Would General Blue be considered offensive to the LGBTQ+ community in this day and age?

[Hellspawn28]

I don't think so because it seems like Toriyama was trying to do anything hurtful or using General Blue to poke fun at gay people. With fiction, you can't always take thing 100% serious.

[ABED]

No, she asked for actual left winged people to create more content in Hollywood. You’re twisting her words around. She’s not asking creators to be forced to do it she’s asking for more creators who would do it to get involved.

Because Hollywood lacks left-wing content creators?

If anything, there is money to be made by being more inclusive, but I think Hollywood is slow in realizing it.

[WittyUsername]

Since we’re talking about Hollywood needing to be more inclusive, I guess it’s worth pointing out that a big reason why you still don’t see much LGBT representation in big blockbusters is because foreign markets like China don’t take kindly to that kind of stuff. There was a big uproar in foreign markets over the remake of Beauty and the Beast making LeFou gay, even though all that amounted to was a brief scene of him dancing with a man in drag. Oh sure, Avengers: Endgame had a brief scene where Joe Russo was talking about his relationship with another man, but stuff like that is easy to dub over, and that was literally the only scene that Russo’s character was in the film for.

Anyway, on to the subject of General Blue, I do think his portrayal in the anime is a fascinating example of Japan’s unusual relationship with homosexuality. On the one hand, Japan, despite having a reputation as this ultra conservative and rigid nation, seems to have traditionally been more open about depicting homosexuality in children’s entertainment than the west, and from what I understand, homosexuality has never been explicitly illegal over there, or at least not as long as it’s been in places like America and England. On the other hand, there’s clearly a certain stigma regarding gay people in Japan, especially given that the Japanese government apparently still doesn’t recognize same sex marriage, and if General Blue’s portrayal in the anime is any indication, people in Japan have some of the same stereotypes that people in the west have.

[MyVisionity]

No, she asked for actual left winged people to create more content in Hollywood. You’re twisting her words around. She’s not asking creators to be forced to do it she’s asking for more creators who would do it to get involved.

Because Hollywood lacks left-wing content creators?

I think the point was that the so-called left-wing creators in Hollywood are mostly "wealthy elites" whose brand of liberalism is out of touch with the ordinary person's consciousness.

[JulieYBM]

No, she asked for actual left winged people to create more content in Hollywood. You’re twisting her words around. She’s not asking creators to be forced to do it she’s asking for more creators who would do it to get involved.

Because Hollywood lacks left-wing content creators?

I think the point was that the so-called left-wing creators in Hollywood are mostly "wealthy elites" whose brand of liberalism is out of touch with the ordinary person's consciousness.

It's Hollywood, a cesspool of capitalists who would suck a cock for an extra penny. Whatever gains are made by queer folk in Hollywood is predicated upon whether or not the elites can make money off of it.

No, she asked for actual left winged people to create more content in Hollywood. You’re twisting her words around. She’s not asking creators to be forced to do it she’s asking for more creators who would do it to get involved.

Yeah. I want left-wing folk to make new projects, not censor other people's works. The problem we face here is that we live in a flawed society where the cheques are cut by conservatives.

[sintzu]

The problem we face here is that we live in a flawed society where the cheques are cut by conservatives.

This has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal, it's all about the $$$. Look at Superman, he can't get a 2nd movie because his first one didn't make as much as they wanted, despite it being profitable. Hollywood is a business, and businesses live and die by what they make. If a product makes $$$ they'll make more of it, and if it doesn't they'll move on to something else.

[SaiyamanMS]

So, General Blue. As a lesbian trans woman I don’t understand the appeal of either being a man or being attracted to one, making me possibly the furthest thing from a gay man. However as a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I don’t think there’s any issue with Blue as portrayed in the manga, sure he’s a little stereotypical in his gayness, but there’s no negative connotations to him being gay. (Unless you want to go reading into “The gay is the villain!”, which isn’t an issue as far as I’m concerned because his villainy isn’t connected to his sexuality.)

The anime filler on the other hand... the Obotchaman scene where he’s implied to be a pedophile is simply vile and disgusting. Homosexuality and pedophilia are completely unrelated and implying as much is a clear attempt at smearing our reputation.

[ABED]

Because Hollywood lacks left-wing content creators?

I think the point was that the so-called left-wing creators in Hollywood are mostly "wealthy elites" whose brand of liberalism is out of touch with the ordinary person's consciousness.

It's Hollywood, a cesspool of capitalists who would suck a cock for an extra penny. Whatever gains are made by queer folk in Hollywood is predicated upon whether or not the elites can make money off of it.

No, she asked for actual left winged people to create more content in Hollywood. You’re twisting her words around. She’s not asking creators to be forced to do it she’s asking for more creators who would do it to get involved.

