"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:49 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:35 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:58 pm
mute_proxy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:37 pm


Has any of the previous villains interpreted by Toyotaro surprised you with diversity in any way by the end of the battle?
No. The previous villains were just muscle based. Moro's foundation is suppose to be magic. So Toyotaro has more room to play with this character.
Zamasu wasn't just muscle based, he did a lot of flashy godly things on TV too, but in the manga he was reduced. There's a high chance Toyotaro's lack of imagination might slip him again
With this flashy godly things do you mean just generic Ki Blasts with different names and shapes?
Block88 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:22 am
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:43 pm
Block88 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:33 pm
I find it annoying how toyo keeps treating Moro energy drain ability as magic where it just him absorbing you at a very fast rate.
Wouldn’t hurt to actually have Moro do actual magic.
You mean like the Pyrokinesis, Telekinesis, and Mind Reading he has already done. And last I checked most characters can't absorb energy using their own power ( Excluding Goku and Piccolo.) And no, the androids don't count since that is using technology to do so.
Telekinesis is something freeza and Zamasu and everybody else done mindreading was something goku did on namek, yakon was absorbing energy as well and yes androids count cause surprise they absorb energy as well, difference is moro is on steroids.
Show me actual magic
The examples you cited are mostly isolated or never actually explored. Moro is the only character to bring all these skills together, using them at a much higher level. Despite this, I agree that it is nothing new or unique (except for the ability to sense DBs and to control the vital energy of the planets), which is not necessarily a bad thing

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:49 pm


With this flashy godly things do you mean just generic Ki Blasts with different names and shapes?

I mean a big ass halo, a giant fiery phoenix thing and becoming the universe when cut down.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:24 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:49 pm


With this flashy godly things do you mean just generic Ki Blasts with different names and shapes?

I mean a big ass halo, a giant fiery phoenix thing and becoming the universe when cut down.
All of which except the last one are exactly what he said above, Ki Blasts with different names and shapes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:25 pm

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:24 pm
mute_proxy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:49 pm


With this flashy godly things do you mean just generic Ki Blasts with different names and shapes?

I mean a big ass halo, a giant fiery phoenix thing and becoming the universe when cut down.
All of which except the last one are exactly what he said above, Ki Blasts with different names and shapes.
Thanks for your contribution on the topic. In any case, visual representation matters a lot

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:02 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:34 am
I remember there was a fake spoiler where Moro could play with their minds and make people see things that weren’t there. I actually thought that would have been kind of cool

Although the rest of this spoiler sounded really bad lol

I mean I do get the complaint so far nothing Moro has done seems really “magical” but like I said I do like that Goku and Vegeta are so out of their element here and so far this story seems to be against formula. I just hope it’s ending is too
You know what? I fully agree with this! Those “fake” spoilers that came out several months back were much better than the spoilers we actually got. That’s why i was so eager to believe it. So far, Moro’s “magic”, if we can even call it that, has been PATHETIC!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Chuquita » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:19 pm

I think advertising Moro as a psychic would've worked out better than him being advertised as a magic user. Magic makes me think of powers that are fun and fantastical. It makes me think of an energetic, eccentric personality. I think of the gag manga style characters Toriyama's so good at. It's why Moro's so disappointing to me with his 90's Toei Z Movie style villainy.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:51 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:02 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:34 am
I remember there was a fake spoiler where Moro could play with their minds and make people see things that weren’t there. I actually thought that would have been kind of cool

Although the rest of this spoiler sounded really bad lol

I mean I do get the complaint so far nothing Moro has done seems really “magical” but like I said I do like that Goku and Vegeta are so out of their element here and so far this story seems to be against formula. I just hope it’s ending is too
You know what? I fully agree with this! Those “fake” spoilers that came out several months back were much better than the spoilers we actually got. That’s why i was so eager to believe it. So far, Moro’s “magic”, if we can even call it that, has been PATHETIC!
These spoilers also said that Goku would look for the Super Dragon Balls to deliver them to Moro just to have a good fight. I do not remember anyone who really liked this at the time

Not to mention that this illusion magic would not really be practical or useful against guys with the level of power of Goku and Vegeta
mute_proxy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:49 pm


With this flashy godly things do you mean just generic Ki Blasts with different names and shapes?

