How much races can we realistically integrate in a Dragon Ball game ?

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

I was looking upon the many races that the Dragon Ball franchise spawned over its course. As I inspected all of that I was thinking from your point of view how much races can we realistically integrate in a Dragon Ball game ?

For me it's as follow:
-Saiyan
-Namekian
-Android (like 17 or 18)
-Cell like species
-Frieza races
-Kaio and Kaioshin
-Majin
-Demon
-Earthling (like Yamcha or Videl)

Also how do you see their integration and how they are balanced ? And what the developper team need to have in mind when creating those races ?

P.S: I split the android into two types because 17 or 18 have their own specifities than Cell doesn't have like the stealth energy thingy, Cell as well have it's own thing with its many form. So I imagine that like the Majin race the Cell Jr can create their own specific races.

[Grimlock]

Realistically? Three. As shown in Dragon Ball Online. You can play with only Earthlings, Namekuseijins and Majins as it is tied to the plot, one that follows the manga.

There's no logical reason to play with:

• Saiyans - Because they're dead.
• Android - It is absurdly redundant. Create an earthling, and call them "android".
• Cell - ???
• Freeza race - We don't know if there can be/there are good guys among that race.
• Kaioshin - They make up a race, but they have a role in the Universe. No time to waste being an avatar's player.
• Demon - Same reason as the Freeza race.

Then again, I'm imagining a game like Dragon Ball Online. Where there is a story behind. Now, if it's a game that just wants to give the player more possibilities and choices, then I think it's possible to have all that and many more races, like Neko Majin, (a member of) Galactic Patrollers, a God of Destruction, Saiyans from Universe 6, Yadorats, Tsufurujins and etc. Featuring them as NPCs wouldn't be a problem too, I guess.

[Jackalope89]

Realistically? Three. As shown in Dragon Ball Online. You can play with only Earthlings, Namekuseijins and Majins as it is tied to the plot, one that follows the manga.

There's no logical reason to play with:

• Saiyans - Because they're dead.
• Android - It is absurdly redundant. Create an earthling, and call them "android".
• Cell - ???
• Freeza race - We don't know if there can be/there are good guys among that race.
• Kaioshin - They make up a race, but they have a role in the Universe. No time to waste being an avatar's player.
• Demon - Same reason as the Freeza race.

Then again, I'm imagining a game like Dragon Ball Online. Where there is a story behind. Now, if it's a game that just wants to give the player more possibilities and choices, then I think it's possible to have all that and many more races, like Neko Majin, (a member of) Galactic Patrollers, a God of Destruction, Saiyans from Universe 6, Yadorats, Tsufurujins and etc. Featuring them as NPCs wouldn't be a problem too, I guess.

To be fair, its not out of the realm of possibility for U6 Saiyans to hop over to U7.
Freeza race, well, I can go either way on. Otherwise, I'm about where you are with the rest.

[Akamay]

There's no logical reason to play with:

• Saiyans - Because they're dead.
• Android - It is absurdly redundant. Create an earthling, and call them "android".
• Cell - ???
• Freeza race - We don't know if there can be/there are good guys among that race.
• Kaioshin - They make up a race, but they have a role in the Universe. No time to waste being an avatar's player.
• Demon - Same reason as the Freeza race.

Right.....kinda feel like replying to these points in particular:
- Saiyans: Extinct in terms of pure Saiyans? Yes. But if you go by Xenoverse logic, all playable Saiyans would be descendants from Goku and Vegeta.
- Android: Not entirely redundant, older style Androids could have the energy absorption parts or they could have the same "infinite energy" style like 17 and 18. In terms of gameplay they could be humans in appearance but have no way to charge ki or they could have faster regeneration.
- Cell/Bio Android: Life energy absorption, transformations, etc. It could be good for alien-ish characters.
- Freeza race: Yeah, no good guys on this race in the main storyline, but we have Xenoverse and Heroes with good guys on their race. Besides, you don't need to necessarily be a good guy.
- Kaioshin: Heroes did it and it was fine? They have the whole backstory of the kais that has been used for the last few games, wouldn't be completely unrealistic to have them in the games.
- Demon: Once again, you don't need to be a good guy.

