing others of doing nothing, what exactly are we going to do? This is a discussion, how am I not allowed to share my thoughts? I am neutral, and I don't need to keep quiet in order for me to prove a point. Your not helping your cause. Your showing you can't argue and resort to absurd statements like that.

I'm not saying you can't criticize me, I'm just saying what I feel my opinion is, you have a sign nailed in your head saying "Disagree and your fucking wrong". I agree with some things you are saying, others, not so much, that is neutral in case you haven't picked up on it, because I am trying to look at things and make an opinion without making any mistakes, which I feel I have not made so far by saying I do believe Monica and a few others, just not all of them. And that's fine, because not everyone is obviously telling the truth, most people, especially the certain VA's, are telling the truth. And so far they have been very good at handling the situation compared to a few months ago, the Vic side is getting worse.

Shaddy, get a fucking grip of yourself you neurotic, self righteous sleazebag. You have done nothing but smash your head against your keyboard this entire time, instead of talking normally like the others, how fucking selfish can you get? You aren't helping the people who are suffering and have been hurt, your making a fool of them, this is no different to someone who stands up for what is 'right', then screams and yells when someone tries to speak, your coming across as a little pathetic angry cluster fuck of a human being, which I'm sure your not, but people seeing this may not have that kind of cognitive thinking. I know, you've had friends, family, etc go through this stuff, I have too, but if you don't take a step back, pull yourself together and take a breath, your going to show everyone all you are is a fragile asshole sitting behind their computer trying to use big 'extrafragilisticexpialidocious' words to seem intelligent, and prove a point, which you fail at miserably. Feel free to actually quote me instead of cop out and just reply to the thread knowing I won't get a notification. Grow up Shaddy.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Wed May 22, 2019 7:20 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:56 pm
Look, i’m all for “innocent until proven guilty”. That should always be the main assumption one has to go with, but the sheer amount of allegations made against him, coupled with the visual evidence of photographs and video evidence out there, really makes it hard to defend him. Vic is guilty. Period. Sure, he didn’t “rape” anybody, but that’s not the point here. He made a great number of people (women mostly) greatly uncomfortable in many situations. And no official court has gotten involved. The holders of the dragon ball conventions have the full right to deny his presence from now on if they so choose. (Kinda like how private companies, like forums such as Kanzenshuu and Gamefaqs can freely choose to limit free speech to whatever standards they hold). You may not like it, and that’s certainly fine. But that’s the truth. I’m sure Vic can be a great guy at times, but he needs help.
I agree, there have been too many people who have come out, there has to have been something that has happened. Something needs to be done, and most of all, HE needs to be honest, even if he claims that he did nothing, which I don't think is true, if I remember he said the stories aren't true which means he has a side as well.

If he can just be as honest as possible and the accusers be as honest as possible, this might not have to go down in such an ugly way.

It's unfortunate but to avoid situations like this I feel as if VA's should be overly close to fans anymore, as sometimes like Vic said, they get used to people wanting hugs and they think everyone wants a hug, that can make people feel uncomfortable, I know it's happened to me before. One of the important things is that he is truthful, and so is everyone else.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Wed May 22, 2019 8:30 am

Centrism is about making no changes, i.e. protecting the status quo from change. When your status quo is a right-wing positition that means centrism is...right-wing.

Fucking hell, y'all. We want Mic Vignogna removed from fandom spaces and his colleagues want him removed from the work spaces where he has committed his crimes, which is apparently nearly all of them. Hardly an unreasonable request given the fact that he's nearly a senior citizen and has had nearly thirty years of a window to learn from his mistakes. Fuck him, there's no reason to suck his dick.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Wed May 22, 2019 10:09 am

DragonBallFan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:33 pm
this is a messy situation, you have the youtubers who admit to wanting to troll and poke fun at the KickVics, and then you have the people on twitter baiting the StandWithVics.
And here is your problem, as well as everybody else's problem who are "only trying to be objective".