I mean a big ass halo, a giant fiery phoenix thing and becoming the universe when cut down.
These things were cool, but ultimately they were used only as Ki Blasts, with no unique properties (the universe thing It was due to his immortality, it was not intentional, as in the manga in which he created several clones with the same force of the original because of his immortality)

Merged Zamasu in manga did not use so many different techniques, but dimensional portals were interesting since they were never used canonically

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:19 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:51 pm
These spoilers also said that Goku would look for the Super Dragon Balls to deliver them to Moro just to have a good fight. I do not remember anyone who really liked this at the time

Not to mention that this illusion magic would not really be practical or useful against guys with the level of power of Goku and Vegeta

It was specifically the spoiler about Goku that people didn’t like (thanks I forgot the details) and yes that was pretty stupid. But I still think the illusion magic could have been interesting.

Not really sure how Goku and Vegeta’s power levels have anything to do with it if their minds are being controlled and they don’t know what they are doing then their power level won’t make a difference.

That being said while these powers sound interesting they also don’t seem very Dragon Ball like. Goku and Vegeta having their power absorbed I guess still feels in the realm of Dragon Ball and it still takes them as I said out of their element where they can’t rely on power alone to beat Moro.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:36 pm

I'm no Moro Stan by any means but I re-read the arc's first chapter and he is shown eating planets and throwing comets to the Kaioshin. That's not very outside the box-ish but still pretty impressive. I'm hoping when the final showdown arrives he'll show even more of that kind of magic.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nightbane » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:25 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:02 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:34 am
I remember there was a fake spoiler where Moro could play with their minds and make people see things that weren’t there. I actually thought that would have been kind of cool

Although the rest of this spoiler sounded really bad lol

I mean I do get the complaint so far nothing Moro has done seems really “magical” but like I said I do like that Goku and Vegeta are so out of their element here and so far this story seems to be against formula. I just hope it’s ending is too
You know what? I fully agree with this! Those “fake” spoilers that came out several months back were much better than the spoilers we actually got. That’s why i was so eager to believe it. So far, Moro’s “magic”, if we can even call it that, has been PATHETIC!
I'm not sure how anyone can think this outside of the illusion magic. The spoilers about Goku giving him the Dragon Balls were awful, awful awful. That would of ruined the arc for pretty much everyone besides a minority. Everyone was against those spoilers except a small handful.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:33 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:19 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:51 pm
These spoilers also said that Goku would look for the Super Dragon Balls to deliver them to Moro just to have a good fight. I do not remember anyone who really liked this at the time

Not to mention that this illusion magic would not really be practical or useful against guys with the level of power of Goku and Vegeta

It was specifically the spoiler about Goku that people didn’t like (thanks I forgot the details) and yes that was pretty stupid. But I still think the illusion magic could have been interesting.

Not really sure how Goku and Vegeta’s power levels have anything to do with it if their minds are being controlled and they don’t know what they are doing then their power level won’t make a difference.

That being said while these powers sound interesting they also don’t seem very Dragon Ball like. Goku and Vegeta having their power absorbed I guess still feels in the realm of Dragon Ball and it still takes them as I said out of their element where they can’t rely on power alone to beat Moro.
This creating illusions thing would be cool and different, but would not be something that put Moro above Goku and Vegeta or would give a significant advantage, I do not think it is important even though I think it would make the character more unique

Moro's current arsenal and his actions during the saga meant that he could not be defeated only with successive power up attempts by the heroes, which I find interesting

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:47 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
I mean a big ass halo, a giant fiery phoenix thing and becoming the universe when cut down.
So basically just flashy ki blasts with different names and shapes.