Limiting everything to DB Online would not go that well considering that people nowadays tend to like having a bunch of options. Not to mention, we could simply have a race of "aliens" that have all the characteristics that do not belong to any other races.
Also, having the option of siding with the villains is not really a negative point in my opinion. Why completely disregard entire races just because "there are no good guys among them"?

As for suggestions for the topic, you could very well have something like:
- Aliens: Jiren, Ribrianne and a ton of characters that do not have any relation to the main races used in the series. This could allow you to get parts from a bunch of different aliens that would not fit with Namekians, Kaioshins and Majins.
- Kais: Instead of having a Kaioshin, have the players start with a Kai since the lore implies that there are more Kais than Kaioshins and have the Kaioshin rank as a transformation with God Ki maybe?
- Humanoid Animals: They are not as common nowadays, but you have characters like Oolong and the King of the World being animals that are treated like humans. You also have the Trio de Dangers from the Tournament of Power, the Gods of Destruction and a bunch of the background characters to get "parts" from for a custom character.

[Grimlock]

To be fair, its not out of the realm of possibility for U6 Saiyans to hop over to U7.

But you'd have to come up with something explaining why they went to Universe 7 (if we're talking about a game like Dragon Ball Online, of course. If not, then I don't really see the reason this should even be considered. If no story is involved and you just want options, might as well keep Universe 7 Saiyans since the beginning).

- Saiyans: Extinct in terms of pure Saiyans? Yes. But if you go by Xenoverse logic, all playable Saiyans would be descendants from Goku and Vegeta.

In Xenoverse, the Saiyan you pick as your own avatar is a survivor of the destruction of planet Vegeta. As stated during multiple dialogues throughout the game, mostly in Parallel Missions. They are not Goku and Vegeta descendants.

- Android: Not entirely redundant, older style Androids could have the energy absorption parts or they could have the same "infinite energy" style like 17 and 18. In terms of gameplay they could be humans in appearance but have no way to charge ki or they could have faster regeneration.

I don't remember anyone else other than Android 19 and Android 20 who are able to absorb energy. And they are technically robots, fully mechanical. That said, if we go "Android 20 route" (an "ex-human" who retained his human appearance), then it's best to have an equipment that allows your Earthling to absorb energy. There, you have an "android". But if we go "Android 19 route", then his appearance should be customizable. Under that circumstances, yeah, I can take out that they are redundant.

- Cell/Bio Android: Life energy absorption, transformations, etc. It could be good for alien-ish characters.

I can't imagine how this would work. And how you would explain the existence of such thing.

- Freeza race: Yeah, no good guys on this race in the main storyline, but we have Xenoverse and Heroes with good guys on their race.

In Heroes, a human enters the game and "becomes" someone from Freeza race so it's not an actual member of said race. In Xenoverse, it's one of the major what-ifs of the game. Like I said, we don't know if there are good guys, so what Xenoverse did has no in-universe explanation and it just wants to give players more options.

- Kaioshin: Heroes did it and it was fine? They have the whole backstory of the kais that has been used for the last few games, wouldn't be completely unrealistic to have them in the games.

I think I should have said that Dragon Ball Heroes should not be considered. The avatars in there don't actually fulfill a story nor they are part of it.

Besides, you don't need to necessarily be a good guy./- Demon: Once again, you don't need to be a good guy.

I'm not taking into consideration a game that allows you to choose "good" or "evil" paths. In every Dragon Ball game with avatars, you are always the good guy. I'm considering only that scenario.

Limiting everything to DB Online would not go that well considering that people nowadays tend to like having a bunch of options.

My last paragraph was destined to those who tend to like having a bunch of options. I merely considered a game focused on the plot. It may feel limited, but it's not the game's fault, it's the series'.

Why completely disregard entire races just because "there are no good guys among them"?

Because the series never told us otherwise. That's exactly what makes Freeza race playable in Xenoverse be a huge what-if.

[Akamay]

In Xenoverse, the Saiyan you pick as your own avatar is a survivor of the destruction of planet Vegeta. As stated during multiple dialogues throughout the game, mostly in Parallel Missions. They are not Goku and Vegeta descendants.

Xenoverse 2 has a bunch of Saiyans from the Time Patrol tell you that Vegeta is their ancestral, making Bulma technically their Queen.