For the millionth time, the "shit show" you are referencing, all of that trivial extraneous social media garbage, has nothing to do with the actual core matter of Vic being accused by a score of unassociated parties over a score of years.

That straight fact leaves you with two options - either you believe these multiple accusers of the same man, or you don't. Guess which one makes you an #IStandWithVic'er?
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by mfwlegend3 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm

I really love seeing the continuing “I’m neutral but here’s an explanation as to why I’m not really neutral and I've actually made up my mind a long time ago” stances people make. /s

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed May 22, 2019 12:48 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm
I really love seeing the continuing “I’m neutral but here’s an explanation as to why I’m not really neutral and I've actually made up my mind a long time ago” stances people make. /s
Pretty much this. You either believe the dozens of dozens of women who have been stating for years that Vic is a predatory creep or you don’t.

There’s not a neutral take. Most of the people claiming to be neutral are leaning toward #IstandwithVic

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Shaddy
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Wed May 22, 2019 3:21 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
I've called the Vic supporters trolls and baiters that love pissing off the other side, but there are some people on the other side who do the same. I am neutral and I don't have anything to prove to you, judging by the way you are acting I'm going to assume your going through something right now in your life and you feel you have no outlet, so you go to the internet to blow steam.
Guess what though? Those "people on the other side"? They're still better! They're in the right, even if you don't like what they're doing. I may not like what they're doing. I'm certain plenty of supporters of the victims aren't even good people! But what Vic stans want is wrong. How they get there, even if what they were doing wasn't still worse than the victim's side, is irrelevant, because what their goal is bad. There isn't a person among them who isn't either misinformed, or acting on bad faith. They're not the people we should be tolerating.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
Staying neutral is easier for some of us for obvious reasons, but your so blinded by rage you can't see past anything, and you are accusing others of doing nothing, what exactly are we going to do? This is a discussion, how am I not allowed to share my thoughts? I am neutral, and I don't need to keep quiet in order for me to prove a point. Your not helping your cause. Your showing you can't argue and resort to absurd statements like that.
No, I've argued for a long time in this thread. Long enough that there isn't any mystery anymore. There's no room to circlejerk what some person "should have done" ten years ago when Vic groped them. You had your chance to actually be supportive and not disruptive, to treat the people in the right and the people in the wrong as what they are, but you won't. And I'm not obligated to respect that, and no matter how much you try to embrace this narrative of "civility is the only way", you're not going to bring anyone around because your response to a clear-cut problem of "this guy assaulted these women" is "but the women aren't being civil enough".
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
I'm not saying you can't criticize me, I'm just saying what I feel my opinion is, you have a sign nailed in your head saying "Disagree and your fucking wrong".
Opinions are not harmless. The guy who thinks "black people are savages and should be culled" also has an opinion. But guess what? That opinion is monstrous, dangerous, and evil. I'm not going to treat anyone who thinks that with respect, and you're not going to convince me that the conspiracy theorists treating Vic as an innocent boy targeted by fake evil SJWs are just as valid as the people he assaulted. Which is what you're doing. This isn't Kikuchi versus Faulconer, there are such things as right and wrong opinions in this situation, and treating Vic stans like their opinions are valid is a step away from being one of them. Paradox of tolerance, look it up.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
You have done nothing but smash your head against your keyboard this entire time, instead of talking normally like the others, how fucking selfish can you get?
How selfish can I get for speaking out against a victim-blaming goalpost-moving enlightened centrist who calls me an SJW just for not tolerating his shitty opinion? Hmm, not very much, I'd have to put more effort into it.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
You aren't helping the people who are suffering and have been hurt, your making a fool of them
Ah yes, this repeated point you've made that...has no basis in reality.