Yeah. I want left-wing folk to make new projects, not censor other people's works. The problem we face here is that we live in a flawed society where the cheques are cut by conservatives.

You are SO ignorant about who makes up the bulk of Hollywood. They are neither Capitalist nor are they conservative. They are overwhelmingly to the left. No, not even studio owners are conservative. I don't think the politics of the execs, producers, or creatives are the issue as much as the general public - i.e., the audience they are hoping to appeal to.

I do think Hollywood is out of step with the general public. The success of Black Panther shows there is an underserved market. What the hell else explains the success of Tyler Perry? Women are also underserved, hence why Twilight was so popular. Why they are out of step is a mystery to me, but I know it has nothing to do with their politics.

[MasenkoHA]

You are SO ignorant about who makes up the bulk of Hollywood. They are neither Capitalist
[/quote]

You’re kidding right?

[ABED]

You’re kidding right?

They're "capitalist" in they own the capital, but they aren't Capitalist in that they don't believe in free markets.

Anyway, a good argument could be made that many (but not all) in the LGBTQ+ community wouldn't find the Blue from the manga to be offensive. The Blue of the anime is absolutely offensive.

[sailorspazz]

For the time it was written, Blue's manga appearance was pretty decent for portraying an LGBT character. Though his speech patterns in Japanese are quite effeminate (often using the feminine sentence ending 'wa'), which is a bit of an unfortunate stereotype. But for the most part, he was taken seriously as a character and wasn't just there so they could make gags about his sexuality. For a shounen manga in the 80s, he's probably one of the least offensive examples. I would hope that in the modern day creators don't lean so heavily on using feminine speech as a signifier for male characters being gay, but I can't think of examples off the top of my head where I can point to that stereotype falling out of use.

As practically everyone has said, Blue being turned into a pedophile in the anime is incredibly offensive and based on homophobic views that try to demonize LGBT people. It's not just offensive now, but it was back then too, even if there were more people who believed it. Though damaging stereotypes like this are definitely near the top of the list for being offensive, any sort of stereotyping is not ideal. Like the example of using feminine speech, of course there are some gay men that speak that way, but using that as a shortcut to let the audience know, "oh, he's gay" is still pretty backwards. Really, the only "tipoff" of a character's sexuality should be them showing/stating a preference, not because they talk/dress/act a certain way. Of course, this goes far beyond just LGBT portrayals, and in fact affects all types of people being reduced down to stereotypes in media.

As for Japan itself and LGBT issues, even though the country has a history of accepted same-sex relationships (such as samurai and their wards), the difference from the west is that the prohibition was never religious, but societal. They were free to go off and mess around with other men, but in the end they were still expected to fulfill their societal duties of getting married and having children, not stay in a same-sex relationship long term. In the modern day, though, it's not like that. LGBT people in Japan want to form long lasting bonds with each other, but society still wants them to "get over" that and just settle down and pop out babies. I think the declining population rate makes the government especially slow to legitimize same-sex unions (though there are a few select areas of Japan where civil unions can be done, they're still not afforded the same rights as a married couple). Some Westerners first looking at Japanese media and seeing more LGBT characters than they'd expect may make it seem progressive at first glance, but in reality those portrayals don't reflect what's really going on in their society.

[JulieYBM]

Honey, have you seen the breaking of unions and poor wages in Hollywood? Hollywood won't call us a tranny fag but they sure as hell won't pay us enough money to live despite working for a multi-billion dollar company.

Like, LOL, ever notice all the cock-sucking Hollywood does for the US military and police? They get paid to do that. The projects are only topical if they can avoid mentioning the problems we face are all linked to poor pay and political sabotage of the working-class.

[ABED]

That's a priori logic.

Hollywood is overwhelmingly to the left, but I would be willing to bet those in charge are mostly straight white men. Not only that, but for decades the biggest audience was young straight white males. Hollywood was laser focused on them because they brought in a shit ton of money. This issue has nothing to do with political affiliation.

I truly believe mass audiences are open to inclusivity and better representation of minorities. The creators and money men are likely open as well, but don't know how to write it because it's not their experience. Being blind to other peoples' experiences and perspectives isn't limited to any particular political party.

[dbzj14]

Please for the love of god, please I am begging each and every one of you, STOP bringing 2019 woke victim culture and politics into dragon ball! It’s a damn anime and manga. Let people enjoy it for what it is and stop ruining it!

[Kunzait_83]

Please for the love of god, please I am begging each and every one of you, STOP bringing 2019 woke victim culture and politics into dragon ball! It’s a damn anime and manga. Let people enjoy it for what it is and stop ruining it!

Sounds to me like someone's triggered and wants themselves a safe space. Who's the one that's participating in "victim culture" here again exactly?

