The FUNimation Dub's "Story" Changes

[Super Sonic]

And for the original Japanese music, I kind of agree that Cha-La-Head-Cha-La would be pretty ridiculous. It's a great song, but for DBZ? I would understand if DBZ started out like Dragon Ball, but it didn't. Right from the get-go they had Raditz and just down and dirty fighting. I mean I find it very weird that it's blood shed, blood shed, punches, kicks, energy balls, bones cracking, "I'm gonna kill you, you bastard!" "Die scum bag!" And then transition into, "Breaking through shining clowds, tra-la-la-lala" But I would rather have them put in the Barney theme song than listen to the one they have for the US opener on the Season Sets! What set of instruments did they harass to come up with that noise?

Think that's why it was replaced. Not actiony enough. But also feel the same on watching sad depressing moments on Bleach then sees it break out into "Happy People".

[TheGreatness25]

That's what I'm saying. Anyone can argue that it was a great opener all they want, nobody is disputing that. But on a show primarily dealing with fighting, it's a poor opener. I mean the entire Frieza Saga was pretty mcuh depressing, and it would begin with the happy-go-lucky Cha-La-Head-Cha-La (I hate writing that), and end with...that weird song about popcorn showers and whatnot.

[Vegard Aune]

That's what I'm saying. Anyone can argue that it was a great opener all they want, nobody is disputing that. But on a show primarily dealing with fighting, it's a poor opener. I mean the entire Freeza Saga was pretty mcuh depressing, and it would begin with the happy-go-lucky Cha-La-Head-Cha-La (I hate writing that), and end with...that weird song about popcorn showers and whatnot.

I totally agree that ZENKAI Power didn't fit DBZ at all, but Head-Chala isn't THAT bad. At least it fit more than the 7th One Piece-opening.

[Jerseymilk]

And for the original Japanese music, I kind of agree that Cha-La-Head-Cha-La would be pretty ridiculous. It's a great song, but for DBZ? I would understand if DBZ started out like Dragon Ball, but it didn't. Right from the get-go they had Raditz and just down and dirty fighting. I mean I find it very weird that it's blood shed, blood shed, punches, kicks, energy balls, bones cracking, "I'm gonna kill you, you bastard!" "Die scum bag!" And then transition into, "Breaking through shining clowds, tra-la-la-lala" But I would rather have them put in the Barney theme song than listen to the one they have for the US opener on the Season Sets! What set of instruments did they harass to come up with that noise?

Think that's why it was replaced. Not actiony enough. But also feel the same on watching sad depressing moments on Bleach then sees it break out into "Happy People".

Hey that panning shot with 11th Division when that song is playing is awesome and you know it!

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Onikage725]

Ditto that on WGP. Took me years to even give a crap about Cha La after I saw movie 12, because I was obsessed with the other intro.

But I don't think Cha La is as crazy as all that. Ok yes it is, but it isn't abnormal. Happens a lot in Japan, but it sometimes occurs in American cartoons too. Everything from Thundercats urging us to "feel the magic" to the Teen Titans opener (two drastically different eras, I know). And the GI Joe theme, while appropriate, is all kinds of corny. And how excitingly happy does the Robotech theme sound? Considering that you were then thrust into the shoes of people stuck in the middle of nowhere getting dry humped up and down the solar system by a race of genocidal giants.

But they could have adapted Cha La too, similar to Sailor Moon's opening. Or even a different one... honestly I wouldn't have minded a different opening as long as it was intact on the DVDs. That was pretty much standard across the board until the turn of the century. Call me weird, but I actually preferred "Rock the Dragon" to everything we've had since, cute little DB adaptations aside.

[Super Sonic]

Who would you have had sing it Onikage? Me, only person I can picture singing an English version of Cha-La is Sandy Fox.

[TheGreatness25]

We Gotta Power is a lot more fitting for the series. And the music during the title card is cool too.

[masenko]

We Gotta Power is a lot more fitting for the series. And the music during the title card is cool too.

I agree. "We Gotta Power" is, in my opinion, the most appropriate opening song since "Makafushigi Adobenchaa!". However, the eye-catch music borrowing from "Cha-la Head Cha-la" is one of my favorites.