There is nothing I've said that weakens the argument of any of Vic's victims, or strengthens his support. Neither the defense nor the accused read this thread, only supporters of either side. I happen to treat the sides the way they should be treated, the people who are wrong are worse than the ones who are right. You on the other hand are constantly rationalizing this "both sides are the same" defense and trying to "stay neutral" while also blaming victims and saying the Vic stans "deserve a chance" to explain themselves. This thread has been around for months, they had their chance, but you cannot "respectfully" argue something as wrong as "dozens of unrelated women accusing one guy of groping them for fifteen years are all lying sluts", just like you can't respectfully argue "black people are savages".

This is the "sensitive liberals are why Trump won" defense. It's dismissing a person's attitude as a justification for supporting bad people by claiming you were "pushed the other way" by their rhetoric.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
this is no different to someone who stands up for what is 'right', then screams and yells when someone tries to speak, your coming across as a little pathetic angry cluster fuck of a human being, which I'm sure your not, but people seeing this may not have that kind of cognitive thinking.
Actually, it's completely different from that. You have been allowed to speak. So have I. You expressed a shitty opinion, I told you and the others why it was shitty. What you need to understand is that debating people with shitty ideas isn't about convincing them. It's about stemming the flow of misinformation and rationalization of shitty behavior.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
if you don't take a step back, pull yourself together and take a breath, your going to show everyone all you are is a fragile asshole sitting behind their computer trying to use big 'extrafragilisticexpialidocious' words to seem intelligent, and prove a point, which you fail at miserably.
No, what will happen is that no matter what I say, you'll claim I'm doing that if I disagree. But uh, sorry, that won't do anything. You can say whatever you want, I can't stop you, but that's not gonna make you right, and it's not gonna make people treat you like you're right. Your opinion is not equal. The playing field isn't level.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
Feel free to actually quote me instead of cop out and just reply to the thread knowing I won't get a notification. Grow up Shaddy.
I do that with everything, don't be a douche.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Wed May 22, 2019 5:58 pm

Just throwing this out there that if I was Vic and I learned that my lawyer was openly broadcasting the details of my case with some fuckass strip mall McLawyer on the open seas of Youtube, much less doing it in such a blatantly propagandist way, I would be absolutely furious and fire his ass into the sun.

Since there's no way Vic doesn't know that this is happening, it can only be assumed that he condones it, which makes him an inconceivable tool on top of an S-tier creep, and doesn't speak well toward any remote possibility of his innocence.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Wed May 22, 2019 9:00 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:09 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:33 pm
this is a messy situation, you have the youtubers who admit to wanting to troll and poke fun at the KickVics, and then you have the people on twitter baiting the StandWithVics.
And here is your problem, as well as everybody else's problem who are "only trying to be objective".

For the millionth time, the "shit show" you are referencing, all of that trivial extraneous social media garbage, has nothing to do with the actual core matter of Vic being accused by a score of unassociated parties over a score of years.

That straight fact leaves you with two options - either you believe these multiple accusers of the same man, or you don't. Guess which one makes you an #IStandWithVic'er?
That is exactly what I'm talking about, not everyone is telling the truth, based on what I've seen and read I have come to that conclusion, but I haven't written all of them off. I'm not repeating myself. You can see me as someone who stands with him if you want, tell me, someone commits a crime, then is accused of the same/slightly different crime by say 15 different other people, the main persons who accused him have won the case, and have proven the accused guilty, should the accused now be charged with extra punishments if 6 out of those 15 people aren't telling the truth? Vic should be punished with what he has done, but not punished with extra just because people posted a few stories, as it is, the pages have been taken down, just like how the facebook page was deleted. If you want justice, you are fair, you don't sentence someone to 50 years prison for rape then add on an extra 200 when randoms start accusing them of murder.

I am not denying that he was accused, I'm saying not all of them are telling the truth, most of them are telling the truth to some extent in my opinion. If you can't respect that, and want to tell me what opinion I should have, fine, but that's just illogical and it's not right.

