Vic Mignogna

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DragonBallFan
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Thu May 23, 2019 5:14 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:21 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:21 pm
Don't you fucking dare call me a right wing, the way you are looking and things are so black and white it's disgusting, I know for a fact Vic has done something wrong and I know he'll pay the price eventually, there are so many gray areas. Saying I am right wing over opinions I share from both sides is something extremists do, on both the right and left. If you want to talk shit and assume I am a right wing neo nazi, do as you fucking please, but don't reply to my comments. I'm sick of people like you assuming these things, how many times do I need to say I don't believe things are all black and white, I'm not going to say I believe everyone because I DON'T!! I believe Monica and some of the others, the people I don't believe are the ones like that boy and girl who came out and said he went really close and snatched the microphone out their hands aggressively and what not, I saw the video, it was a misunderstanding and yes, Vic should have been more aware of the two teens, but he was just trying to make it not so awkward, because that's how the interview was playing out.

Centrism is right wing...yeah...right, whatever you say, I'm sure it's all fact. Don't act like you know me just because of a stance I have, right wings manipulate people usually and don't say they are in the middle, I've seen it, some of them are very open about that. And usually they say they are center to troll people.
I didn't call you right-wing, I said the centrist position was right-wing. I don't claim to know much of anything regarding your political stances and will allow you to continue to dig whatever holes ye please. Nevertheless, riddle me this Batman: in a world where the status quo is that women are actively having their rights stolen and oppressed by the patriarchy--both through the public and private sectors--what is the 'centrist' answer to resolving that issue if fighting back is the left-wing position and the oppressors are the right-wing? Milquetoast platitudes and clichés historically does not progression make.
I didn't quote you on that one, it was someone else who said that if I'm not mistaken.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Thu May 23, 2019 5:16 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:15 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:00 pm
Cursed Lemon wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:09 am


And here is your problem, as well as everybody else's problem who are "only trying to be objective".

For the millionth time, the "shit show" you are referencing, all of that trivial extraneous social media garbage, has nothing to do with the actual core matter of Vic being accused by a score of unassociated parties over a score of years.

That straight fact leaves you with two options - either you believe these multiple accusers of the same man, or you don't. Guess which one makes you an #IStandWithVic'er?
That is exactly what I'm talking about, not everyone is telling the truth, based on what I've seen and read I have come to that conclusion, but I haven't written all of them off. I'm not repeating myself. You can see me as someone who stands with him if you want, tell me, someone commits a crime, then is accused of the same/slightly different crime by say 15 different other people, the main persons who accused him have won the case, and have proven the accused guilty, should the accused now be charged with extra punishments if 6 out of those 15 people aren't telling the truth? Vic should be punished with what he has done, but not punished with extra just because people posted a few stories, as it is, the pages have been taken down, just like how the facebook page was deleted. If you want justice, you are fair, you don't sentence someone to 50 years prison for rape then add on an extra 200 when randoms start accusing them of murder.

I am not denying that he was accused, I'm saying not all of them are telling the truth, most of them are telling the truth to some extent in my opinion. If you can't respect that, and want to tell me what opinion I should have, fine, but that's just illogical and it's not right.

I am allowed to take two sides opinions and choose which ones I want to agree with or disagree with, this black and white thinking is very dangerous.
He's not going to jail, at most he is going to be fired from his work and banned from conventions. That's all that the KickVic side is demanding. If you admit that most of the accusations are true, then isn't that a reasonable consequence?
The accusations are of him sexually harassing fans, right? I'm sure there was one more thing with that but anyhow if he's been doing it on and off for years now I feel like he deserves jail time, I'm not talking life in prison, but some jail time, come on, he didn't stop for ages!

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am

Shaddy wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:28 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Your putting words in my mouth, I was using the SJW thing as an example. When you disagree you talk in all CAPS, your just lose your temper, it's obvious, I'm not going to quote any of the crap you've mentioned above because most of it is you taking everything out of context. You can disagree with me, I'm fine with that, I'm not the one being hot headed and a douche.
Again you choose to criticize me for my language rather than anything meaningful. And either way, the point I was making was not that you were calling me an SJW, but that to do so would be wrong, whereas me calling you an enlightened centrist is actually right.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
I'm not saying both sides are bad, I'm looking at things the way I've seen them, the StandWithVic's believe they are doing right just as the KickVic's believe they are doing right, it's your opinion, the behavior of both sides are more or less been pretty consistent with what I've seen.
Except "what they think is right" is wrong. Their opinion is wrong! It is not an equally-valid perspective if you pay any attention to the evidence we have, how long the issue has persisted, or where it's coming from. Which, if you actually care whether the things you're saying are true, is a given. And really, I don't think it's even worth assuming that they believe themselves just. Plenty of them didn't even know who Vic was, many are not dragon ball or anime fans, and this is just pushing the "anti-SJW" agenda.

Their behavior also isn't the same. The amount of attacks and harassment victims and their supporters have received versus Vic and his stans isn't even comparable.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
the fact is not all are telling the truth, that is something I'm almost certain of, most I would say are.
Okay, that doesn't matter. If most are true, any supposed lies are irrelevant.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
I never said they are lying sluts
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Once more, I AM NOT saying that most of them aren't telling the truth and are lying "sluts", something you once again put in my mouth
I'm not saying you're saying all these things, but you're attempting to fight for an internet forum to tolerate the people who do. I can't see a reason you'd do that without, one some level, agreeing with them. You using a large amount of their rhetoric doesn't help.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
But there are different sides to a story, Vic hugged his fans, he got used to it, some people aren't comfortable with it, some things that have been said can be viewed through differently lenses, all your doing is looking at the worst possible situation for EVERYONE.
Vic has stated publicly on multiple occasions that he was aware of his behavior. In at least one or two cases he apologized directly, in another he said that he didn't think it was wrong. On no occasion has he changed that behavior.

More importantly, this doesn't seem to be a problem for really any other VAs for the most part? If someone wants to provide other examples of this happening that'd be great, but no other Funimation actor or actress has repeated counts of sexual harassment from this many people this consistently for so long, as far as I'm aware.

DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
What makes you think that your opinion that one side is worse than the other is fact? This is your problem, you don't provide explanations, you scream and yell, you insult first then play victim card when it happens back.
You are once again showing that you don't read the fucking thread despite trying to come off as the intellectual skeptic. I've talked about this countless times, and many have said it better than me. The nature of sexual assault crimes, the allegations against Vic, the photo and video we have, the testimony from con staff, fans, and co-workers, the lack of support from any of Vic's actual peers, and whatever evidence Funimation and Roosterteeth had on-hand that got him fired, there is a 0% chance that he's innocent.

