Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Well, the poll ended with 65% in favor of 4:3. Let's see what happens now.

It comes out as 16:9 anyway.

Which is exactly what happened when FUNi released the DBZ Season BD's, and as we know they put out a very similar poll to the one Selecta Vision did here many months prior to the release and apparently the results were not too dissimilar. Even with this, they still disregarded/ignored the results internally and went with the cropping because apparently they looked at the Orange Bricks and thought "Yeah, let's recycle that method only very slightly improved from before." and really doubled down on their reasoning for going with the widescreen aspect ratio yet again.

Here are some tidbits from the Q&A that Kanzenshuu did with FUNimation at that point back in 2013, which reveals just how much they were trying to defend and justify their decisions and the reasoning (or lack thereof) for doing the Season Blu-ray's the way they did. I am hoping that Selecta Vision isn't really going down that same road because we know just how bad decisions like these have impacted almost all of the releases here over the past twelve years. No matter how much fans have tried to get them to do it right in the past they can't seem to comprehend rightly deserved criticism when called out, i believe the response paragraphs below from the article in particular highlights why they don't understand and can't just simply release the show un tampered with as originally intended in it's proper aspect ratio and not DNR'ed to hell.

Spoiler:

First off, going with widescreen over standard definition was a must. We understand the concerns with what is lost during the 4:3 to 16:9 conversion. To offset this loss, as much as possible, our remaster team conducted a precise, shot-by-shot reframing of every scene, in every episode. Where a normal, 4:3 to 16:9 conversion would automatically crop everything to a predetermined template, these individuals manually place the camera to ensure the optimal picture when converting from its native, full screen format. It solves the problem of losing vital content while still being able to deliver an experience that utilizes your modern television. We knew that this would be one of most controversial decisions with the release, which is why we went the extra mile to make the end result something diehard fans can appreciate. We’re really pushing for fans to not pass judgment on the widescreen conversion until they’ve had a chance to actually sit down and watch an episode.

For the Blu-ray Season Sets, we are going beyond the restoration process, further reducing noise and grain and reframing the presentation to the 16×9 aspect ratio. I wouldn’t really call this a “reversal in policy” as much as it is simply taking a different direction. It’s something that I know we’ve said a ton already, and we’re going to continue to do so, but the purpose of this release is to take an amazing, fan favorite show from 25 years ago and deliver that in a modern format that lives up to the experience many cartoon and anime watchers expect today.

As for the remastering, that’s always going to be a touchy subject. Everyone who consumes entertainment, whether it be movies, video games, or a television series, will have their own opinion of what the optimal experience is when enjoying that medium. The best we can do is listen to everyone’s feedback, as well as use the large amount of consumer data that’s at our fingertips, and make decisions that we feel most comfortable with.

The approach we’re taking with the Blu-rays is very similar to that of the Orange Bricks. We’re providing a viewing experience that’s current with today’s tech, while keeping the same episode count and low price point approach that has worked so well in the past.

For this Blu-ray release of Dragon Ball Z, we are creating a version that is fit for the modern era. A release that takes advantage of the 1080p, widescreen televisions and powerful Blu-ray players most people own today. A bolder, more vibrant Dragon Ball that both old and new fans can appreciate. In order to accomplish this, we had to change the remastering and restoration approach that we took with the Level Sets in 2011.

Secondly, we stepped up the level of detail in our remastering process. Along with the intensive process of fixing blemishes, tape marks, scratches, and foreign object, we’ve tweaked our color presentation to something vibrant and more exciting. The image is now sharper, by making it high definition and adjusting the noise (or grain) level. The textures of the Blu-ray version have been updated in a big way, putting them on par with animated shows being produced today. We look at each shot, and made sure everything is balanced, correct, cleaned up, and updated to mirror current visual aesthetics.

[LostTimeLord]

It's especially silly when you consider that, as cropping makes the framing tighter, it works against the larger screens we have now. If anything, you would want wider framing because it takes up more of your vision.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

"Going with widescreen over standard definition was a must"

You know because the level sets were not in widescreen but they were somehow not in standard definition either, how the hell did Funimation pull that off if they couldn't do it for the Season Blu-Rays two years later?

If anyone at Selecta Vision is reading this please don't buy into the ridiculous argument Funimation made to justify their cropping decisions.

[Scsigs]

"Going with widescreen over standard definition was a must"

You know because the level sets were not in widescreen but they were somehow not in standard definition either, how the hell did Funimation pull that off if they couldn't do it for the Season Blu-Rays two years later?