I am allowed to take two sides opinions and choose which ones I want to agree with or disagree with, this black and white thinking is very dangerous.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:21 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
I've called the Vic supporters trolls and baiters that love pissing off the other side, but there are some people on the other side who do the same. I am neutral and I don't have anything to prove to you, judging by the way you are acting I'm going to assume your going through something right now in your life and you feel you have no outlet, so you go to the internet to blow steam.
Guess what though? Those "people on the other side"? They're still better! They're in the right, even if you don't like what they're doing. I may not like what they're doing. I'm certain plenty of supporters of the victims aren't even good people! But what Vic stans want is wrong. How they get there, even if what they were doing wasn't still worse than the victim's side, is irrelevant, because what their goal is bad. There isn't a person among them who isn't either misinformed, or acting on bad faith. They're not the people we should be tolerating.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
Staying neutral is easier for some of us for obvious reasons, but your so blinded by rage you can't see past anything, and you are accusing others of doing nothing, what exactly are we going to do? This is a discussion, how am I not allowed to share my thoughts? I am neutral, and I don't need to keep quiet in order for me to prove a point. Your not helping your cause. Your showing you can't argue and resort to absurd statements like that.
No, I've argued for a long time in this thread. Long enough that there isn't any mystery anymore. There's no room to circlejerk what some person "should have done" ten years ago when Vic groped them. You had your chance to actually be supportive and not disruptive, to treat the people in the right and the people in the wrong as what they are, but you won't. And I'm not obligated to respect that, and no matter how much you try to embrace this narrative of "civility is the only way", you're not going to bring anyone around because your response to a clear-cut problem of "this guy assaulted these women" is "but the women aren't being civil enough".
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
I'm not saying you can't criticize me, I'm just saying what I feel my opinion is, you have a sign nailed in your head saying "Disagree and your fucking wrong".
Opinions are not harmless. The guy who thinks "black people are savages and should be culled" also has an opinion. But guess what? That opinion is monstrous, dangerous, and evil. I'm not going to treat anyone who thinks that with respect, and you're not going to convince me that the conspiracy theorists treating Vic as an innocent boy targeted by fake evil SJWs are just as valid as the people he assaulted. Which is what you're doing. This isn't Kikuchi versus Faulconer, there are such things as right and wrong opinions in this situation, and treating Vic stans like their opinions are valid is a step away from being one of them. Paradox of tolerance, look it up.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
You have done nothing but smash your head against your keyboard this entire time, instead of talking normally like the others, how fucking selfish can you get?
How selfish can I get for speaking out against a victim-blaming goalpost-moving enlightened centrist who calls me an SJW just for not tolerating his shitty opinion? Hmm, not very much, I'd have to put more effort into it.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
You aren't helping the people who are suffering and have been hurt, your making a fool of them
Ah yes, this repeated point you've made that...has no basis in reality.

There is nothing I've said that weakens the argument of any of Vic's victims, or strengthens his support. Neither the defense nor the accused read this thread, only supporters of either side. I happen to treat the sides the way they should be treated, the people who are wrong are worse than the ones who are right. You on the other hand are constantly rationalizing this "both sides are the same" defense and trying to "stay neutral" while also blaming victims and saying the Vic stans "deserve a chance" to explain themselves. This thread has been around for months, they had their chance, but you cannot "respectfully" argue something as wrong as "dozens of unrelated women accusing one guy of groping them for fifteen years are all lying sluts", just like you can't respectfully argue "black people are savages".