But all Vic stans are dedicated to is proving that he's innocent. They make up this absurd idea of some kind of secret underground society of white-hating, man-hating women who lie about minor assault cases to destroy the careers of men (which, uh, they coulda picked a more famous and good-at-acting man than Vic, if this were true...) and will stop at nothing to oppress straight white dudes (usually their evidence for this is such broad nonsense as "people pushing for diversity in media" or "saying women should be equal to men"), it's a total fantasy. But this is what they actually believe! Or say they do, to avoid admitting they either support sexual assault or are complacent in it. That, or they're totally misinformed about the situation, and thus have no place discussing it online in the first place. It's a conspiracy theory in an attempt to not muddy the reputation of some screechy-voiced anime man. There is no defense of Vic that does not involve this theory. There is no "not believing" the allegations against him without the idea that the people making them are all dirty liars.

And...I don't think those people should be given a space to argue on Kanzenshuu. They aren't entitled to a platform, their position is inherently unjust. It's not just a competing opinion, their opinion is wrong. Factually, and morally.

Also I'm not "insulting first" unless you skipped like a hundred pages of people pulling this same shit. I'm not bothering with doing the long leadup into people acting stupid, I could see how this was gonna go from the start.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Good example of someone who likes to manipulate things so they seem in the right. I never wanted our conversation to be like this.
I'm not "manipulating" anything, I've been very clear from the start, and nothing I've said has changed. Anything you say is something you would have said from the start if nobody agreed with you, and that's basically what happened. You should have considered the idea that "centrism" only works on issues where both sides have a decent footing.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
You can't stand it when other people want to take points of views from each side and pick which ones they agree with based on information they have seen. It's not black and white.
You haven't provided really, any information you've seen? You've only critiqued the other side for things that don't actually determine whether they're right or wrong. The closest thing you had to this was the facebook thing, I said that that was likely not valid, and you did nothing to prove that.

Let me ask you: what are the points that Vic stans have that are actually valid? If you're so determined to pretend they're just as good as the kickvic side, what do they bring to the table?
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:12 pm
Your very manipulative, I'm not discussing this with you anymore, this is going nowhere since all you want to hear is what your thinking.
Still not "manipulative" in any way other than "he didn't say my shitty takes were valid". And I get this weird feeling that you're not actually going to stop discussing this. I'm certainly not.

"You only want to hear what you already believe" is applicable in just about every argument. The difference is that material truth actually exists, and you are using this to rebel against that.
JulieYBM wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:01 am
Because 'centrism' is just maintaining the already very corrupt, right-wing status quo of men getting away with oppressing women and other minorities and then having the gall to turn around and both-sides-ism them to death, as if they have a legitimate view.

I'd also argue one could call themselves 'right-wing' and not actually know their position on any given policy could be left-wing.
Technically actual centrism is more comparable to holding a very equal mix of right and left wing beliefs. A neutral position between right and left is being a moderate, and therefore usually pretty politically disengaged.

But most internet centrists just say they're in between right and left as a way to constantly critique the left while not actually saying they're right wing.

Also,
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:49 pm
I don’t know why people are trying to politicize this. You can be right wing and have the good sense to realize that Mignogna is a creep who needs to be barred from conventions and what not.
Simply put, the nature of things like say, a democrat putting the civil rights act into work, and poor behavior on the right simply being better tolerated by the right has, on some level, turned things like race and and oppression into partisan issues, when the difference between one side and the other is usually supposed to be one of capitalism versus democracy. And neither of those inherently oppress anyone for their race, gender, etc. but the history of the US has lead to capitalism becoming intertwined with those things anyway.
First of all, calling me an "enlightened centrist" was meant as a way to mock me.

Second, centrism can work in this case because if YOU'D have read the thread, you'd know that I haven't been following this for a couple months, I just came back to see what has been happening and I got a new opinion. My point is saying some aren't telling the truth is that he shouldn't be punished even more for a crime he didn't commit that many times, I am expecting him to serve jail time, and lots of crime cases are hard to prove, but from what I've read there should have been at least a few witnesses, especially for fans, and colleagues can back up each other up because they work with him. In a situation like this, multiple people have come out, more than that, there IS going to be evidence he did something, he definitely won't win this especially after that lawsuit asshole guy on youtube talking shit constantly.

I take views from both left and right, I don't stand with either side, I actually have a deep disliking for both extremists sides, don't even get me started on some of the shit that the right preaches.

I have critisised both sides, but more so the standwithvic, you are right, I've seen it, they are out of fucking control, and Vic isn't telling them to stop as far as I know.

As soon as I bring up these points of you being manipulative and agressive, you stop, and it's going to probably stay that way because you know it looks bad. You can't apply "you just want to hear what you want to hear" to every argument, or debate, because if you keep an open mind, which you haven't been doing, you weren't have tried to shove your opinion down everyone's throats.

I probably won't stop this discussion anytime soon, until I reach a breaking point where it's getting too much to argue with someone who is twisting things. It's clear to me now.

I gave my evidence, a simple search will show you that video of the facebook PM's, and the interview that those two teens were in. Give me the evidence where the facebook thing isn't valid, I want to see it, I want to see if I've missed anything. Not just that, the news networks twisting stories, the interview thing, I say this stuff because I want him to be punished rightfully, not wrongfully, just because some creep has done a lot of bad shit, doesn't mean they should be punished further for things that with video evidence were clearly not illegal. The other stuff though, he should serve jail time.

Once again, assuming this time that I'm fighting for people calling the accusers 'lying sluts', surely your not doing this subconsciously right? Because it doesn't take an idiot to see what your trying to do here, putting words in my mouth, now your saying I'm fighting for the pieces of shit who say that kind of stuff?

I haven't been following every little detail because it's getting bad for my mental health, I come back to it every so often, it doesn't help when your changing your attitude every time your called out for something. Even I was getting pissed off in my previous messages, but I tried my best to keep civil, once again, you argue that your swearing and aggro behaviour is justified because your right. You weren't proving much by being insulting to people, no wonder people want to keep quiet, they say one thing and you have this user who doesn't stop, you've even just admitted to it. Draining people to the point they don't want to participate in conversation anymore is wrong unless they started this whole aggressiveness towards you, I came back here thinking it would have calmed down, apparently I was wrong. The same person from a few months ago is here somehow still manipulating everything.

Are your posts going to remain this passive aggressive? Or are you going to turn back to aggressive when the current people your arguing with leave and new users come in the join the discussion?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu May 23, 2019 10:00 am

DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:00 pm
That is exactly what I'm talking about, not everyone is telling the truth, based on what I've seen and read I have come to that conclusion
Buddy