- Android: Not entirely redundant, older style Androids could have the energy absorption parts or they could have the same "infinite energy" style like 17 and 18. In terms of gameplay they could be humans in appearance but have no way to charge ki or they could have faster regeneration.

I don't remember anyone else other than Android 19 and Android 20 who are able to absorb energy. And they are technically robots, fully mechanical. That said, if we go "Android 20 route" (an "ex-human" who retained his human appearance), then it's best to have an equipment that allows your Earthling to absorb energy. There, you have an "android". But if we go "Android 19 route", then his appearance should be customizable. Under that circumstances, yeah, I can take out that they are redundant.

While not canon, Super 17 had energy absorption as well as all the other stuff the later models had.

- Cell/Bio Android: Life energy absorption, transformations, etc. It could be good for alien-ish characters.

I can't imagine how this would work. And how you would explain the existence of such thing.

Cell X was a thing along the 1000-ish numbered Androids in DB Online, as long as you have a scientist willing to tamper with Gero's data, you could have a Bioengineered android in the story.

- Freeza race: Yeah, no good guys on this race in the main storyline, but we have Xenoverse and Heroes with good guys on their race.

In Heroes, a human enters the game and "becomes" someone from Freeza race so it's not actual a member of said race. In Xenoverse, it's one of the major what-ifs of the game. Like I said, we don't know if there are good guys, so what Xenoverse did has no in-universe explanation and it just wants to give players more options.

- Kaioshin: Heroes did it and it was fine? They have the whole backstory of the kais that has been used for the last few games, wouldn't be completely unrealistic to have them in the games.

I think I should have said that Dragon Ball Heroes should not be considered. The avatars in there don't actually fulfill a story nor they are part of it.

Besides, you don't need to necessarily be a good guy./- Demon: Once again, you don't need to be a good guy.

I'm not taking into consideration a game that allows you to choose "good" or "evil" paths. In every Dragon Ball game with avatars, you are always the good guy. I'm considering only that scenario.

Limiting everything to DB Online would not go that well considering that people nowadays tend to like having a bunch of options.

My last paragraph was destined to those who tend to like having a bunch of options. I merely considered a game focused on the plot. It may feel limited, but it's not the game's fault, it's the series'.

Why completely disregard entire races just because "there are no good guys among them"?

Because the series never told us otherwise. That's exactly what makes Freeza race playable in Xenoverse be a huge what-if.

This still does not justify why exactly having those options would not be realistic or even viable.
I mean, you're having the player make their own character in the Dragon Ball Universe, having a lot of options would be good in terms of gameplay and player experience.
Story-wise it's not impossible to have a game where you are the bad guy. Saying that the plot limits the players' options does not feel like something that would be wise to do. Dunno, this is mostly my opinion.

Then again it also comes down to what exactly you would be doing in the game.
If it's a bunch of what-if scenarios like Xenoverse and Heroes, there's nothing really stopping people from making whatever they want.

If it's meant to be a canon story, there is the issue of WHEN the game would take place, as it would limit a lot of things.
Stuff like the Freeza force existing, Saiyans being extinct or not, Majin Buu had created the Majin race or not, etc.

I'm assuming you would want to give people a lot of options, so going with a non-canon story would probably be for the best.
You don't want people doing things like saving the universe and having that be a canon thing only for something released later on to contradict it.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

Then again, I'm imagining a game like Dragon Ball Online. Where there is a story behind. Now, if it's a game that just wants to give the player more possibilities and choices, then I think it's possible to have all that and many more races, like Neko Majin, (a member of) Galactic Patrollers, a God of Destruction, Saiyans from Universe 6, Yadorats, Tsufurujins and etc. Featuring them as NPCs wouldn't be a problem too, I guess.

Well Dragon Ball Online was thought to be an official follow up to the end of Dragon Ball (mostly the manga) So I guess you would like for a game following the same formula to have less races for being more accurate.

We would need to see what is realistic depending on the genre, like if it's a mmorpg or an action adventure game or a fighting game. For example Nostal/Treevax better known for its Raging Blast 3 project proposed those races for his game project

-Saiyan
-Earthling
-Namek
-Frieza Race
-Android (but more like Cell)
-Aliens
-Majin

For a fighting game I think it's kinda realistic to have all of that for the sakes of option and where the story is not that relevant.