This is the "sensitive liberals are why Trump won" defense. It's dismissing a person's attitude as a justification for supporting bad people by claiming you were "pushed the other way" by their rhetoric.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
this is no different to someone who stands up for what is 'right', then screams and yells when someone tries to speak, your coming across as a little pathetic angry cluster fuck of a human being, which I'm sure your not, but people seeing this may not have that kind of cognitive thinking.
Actually, it's completely different from that. You have been allowed to speak. So have I. You expressed a shitty opinion, I told you and the others why it was shitty. What you need to understand is that debating people with shitty ideas isn't about convincing them. It's about stemming the flow of misinformation and rationalization of shitty behavior.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
if you don't take a step back, pull yourself together and take a breath, your going to show everyone all you are is a fragile asshole sitting behind their computer trying to use big 'extrafragilisticexpialidocious' words to seem intelligent, and prove a point, which you fail at miserably.
No, what will happen is that no matter what I say, you'll claim I'm doing that if I disagree. But uh, sorry, that won't do anything. You can say whatever you want, I can't stop you, but that's not gonna make you right, and it's not gonna make people treat you like you're right. Your opinion is not equal. The playing field isn't level.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am
Feel free to actually quote me instead of cop out and just reply to the thread knowing I won't get a notification. Grow up Shaddy.
I do that with everything, don't be a douche.
Your putting words in my mouth, I was using the SJW thing as an example. When you disagree you talk in all CAPS, your just lose your temper, it's obvious, I'm not going to quote any of the crap you've mentioned above because most of it is you taking everything out of context. You can disagree with me, I'm fine with that, I'm not the one being hot headed and a douche.

I'm not saying both sides are bad, I'm looking at things the way I've seen them, the StandWithVic's believe they are doing right just as the KickVic's believe they are doing right, it's your opinion, the behavior of both sides are more or less been pretty consistent with what I've seen.

I never said they are lying sluts, that word doesn't come to mind when I think of this, the fact is not all are telling the truth, that is something I'm almost certain of, most I would say are. But there are different sides to a story, Vic hugged his fans, he got used to it, some people aren't comfortable with it, some things that have been said can be viewed through differently lenses, all your doing is looking at the worst possible situation for EVERYONE. Once more, I AM NOT saying that most of them aren't telling the truth and are lying "sluts", something you once again put in my mouth, I am saying that from what I've seen, some things have been a misunderstanding FROM the looks of it.

What makes you think that your opinion that one side is worse than the other is fact? This is your problem, you don't provide explanations, you scream and yell, you insult first then play victim card when it happens back. Good example of someone who likes to manipulate things so they seem in the right. I never wanted our conversation to be like this.

You can't stand it when other people want to take points of views from each side and pick which ones they agree with based on information they have seen. It's not black and white.

Your very manipulative, I'm not discussing this with you anymore, this is going nowhere since all you want to hear is what your thinking.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Wed May 22, 2019 9:21 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:30 am
Centrism is about making no changes, i.e. protecting the status quo from change. When your status quo is a right-wing positition that means centrism is...right-wing.

Fucking hell, y'all. We want Mic Vignogna removed from fandom spaces and his colleagues want him removed from the work spaces where he has committed his crimes, which is apparently nearly all of them. Hardly an unreasonable request given the fact that he's nearly a senior citizen and has had nearly thirty years of a window to learn from his mistakes. Fuck him, there's no reason to suck his dick.
Don't you fucking dare call me a right wing, the way you are looking and things are so black and white it's disgusting, I know for a fact Vic has done something wrong and I know he'll pay the price eventually, there are so many gray areas. Saying I am right wing over opinions I share from both sides is something extremists do, on both the right and left. If you want to talk shit and assume I am a right wing neo nazi, do as you fucking please, but don't reply to my comments. I'm sick of people like you assuming these things, how many times do I need to say I don't believe things are all black and white, I'm not going to say I believe everyone because I DON'T!! I believe Monica and some of the others, the people I don't believe are the ones like that boy and girl who came out and said he went really close and snatched the microphone out their hands aggressively and what not, I saw the video, it was a misunderstanding and yes, Vic should have been more aware of the two teens, but he was just trying to make it not so awkward, because that's how the interview was playing out.

Centrism is right wing...yeah...right, whatever you say, I'm sure it's all fact. Don't act like you know me just because of a stance I have, right wings manipulate people usually and don't say they are in the middle, I've seen it, some of them are very open about that. And usually they say they are center to troll people.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by mfwlegend3 » Wed May 22, 2019 9:22 pm

Please, for the love of god, condense all your quoting into a single post.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed May 22, 2019 11:15 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:00 pm
Cursed Lemon wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:09 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:33 pm
this is a messy situation, you have the youtubers who admit to wanting to troll and poke fun at the KickVics, and then you have the people on twitter baiting the StandWithVics.
And here is your problem, as well as everybody else's problem who are "only trying to be objective".

