Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

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Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:47 am

In the Universe Survival Arc, we were introduced to a new form. Or actually we've introduced to a ton of new forms, and it's really count how many, but that's besides the point. One of those forms was a form that looked very similar to the Legendary Super Saiyan form that Broly displayed in his movies, introduced by Universe 6 Saiyan Kale. We would later find out this form would be called Super Saiyan Berserk. For the longest time, we would accept this form as the canon version of Legendary Super Saiyan and its name as its canon name. And when Dragon Ball Super Broly was revealed and we first see Broly all bulky and with green hair, we figured that he was also going to display Super Saiyan Berserk. But then more marketing came with his form and they kept calling the form "Super Saiyan Full Power" and it started confusing me. And when the movie came out, they didn't even reference Kale when Goku and Vegeta fought him in that form. Hell they didn't even witness it unfused. And I'm just wondering "Okay, Broly and Kale are using the same form, right?" First of all, Super Saiyan Full Power is already a form before this. Has anyone heard of the mastered Super Saiyan form? That's Super Saiyan Full Power. It's kinda weird to have two forms with the same name. What's double weird is the seeing two characters use the same form, but the form having different names depending on the user. And I know there's gonna one guy that's gonna bring up the other Super Saiyan Berserk form Goku used in Heroes, but that's not canon, so it doesn't count. So that brings up the question: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?
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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:20 am

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:47 am
introduced by Universe 6 Saiyan Kale. We would later find out this form would be called Super Saiyan Berserk.
Where, exactly? I don't remember the series nor any promotional material calling her transformation "Super Saiyan Berserk". NeitherDragon Ball: Dokkan Battle nor Dragon Ball Heroes acknowledge it as such. See the lack of "Super Saiyan"? It's just "berserk" without the actual name of the transformation. Which means it is the character itself who is in the state of berserk, the transformation might something else (kinda similar to Ultra Instinct's situation. That name refers to the technique, but the change in appearance in Goku still has no actual name).
Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:47 am
First of all, Super Saiyan Full Power is already a form before this. Has anyone heard of the mastered Super Saiyan form? That's Super Saiyan Full Power. And I know there's gonna one guy that's gonna bring up the other Super Saiyan Berserk form Goku used in Heroes, but that's not canon, so it doesn't count. So that brings up the question: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?
You talk about "canon" (something this franchise lacks) and goes on to say that Heroes doesn't count but you bring up a guidebook's statement, as if guidebooks were "unquestionably" part of something, instead of supplemental material that people can rely or not (which is the case. Specially these days when their content is very outdated). "Super Saiyan Full Power" referring to Super Saiyan Grade 4 has never been used outside the guidebooks.

Well, since you already brought up the case, yeah, the only "Super Saiyan Berserk" in this franchise as far as I know is the one Goku presented in Prison Planet saga, as Heroes does acknowledge it as a Super Saiyan form by putting its name on it. In this case, the transformation itself is the one "altered" (in the state of berserk) here, affecting the person (yeah I know it's a fine line to differentiate, but I think it's clear enough to be understood). Unless, again, you can provide a source to any other usage of the term, which I have no knowledge of.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:53 am

I don’t think so. Broly uses the power of oozaru in his transformation while there is no indication of Kale doing so.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:16 am

Broly and Kale share too much similarities. Green hair, big muscles, uncontrollable rage, no irises. I honestly don’t see how their forms would not be the same. The only difference is that Broly is much stronger.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:44 pm

for whatever is worth, we have two other instances of "Full Power" applied to a Super Saiyan transformation:
Cumber's SS3 Full Power and Broly's SS4 Full Power
And Ultra Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku i guess.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by SSJgogeto » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm

I have a little theory about this: SS Full Power is just SS Berserk + Ikari/Rage form.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:54 am

Though we havent gotten an explanation yet as to why the hair is green and they bulk up (aside from Kale being inspired by OG Broly and Broly having it as his iconic form), my personal headcanon is that it has to do with an abundance of midichloriansS-Cells that deviate from the normal Saiyan. A surplus, leading to this rare, green haired form.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:46 am

Is Broly's transformation actually ever canonically referred to as "Legendary Super Saiyan", insofar as it describes the form itself?

Dragon Ball has a habit of being somewhat vague when it comes to things like this. It kind of sounds like this is just the "main series term" for LSS.
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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:42 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:46 am
Is Broly's transformation actually ever canonically referred to as "Legendary Super Saiyan", insofar as it describes the form itself?
Daizenshuu 7 refers to him as the legendary Super Saiyan:

Broli
The legendary Super Saiyan
History:Born on Planet Vegeta, on the same day as Goku. Their incubators were also right by each other.
Special Characteristics: Because he had a high battle ranking from the time he was born, King Vegeta felt he was a threat, and tried to have him and his father Paragus done away with. He and Goku’s fate became intertwined after Goku, who was in the incubator next to him, made him cry.
Techniques:He becomes the legendary Super Saiyan and displays an uncontrollable violent personality.
Battles: He was defeated by Goku on New Planet Vegeta after Goku received power from his allies (Daizenshuu 6, p.106). Afterwards, he flew to Earth in a space pod, and battled Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (Daizenshuu 6, p.124).