The manga's iteration of Zamasu made far more sense. He's a squishy wizard who can't hit as hard as Goku, which is why he took Goku's body. The anime was unsure whether Zamas was Goku and Vegeta's equal or not, so it threw into question why he even needed Goku's body in the first place.

I don't care if Moro never pulls out a D&D spellbook and starts casting Shocking Grasp. That's not the author's focus. Moro as an enemy is built entirely around his ability to siphon energy. If that's all his magic amounts to, then who cares? It's still presenting the challenge it is meant to.

Not everything needs ostentatious presentation. This isn't Gurren Lagann.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:23 am

Nightbane wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:25 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:02 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:34 am
I remember there was a fake spoiler where Moro could play with their minds and make people see things that weren’t there. I actually thought that would have been kind of cool

Although the rest of this spoiler sounded really bad lol

I mean I do get the complaint so far nothing Moro has done seems really “magical” but like I said I do like that Goku and Vegeta are so out of their element here and so far this story seems to be against formula. I just hope it’s ending is too
You know what? I fully agree with this! Those “fake” spoilers that came out several months back were much better than the spoilers we actually got. That’s why i was so eager to believe it. So far, Moro’s “magic”, if we can even call it that, has been PATHETIC!
I'm not sure how anyone can think this outside of the illusion magic. The spoilers about Goku giving him the Dragon Balls were awful, awful awful. That would of ruined the arc for pretty much everyone besides a minority. Everyone was against those spoilers except a small handful.
I don’t care about Goku’s character. It means nothing to me. But in my defense, i was specifically talking about the Moro magical illusion ability. And not the other spoilers.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by anubisj » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:52 pm

TKA wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:47 am
mute_proxy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
I mean a big ass halo, a giant fiery phoenix thing and becoming the universe when cut down.
So basically just flashy ki blasts with different names and shapes.

The manga's iteration of Zamasu made far more sense. He's a squishy wizard who can't hit as hard as Goku, which is why he took Goku's body. The anime was unsure whether Zamas was Goku and Vegeta's equal or not, so it threw into question why he even needed Goku's body in the first place.

I don't care if Moro never pulls out a D&D spellbook and starts casting Shocking Grasp. That's not the author's focus. Moro as an enemy is built entirely around his ability to siphon energy. If that's all his magic amounts to, then who cares? It's still presenting the challenge it is meant to.

Not everything needs ostentatious presentation. This isn't Gurren Lagann.

I personally would´ve liked more diverse stuff, original abilities unlike anything seen before. I think Super needs something that stir things up, something fresh and new and cool, and a villain that just absorbs ki from others doesn´t fit the bill, to be honest.

I´m not asking for a full out magical villain, but I do care about villains more than just the challenge they provide, and so far Moro has been lacklustre in almost every regard. I would go so far as to say that I would not like the Moro arc adapted in anime form, I think Toei should design their own saga. This is because there are few things that I like about this arc (a couple of them would be the Namekian savior and his death, plus Moro´s wish, which was interesting and opened up plenty of possibilities...except for the fact that there appears to be only grunts in the Galactic Prison (it seems that way for now), but I still like most of the designs, much better than some of TOP).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:56 pm

https://prnt.sc/oilacp
Is this guy also from yardrat? He kinda looks like it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:08 pm

anubisj wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:52 pm
I personally would´ve liked more diverse stuff, original abilities unlike anything seen before
That's perfectly fine! You can want to see weird abilities and out there spells! That's perfectly fine!

Just as long as you realize that isn't much of a valid critique against Moro and his role in the arc.

I'd like for Dragonball to show how King Vegeta united the saiyan race and took over the planet, but they'll never do it. I don't use that as an argument against the series because it'd be crazy to do that. Same thing applies here. Expectations/fan wishes are never a good argument.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:04 am

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:56 pm
https://prnt.sc/oilacp
Is this guy also from yardrat? He kinda looks like it.
We'll find out hopefully in the next chapter what Yardrats are supposed to look like in the manga. In the original DB, Yardrats never made an on-panel appearance.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by anubisj » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:52 am

TKA wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:08 pm
anubisj wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:52 pm
I personally would´ve liked more diverse stuff, original abilities unlike anything seen before
That's perfectly fine! You can want to see weird abilities and out there spells! That's perfectly fine!