For the millionth time, the "shit show" you are referencing, all of that trivial extraneous social media garbage, has nothing to do with the actual core matter of Vic being accused by a score of unassociated parties over a score of years.

That straight fact leaves you with two options - either you believe these multiple accusers of the same man, or you don't. Guess which one makes you an #IStandWithVic'er?
That is exactly what I'm talking about, not everyone is telling the truth, based on what I've seen and read I have come to that conclusion, but I haven't written all of them off. I'm not repeating myself. You can see me as someone who stands with him if you want, tell me, someone commits a crime, then is accused of the same/slightly different crime by say 15 different other people, the main persons who accused him have won the case, and have proven the accused guilty, should the accused now be charged with extra punishments if 6 out of those 15 people aren't telling the truth? Vic should be punished with what he has done, but not punished with extra just because people posted a few stories, as it is, the pages have been taken down, just like how the facebook page was deleted. If you want justice, you are fair, you don't sentence someone to 50 years prison for rape then add on an extra 200 when randoms start accusing them of murder.

I am not denying that he was accused, I'm saying not all of them are telling the truth, most of them are telling the truth to some extent in my opinion. If you can't respect that, and want to tell me what opinion I should have, fine, but that's just illogical and it's not right.

I am allowed to take two sides opinions and choose which ones I want to agree with or disagree with, this black and white thinking is very dangerous.
He's not going to jail, at most he is going to be fired from his work and banned from conventions. That's all that the KickVic side is demanding. If you admit that most of the accusations are true, then isn't that a reasonable consequence?
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JulieYBM
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Wed May 22, 2019 11:21 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:21 pm
Don't you fucking dare call me a right wing, the way you are looking and things are so black and white it's disgusting, I know for a fact Vic has done something wrong and I know he'll pay the price eventually, there are so many gray areas. Saying I am right wing over opinions I share from both sides is something extremists do, on both the right and left. If you want to talk shit and assume I am a right wing neo nazi, do as you fucking please, but don't reply to my comments. I'm sick of people like you assuming these things, how many times do I need to say I don't believe things are all black and white, I'm not going to say I believe everyone because I DON'T!! I believe Monica and some of the others, the people I don't believe are the ones like that boy and girl who came out and said he went really close and snatched the microphone out their hands aggressively and what not, I saw the video, it was a misunderstanding and yes, Vic should have been more aware of the two teens, but he was just trying to make it not so awkward, because that's how the interview was playing out.

Centrism is right wing...yeah...right, whatever you say, I'm sure it's all fact. Don't act like you know me just because of a stance I have, right wings manipulate people usually and don't say they are in the middle, I've seen it, some of them are very open about that. And usually they say they are center to troll people.
I didn't call you right-wing, I said the centrist position was right-wing. I don't claim to know much of anything regarding your political stances and will allow you to continue to dig whatever holes ye please. Nevertheless, riddle me this Batman: in a world where the status quo is that women are actively having their rights stolen and oppressed by the patriarchy--both through the public and private sectors--what is the 'centrist' answer to resolving that issue if fighting back is the left-wing position and the oppressors are the right-wing? Milquetoast platitudes and clichés historically does not progression make.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed May 22, 2019 11:49 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:21 pm


I didn't call you right-wing, I said the centrist position was right-wing.
Hmm? By definition the centrism position is neither right wing or left.

I don’t know why people are trying to politicize this. You can be right wing and have the good sense to realize that Mignogna is a creep who needs to be barred from conventions and what not.

Pretty sure being against sexual harassment and having the common sense to realize if a bunch of women with no relation to each other have been saying the same thing for years then its gonna be true is not a left or right thing. It’s a human decency thing

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Thu May 23, 2019 1:01 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:49 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:21 pm


I didn't call you right-wing, I said the centrist position was right-wing.
Hmm? By definition the centrism position is neither right wing or left.

