Characters we don't need

[Anonymous Friend]

I just finished watching "Path to Power" and absolutely loved it. And as most of you know it is a retelling of the Dragon Ball series up to the end of the Red Ribbon Army but doesn't include Krillin, Pilaf and his crew and a few other characters.

The question that I'm posing is: Say they wanted to retell other story arcs of Dragon Ball and Dragonball Z. What characters could be omitted and the over story remain intact for feature length movies?

For me, I could see everything from the opening of Z to the end of Cell without Gohan. Basically don't kill Goku, have him and Piccolo train together and Goku kindness rubs on Piccolo. Maybe even have them both train with King Kai for a bit. Who knows? Have Piccolo sacrifice himself for Goku. The Namek, Freeza, Andriods, and Cell arcs go pretty much the same but Goku is Goku and takes the place of Gohan.

The only problem that jumps out at me is who trains Trunks in the future but he could have trained himself or something else.

[finnishjuoppo]

DBZ without Mr. Satan would be awesome!

[Kunzait_83]

b

[VegettoEX]

In all honesty, Lunch is entirely irrelevant and extraneous to the story. Hell, just look no further than FUNimation's original dub of the series. Absolutely nothing was lost in the process of removing her (of course, her limited appearances in the Saiya-jin arc are entirely filler, so that kinda leads into a separate discussion).

But overall, she contributes very little to any on-going stories, and has zero character arc to speak of. Her original purpose was nothing more than a convincing factor for training acceptance (Goku/Kuririn era), and what did she manage to accomplish after being brought in? She was drawn skimpily, forced their way to the front row at the Tenka-ichi Budokai a couple times...

...

... uhh...

errr............

Oh yeah, she hung on to Tenshinhan a couple times...

... hrrmm....

She's a, comparatively speaking, poor example of a character introduced exclusively for side-comedy. The author forgets her, tosses her aside, and no-one really seems to care (then again, you could say no-one cares because the author forgot her and therefore can't write the characters TO care about her...).

It's obvious that Toriyama wanted to introduce another female character, but it seems like Lunch wasn't the way to go. I would argue that he retroactively went after the cute/angry duality of Lunch's character when he brought Chi-Chi back during the 23rd Tenka-ichi Budokai, which gave him a convenient excuse to get Goku hitched with a character that made a little more sense (closer in age, actually had some meaningful interactions, etc.).

Oh, and hey... she wasn't in the 10th anniversary movie, either (see original thread post), and that worked out OK .

[Kunzait_83]

b

[The Tori-bot]

Uhh... everyone except Goku in GT.

As for DB and Z, yeah, I agree with Lunch. But hey, she did get everybody front-row seats...

As for Z, we REALLY didn't need #16. Sure, he triggered Gohan's SSJ2 transformation, but his place could have been taken by another character, mabye someone who actually KNEW Gohan for a while? Goku could have easily been the one to die, with Gohan just beating Cell down and then that would never have had the stupid "My son's a cocky little turd, so I'll just kill myself to save the world. But no, wait, 'twas all in vain, Cell's alive anyway!" stuff.

Oh, and the two Mar/rons. 'Nuff said.

[XxArmageddonX7]

DBZ without Mr. Satan would be awesome!

No way.

[Jerseymilk]

DBZ without Mr. Satan would be awesome!

Ya and Majin Buu would have won.

[NeptuneKai]

DBZ without Mr. Satan would be awesome!

Ya and Majin Buu would have won.

If they remade it Mr.Satan could easily be replaced by say, Yamcha or Kurririn. (Two of the comic relief characters before Satan)

[Vekurotto]

In all honesty, Lunch is entirely irrelevant and extraneous to the story. Hell, just look no further than FUNimation's original dub of the series. Absolutely nothing was lost in the process of removing her (of course, her limited appearances in the Saiya-jin arc are entirely filler, so that kinda leads into a separate discussion).

But overall, she contributes very little to any on-going stories, and has zero character arc to speak of. Her original purpose was nothing more than a convincing factor for training acceptance (Goku/Kuririn era), and what did she manage to accomplish after being brought in? She was drawn skimpily, forced their way to the front row at the Tenka-ichi Budokai a couple times...

Lunch just seemed like a big gag. It's like, "look we've got an hot air-headed chick that can sneeze and turn into a hot bitch with guns." Oolong made contributions then her. Maybe if the character was worked with better Lunch could've been like Bulma but is not the case. She just vanishes and nobody even notices.

[FUNimationRocks]

Majin Buu.

If you remove him, it would definitely have an impact on how the story ends, but...

It's easy to remove the last major character of a series (this is, of course, excluding the existence of GT).