[TheGreatness25]

I also think it's weird in the Cha-La-Head-Cha-La opener and the Zenkai Power closing that it's very weird to see a 4 year old Gohan since...well... He's only been seen dressed that way in like the first few episodes. I'ts a bit weird seeing Super Saiyan 2 Gohan fight off Cell and have the episode end with a 4 year old Gohan walking on a hill for a minute and a half. Same goes for the opener.

[Onikage725]

Who would you have had sing it Onikage? Me, only person I can picture singing an English version of Cha-La is Sandy Fox.

Hah they coulda used the english Kageyama track. They never would, but that would have made me feel squishy on the inside.

EDIT- just found this... wth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pZHYUJim7k
lol

I also think it's weird in the Cha-La-Head-Cha-La opener and the Zenkai Power closing that it's very weird to see a 4 year old Gohan since...well... He's only been seen dressed that way in like the first few episodes. I'ts a bit weird seeing Super Saiyan 2 Gohan fight off Cell and have the episode end with a 4 year old Gohan walking on a hill for a minute and a half. Same goes for the opener.

Heh, the clips for RtD weren't much better. Cant speak for the post-reboot intros, cuz I'm only familiar with the CN openers and the one with random music over Cha La visuals.

[LegendarySSJ7]

And, of course, just before Gohan goes SS2, we hear Gohan's "dub" thoughts when the original only had Spirit vs. Spirit playing.

Which was an improvement, as far as I was concerned. Nothing but the BGM there was a bad choice on Toei's part. Lack of connection to a character reduces emotional impact~

I concur, to an extent. A connection to a character on an emotional and personal level is more poignant and powerful than larger events (such as explosions and battles) that are abashingly contrived at best. But I feel the Japanese version worked better with the duly-noted briefness on an emotional level, as well as the silent mood that worked well with the quick actions and #16's dialogue, followed by Spirit vs. Spirit, which, to me, set the tone well.

Then again, the Manga hit that scene best for me, like art in air.

But besides being disrespectful to the original material, FUNimation adding dialogue at their leisure that wasn't present in the original draws in more ire than pleasure, in my view.

[Vegard Aune]

Hah they coulda used the english Kageyama track. They never would, but that would have made me feel squishy on the inside.

EDIT- just found this... wth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pZHYUJim7k
lol

What's there to be confused about? It's just the Age of Wonder-version of Head-Chala... Which I like much better than Kageyama's english version by the way, as you can actually understand the lyrics in this one.

[Onikage725]

Hah they coulda used the english Kageyama track. They never would, but that would have made me feel squishy on the inside.

EDIT- just found this... wth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pZHYUJim7k
lol

What's there to be confused about? It's just the Age of Wonder-version of Head-Chala... Which I like much better than Kageyama's english version by the way, as you can actually understand the lyrics in this one.

I wasn't "confused." I'd just never heard of it before. Or Age of Wonder, for that matter. And it is easier to understand than Kageyama's, but Kageyama's is funny to listen to for that very reason.

[Brakus]

Sean Schemmel, on the Japanese theme song "Head-Cha-La":
"Head-Cha-La," for another example and I've told you this Jon, even though it's very catchy, it's absolutely ridiculous for the American culture.

What? He's right, you know. Have you even seen the lyrics? They song's fun and catchy but it's absolutely absurd and really doesn't fit with the show.

Hm, song implies a child's wonder with the world and complete lack of worries...

Gohan is an innocent child who is fascinated with the world, and Goku shares a similar innocent view of the world and seemingly has no worries...

Yep! Doesn't fit with the show in the least ;p

I love Cha-La to death; it's one of those stalwart songs I know by heart and can sing in a heartbeat. The music just gets me pumped up every time I hear it. However, the lyrics (at least, when you discover the English translation) are indeed a little bit silly. The delivery of the lyrics by Kageyama-sama help make the song a true classic IMO. It's all in how the song sounds and feels, and not necessarily for lyrical relevance.

That being said, it still disappoints me that (except for the Bardock TV Special re-release) Cha-La doesn't appear in the English Dub/Japanese BGM track, replaced by something that would fit more on an Aaron Spelling-produced nighttime drama. I personally think that in about 90% of all instances, an anime's OP should be in Japanese; it's difficult to pull off an English version that actually sounds decent. (I'd have preferred to hear the Babystars' Japanese version of "Hikari E" on One Piece instead of Vic Mignogna's English version, for example.)