What the fuck did I just say
Me wrote:For the millionth time, the "shit show" you are referencing, all of that trivial extraneous social media garbage, has nothing to do with the actual core matter of Vic being accused by a score of unassociated parties over a score of years.
You don't know jack shit about who is telling the truth in these matters. Neither do I. What I do know is that nobody gets accused of sexual misconduct by a couple dozen unassociated people over a long stretch of time while being innocent.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Thu May 23, 2019 3:45 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
First of all, calling me an "enlightened centrist" was meant as a way to mock me.
It was a way of mocking you while also describing what you believe. I call the Vic stans conspiracy theorists because the idea that he's innocent is a conspiracy theory, but also because it's insulting to them.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Second, centrism can work in this case because if YOU'D have read the thread, you'd know that I haven't been following this for a couple months, I just came back to see what has been happening and I got a new opinion.
Your opinion isn't any different, though. You're still spreading the victim-blaming hate-tolerating whataboutism nonsense that you were before. And y'know, it's on you to figure out if something you believe has actually been shown to be a crap philosophy. I know you haven't been around. That doesn't make you waltzing in here to say we should be nicer to the opposition okay.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
My point is saying some aren't telling the truth is that he shouldn't be punished even more for a crime he didn't commit that many times, I am expecting him to serve jail time, and lots of crime cases are hard to prove, but from what I've read there should have been at least a few witnesses, especially for fans, and colleagues can back up each other up because they work with him. In a situation like this, multiple people have come out, more than that, there IS going to be evidence he did something, he definitely won't win this especially after that lawsuit asshole guy on youtube talking shit constantly.
Why dance around "some of them might be/are probably lying" if you believe enough of them aren't for it not to matter? More importantly, if you believe him guilty by way of logical deduction, evidence and other factors, why do you think those denying that, and offering basically no proper evidence of their own, should be given the benefit of the doubt? All they'd do is try to find ways to drum up support for Vic that aren't actual facts, and uh...no, you shouldn't want that.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
As soon as I bring up these points of you being manipulative and agressive, you stop, and it's going to probably stay that way because you know it looks bad.
No I haven't??? I'm the same now as I've been the whole time. "Manipulative" is just the label you've been circlejerking around as a way to pretend you don't have to listen to the things I'm saying. When I say things you don't like, I'm manipulative, when I say things you do, I'm not. The only deciding factor is you, and you've left a pretty bad impression, so of course I'm not going to fucking treat your label with respect.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
You can't apply "you just want to hear what you want to hear" to every argument, or debate, because if you keep an open mind, which you haven't been doing, you weren't have tried to shove your opinion down everyone's throats.
You are saying we should listen to people with no concept of the situation or the nature of the laws, people and world surrounding it. It's like saying ignoring a flat-earther is close-minded. Open-mindedness is almost always a counter to bigotry, ignorance, and hatred. But the ignorant, hateful bigots are the ones who you say we should be open to.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
I probably won't stop this discussion anytime soon, until I reach a breaking point where it's getting too much to argue with someone who is twisting things. It's clear to me now.
This is what, the third time you've said that and you still haven't. I'm not "twisting" anything beyond explaining why the things you're saying are bad. You are constantly playing the "won't listen to reason" thing while offering no proper reasoning yourself. At least I'm just being ornery, you were one step away from calling me a virtue signaler before, and have repeatedly dodged questions about why the things you're saying should be taken seriously.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
I gave my evidence, a simple search will show you that video of the facebook PM's, and the interview that those two teens were in. Give me the evidence where the facebook thing isn't valid, I want to see it, I want to see if I've missed anything.
I already told you the facebook shit was irrelevant even if it were legit (and it probably isn't). Regardless, it still doesn't answer the question of what makes Vic stans so worth listening to. Most of them don't even bring that up anymore, and either way it shouldn't logically affect the truckloads of other people's accusations unless you're an idiot.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Not just that, the news networks twisting stories, the interview thing, I say this stuff because I want him to be punished rightfully, not wrongfully, just because some creep has done a lot of bad shit, doesn't mean they should be punished further for things that with video evidence were clearly not illegal. The other stuff though, he should serve jail time.
"The news networks twisting stories" refers to Anime News Network using an image of Vic Mignogna with a young woman as an example of his behavior. Said person later came out and said she was okay with it. That means nothing when the image was never evidence to a supposed crime, it was an example of him being overly handsy, which it still shows perfectly well.

More importantly, I said so many times now that Vic's actions are not bad enough to land him in jail, nor was thatwhat anyone was pushing for. He was fired from his job, and that was what we wanted. Saying "oh but what about this flimsy thing that says he might not have done things to one of the people" has basically no effect. Why do you keep bringing up these supposed "holes" in the story if you think he's guilty, especially if you think he should be put in JAIL for it? You would want to be using everything you could get and ignoring anything that didn't help you. Firing a man and jailing him are two MONUMENTALLY different levels of effort and skill.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Once again, assuming this time that I'm fighting for people calling the accusers 'lying sluts', surely your not doing this subconsciously right? Because it doesn't take an idiot to see what your trying to do here, putting words in my mouth, now your saying I'm fighting for the pieces of shit who say that kind of stuff?
Well no, because you are literally saying we should give Vic supporters a fairer chance and be nicer to them. That is what you said when you came in here. I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm stating the things you're literally doing and you're mad at me for it. There is no supporting Vic without disbelief in the accusations, and the idea that "they're all liars". That is what every single person supporting Vic believes, the only difference is whether they believe it out of naivety or malice. It doesn't matter how "civil" they act, it's not a belief that should be tolerated.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
I haven't been following every little detail because it's getting bad for my mental health, I come back to it every so often, it doesn't help when your changing your attitude every time your called out for something.
I have changed nothing about my attitude. I have been in the position of "Vic is guilty, his supporters think he's innocent, that's a wrong thing to believe, we shouldn't give them a platform to say it, nor do we need to be nice to them" from the start. You are again projecting things onto me to find an excuse to not take what I'm saying seriously.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Even I was getting pissed off in my previous messages, but I tried my best to keep civil, once again, you argue that your swearing and aggro behaviour is justified because your right.
Constantly appealing to "civility" to justify complacency in a shitty ideal is a path toward failure. You can't score points for saying you tried to be 'civil' (you were actually still incredibly condescending, by the way) because that civility was in service of something bad. It is bad to give Vic supporters a platform here.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
You weren't proving much by being insulting to people, no wonder people want to keep quiet, they say one thing and you have this user who doesn't stop, you've even just admitted to it.
Because guess what? Their opinion IS NOT VALID. It is a bad opinion, and believing in it, and tolerating that belief, sets a bad precedent. Of course I'm not going to give them a fucking inch.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Draining people to the point they don't want to participate in conversation anymore is wrong unless they started this whole aggressiveness towards you, I came back here thinking it would have calmed down, apparently I was wrong. The same person from a few months ago is here somehow still manipulating everything.
I'm not "manipulating" anything, again. You're just using that to justify why you can't change my mind. More importantly, not giving the opposition an inch is not wrong. Civility matters when a subject is debatable, when it's subjective, when it's trivial. You yourself have agreed that Vic is pretty objectively guilty. Playing nice? That's what kept him from getting fired for this long. Rial talked to him personally, I'm sure plenty of people reported his behavior, he was banned from several cons, but it didn't fix the problem. And tolerance of the idiots defending him (well, along with possibly capitalistic greed) is what got him reinvited to Kamehacon, causing serious issues for all of the people who were set to go thinking he wouldn't be there, a mere TWO WEEKS before it happened. There isn't a solution to this problem that involves just being nice.