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:20 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:42 am
Cursed Lemon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:46 am
Is Broly's transformation actually ever canonically referred to as "Legendary Super Saiyan", insofar as it describes the form itself?
Daizenshuu 7 refers to him as the legendary Super Saiyan:

Broli
The legendary Super Saiyan
History:Born on Planet Vegeta, on the same day as Goku. Their incubators were also right by each other.
Special Characteristics: Because he had a high battle ranking from the time he was born, King Vegeta felt he was a threat, and tried to have him and his father Paragus done away with. He and Goku’s fate became intertwined after Goku, who was in the incubator next to him, made him cry.
Techniques:He becomes the legendary Super Saiyan and displays an uncontrollable violent personality.
Battles: He was defeated by Goku on New Planet Vegeta after Goku received power from his allies (Daizenshuu 6, p.106). Afterwards, he flew to Earth in a space pod, and battled Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (Daizenshuu 6, p.124).
Interestingly for October's shitty Ichiban Kuji Bandai labelled the '93 Broly as just "Super Saiyan" yet in the description talks of him becoming the LSS.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:05 am

My take has always been that the forms are indeed fundamentally the same, but because of the differences between Universe 6 and 7 Saiyans, they manifest differently.

With Kale, she couldn't tap into her latent Oozaru potential in her base form like Broly did, so when she raged out, she instead raged out with Oozaru power directly with her Super Saiyan form, instantly blending the 2 instead of building up to it. As a consequence, the form builds up in power much like how Broly's Oozaru power did, but only in that form.

With Broly, from the get-go as a Universe 7 Saiyan, he raged out with Oozaru power from a very early age. Thus, his base form builds up with that power to start off and builds up like Kale's SSFP form. Because of this, he goes from Oozaru Base to Oozaru Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan Full Power and caps off at each stage.

My headcanon is that Universe 6 Saiyans in general have access to their latent Oozaru power due to evolving past the need for tails, explaining why they're much stronger than their Universe 7 counterparts; this is in addition to being nice people who train and survive together, thus also allowing them to get stronger without dying and killing each other for being weak.

For me, Broly and Kale display the same mutation of being able to tap into deep wells of Oozaru power that makes them uncontrollable, but Kale's overall disposition difference manifested the blending of Oozaru and Super Saiyan differently. She was timid and self-loathing, and thus couldn't properly rage out in base form like the more ferocious and aggressive Universe 7 Saiyans such as Broly.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:12 am

we have:

Trunks' Super Saiyan Rage
Kale's Berserk
Classi Broly's SS4 Full Power
Broly:BR's Rage
Broly:BR's SS Full Power
Cumber's SS3 Full Power
Goku:CC's Super Saiyan 2 Berserk
Goku:GT's Super Full Power Saiyan 4

Let's ignore Goku's SS2 Berserk, it was just SS2 Goku made crazy by external forces.
Similarly, we can ignore Goku:GT because his power-up was caused by external factors.

Broly: BR bulks up some when going Rage
Trunks first bulks up, then slims down when going SS Rage.
Broly:BR, Cumber and Broly SS4 all bulk-up going Full power
Kale bulks up going Berserk, but slims down evolving to SS2


Personal hypothesis:
Full Power is basically SS+Ozaru Power to some degree. Like, they get angry enough they access it.
(in Classic Broly's case, replace Ozaru Power with the source of his Legendary form power.)

Kale's Berserk and Broly:BR's Rage work specularly, though:
Kale gets the power because she goes crazy
Broly:BR goes crazy because he gets the power

The only one not fitting anywhere is Trunks, but his rage form never made much sense.
IMHO he was going SS Full Power with the bulking up included, but then he got charged on Genki which caused him to slim down and would explain the absurd power-up.
A more extreme version of that would happen with the Genkidama sword.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by AnimeNation101 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:48 pm

Buffed up, green-ish yellow hair, green arua, berserk, lose pupils, immense power.

Yeah I’d say the are. Any differences can be chalked up to U6 saiyan evolution or some shit.
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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Super Murjin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:08 pm

We need a new official guidebook or essential guide to clarify a lot of these questions we have. :crazy:

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by YonedgeHP » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:41 am

Grimlock wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:20 am
Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:47 am
introduced by Universe 6 Saiyan Kale. We would later find out this form would be called Super Saiyan Berserk.
Where, exactly? I don't remember the series nor any promotional material calling her transformation "Super Saiyan Berserk". NeitherDragon Ball: Dokkan Battle nor Dragon Ball Heroes acknowledge it as such. See the lack of "Super Saiyan"? It's just "berserk" without the actual name of the transformation. Which means it is the character itself who is in the state of berserk, the transformation might something else (kinda similar to Ultra Instinct's situation. That name refers to the technique, but the change in appearance in Goku still has no actual name).
Actually, there has been official instances of the form being called Super Saiyan Berserk/Super Saiyan (Berserk), or 超サイヤ人暴走 (Sūpā Saiya-jin Bōsō) in Japanese.
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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:34 pm

yes, but those are working definitions used while making the show, not official names.
Vegeta's Blue Evolution is just called "SSBlue reinforced", for example.

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Re: Are Super Saiyan Berserk and Super Saiyan Full Power the same form?

Post by Rakurai » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:19 am

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:47 am
And I know there's gonna one guy that's gonna bring up the other Super Saiyan Berserk form Goku used in Heroes, but that's not canon, so it doesn't count.
What an ironic statement because whenever we're missing names for forms which are never given either an explanation or an official name in the main series, fans always resort to the name given by Heroes. As in the instances of Rage FTrunks and Sparkles Vegeta, where both names "Super Saiyan Rage" and "Super Saiyan Blue Evolution" are originally derived from the SDBH.

If SDBH doesn't count because it's not "canon," then none of these names should count either, and we should pull in FTrunks into this category of white-eyed "pissed-off Super Saiyans" (my own term for classification).
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