[Grimlock]

Xenoverse 2 has a bunch of Saiyans from the Time Patrol tell you that Vegeta is their ancestral, making Bulma technically their Queen.

Mind to post an image? I've never seen that.

This still does not justify why exactly having those options would not be realistic or even viable.
I mean, you're having the player make their own character in the Dragon Ball Universe, having a lot of options would be good in terms of gameplay and player experience.

I think "plot" is sufficient reason. You can't really ask for someone if the story never told you if that someone can even exist to begin with.

Well Dragon Ball Online was thought to be an official follow up to the end of Dragon Ball (mostly the manga) So I guess you would like for a game following the same formula to have less races for being more accurate.

That is correct. That is what I interpreted by "realistically"; A game focusing on the plot. Unrealistic would be a game not caring much for the story, which would allow more things to be possible. Or a Dragon Ball Heroes situation, lots of avatars but they aren't part of the story.

For a fighting game I think it's kinda realistic to have all of that for the sakes of option and where the story is not that relevant.

I can see a lot of complaints in that case. Fighting with characters that resembles ones seen in the series but you don't know them (unless the game brings a story of its own).

[Akamay]

Xenoverse 2 has a bunch of Saiyans from the Time Patrol tell you that Vegeta is their ancestral, making Bulma technically their Queen.

Mind to post an image? I've never seen that.

I don't have the game installed and I'm not 100% sure if that was what the NPC says, but it should be one of the NPCs looking at Vegeta on the Capsule Corp area. If I'm wrong there, then it's my bad.

Either way, I was pretty sure there was something along the lines of "Saiyan genes spread between earthlings, giving them the potential of becoming Super Saiyans" was mentioned on DB Online.

Regardless, there are still ways to keep Saiyans around, it wouldn't be that unrealistic to add them to a game.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

For a fighting game I think it's kinda realistic to have all of that for the sakes of option and where the story is not that relevant.

I can see a lot of complaints in that case. Fighting with characters that resembles ones seen in the series but you don't know them (unless the game brings a story of its own).

While I understand where you are coming from, I think that technology give us more and more power for gaming we can have game with a huge content and has as well a good story. Like something combining the content size of a Super Smash Bros Ultimate to a story driven game a la let's say The Witcher III / Skyrim.

It's reachable to have both story and content as equal quality.

Regardless, there are still ways to keep Saiyans around, it wouldn't be that unrealistic to add them to a game.

Of course we can, we can even made that the plot point as to why the Saiyan were revived. After all Dragon Ball Legends start its story with a Saiyan that is Shallot a total new character (albeit he is not so customisable) But the idea is here.

[Akamay]

Well, in the end, it really depends on what type of story you're trying to tell.
The topic mainly focused on what could be integrated into a Dragon Ball game, not really limiting it to one single type of game or story.
My issue really with what was being said was that all the other races mentioned were not realistically possible.
I mean, yeah, if you're going to limit the choices because of the story, some races would not make sense.
But we're talking purely about what would be possible, not what would make sense given a set story, no?

Speaking strictly with a game in mind, having a bunch of races that are visually similar but are mechanically distinct would be way easier to implement than making a whole bunch of assets for unique races.
Still, the current customization systems we see in Xenoverse and Heroes would work well since there are a ton of characters that can be used to create new "parts" for a custom character.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

Still, the current customization systems we see in Xenoverse and Heroes would work well since there are a ton of characters that can be used to create new "parts" for a custom character.

But heroes are a card based game how you can custom a character with cards ? Unless the card has a chip inside ?

[Akamay]

Still, the current customization systems we see in Xenoverse and Heroes would work well since there are a ton of characters that can be used to create new "parts" for a custom character.

But heroes are a card based game how you can custom a character with cards ? Unless the card has a chip inside ?

Japanese arcade games can have a "user card" that tracks your progress and stuff, you could save a custom made character there.
Also, NFC technology has gotten to the point where you can make pretty neat stuff without it being horrendously expensive. The whole Amiibo cards come to mind.
If anything, just wait a couple of years and we can surely get a pretty decent way to save stuff to cards.