Just as long as you realize that isn't much of a valid critique against Moro and his role in the arc.

I'd like for Dragonball to show how King Vegeta united the saiyan race and took over the planet, but they'll never do it. I don't use that as an argument against the series because it'd be crazy to do that. Same thing applies here. Expectations/fan wishes are never a good argument.
Without delving too much into the differences between expecting something, and thinking that something could benefit from having something else, I´ll say that I was responding to your previous comment, particularly " If that's all his magic amounts to, then who cares? It's still presenting the challenge it is meant to." I do care about what his magic amounts to, because, as I said, I don´t judge villains solely on the challenge presented, and also Moro was stated to have magical abilities. If that only means sapping the ki from others and using it to attack or rejuvenate himself, then yeah, I would like to see more creativity in his skills, which I think is a valid critique.

Of course, I´m also referring to Super in general (well, more like 2uper), it desperately needs to spice things up somehow because, in my opinion, it is growing a bit stale. I´m not suggesting changing the formula completely, but more like when Toriyama added the fusion concept, or when he added time travelling, or as you put it, " weird abilities" . :)

As for the Moro arc in particular, I will repeat myself; I expected Toyotaro to think a bit out-of-the-box with this arc, and yes, that was my expectation, but if I remove that from the equation, (my "fan wish", as you say), I still think that Moro´s abilities could be better developed, and Moro himself, too. That is a valid argument, I think. (Also, bear in mind that expectations are sometimes unavoidable; if 2uper is announced, everybody will set expectations, of some form or another, about the show, and the same thing goes for the manga. We might not like it, but nobody is completely objective)

However, I´m still holding out hope that we will see some nice tricks from our beloved goatman before this is over. :twisted:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:58 pm

anubisj wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:52 am

Without delving too much into the differences between expecting something, and thinking that something could benefit from having something else, I´ll say that I was responding to your previous comment, particularly " If that's all his magic amounts to, then who cares? It's still presenting the challenge it is meant to." I do care about what his magic amounts to, because, as I said, I don´t judge villains solely on the challenge presented, and also Moro was stated to have magical abilities. If that only means sapping the ki from others and using it to attack or rejuvenate himself, then yeah, I would like to see more creativity in his skills, which I think is a valid critique.
Again, I think it's perfectly okay to want to see him pull out a necronomicon and start doing weird spells, hexes, and so on.

But, also again, I don't think when discussing the quality of the arc that can be levied as a valid criticism. It isn't. If someone in the story said "Wow, that Moro guy Daikoshin beat sure had a bunch of wacky, crazy spells," then it would be a valid critique. But since the day he's been introduced until now, it's his ability to absorb energy that has been the focus.

He presents a unique threat to the main characters, and their typical modus operandi (power up, beat up villain) actively doesn't work against him since he just absorbs their power.

A unique threat is one of the most important things you can ask of any villain, but especially a villain of a long-running series.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:14 am

Though I think the third wish a little lame, I will say something I liked this chapter is how they showed Moro's energy absorption ability in the context of Goku and Vegeta's transformations suddenly and rapidly progressing throughout the course of an altercation as opposed to all at once. I feel like that's something that could be used as a really effective time element in the future. By making it progressive and visual(IE, them being physically shown to go to inferior forms), there could in the future emphasis the fight against time aspect of battling someone like Moro, and does so in a visually obvious way for the audience(as opposed to seeing Goku constantly maintaining Blue and being vaguely told his energy is running low).

Little iffy personally on Vegeta's characterization this chapter. Not the worst, but still feels a little out dated for him. Interested to see where it will go however.

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