[Jerseymilk]

DBZ without Mr. Satan would be awesome!

Ya and Majin Buu would have won.

If they remade it Mr.Satan could easily be replaced by say, Yamcha or Kurririn. (Two of the comic relief characters before Satan)

How would that work? I wasn't even talking about the comic relief aspect, but the fact that if it wasn't for him begging the people of Earth to lend their power, Goku would not have had enough to defeat Majin Buu. As much as people can find him annoying and in the way, he was a key figure in finishing off Majin Buu.

[NeptuneKai]

Ya and Majin Buu would have won.

If they remade it Mr.Satan could easily be replaced by say, Yamcha or Kurririn. (Two of the comic relief characters before Satan)

How would that work? I wasn't even talking about the comic relief aspect, but the fact that if it wasn't for him begging the people of Earth to lend their power, Goku would not have had enough to defeat Majin Buu. As much as people can find him annoying and in the way, he was a key figure in finishing of Majin Buu.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about when Mr.Satan became friends with Fat Buu. (Making him stop blowing up shit n' such.)

[TripleRach]

No one seems to be acknowledging the fact that Lunch once saved everyone, including Gokuu, from getting blown up by Blue. She did one very useful thing...!

[Victator Supreme]

then that would never have had the stupid "My son's a cocky little turd, so I'll just kill myself to save the world. But no, wait, 'twas all in vain, Cell's alive anyway!"

You are confusing stupid with poetic.

[Vekurotto]

No one seems to be acknowledging the fact that Lunch once saved everyone, including Gokuu, from getting blown up by Blue. She did one very useful thing...!

Eh. Right time, right place .

[Rocketman]

For me, I could see everything from the opening of Z to the end of Cell without Gohan.

Been hanging around Rocketman a lot lately I see?

I only bring the light to the masses, it is their responsibility to accept it.

But why stop at Cell? For all the fapping over Z being "Gohan's story", he's barely needed at all.

Piccolo was already softening by the time Raditz came to Earth, because Raditz went to hell instead of roaming the Earth after death. So, Piccolo's deevilfication gets a boost from fulfilling his purpose and avenging his father by killing Goku.

In the Saiyan battle, realizing his sacrifice would bring the number of Earth's defenders down to two, Tien doesn't go on his last ride. Since there's no Gohan for Krillin to have misplaced trust in, the Piccolo-Krillin double team on Nappa ends with Krillin slicing Nappa in half with the Destructo-Disc.

Vegeta kills Piccolo when he picks up Goku's getting closer. Goku gives Krillin and Tien the Senzu, then leaves to fight Vegeta. That fight plays out as normal, with Tien's Tri-Beam taking Gohan-Oozaru's place.

Little difference on Namek, as Gohan never gained a huge advantage over Krillin, even with the unlock potential. Tien manages to bluff Vegeta, largely because Vegeta's high on 'got all the dragonballs!'. The Recoome fight lasts a bit longer since Tien's not as retarded as Gohan was. The end result is about the same, though.

Piccolo still gets to King Kai's for his self-sacrifice to protect the Earth and a bit of bureaucratic fudging (Piccolo should've gone to hell, one self-sacrificing save of a kid notwithstanding - Vegeta was going to hell even with his sacrifice against Buu). He goes to Namek and fuses with Nail, which alters his personality more.

The Freeza fight is somewhat tougher, but between Freeza's toying with them and Tien's Tri-Beam, it plays out to Krillin's death and Goku's ascension. Without a son, Krillin is still the closest person to Goku, and the Super Saiyan tears Freeza apart. Goku leaves Namek with Tien and Bulma as the planet explodes.

Trunks arrives, far more like Vegeta than we know him. Without a single teacher (though he did get training from people like Roshi and Korin), Trunks' only bond is with his mom. Without Gohan to hold his hand, Trunks is a hardass only relying on his own strength. He kills King Kold when the latter tracks Goku to Earth.

Goku trains with Piccolo during the three years, bringing him to the point we know him to be at during the Android saga. The fusion with Kami cements his personality change.

The Android saga proceeds as normal (since Gohan didn't do anything significant, AFAIK) up to the Time Chamber training. With three Saiyans wanting to train, they decide to train in alternating pair, Vegeta and Trunks, Trunks and Goku, then Goku and Vegeta. Vegeta and Trunks go in while Goku gets Dende to get new Dragonballs.

Vegeta and Trunks rocket off to fight Cell after their training, with predictable results. Beaten down, they agree to train with Goku, and all three exit the Chamber as Full Power Super Saiyans.