I don’t know why people are trying to politicize this. You can be right wing and have the good sense to realize that Mignogna is a creep who needs to be barred from conventions and what not.

Pretty sure being against sexual harassment and having the common sense to realize if a bunch of women with no relation to each other have been saying the same thing for years then its gonna be true is not a left or right thing. It’s a human decency thing
Because 'centrism' is just maintaining the already very corrupt, right-wing status quo of men getting away with oppressing women and other minorities and then having the gall to turn around and both-sides-ism them to death, as if they have a legitimate view.

I'd also argue one could call themselves 'right-wing' and not actually know their position on any given policy could be left-wing.
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Shaddy
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Thu May 23, 2019 1:28 am

DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Your putting words in my mouth, I was using the SJW thing as an example. When you disagree you talk in all CAPS, your just lose your temper, it's obvious, I'm not going to quote any of the crap you've mentioned above because most of it is you taking everything out of context. You can disagree with me, I'm fine with that, I'm not the one being hot headed and a douche.
Again you choose to criticize me for my language rather than anything meaningful. And either way, the point I was making was not that you were calling me an SJW, but that to do so would be wrong, whereas me calling you an enlightened centrist is actually right.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
I'm not saying both sides are bad, I'm looking at things the way I've seen them, the StandWithVic's believe they are doing right just as the KickVic's believe they are doing right, it's your opinion, the behavior of both sides are more or less been pretty consistent with what I've seen.
Except "what they think is right" is wrong. Their opinion is wrong! It is not an equally-valid perspective if you pay any attention to the evidence we have, how long the issue has persisted, or where it's coming from. Which, if you actually care whether the things you're saying are true, is a given. And really, I don't think it's even worth assuming that they believe themselves just. Plenty of them didn't even know who Vic was, many are not dragon ball or anime fans, and this is just pushing the "anti-SJW" agenda.

Their behavior also isn't the same. The amount of attacks and harassment victims and their supporters have received versus Vic and his stans isn't even comparable.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
the fact is not all are telling the truth, that is something I'm almost certain of, most I would say are.
Okay, that doesn't matter. If most are true, any supposed lies are irrelevant.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
I never said they are lying sluts
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Once more, I AM NOT saying that most of them aren't telling the truth and are lying "sluts", something you once again put in my mouth
I'm not saying you're saying all these things, but you're attempting to fight for an internet forum to tolerate the people who do. I can't see a reason you'd do that without, one some level, agreeing with them. You using a large amount of their rhetoric doesn't help.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
But there are different sides to a story, Vic hugged his fans, he got used to it, some people aren't comfortable with it, some things that have been said can be viewed through differently lenses, all your doing is looking at the worst possible situation for EVERYONE.
Vic has stated publicly on multiple occasions that he was aware of his behavior. In at least one or two cases he apologized directly, in another he said that he didn't think it was wrong. On no occasion has he changed that behavior.

More importantly, this doesn't seem to be a problem for really any other VAs for the most part? If someone wants to provide other examples of this happening that'd be great, but no other Funimation actor or actress has repeated counts of sexual harassment from this many people this consistently for so long, as far as I'm aware.

DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
What makes you think that your opinion that one side is worse than the other is fact? This is your problem, you don't provide explanations, you scream and yell, you insult first then play victim card when it happens back.
You are once again showing that you don't read the fucking thread despite trying to come off as the intellectual skeptic. I've talked about this countless times, and many have said it better than me. The nature of sexual assault crimes, the allegations against Vic, the photo and video we have, the testimony from con staff, fans, and co-workers, the lack of support from any of Vic's actual peers, and whatever evidence Funimation and Roosterteeth had on-hand that got him fired, there is a 0% chance that he's innocent.