I'm not a fucking mastermind. I'm some 20 year-old douche who works a lame retail job. I didn't "force" you into the position you're in. You chose to repeat the Vic stans' rhetoric, to blame victims for "not going to the authorities", to say the people calling them liars are worth hearing. I disagreed. I've been disagreeing with everyone who says that, because I believe that to be wrong. You aren't special.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Are your posts going to remain this passive aggressive? Or are you going to turn back to aggressive when the current people your arguing with leave and new users come in the join the discussion?
See, you seem to think I care if people think I'm grouchy. I don't. This is what I actually BELIEVE. I act according to my beliefs, and I really don't care that much about my own language, provided there's still a point. Anyone can choose what they believe. And, I believe that when someone believes something shitty like "all the accusers are liars", we shouldn't be obligated to allow them on the forum, to show them respect, to treat that opinion is valid. If they don't like that, they can either change their beliefs, go somewhere else, or shut the fuck up about it. Kanzenshuu is not the free marketplace of ideas.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am

Shaddy wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:45 pm
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
First of all, calling me an "enlightened centrist" was meant as a way to mock me.
It was a way of mocking you while also describing what you believe. I call the Vic stans conspiracy theorists because the idea that he's innocent is a conspiracy theory, but also because it's insulting to them.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Second, centrism can work in this case because if YOU'D have read the thread, you'd know that I haven't been following this for a couple months, I just came back to see what has been happening and I got a new opinion.
Your opinion isn't any different, though. You're still spreading the victim-blaming hate-tolerating whataboutism nonsense that you were before. And y'know, it's on you to figure out if something you believe has actually been shown to be a crap philosophy. I know you haven't been around. That doesn't make you waltzing in here to say we should be nicer to the opposition okay.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
My point is saying some aren't telling the truth is that he shouldn't be punished even more for a crime he didn't commit that many times, I am expecting him to serve jail time, and lots of crime cases are hard to prove, but from what I've read there should have been at least a few witnesses, especially for fans, and colleagues can back up each other up because they work with him. In a situation like this, multiple people have come out, more than that, there IS going to be evidence he did something, he definitely won't win this especially after that lawsuit asshole guy on youtube talking shit constantly.
Why dance around "some of them might be/are probably lying" if you believe enough of them aren't for it not to matter? More importantly, if you believe him guilty by way of logical deduction, evidence and other factors, why do you think those denying that, and offering basically no proper evidence of their own, should be given the benefit of the doubt? All they'd do is try to find ways to drum up support for Vic that aren't actual facts, and uh...no, you shouldn't want that.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
As soon as I bring up these points of you being manipulative and agressive, you stop, and it's going to probably stay that way because you know it looks bad.
No I haven't??? I'm the same now as I've been the whole time. "Manipulative" is just the label you've been circlejerking around as a way to pretend you don't have to listen to the things I'm saying. When I say things you don't like, I'm manipulative, when I say things you do, I'm not. The only deciding factor is you, and you've left a pretty bad impression, so of course I'm not going to fucking treat your label with respect.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
You can't apply "you just want to hear what you want to hear" to every argument, or debate, because if you keep an open mind, which you haven't been doing, you weren't have tried to shove your opinion down everyone's throats.
You are saying we should listen to people with no concept of the situation or the nature of the laws, people and world surrounding it. It's like saying ignoring a flat-earther is close-minded. Open-mindedness is almost always a counter to bigotry, ignorance, and hatred. But the ignorant, hateful bigots are the ones who you say we should be open to.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
I probably won't stop this discussion anytime soon, until I reach a breaking point where it's getting too much to argue with someone who is twisting things. It's clear to me now.
This is what, the third time you've said that and you still haven't. I'm not "twisting" anything beyond explaining why the things you're saying are bad. You are constantly playing the "won't listen to reason" thing while offering no proper reasoning yourself. At least I'm just being ornery, you were one step away from calling me a virtue signaler before, and have repeatedly dodged questions about why the things you're saying should be taken seriously.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
I gave my evidence, a simple search will show you that video of the facebook PM's, and the interview that those two teens were in. Give me the evidence where the facebook thing isn't valid, I want to see it, I want to see if I've missed anything.
I already told you the facebook shit was irrelevant even if it were legit (and it probably isn't). Regardless, it still doesn't answer the question of what makes Vic stans so worth listening to. Most of them don't even bring that up anymore, and either way it shouldn't logically affect the truckloads of other people's accusations unless you're an idiot.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Not just that, the news networks twisting stories, the interview thing, I say this stuff because I want him to be punished rightfully, not wrongfully, just because some creep has done a lot of bad shit, doesn't mean they should be punished further for things that with video evidence were clearly not illegal. The other stuff though, he should serve jail time.
"The news networks twisting stories" refers to Anime News Network using an image of Vic Mignogna with a young woman as an example of his behavior. Said person later came out and said she was okay with it. That means nothing when the image was never evidence to a supposed crime, it was an example of him being overly handsy, which it still shows perfectly well.

More importantly, I said so many times now that Vic's actions are not bad enough to land him in jail, nor was thatwhat anyone was pushing for. He was fired from his job, and that was what we wanted. Saying "oh but what about this flimsy thing that says he might not have done things to one of the people" has basically no effect. Why do you keep bringing up these supposed "holes" in the story if you think he's guilty, especially if you think he should be put in JAIL for it? You would want to be using everything you could get and ignoring anything that didn't help you. Firing a man and jailing him are two MONUMENTALLY different levels of effort and skill.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Once again, assuming this time that I'm fighting for people calling the accusers 'lying sluts', surely your not doing this subconsciously right? Because it doesn't take an idiot to see what your trying to do here, putting words in my mouth, now your saying I'm fighting for the pieces of shit who say that kind of stuff?
Well no, because you are literally saying we should give Vic supporters a fairer chance and be nicer to them. That is what you said when you came in here. I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm stating the things you're literally doing and you're mad at me for it. There is no supporting Vic without disbelief in the accusations, and the idea that "they're all liars". That is what every single person supporting Vic believes, the only difference is whether they believe it out of naivety or malice. It doesn't matter how "civil" they act, it's not a belief that should be tolerated.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
I haven't been following every little detail because it's getting bad for my mental health, I come back to it every so often, it doesn't help when your changing your attitude every time your called out for something.
I have changed nothing about my attitude. I have been in the position of "Vic is guilty, his supporters think he's innocent, that's a wrong thing to believe, we shouldn't give them a platform to say it, nor do we need to be nice to them" from the start. You are again projecting things onto me to find an excuse to not take what I'm saying seriously.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Even I was getting pissed off in my previous messages, but I tried my best to keep civil, once again, you argue that your swearing and aggro behaviour is justified because your right.
Constantly appealing to "civility" to justify complacency in a shitty ideal is a path toward failure. You can't score points for saying you tried to be 'civil' (you were actually still incredibly condescending, by the way) because that civility was in service of something bad. It is bad to give Vic supporters a platform here.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
You weren't proving much by being insulting to people, no wonder people want to keep quiet, they say one thing and you have this user who doesn't stop, you've even just admitted to it.
Because guess what? Their opinion IS NOT VALID. It is a bad opinion, and believing in it, and tolerating that belief, sets a bad precedent. Of course I'm not going to give them a fucking inch.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Draining people to the point they don't want to participate in conversation anymore is wrong unless they started this whole aggressiveness towards you, I came back here thinking it would have calmed down, apparently I was wrong. The same person from a few months ago is here somehow still manipulating everything.
I'm not "manipulating" anything, again. You're just using that to justify why you can't change my mind. More importantly, not giving the opposition an inch is not wrong. Civility matters when a subject is debatable, when it's subjective, when it's trivial. You yourself have agreed that Vic is pretty objectively guilty. Playing nice? That's what kept him from getting fired for this long. Rial talked to him personally, I'm sure plenty of people reported his behavior, he was banned from several cons, but it didn't fix the problem. And tolerance of the idiots defending him (well, along with possibly capitalistic greed) is what got him reinvited to Kamehacon, causing serious issues for all of the people who were set to go thinking he wouldn't be there, a mere TWO WEEKS before it happened. There isn't a solution to this problem that involves just being nice.

