"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

[AzuraRacon]

Good news is, when I contacted Funi’s support about the UI episode, they seemed to confirm the home video sets will not have this frame drop issue

They dodged my other question about Ultimate Battle though

[AzuraRacon]

Y’all are right though this framedropping is both awful and inconsistent

There are reused shots that are framedropped one time and regular the next

[UltraPrimus22]

Alright, a couple of general dub and Toomai related notations from Twitter:

• After some time, Jason DeMarco (Toonami's co-creator and producer) is now aware of the bizarre, frame-rate edited copies of Super the station's been receiving since Episode 110. He claims that he'll be looking into the matter with the incoming distribution.
• Rawly Pickens (Super's ADR Director/Engineer) was also made aware about the copies. As a side note, a week ago he stated that his booth review for handling Ep.110 had the original Japanese Ultimate Battle track (Speculation: Presumingly it was a place holder at the time until the dubbed version was ready). Pickens makes it clear that he had no control over that matter, but will look into it).
• On May 23rd, 2019, Dawn M. Bennett and Elizabeth Maxwell finished their recordings for the rest of the series (notably Ep.116). Similarly, on May 30th, Sean Schemmel recorded his lines for Ep.116 based on his booth picture.

[GTx10]

Two questions where the US Dub broadcast "debut of UI" episodes connected and extended or were they separated and cut down? The next question will the Home video release have the connected, extended version of these episodes. This is far more important than frame rate dropping and a few Dub errors.

[UltraPrimus22]

Two questions where the US Dub broadcast "debut of UI" episodes connected and extended or were they separated and cut down? The next question will the Home video release have the connected, extended version of these episodes. This is far more important than frame rate dropping and a few Dub errors.

Toonami's Episodes 109 and 110 were aired on separate Saturdays (May 4 and 11 respectively), so it's the alternate cut made for reruns and Crunchyroll, rather than the full 44-minute episode from the initial broadcast and Funimation's simulcast.

The Japanese home releases do include both the edited and full one-hour specials. Part 8 of the Funimation home releases (July) will go up to Episode 104, while Part 9 will mostly include episodes 109 and 110 in a similar manner to the Japanese release.

[SuperSaiyanPan]

Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.

[TheNingen]

Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-yowAAiDZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vQ0U49Zr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_EruUsrc0w

[Freeza Soldier #156]

Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-yowAAiDZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vQ0U49Zr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_EruUsrc0w

That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.

[TheNingen]

Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-yowAAiDZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vQ0U49Zr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_EruUsrc0w

That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.

Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.

[Scsigs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-yowAAiDZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vQ0U49Zr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_EruUsrc0w

That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.

Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.

Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.

[SuperSaiyanPan]

A mod posted a thread on the DBZ sub with a clip of the frame drops, holy fucking shit man. Yeah I didn't see all that, I'd be furious too if I were you all. Good news is Toonami execs are addressing this issue.

[UltraPrimus22]

Okay, so right before Episode 114 debuts tomorrow, DeMarco finally released an update on the situation.

• The slowdowns were done on the broadcaster's end (so Toonami/Adult Swim/Turner in this case). As some people may have figured, DeMarco cites the infamous "Pokemon Shock" incident to explain the current "Harding Test" standards broadcasters must abide by.
• Developed by Cambridge Research Systems Ltd, the "Harding Test" is an internationally used, mandated video analysis software test that combs through footage to pick up potential causes for photosensitive epilepsy (ex: really fast motion, flashing effects, etc).
  If one scene fails the automated test, the broadcaster has to alter the footage through any means (ex: ghosting, dimming, or reducing frame rates) and try again until they're perfectly clear.
• For context: Back on August 8th, 2018, Adult Swim had to pull a music video (Aphex Twin’s Collapse) precisely because it didn't meet the Harding Test standards. That 5-minute segment had to an online exclusive.
• DeMarco further adds the program editors had reduced the affected scenes featured in Episodes 110-113 to 4fps. The editors do this kind of thing routinely, so they didn't inform the higher-ups at the time. From now on, if a scene does fail the Harding Test, they will be reduced by 2fps (which they claim is an improvement). This is the best they can do in this situation.

[Ajay]

This is the best they can do in this situation.

For what it's worth, I don't really agree with this assessment. Japan has to adhere to those standards too, and Fuji TV dealt with this like any other channel does: dimming and ghosting. It looks significantly better than absolutely gutting the frame rate down to single digits.

Here's how Fuji handled it - https://streamable.com/zc5fc

Here's Toonami - https://streamable.com/0an52

Blu-ray for comparison - https://streamable.com/7wrea

It's just a really bizarre way of tackling the mandates, and while it's true that additional standards beyond the Harding test vary from channel to channel, there's no indication that Toonami had any sort of excessive rules on top of what's legally required.

they will be reduced by 2fps (which they claim is an improvement).