But all Vic stans are dedicated to is proving that he's innocent. They make up this absurd idea of some kind of secret underground society of white-hating, man-hating women who lie about minor assault cases to destroy the careers of men (which, uh, they coulda picked a more famous and good-at-acting man than Vic, if this were true...) and will stop at nothing to oppress straight white dudes (usually their evidence for this is such broad nonsense as "people pushing for diversity in media" or "saying women should be equal to men"), it's a total fantasy. But this is what they actually believe! Or say they do, to avoid admitting they either support sexual assault or are complacent in it. That, or they're totally misinformed about the situation, and thus have no place discussing it online in the first place. It's a conspiracy theory in an attempt to not muddy the reputation of some screechy-voiced anime man. There is no defense of Vic that does not involve this theory. There is no "not believing" the allegations against him without the idea that the people making them are all dirty liars.

And...I don't think those people should be given a space to argue on Kanzenshuu. They aren't entitled to a platform, their position is inherently unjust. It's not just a competing opinion, their opinion is wrong. Factually, and morally.

Also I'm not "insulting first" unless you skipped like a hundred pages of people pulling this same shit. I'm not bothering with doing the long leadup into people acting stupid, I could see how this was gonna go from the start.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Good example of someone who likes to manipulate things so they seem in the right. I never wanted our conversation to be like this.
I'm not "manipulating" anything, I've been very clear from the start, and nothing I've said has changed. Anything you say is something you would have said from the start if nobody agreed with you, and that's basically what happened. You should have considered the idea that "centrism" only works on issues where both sides have a decent footing.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
You can't stand it when other people want to take points of views from each side and pick which ones they agree with based on information they have seen. It's not black and white.
You haven't provided really, any information you've seen? You've only critiqued the other side for things that don't actually determine whether they're right or wrong. The closest thing you had to this was the facebook thing, I said that that was likely not valid, and you did nothing to prove that.

Let me ask you: what are the points that Vic stans have that are actually valid? If you're so determined to pretend they're just as good as the kickvic side, what do they bring to the table?
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Your very manipulative, I'm not discussing this with you anymore, this is going nowhere since all you want to hear is what your thinking.
Still not "manipulative" in any way other than "he didn't say my shitty takes were valid". And I get this weird feeling that you're not actually going to stop discussing this. I'm certainly not.

"You only want to hear what you already believe" is applicable in just about every argument. The difference is that material truth actually exists, and you are using this to rebel against that.
JulieYBM wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:01 am
Because 'centrism' is just maintaining the already very corrupt, right-wing status quo of men getting away with oppressing women and other minorities and then having the gall to turn around and both-sides-ism them to death, as if they have a legitimate view.

I'd also argue one could call themselves 'right-wing' and not actually know their position on any given policy could be left-wing.
Technically actual centrism is more comparable to holding a very equal mix of right and left wing beliefs. A neutral position between right and left is being a moderate, and therefore usually pretty politically disengaged.

But most internet centrists just say they're in between right and left as a way to constantly critique the left while not actually saying they're right wing.

Also,
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:49 pm
I don’t know why people are trying to politicize this. You can be right wing and have the good sense to realize that Mignogna is a creep who needs to be barred from conventions and what not.
Simply put, the nature of things like say, a democrat putting the civil rights act into work, and poor behavior on the right simply being better tolerated by the right has, on some level, turned things like race and and oppression into partisan issues, when the difference between one side and the other is usually supposed to be one of capitalism versus democracy. And neither of those inherently oppress anyone for their race, gender, etc. but the history of the US has lead to capitalism becoming intertwined with those things anyway.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by miguelnuva1 » Thu May 23, 2019 4:29 am

Vic's original apology has he himself confirming something happened. What Vic should have done is ride his initial apology where he says that if something happened it was not his intent and he is sorry for hurting people, not flip flop to I did nothing wrong.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ZeroNeonix » Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am

People are still arguing about this? Vic is a two-face, nobody likes working with him, he doesn't respect boundaries, and he's had time to change and hasn't. Forget Vic. Let his career rest in pieces.

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