I'm not a fucking mastermind. I'm some 20 year-old douche who works a lame retail job. I didn't "force" you into the position you're in. You chose to repeat the Vic stans' rhetoric, to blame victims for "not going to the authorities", to say the people calling them liars are worth hearing. I disagreed. I've been disagreeing with everyone who says that, because I believe that to be wrong. You aren't special.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:43 am
Are your posts going to remain this passive aggressive? Or are you going to turn back to aggressive when the current people your arguing with leave and new users come in the join the discussion?
See, you seem to think I care if people think I'm grouchy. I don't. This is what I actually BELIEVE. I act according to my beliefs, and I really don't care that much about my own language, provided there's still a point. Anyone can choose what they believe. And, I believe that when someone believes something shitty like "all the accusers are liars", we shouldn't be obligated to allow them on the forum, to show them respect, to treat that opinion is valid. If they don't like that, they can either change their beliefs, go somewhere else, or shut the fuck up about it. Kanzenshuu is not the free marketplace of ideas.
You proved my points.

I was doing a bit more research the other day and found that the facebook page was proven to be fake, assuming everything is fake is so fucking idiotic, in this case, there was evidence! You never made any points except for multiple people came out therefore he's guilty of everything! Which I agree to some degree, but if you get off your lazy ass and open up a web page without pissing yourself and throwing a tantrum, you'd be able to say "It is fake, it's been proven" instead of "it's probably fake". Once again, you and I seem to have different moral views, he should be punished for what seems most likely, obviously give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm more alluding to people like those two teens where there is a video that you can clearly see he wasn't doing anything malicious.

No matter what you say, there will be fucking evidence, it's retarded to say there won't be and this will be a difficult case, have you seen those two fucks on youtube? The lawyer and the beard lawyer? Who the fuck lets their lawyer go on a youtube channel to act so unprofessionally and talk shit to the opposing side, Vic's not winning anytime soon.

Either way, we have more or less the same ideas and beliefs, I don't see a reason to be arguing, though I just want to say something..

Aww Shaddy, your not just a lame 20 yr old douche with a lame retail job, your a pathetic lame 20 yr old douche with a lame retail job that has trouble expressing their feelings, if it makes you feel better, I'm a 19 yr who smells like cologne and lives in a 6 story house, I own six cars and then woke up one day and they were all gone, see? We aren't that different honey bunny.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Fri May 24, 2019 12:20 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:00 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:00 pm
That is exactly what I'm talking about, not everyone is telling the truth, based on what I've seen and read I have come to that conclusion
Buddy

What the fuck did I just say
Me wrote:For the millionth time, the "shit show" you are referencing, all of that trivial extraneous social media garbage, has nothing to do with the actual core matter of Vic being accused by a score of unassociated parties over a score of years.
You don't know jack shit about who is telling the truth in these matters. Neither do I. What I do know is that nobody gets accused of sexual misconduct by a couple dozen unassociated people over a long stretch of time while being innocent.
I know what you fucking said Limón maldito, I heard you loud and clear, but we are seeing things through different lenses here.

The facebook page was proven to be fake.

He'll get what's coming for him.

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Shaddy
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Fri May 24, 2019 1:00 am

DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
You proved my points.
You would be saying this no matter how I responded.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
I was doing a bit more research the other day and found that the facebook page was proven to be fake, assuming everything is fake is so fucking idiotic, in this case, there was evidence!
You haven't provided any of this evidence, only shouted "I don't need to educate you" on a thread you yourself refuse to be educated on.

More importantly, the point was never whether it is or isn't, it was always that it doesn't matter. It doesn't effect the allegations, it doesn't effect that Vic's stans have no proper leg to stand on. After all, that stuff all came about after the kickvic business started, but again, this has been going on for years and nobody's been able to bring any argument to it beyond "persecuted for being a white christian man, because they're so oppressed you see".
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Which I agree to some degree, but if you get off your lazy ass and open up a web page without pissing yourself and throwing a tantrum, you'd be able to say "It is fake, it's been proven" instead of "it's probably fake".
Because I'm not going to do your fucking work for you. YOU were the one who brought it up, I was never making much discussion out of it, the onus is on you to check whether the things you're saying are true, especially when you value "playing the skeptic" with no further evidence and I did exactly to you what you've been doing this entire time. The difference is that I didn't base my argument around that in the first place. It takes up a very minor piece of my responses this whole time, and it doesn't effect the core, which is that people whom we know believe something wrong and cannot argue in good faith while believing it don't deserve to be treated equally by the forum. It's not a democratic government, it's a privately owned website about a children's cartoon.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Once again, you and I seem to have different moral views, he should be punished for what seems most likely, obviously give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm more alluding to people like those two teens where there is a video that you can clearly see he wasn't doing anything malicious.
Not sure what you mean by this. I'm not sure whether my "morals" have an approximation of the appropriate punishment for a dude groping women at conventions versus, say, Scott Freeman, the former Funi VA who can fucking rot in a cell. What I'm saying is that legally, Vic isn't going to prison. Nobody has brought him to court on these charges, nor did they ever intend to.

But any number of people okay with his behavior will not do anything to the number of people that aren't. Bill Cosby interacted with women without drugging and raping them, but that means nothing to the bunch that he did, nor would it if it was only a single person. And those women are still no argument for saying that the person in question is innocent, just not guilty of actions against those specific people.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
No matter what you say, there will be fucking evidence, it's retarded to say there won't be and this will be a difficult case, have you seen those two fucks on youtube? The lawyer and the beard lawyer? Who the fuck lets their lawyer go on a youtube channel to act so unprofessionally and talk shit to the opposing side, Vic's not winning anytime soon.
I'm not even sure what you're saying here. I don't think Vic's likely to win the defamation suit but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stem the flow of misinformation and pretzel logic pushed by his idiot supporters. Not allowing them on these forums is one way of doing that.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Either way, we have more or less the same ideas and beliefs, I don't see a reason to be arguing, though I just want to say something..
Well no, we don't have the same ideas, because the disagreement was over you saying we should give Vic supporters a chance, and me saying we shouldn't.

DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Aww Shaddy, your not just a lame 20 yr old douche with a lame retail job, your a pathetic lame 20 yr old douche with a lame retail job that has trouble expressing their feelings, if it makes you feel better, I'm a 19 yr who smells like cologne and lives in a 6 story house, I own six cars and then woke up one day and they were all gone, see? We aren't that different honey bunny.
Okay fuck off with this bullshit, I have been extremely clear with my opinion from the first fucking response I gave you. Support of Vic is, excluding naive and disengaged people who don't know the situation, inherently believing in a conspiracy theory about secret societies of evil women and minorities fabricating sexual assault claims. I don't think those people should be treated as valid on this forum. You have given me no good reason why they should, just a lot of rhetoric, whataboutism, and misdirection.
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DragonBallFan » Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am

Shaddy wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:00 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
You proved my points.
You would be saying this no matter how I responded.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
I was doing a bit more research the other day and found that the facebook page was proven to be fake, assuming everything is fake is so fucking idiotic, in this case, there was evidence!
You haven't provided any of this evidence, only shouted "I don't need to educate you" on a thread you yourself refuse to be educated on.

More importantly, the point was never whether it is or isn't, it was always that it doesn't matter. It doesn't effect the allegations, it doesn't effect that Vic's stans have no proper leg to stand on. After all, that stuff all came about after the kickvic business started, but again, this has been going on for years and nobody's been able to bring any argument to it beyond "persecuted for being a white christian man, because they're so oppressed you see".
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Which I agree to some degree, but if you get off your lazy ass and open up a web page without pissing yourself and throwing a tantrum, you'd be able to say "It is fake, it's been proven" instead of "it's probably fake".
Because I'm not going to do your fucking work for you. YOU were the one who brought it up, I was never making much discussion out of it, the onus is on you to check whether the things you're saying are true, especially when you value "playing the skeptic" with no further evidence and I did exactly to you what you've been doing this entire time. The difference is that I didn't base my argument around that in the first place. It takes up a very minor piece of my responses this whole time, and it doesn't effect the core, which is that people whom we know believe something wrong and cannot argue in good faith while believing it don't deserve to be treated equally by the forum. It's not a democratic government, it's a privately owned website about a children's cartoon.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Once again, you and I seem to have different moral views, he should be punished for what seems most likely, obviously give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm more alluding to people like those two teens where there is a video that you can clearly see he wasn't doing anything malicious.
Not sure what you mean by this. I'm not sure whether my "morals" have an approximation of the appropriate punishment for a dude groping women at conventions versus, say, Scott Freeman, the former Funi VA who can fucking rot in a cell. What I'm saying is that legally, Vic isn't going to prison. Nobody has brought him to court on these charges, nor did they ever intend to.

But any number of people okay with his behavior will not do anything to the number of people that aren't. Bill Cosby interacted with women without drugging and raping them, but that means nothing to the bunch that he did, nor would it if it was only a single person. And those women are still no argument for saying that the person in question is innocent, just not guilty of actions against those specific people.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
No matter what you say, there will be fucking evidence, it's retarded to say there won't be and this will be a difficult case, have you seen those two fucks on youtube? The lawyer and the beard lawyer? Who the fuck lets their lawyer go on a youtube channel to act so unprofessionally and talk shit to the opposing side, Vic's not winning anytime soon.
I'm not even sure what you're saying here. I don't think Vic's likely to win the defamation suit but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stem the flow of misinformation and pretzel logic pushed by his idiot supporters. Not allowing them on these forums is one way of doing that.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Either way, we have more or less the same ideas and beliefs, I don't see a reason to be arguing, though I just want to say something..
Well no, we don't have the same ideas, because the disagreement was over you saying we should give Vic supporters a chance, and me saying we shouldn't.

DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:15 am
Aww Shaddy, your not just a lame 20 yr old douche with a lame retail job, your a pathetic lame 20 yr old douche with a lame retail job that has trouble expressing their feelings, if it makes you feel better, I'm a 19 yr who smells like cologne and lives in a 6 story house, I own six cars and then woke up one day and they were all gone, see? We aren't that different honey bunny.
Okay fuck off with this bullshit, I have been extremely clear with my opinion from the first fucking response I gave you. Support of Vic is, excluding naive and disengaged people who don't know the situation, inherently believing in a conspiracy theory about secret societies of evil women and minorities fabricating sexual assault claims. I don't think those people should be treated as valid on this forum. You have given me no good reason why they should, just a lot of rhetoric, whataboutism, and misdirection.
I won't fuck off, I'll keep going as long as you spew shit out your mouth, you haven't given any good reasons either, and I have PROOF. Saying you won't "do my research" for me is just you being a lazy fuckwit who just wants to hypocritically push their 'whataboutism' and 'misdirection', your still twisting my words and being manipulative, pretty fucking good for someone who considers themselves a "lame douchebag". This whole people believing in women in secret societies that hate men is fucking crap that you've pulled right out of your backside. Believe it or not, YOUR PLAYING YOURSELF!!! The only person who think that there's a underground organisation full of evil women is you!!! Only it's not women, it's full of MEN.

I never said I should give Vic supporters a chance you dipshit, your still putting words in my mouth, if you'd actually get your head out your ass and write something without the intent of toying and fucking with peoples words, then I wouldn't have said you'd have proven my point.

Vic should go to prison for what he's done, I can't fucking believe this was allowed to go on for years, that 2011 video of Sean and Sonny making fun of him easily shows they probably knew something was up, morals do mean something to some extent in what you think should happen to him, not every judge is going to treat the situation the same, just think for 3 fucking seconds, I'm not going to think FOR you. If he's sexually harassed people for this fucking long you DO serve jail time, a simple google search will tell you that, obviously there are tons of fucking variables in these situations, each state is also different for consequences I believe. People have him in a good spot, they can fucking get justice, to sit back and let him go free is HORSE SHIT! People like him don't learn! I've come across people like that before!


Your an extremist who won't look at the big picture, even though you preach that others should. There IS going to be evidence like I've said before, more than enough, you don't need to just take the word from everyone now that most peoples accounts have been proved to be true, you still need to look at their story instead of say, "Yep, your right", your so fucking self righteous it's disgusting and honestly frightening. Your right, we don't see things that similar;

Shaddy: Manipulative, Hypocritical, lazy and only wants to start flame wars(which is fine with me, pleb)

DragonBallFan: Got some things wrong. Changed opinions depending on information. A enlightened centrist according to Shad-fuck over here in the corner.

Hey, let me say this though, we do have something in common, we don't feel some users should be treated validly on this forum, especially if WE think they are in the wrong.

So I'm going to do what your doing, and scream in your face until you piss off, chasing people away is the way to go eh? Naive fucking 20 yr old with the mind of a low functioning mutt that can't tell the difference between intelligently getting their point across with communication skills and just barking their fucking head off until they pass out.