At the Cell Games, Cell doesn't make Cell Jr's. Instead, after Goku's last-ditch Warp Kamehameha, Cell decides to taunt the drained Goku (Vegeta and Trunks had already had their turns) by picking off his friends. Trunks dies first, and Vegeta explodes with rage into Super Saiyan 2.

Cell gets his ass whipped and activates his bomb. Without the Instant Transmission, Goku can't sacrifice himself. Vegeta thus uses his SSJ2 speed and endurance to carry Cell out into space. Caught in the explosion, Vegeta dies. Cell's core does not survive the explosion.

Krillin saves #18, Trunks is revived and returns to the future surprised at his father's reaction, Goku finally goes home for a few months before having to sleep outside after asking why ChiChi was getting so fat.

Years later, Vegeta gets his day back on Earth, having waited for Goku to achieve SSJ2 so they can have another fight. Without Gohan, the Kai's plan to uncover Buu's resting place happens when Goku and Vegeta face each other in the World Tournament. Their energy gets stolen, they track down Babidi's spaceship, but without Majin Vegeta, Buu is either not released or released at less than full strength.

If he's released at all, Buu immediately faces the Super Saiyan 2s. With their first exposure to Saiyan/Human hybrids being Trunks (a decent, but not ZOMGWAGE fighter) and Goku never learning the fusion dance and Goten and Trunks not even ten years old yet, neither has the inclination to leave Buu for the next generation to handle.

Still, Buu's regeneration and gradual unlocking of his power as he gets angrier overcomes the Saiyans' power advantage at the start. Goku considers self-destructing to stop Buu until the Kai chimes in with the knowledge of the Z Sword.

Goku goes with the Kai (Vegeta won't be able to leave the afterlife if he goes) while Vegeta leads Buu in a cat-and-mouse game to buy time. Buu kills Babidi when the latter demands Buu stop what Buu considers to be a fun game.

Goku easily pulls up the sword and masters it quickly, having not slacked on his weight training like Gohan did. Skeptical of a blade being able to defeat Buu, Goku tests it, breaking it and releasing Old Kai.

Goku turns down the Mystic powerup, knowing Vegeta is running out of time to be on Earth and that there's nothing stopping Buu once Vegeta's gone. Old Kai offers the fusion earrings instead, Goku takes tham back to Earth, and Vegetto is born.

Without Gotenks, Buu never had a reason to absorb the kids or Piccolo. Vegetto thus has no reason to hold back and obliterates Buu. Never being absorbed, Vegetto doesn't break up. Uub never comes into being, but the 'ten years later' segment shows Vegetto being a harder taskmaster than the seperate Saiyans were, preparing Goten and Trunks to be the heroes of Earth once Vegetto's gone.

[Vekurotto]

But why stop at Cell? For all the fapping over Z being "Gohan's story", he's barely needed at all.

'Tis true. In the end it always ended up being somebody other than Gohan to do the winning blow. Other than the time with Radditz, and the part with the Cell Jrs., I can't think of any other time where he did anything all too useful on his own, without somebody either getting on his ass about it or provoking him. Even in the Cell Games where it was "Gohan's victory", he would've died if Cell blew himself up, and he would've died again if Vegeta didn't distract Cell. But no, the potentials!1!

[Vegard Aune]

*Stuff, stuff and more stuff*

So essentially, you're saying that Gohan doesn't serve a purpose, even though removing him would have essentially been the same as REWRITING THE ENTIRE STORY, changing several major plot-points and completely changing a ton of stuff. By your logic, why not do One Piece without Luffy's crew or Death Note without L and Near ?

[Vekurotto]

*Stuff, stuff and more stuff*

So essentially, you're saying that Gohan doesn't serve a purpose, even though removing him would have essentially been the same as REWRITING THE ENTIRE STORY, changing several major plot-points and completely changing a ton of stuff. By your logic, why not do One Piece without Luffy's crew or Death Note without L and Near ?

I don't speak for Rocketman but I say that most of the times there seemed like this build up to Gohan being the strongest and then it always ended up being somebody else or a factor of many things that always prevented Gohan from being the one to do anything. Granted he was strong enough to beat Cell before he exploded but who stops Cell from exploding the Earth in the first place? Goku. And could Gohan really have beaten Cell without his dad's words of encouragement and Vegeta's assist at the end. He admitted defeat multiple times after he got injured from shielding Vegeta. Same with Old Kaioshin when he said Gohan could beat Super Boo yet it ended up being Goku and Vegeta against Boo in the end and Gohan wasted away into a bookworm even though he's supposed to be the strongest man ever created.

Gohan's more of a frustrating charater to me. I don't hate him, it's just that the decisions that were made with him were a little, stupid.