Sonny Strait, North American VA for Krillin, on FUNimation's new music score:
I think the main thing about them not using the original music, and I could be wrong, is because of the dated factor of it...But uh, there's definitely an appeal to it, but I don't think that it's as wide a range of appeal as what they want. I mean, people like you, and others that are die-hard anime fans are definitely gonna want as much of the original as possible, but I think the general population is more entertained by screaming guitars and such.

Another solid point. Loud rock music = popular. Orchastrated non rock music = not as popular.

Uh...the BGM that FUNimation had composed was not rock music. I take offense to the suggestion as a musician. At best it was uber generic faux-techno/rock/mishmash.

This is what bit DBZ in the be-hind the first time around, not using the original BGM, strictly as a business decision. (Initial D's Eurobeat music, prominently featured in the anime, was taken out of the English dub; I still believe this was one of the reasons it tanked in the U.S. No definitive reason was ever really given why the Eurobeat music was taken out of the English dub.)

DBZ's music may be dated and sometimes melodramatic, but to me it fits the mood of the episodes better than Bruce Faulconer's or Mark Menza's music. Not to mention that a lot of DBZ music echoes the theme at the time (Cha-La or We Gotta Power).

[TheGreatness25]

I have a post somewhere on here that explains why they couldn't use the original music.

[Vekurotto]

Yes TheGreatness25 they couldn't use the original music back in the Saban/Funi era where they hacked the episodes but I think you're missing the point back in 1999, about Funi not cutting anything. The English episodes and the original episodes were the same length by the time they got to the "Ginyu is Goku and Goku is Ginyu" episode. So how is timing a problem when the episodes were the same length?

When you say "Cha-La" transitions badly, why aren't you complaining about the use of "Mystical Adventure" in the dub of the Piccolo Daimao and 23rd Budokai arcs? Last I checked, pretty much the same or worse amount of violent content happened those arcs of Dragonball than in "Z". You also say the OP of "Cha La" is too whimsical when "Mystical Adventure" obliviously has the same amount of whimsical feeling if not more. Yet somedays on TV, after DB was done on toonami and on regular CN, we got the full "Mystical Adventure" OP. I guess a lot of people must have laughed and changed the channel or thought the OP wasn't actiony enough huh? As I said before, if Funi had made some sort of attempt to use the original OP rather than doing their own this would not even be an issue.

Also once Funi took over did anybody ever see anything other than the Toonami OP of DBZ let alone any series they aired on TV? Aren't you forgetting that no original OPs and EDs were ever shown on TV during that time and if you wanted them you had to buy the DVDs. So what should Funi have done? They should have left "Cha-La" as is on the DVDs without having to switch to Japanese audio first and on the uncut VHS tapes. There was really nothing stopping them, as shown by the "remastered" Bardock special, the original dubs of DBZ Movies 1-3 and it would've made the people that actually cared happy since, as some of you point out, "kids don't care and will watch anything". Point is, if they knew that DBZ OPs and EDs were never going to air on TV, then why still go through the effort to make ignorant assumptions that says that "kids" wouldn't like them so we won't use them when last I checked the only people that could actually buy Funi's products back in the day were people with jobs, were the more hardcore fans, and were over the target demographic. Does "For ages 13 and up" sound familiar to anybody? Oh yeah, not even close to the age range Funi said they were trying to appeal to in the first place. And last I remembered, when DBZ was on toonami the Uncut VHSs and the DVDs were so expensive that no kid could buy them. I just turned 11 when the Funi dubbed DBZ episodes first aired and only got 10 bucks every two weeks for allowance. TV was my only source to see this crap. There was no way in hell I was going to wait nearly six weeks so I could buy the Japanese verison(which is essentially all Funi's dvds were good for since the edited and the uncuts were nearly the same). So why were they assuming that just because their DBZ was supposed to be appealing only to kids that they put "13 and up" on the back and tried to sell their DVDs for prices that they knew no kid could buy with an allowance and parent would buy since there's a fucking advisory saying that "this dvd is for people 13 and up and contains some violence and nudity"? And again if Funi knew that the only people that would ever buy the DVDs were people over the demographics they were looking for, why should they have to suffer through Funi's broken scheme to appeal to kids when obviously the DVDs and their blatant advertising of "uncut" showed otherwise in the sense that they were making their uncut dub versions this ultra-violent orgy with swearing and anything imaginable when it's the same fucking thing as the edited version. How do you say that to the older fans that bought the uncut verions back in the day and weren't introduced to this through toonami. "Oh yeah I forgot Funi dubbed this to appeal to ADD kids so don't mind that "13 and up" it's the same thing as the TV version." And there goes another person that says DB is a crappy show.