If anyone at Selecta Vision is reading this please don't buy into the ridiculous argument Funimation made to justify their cropping decisions.

There's confusion with a LOT of people that "HD = Widescreen," even when that's not the case whatsoever. Doctor Who was shot in widescreen from 2004-2008 from Chris Eccleston's first episode to David Tennant's first 2008 special, yet was still in 576i/480i. Star Trek TNG was still in 4:3, mostly due to the constraints from when they filmed it but still, when it got its HD remaster. Oftentimes before TVs went HD, it was usual that you got both since if shows or TV movies were future-proofed, then if shows were shot on film, they'd later be converted if possible. But then we have animation, which has to be blocked because, unlike live action stuff shot on film, there's no more area to expand the frames to. People don't know a lot about this stuff & they're being fed lies to sell shit by companies who only care about profits as opposed to actually creating a good product, which muddies the waters a lot.

On a similar subject, I literally had someone say to me the following:

Shot on film?
Anime is drawn, it isn't even meant to have film grain that's just a result of how to broadcasts work. Well, before digital cameras took over.

Which is NOT how filmmaking works whatsoever. Yes, anime is drawn, but only digitally drawn stuff doesn't have a lot of grain unless transferred to film. Honestly, the amount of dumb you'll find on the internet & the extents people will go to justify buying cheaply-produced crap is just astounding.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

"Going with widescreen over standard definition was a must"

You know because the level sets were not in widescreen but they were somehow not in standard definition either, how the hell did Funimation pull that off if they couldn't do it for the Season Blu-Rays two years later?

If anyone at Selecta Vision is reading this please don't buy into the ridiculous argument Funimation made to justify their cropping decisions.

There's confusion with a LOT of people that "HD = Widescreen," even when that's not the case whatsoever. Doctor Who was shot in widescreen from 2004-2008 from Chris Eccleston's first episode to David Tennant's first 2008 special, yet was still in 576i/480i. Star Trek TNG was still in 4:3, mostly due to the constraints from when they filmed it but still, when it got its HD remaster. Oftentimes before TVs went HD, it was usual that you got both since if shows or TV movies were future-proofed, then if shows were shot on film, they'd later be converted if possible. But then we have animation, which has to be blocked because, unlike live action stuff shot on film, there's no more area to expand the frames to. People don't know a lot about this stuff & they're being fed lies to sell shit by companies who only care about profits as opposed to actually creating a good product, which muddies the waters a lot.

On a similar subject, I literally had someone say to me the following:

Shot on film?
Anime is drawn, it isn't even meant to have film grain that's just a result of how to broadcasts work. Well, before digital cameras took over.

Which is NOT how filmmaking works whatsoever. Yes, anime is drawn, but only digitally drawn stuff doesn't have a lot of grain unless transferred to film. Honestly, the amount of dumb you'll find on the internet & the extents people will go to justify buying cheaply-produced crap is just astounding.

Yeah, there are indeed quite a few out there who just don't understand at all how series such as DBZ were produced in a time when most animated products were still largely copied onto film long before digital animation as we know it today since the early 2000's was even a thing. Those people such as the one particular person you mention there apparently seem to completely misunderstand the way in which these kinds of shows were animated by hand, and it's a major pitfall of FUNi's crap DNR process in that they aren't preserving the intended look of the series on top of the incorrect aspect ratio.

[KBABZ]

But then we have animation, which has to be blocked because, unlike live action stuff shot on film, there's no more area to expand the frames to.

Even this I find is a bit of a fallacy. Having worked in special effects and done my own student films, I'm very familiar with the fact that what's been shot is what's been shot. Camera not far enough to the right? Unless it was greenscreen there's NO WAY to fix it without re-shooting it. That's just the facts!

[PremiumSalt]

Going with widescreen over standard definition was a must.

This is like the third or fourth time I've read that Q&A over the years and that sentence still hurts my very soul whenever I read it.

On topic, I'm really uneasy about this release. The fact that 16:9 even crossed their mind does not bode well for how faithful they intend to be with their restoration.

[Scsigs]

Yeah, there are indeed quite a few out there who just don't understand at all how series such as DBZ were produced in a time when most animated products were still largely copied onto film long before digital animation as we know it today since the early 2000's was even a thing. Those certain people such as the one particular person you mention there apparently seem to completely misunderstand the way in which these kinds of shows were animated by hand, and it's a major pitfall of FUNi's crap DNR process in that they aren't preserving the intended look of the series on top of the incorrect aspect ratio.