Your just making it more difficult for Monica and the others, do yourself a favor, go to sleep, do some mediation, see a doctor, just do anything you can to get that fist out your ass, then come back and talk. Or not, either's fine with me, it's quite sad seeing someone like you here, but it's oddly amusing as well. Maybe because your trying really hard to shrug off my claims that your manipulative while proving me right when you try to combat something I've said.

oh, and yeah, you shouted "it's probably fake", that doesn't prove your case, instead of being lazy and sitting here arguing your own one-sided opinions, put into action what you preach.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Mr.Saturn99 » Fri May 24, 2019 12:12 pm

Welp, that was some self-destruction if I ever saw any.

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Shaddy
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Fri May 24, 2019 3:31 pm

DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
I won't fuck off, I'll keep going as long as you spew shit out your mouth, you haven't given any good reasons either, and I have PROOF. Saying you won't "do my research" for me is just you being a lazy fuckwit who just wants to hypocritically push their 'whataboutism' and 'misdirection', your still twisting my words and being manipulative, pretty fucking good for someone who considers themselves a "lame douchebag".
Well but you see, the difference is that I'm actually not doing that. I have not said "but what about all the REAL people falsely accused of sexual assault? you don't seem to are about them". I have not changed the subject constantly while trying to do anything but answer the question of "why shouldn't we treat Vic stans like their opinion is valid", I've been very up-front with my answer to that.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
This whole people believing in women in secret societies that hate men is fucking crap that you've pulled right out of your backside. Believe it or not, YOUR PLAYING YOURSELF!!! The only person who think that there's a underground organisation full of evil women is you!!! Only it's not women, it's full of MEN.
Um, no? There are people, right now, on twitter, youtube, reddit and dozens of other sites, that will stop at nothing to tell you that Vic was accused because white men are victims and the SJWs ruin everything. I have no idea what your goal in this insane "no u" response is, but I can say that it's really funny, so thanks for that.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
I never said I should give Vic supporters a chance you dipshit, your still putting words in my mouth, if you'd actually get your head out your ass and write something without the intent of toying and fucking with peoples words, then I wouldn't have said you'd have proven my point.
Well but you have though. I've repeatedly made it clear that we shouldn't allow Vic stans here because what they believe is unjustifiably wrong, and you have made a point of it to disagree with me from the start, offering nothing but complaints about my behavior and horrible rhetorical decisions of your own, which gets us nowhere. The only solution to a bad idea is a better idea. However bad you may perceive me to be, you have only taken less care to keep yourself from looking foolish as this has gone along, rather than more. You were so focused on believing "civility" was the key to everything that the moment you can't play the card your argument completely falls apart.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
Vic should go to prison for what he's done, I can't fucking believe this was allowed to go on for years, that 2011 video of Sean and Sonny making fun of him easily shows they probably knew something was up, morals do mean something to some extent in what you think should happen to him, not every judge is going to treat the situation the same, just think for 3 fucking seconds, I'm not going to think FOR you. If he's sexually harassed people for this fucking long you DO serve jail time, a simple google search will tell you that, obviously there are tons of fucking variables in these situations, each state is also different for consequences I believe. People have him in a good spot, they can fucking get justice, to sit back and let him go free is HORSE SHIT! People like him don't learn! I've come across people like that before!
I'm going to use the phrase "statute of limitations" here, followed by "nobody has actually pressed charges".
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
Your an extremist who won't look at the big picture, even though you preach that others should. There IS going to be evidence like I've said before, more than enough, you don't need to just take the word from everyone now that most peoples accounts have been proved to be true, you still need to look at their story instead of say, "Yep, your right", your so fucking self righteous it's disgusting and honestly frightening.
I never said we shouldn't take all the evidence we should get? I said being needlessly skeptical and shit-stirring by taking something Vic stans push (very rarely in your case) and going "see? they might have a point" like it's all an argument in good faith, which it isn't. I didn't say "believe all women", I said that the number of people's testimony, those people's relation to each other and Vic, and the time they've been substantiated over, is in itself a form of evidence beyond reasonable doubt. That really means nothing in relation to other evidence, there isn't only one thing we can use. I'm also not an extremist?

Literally the most "extreme" opinion I've had here is not tolerating the intolerant, and that's really not a super destructive thing to believe, it's how we keep Neo-Nazis out of our coffee shops and homophobes out of our churches. Failure to live up to this and pushing everything onto the first ammendment despite it only being a *federal law* is what is currently allowing the hate group calling themselves Alt-Right to gain power.

Now obviously Vic stans aren't on the same scale (there is some overlap though), but it's the same principle. They have a ridiculous (and let's be honest, misogynistic) belief that all women saying any man they like assaulted them are just lying SJWs targeting the "oppressed" straight white christian man. That's the starting point, there is no active Vic supporter who does not either believe this. I say we shouldn't allow them here, on this community where bigotry isn't tolerated. What is so wrong with that?
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
Your right, we don't see things that similar;

Shaddy: Manipulative, Hypocritical, lazy and only wants to start flame wars(which is fine with me, pleb)

DragonBallFan: Got some things wrong. Changed opinions depending on information. A enlightened centrist according to Shad-fuck over here in the corner.
There's no "hypocrisy" or "manipulation" here other than what you've been continuously projecting onto me here. And yes, I am going to keep calling you an enlightened centrist, because no matter how much you say you don't support Vic, you are still arguing for the rights of people who do.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
Your just making it more difficult for Monica and the others, do yourself a favor, go to sleep, do some mediation, see a doctor, just do anything you can to get that fist out your ass, then come back and talk. Or not, either's fine with me, it's quite sad seeing someone like you here, but it's oddly amusing as well. Maybe because your trying really hard to shrug off my claims that your manipulative while proving me right when you try to combat something I've said.
You have done nothing to show how this is true. By any reasonable account, this forum has NO EFFECT on the situation one way or the other, but quelling misinformation and assholery has an effect on this forum.

Also, if I'm "proving you right" so much, how come you can't actually show that? What have I actually said that's manipulative?
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
oh, and yeah, you shouted "it's probably fake", that doesn't prove your case, instead of being lazy and sitting here arguing your own one-sided opinions, put into action what you preach.
Because my case was never that it was fake. That was a minor obstacle in the reasoning of "Vic stans have nothing to stand on", a piece in the reasoning of "we shouldn't be tolerating Vic stans here". Whether it was real or not didn't actually change that "Vic is innocent" is a completely conspiratorial and flimsy take, if not a malicious one.
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 am
So I'm going to do what your doing, and scream in your face until you piss off, chasing people away is the way to go eh? Naive fucking 20 yr old with the mind of a low functioning mutt that can't tell the difference between intelligently getting their point across with communication skills and just barking their fucking head off until they pass out.
The entire thread has "intelligently gotten their point across with communication skills" like forty fucking times. That's why I keep telling you to read the thread. Whenever pressed, Vic stans do not listen to reason. The faux-stans who claim to be centrist but constantly argue in Vic's favor act exactly the same way. There are people whose beliefs on certain subjects mean their minds will never be changed.

And if their minds can be changed? They almost certainly are not going to stride in here saying "eat THIS, chucklefucks. no evidence, twitter drama, marzgurl said something one time, sean banned me so that means he's in on it, Jamie Marchi, why only now, police". That's not how a skeptic, moderate, or undecided person talks. I've seen the past almost-200 pages of this thread, and "arguing reasonably" doesn't work. They either get themselves banned or fuck off to a different thread every single time. Even before I started majorly participating in discussion.