For clarity, it's not reducing the original frame rate by 2fps, but reducing it down to 2fps, instead of the previous one frame per second.

[TheBlackPaladin]

For what it's worth, I don't really agree with this assessment. Japan has to adhere to those standards too, and Fuji TV dealt with this like any other channel does: dimming and ghosting. It looks significantly better than absolutely gutting the frame rate down to single digits.

Here's how Fuji handled it - https://streamable.com/zc5fc

Here's Toonami - https://streamable.com/0an52

Blu-ray for comparison - https://streamable.com/7wrea

I know virtually nothing about video editing, so I offer my apologies in advance if this is a stupid question with an obvious answer. That said, how labor-intensive is it to dim and ghost footage as opposed to cutting down the frame rate? I'm essentially trying to understand if ghosting and dimming a video requires more time and precision than just slowing the frame rate down.

[Ajay]

I know virtually nothing about video editing, so I offer my apologies in advance if this is a stupid question with an obvious answer. That said, how labor-intensive is it to dim and ghost footage as opposed to cutting down the frame rate? I'm essentially trying to understand if ghosting and dimming a video requires more time and precision than just slowing the frame rate down.

Not intensive, at all. Pretty much two drag and drop filters and you're done.

I'm not even joking when I say I think I'd have an easier time doing that than cutting down the FPS in those scenes.

[TheNingen]

That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.

Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.

Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.

Sorry that you have issues with things other people have problems with. I didn't know I had to appeal to your standards or views of quality in order to win a sarcastic retort. I'm so so sorry to have disappointed you.

[Scsigs]

Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.

Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.

Sorry that you have issues with things other people have problems with. I didn't know I had to appeal to your standards or views of quality in order to win a sarcastic retort. I'm so so sorry to have disappointed you.

You're misunderstanding my words. I've seen people bring up legit arguments as to not watch the dub. The framerate of the TV broadcast is not a valid excuse to stop watching the dub. That's something you can bring up with not watching the Toonami broadcast because it's a legitimate complaint, but it's not a valid excuse to just drop the dub. You can watch the fan edits of the BR rips edited to have the dub's audio or wait for the home media releases, my guy. You're overreacting.

[Wilderness]

Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.

Sorry that you have issues with things other people have problems with. I didn't know I had to appeal to your standards or views of quality in order to win a sarcastic retort. I'm so so sorry to have disappointed you.

You're misunderstanding my words. I've seen people bring up legit arguments as to not watch the dub. The framerate of the TV broadcast is not a valid excuse to stop watching the dub. That's something you can bring up with not watching the Toonami broadcast because it's a legitimate complaint, but it's not a valid excuse to just drop the dub. You can watch the fan edits of the BR rips edited to have the dub's audio or wait for the home media releases, my guy. You're overreacting.

I didn't see TheNingen mention it was the sole reason why they've stopped watching the dub. It could easily be the straw that broke the camels back.

Also, it is not up to you to decide if it's a 'valid excuse' or not whether someone wants to end their viewing of the dub. Overreacting or not, this user is fully justified to be put off by this particular moment and not wish to dabble in the dub any further.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I know virtually nothing about video editing, so I offer my apologies in advance if this is a stupid question with an obvious answer. That said, how labor-intensive is it to dim and ghost footage as opposed to cutting down the frame rate? I'm essentially trying to understand if ghosting and dimming a video requires more time and precision than just slowing the frame rate down.

Not intensive, at all. Pretty much two drag and drop filters and you're done.

I'm not even joking when I say I think I'd have an easier time doing that than cutting down the FPS in those scenes.

Huh. Well that makes Toonami's decision to cut the frame rate all the more confusing, then. Makes me wonder why they didn't go the dim-and-ghost route, since it looks better (or rather, doesn't look as bad) compared to cutting the frame rate, and is easier.

[Scsigs]

I didn't see TheNingen mention it was the sole reason why they've stopped watching the dub. It could easily be the straw that broke the camels back.

Also, it is not up to you to decide if it's a 'valid excuse' or not whether someone wants to end their viewing of the dub. Overreacting or not, this user is fully justified to be put off by this particular moment and not wish to dabble in the dub any further.

I mean, I thought of that too. If it's that situation, I guess I can understand a bit better, but I don't think anyone would take "low framerate on the TV broadcast" as a legitimate, valid, or actually serious reason as to outright stop watching the dub of this show. I understand if that person wanted to stop watching the TV broadcast, since it's a legit problem with it, but that's not actually a dub problem, it's a broadcast problem. It's like the person was looking for a reason to drop the dub than anything, which it is a bad reason.