Dragon Ball - as well as anime and manga, video games, movies, TV, comic books, book-books, etc and any form of pop culture media in general - aren't a fucking shield to insulate you from the real world.

Whether you like it or not, you don't live in an empty vacuum: you live in a world where there exist billions of other living, breathing people alongside you, all of them with their own unique identities, quirks, and with their own thoughts, perspectives, and problems: and whether you like it or not, you're GOING to have to be exposed to them. For good or ill, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you.

Don't like that? Tough shit. Its literally impossible to be fully 100% insulated from all of society itself, shy of either becoming an isolated hermit in the middle of a desert or forest, or killing oneself.*

*Note: I do not in any way endorse the latter.

If the realities of the world and the issues facing it bother you so, SO much that you're able to get twisted out of shape by merely glimpsing a fucking thread on a message board about a gay character in a Japanese children's comic/cartoon from more than 30 years ago, then what you're looking for isn't a place to have any kind of real discussion about anything (including an anime/manga, which yes, contains some gay characters and some social stereotypes): what you're looking for is a bubble to hide from humanity inside of.

Dragon Ball isn't that bubble, and neither is a forum like this one. Absolutely nothing - including Dragon Ball and whatever your other precious Shonen anime/manga of choice happen to be - is in any way 100% free of reflections and references to various aspects of the the realities of the world in which we live: and part and parcel of talking about ANY work of art across ANY medium is engaging with those aspects of the real world that are reflected (however skewed) within these works.

Once again I'll reiterate: if this fundamentally bothers you, if anything that has any connection or association to issues prevalent in the real world even TANGENTIALLY is enough to trigger you and make you offended... then you're not looking to have any kind of a real discussion about anything: you're looking to hide away from the world and from reality itself. Which isn't in any which way healthy at all on a basic human level.

And no one here is in any way obligated to cater to you on that front.

[MasenkoHA]

Please for the love of god, please I am begging each and every one of you, STOP bringing 2019 woke victim culture and politics into dragon ball! It’s a damn anime and manga. Let people enjoy it for what it is and stop ruining it!

Grow up.

The OP asked a question. People gave their opinion. Obviously everyone here is a fan of the series on some level. People are allowed to be critical of things they enjoy.

This has nothing to do with “2019 woke culture and politics”

[Hellspawn28]

Please for the love of god, please I am begging each and every one of you, STOP bringing 2019 woke victim culture and politics into dragon ball! It’s a damn anime and manga. Let people enjoy it for what it is and stop ruining it!

They are not. Honestly, woke culture is long overdue to happen and it took up until 2011 or 2012 for some people to notice that there is other people that exist that are not white, straight or christian/catholic. People say that 2012 is the year when SJWs became mainstream, but they always exist and social media give them more of a voice to happen. In the 2000s, things where very right wing, and we never had the same type of social media that we have now. Back then, there was no big social leftish push and people where okay with everything being pro-war, and straight white males being in charge of stuff.

Honestly, I think Toriyama never made General Blue to be offensive or was created as a message to hate on the LGBTQ community. With characters like General Blue, you can view him as a harmless character.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Please for the love of god, please I am begging each and every one of you, STOP bringing 2019 woke victim culture and politics into dragon ball! It’s a damn anime and manga. Let people enjoy it for what it is and stop ruining it!

Uh what are you talking about, this topic here doesn't have anything to do with either of those things. It has to do with the particular aspects of General Blue's characterization in the manga/anime and how said characterization may be interpreted by the LGBTQ+ community as stated in the OP's topic.

To me personally, i wouldn't really say his manga self would be seen negatively as it's more the germaphobe-ness and such else of his character that's prevalent. Blue's anime counterpart on the other hand... now that i could definitely see being a problem if his creepy and highly suggestive scene with Obotchaman in Penguin Village are any indication. Even funnier is FUNimation's attempt to re write it for the dub to make it seem less obvious, although even with the change of Blue's dialogue from "my type" to "long lost brother Samuel" the visuals are still clearly a dead give away as to what's really going on there. Heck, for the Cartoon Network/Toonami broadcast they could've just as easily cut out the whole scene because it was all just filler material anyway so it's removal wouldn't be of any great impact on the rest of the episode. Obviously that's not what happened and it remained in but just a little what if.

[MyVisionity]

Honestly, I think Toriyama never made General Blue to be offensive or was created as a message to hate on the LGBTQ community. With characters like General Blue, you can view him as a harmless character.

Unfortunately, things like hate and offensiveness do not rely on any one person's intentions. Toriyama's motivations do not factor into how harmful or harmless a character may be.

[ABED]

I remember how they tried to cover up the pedophilia "jokes", but did FUNi try to cover up his sexuality?