Hell, I'm hardly even the best-qualified to talk about all this stuff. Seeing as you've been temp banned, why don't you take some time to look at Kunzait's posts in this thread? His are usually longer than mine, constantly provide links to information and studies that support the things he's saying, and absolutely fucking wrecked everyone he's talking to, with or without being "civil". He does that on every thread actually, and has brought his hammer down on me on more trivial subjects more than once.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Mr.Saturn99 » Sat May 25, 2019 12:15 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 3:31 pm
Um, no? There are people, right now, on twitter, youtube, reddit and dozens of other sites, that will stop at nothing to tell you that Vic was accused because white men are victims and the SJWs ruin everything. I have no idea what your goal in this insane "no u" response is, but I can say that it's really funny, so thanks for that.
"you neurotic, self righteous sleazebag" was my personal favorite.
Hell, I'm hardly even the best-qualified to talk about all this stuff. Seeing as you've been temp banned, why don't you take some time to look at Kunzait's posts in this thread? His are usually longer than mine, constantly provide links to information and studies that support the things he's saying, and absolutely fucking wrecked everyone he's talking to, with or without being "civil". He does that on every thread actually, and has brought his hammer down on me on more trivial subjects more than once.
I miss his contributions here; I can only imagine the never-ending deluge of "guys I don't support vic BUT" wore him down. We've had maybe four or five faux-centrists this month alone.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kataphrut » Sat May 25, 2019 7:59 pm

Apparently someone crashed a Jamie Marchi panel at a convention asking why she sold out Vic and had to be dragged out screaming by security. We're getting to Pizzagate levels of deluded conspiracy theory here.

This is your reminder that this garbage will never go away no matter the outcome of the lawsuit because anime fans are trash.

And your additional reminder that anyone still clinging to "the truth will out" is deluded because the case isn't about justice, it's about whether or not Vic deserves a payout. Justice made its decision months ago when Funimation, Rooster Teeth and a number of conventions collectively said "we ain't working with a pervert any more."

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Sat May 25, 2019 9:39 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:59 pm
Apparently someone crashed a Jamie Marchi panel at a convention asking why she sold out Vic and had to be dragged out screaming by security. We're getting to Pizzagate levels of deluded conspiracy theory here.

This is your reminder that this garbage will never go away no matter the outcome of the lawsuit because anime fans are trash.

And your additional reminder that anyone still clinging to "the truth will out" is deluded because the case isn't about justice, it's about whether or not Vic deserves a payout. Justice made its decision months ago when Funimation, Rooster Teeth and a number of conventions collectively said "we ain't working with a pervert any more."
It's looking like a similar thing happened at a panel with Monica as well. Urgh.

And you know the most annoying/disgusting part? A lot of Vic's supporters are claiming that this doesn't count as harassment or disruption, but I guaran-goddamn-tee you that, if someone went to a Vic panel and did the same thing, then they'd call it the very things they're denying this to be. And that is in no way an endorsement for someone to do that. Do not sink to these same people's levels, people. It is not worth it.

But yeah, sadly I think you're right. Things will eventually calm down at least somewhat (because the sort of people who are doing this will eventually find some other 'noble cause' to which to throw their attention), and eventually things will get to a point where they're much more peaceful than they are now. But it's never going away entirely. Any time a show that Vic was in gets re-released, or even just gets a new project announced, it's going to kick up a little bit. Every time a role he was in gets re-cast, it's going to come back up even more so. It's always going to be there, lurking in the background.

On a separate note, even though that's probably the wrong way for it to happen, all things considered, the actions of Vic's fans are almost getting to me worse than the man himself at this point. I'm usually one that's able to separate the art from the artist pretty well. I didn't get to see DBS: Broly until after this whole debacle had started, and I was still able to watch it dubbed without it bothering me too much. But now, just the other night, my MP3 player brought up one of Vic's songs, and I just wasn't able to bring myself to listen to it. Maybe it was something to do with the hypocrisy of it all too though, given that the song was religious enough in nature, and I think we can all call BS on any of his moral standings just on the cheating alone, much less his other crimes.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat May 25, 2019 9:55 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 9:39 pm
And you know the most annoying/disgusting part? A lot of Vic's supporters are claiming that this doesn't count as harassment or disruption, but I guaran-goddamn-tee you that, if someone went to a Vic panel and did the same thing, then they'd call it the very things they're denying this to be. And that is in no way an endorsement for someone to do that. Do not sink to these same people's levels, people. It is not worth it.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Bryesque » Sat May 25, 2019 11:36 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:59 pm
Apparently someone crashed a Jamie Marchi panel at a convention asking why she sold out Vic and had to be dragged out screaming by security. We're getting to Pizzagate levels of deluded conspiracy theory here.
...which, if anything, tells more convention organizers that Mignogna and his fans are proven liabilities and not worth having around. And the convention circuit is probably Mignogna's main remaining revenue stream at this point. So good job protecting your hero, VicStans! (And good riddance.)

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by sintzu » Sun May 26, 2019 4:48 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 9:55 pm
Welcome to the right-wing playbook.
Both the right and left act like this. They may say different things on camera but when they don't get their way they act exactly the same.
Kataphrut wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:59 pm
Apparently someone crashed a Jamie Marchi panel at a convention asking why she sold out Vic and had to be dragged out screaming by security. We're getting to Pizzagate levels of deluded conspiracy theory here.

This is your reminder that this garbage will never go away no matter the outcome of the lawsuit because anime fans are trash.
This kind of behavior makes EVERYONE look bad. It makes anime fans look bad, it makes comic fans look bad, it makes video game fans look bad, etc. Screaming in public like that is the last thing someone should do to get their point across as not only does it destroy their credibility, it destroys the credibility of what they're fighting for.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sun May 26, 2019 4:53 am

Did I just get both-sides'd again
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Bryesque » Sun May 26, 2019 9:36 am

sintzu wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 4:48 am
Kataphrut wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:59 pm
Apparently someone crashed a Jamie Marchi panel at a convention asking why she sold out Vic and had to be dragged out screaming by security. We're getting to Pizzagate levels of deluded conspiracy theory here.

This is your reminder that this garbage will never go away no matter the outcome of the lawsuit because anime fans are trash.
This kind of behavior makes EVERYONE look bad. It makes anime fans look bad, it makes comic fans look bad, it makes video game fans look bad, etc. Screaming in public like that is the last thing someone should do to get their point across as not only does it destroy their credibility, it destroys the credibility of what they're fighting for.
I'm pretty sure it just makes the lunatic disrupting the panel (and the group he's a part of) look bad, in fact.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by sintzu » Sun May 26, 2019 11:18 am

Bryesque wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:36 am
I'm pretty sure it just makes the lunatic disrupting the panel (and the group he's a part of) look bad, in fact.
That applies to people who are familiar with things like you and me. If someone isn't part of the, games, etc. anime community and that's what they see then chances are they're going to think everyone is like that.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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