Personally I wouldn't have minded Funi's dub scheme if they did it for the edited version only. If they would've made one dub that followed their 4kids-esque edit, and another dub that was closer to the original and pleased people that are fans of the series but was only available through DVDs and uncut VHS tapes it would've been great. Every-fucking-body would have been happy at some point or another. But the fact that their oversimplified Funiball Z transfers over to the uncut dubs which are supposed to be for an older audience that cared enough to spend insane amounts of money to watch a version without TV edits and as close to the original in dubbed from as possible, upsets me. Funi's theories for this anime were broken and it plainly shows.

[Raki]

Also once Funi took over did anybody ever see anything other than the Toonami OP of DBZ let alone any series they aired on TV? Aren't you forgetting that no original OPs and EDs were ever shown on TV during that time and if you wanted them you had to buy the DVDs. So what should Funi have done? .

Well after Dragonball had finished its run on Toonami, it aired on Saturday nights. Does anyone remember the Saturday Video Entertainment System(SVES)? It was a throwback to 80's gaming era that had lots of action cartoons. Kenshin aired on there, DBZ, among others. Dragonball had its full OP and cut ending when it aired on the block.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoon_Ne ... ing_blocks
Saturday Video Entertainment System

The Saturday Video Entertainment System was a Toonami-like block of action animation airing Saturday nights from March 15, 2003 to April 10, 2004. SVES was packaged like a video game, with a Samus Aran-like character in bumps reminiscent of older arcade/SNES game design. This block was also designed by Williams Street.

[Onikage725]

Eh, the reason I think it came down to revenue. Rather than pay royalties for someone elses music (with the insert songs at least), they can generate royalty rights of their own for the whole show and sell their own CDs.

Every argument about demographics makes it sound like the DBZ OST is full of like... I dunno... Crouching Tiger-style music. I'm sorry, but orchestrated doesn't mean oriental. The music in DBZ, aside from OP/ED themes, insert songs, and stuff centered around Budokais (which is more prominent in DB, which ironically DOES use the original BGM tracks) isn't super-ethnic in any real way. The japanese DBZ CDs still sell well the world over, while the US stuff rusts on amazon for bargain prices. There is nothing exclusively non-western about an orchestrated score, as Kunzait mentioned earlier. If I'm wrong, explain why attaching the names Danny Elfman or John WIlliams to a production does nothing but bolster the project as a whole.

Don't believe me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wilPJhR3t7U

[Vekurotto]

Also once Funi took over did anybody ever see anything other than the Toonami OP of DBZ let alone any series they aired on TV? Aren't you forgetting that no original OPs and EDs were ever shown on TV during that time and if you wanted them you had to buy the DVDs. So what should Funi have done? .

Well after Dragonball had finished its run on Toonami, it aired on Saturday nights. Does anyone remember the Saturday Video Entertainment System(SVES)? It was a throwback to 80's gaming era that had lots of action cartoons. Kenshin aired on there, DBZ, among others. Dragonball had its full OP and cut ending when it aired on the block.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoon_Ne ... ing_blocks
Saturday Video Entertainment System

The Saturday Video Entertainment System was a Toonami-like block of action animation airing Saturday nights from March 15, 2003 to April 10, 2004. SVES was packaged like a video game, with a Samus Aran-like character in bumps reminiscent of older arcade/SNES game design. This block was also designed by Williams Street.

Yes that is true, but I did say that after Toonami airings were over, DB's "Mystical Adventure" aired on TV. My point was the way that Funi treated "Cla-La" really seems to go out the window when a song like "Mystical Adventure" comes on American TV and nobody gave two shits about it.