Pretty much. In my opinion, it doesn't even take research into the subject to even begin to understand how this stuff is done, just a bit of common sense & thinking. It's helped with the fact that FUNi stupidly released the screenshots of the untouched film scans, which show what we COULD get with minimal clean-up of the scans & some light cropping to have the maximum amount of the frames possible in the shots. Seriously, it's like Channel Awesome's response to the claims against them last year. How did they possibly think that shit was gonna be in their favor?

Even this I find is a bit of a fallacy. Having worked in special effects and done my own student films, I'm very familiar with the fact that what's been shot is what's been shot. Camera not far enough to the right? Unless it was green screen there's NO WAY to fix it without re-shooting it. That's just the facts!

True. I was mainly talking about converting the shots from 4:3 to 16:9 though, like the X-Files, which wasn't technically future-proofed for its first few seasons or so, but the sides of the frames were opened up for those episodes when they remastered them into HD several years ago, since nothing would've been off about them, minus some weird blocking issues because they blocked for 4:3 originally. Probably the worst HD transfer of a live action series is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but that's probably off topic. Dragon Ball, Z, & GT were always blocked & shot for 4:3, so it's not possible to have them in true 16:9 ever unless Toei reanimated them, which, considering how they handled Kai & Super, I think we're better off not having for now.

[KBABZ]

True. I was mainly talking about converting the shots from 4:3 to 16:9 though, like the X-Files, which wasn't technically future-proofed for its first few seasons or so, but the sides of the frames were opened up for those episodes when they remastered them into HD several years ago, since nothing would've been off about them, minus some weird blocking issues because they blocked for 4:3 originally. Probably the worst HD transfer of a live action series is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but that's probably off topic. Dragon Ball, Z, & GT were always blocked & shot for 4:3, so it's not possible to have them in true 16:9 ever unless Toei reanimated them, which, considering how they handled Kai & Super, I think we're better off not having for now.

I think they're also zoomed in to account for frame jitter and the curves of the film frames themselves (which you can actually see in the Dragon Boxes).

[Scsigs]

I think they're also zoomed in to account for frame jitter and the curves of the film frames themselves (which you can actually see in the Dragon Boxes).

True, & I don't think I said any different. It makes sense to cut those off, otherwise the frames would look weird. It's the problem I have with The Beatles' film Help!, where it has a weird aspect ratio; 1.66:1, & the edges of the frames are rounded off for some reason on the corners because that's, I guess, where the film stock ended when they shot it, though that's extra weird because A Hard Day's Night was in the full widescreen aspect ratio & it came a year before & was in black & white rather than color. Go figure.

[sangofe]

Well, the poll ended with 65% in favor of 4:3. Let's see what happens now.

It comes out as 16:9 anyway.

Where do you have this information from?

[KBABZ]

I think they're also zoomed in to account for frame jitter and the curves of the film frames themselves (which you can actually see in the Dragon Boxes).

True, & I don't think I said any different. It makes sense to cut those off, otherwise the frames would look weird. It's the problem I have with The Beatles' film Help!, where it has a weird aspect ratio; 1.66:1, & the edges of the frames are rounded off for some reason on the corners because that's, I guess, where the film stock ended when they shot it, though that's extra weird because A Hard Day's Night was in the full widescreen aspect ratio & it came a year before & was in black & white rather than color. Go figure.

I actually kinda like it, and I totally wouldn't mind seeing rounded corners if it means we can see the whole frame. Of course, this assumes it doesn't reveal anything like that Gohan Masenko effect cut-off.

[Scsigs]

I actually kinda like it, and I totally wouldn't mind seeing rounded corners if it means we can see the whole frame. Of course, this assumes it doesn't reveal anything like that Gohan Masenko effect cut-off.

I mean, if it's a stylistic effect, I don't mind. A YouTuber, Vinyl Rewind, has a border around his videos that rounds off the corners of his videos. Scott the Woz also has an annoying ugly blue border around his videos for no reason as well. However, if the picture wasn't meant to be seen with them, I think it makes perfect sense to have the rounded edges cut off from view, particularly if it makes the aspect ratio weird.
The movies were meant to be seen in 16:9, hence why they were blocked to be that way, & I don't understand really why there's a contingent of fans who want the 4:3 versions because of that, outside of curiosity, particularly for that reason, though I'm given to understand that it was a one-off freak thing that happened by accident. Clearly, some things are meant to be seen only in 1 way & those artistic visions need to be respected.

[PremiumSalt]

I actually kinda like it, and I totally wouldn't mind seeing rounded corners if it means we can see the whole frame. Of course, this assumes it doesn't reveal anything like that Gohan Masenko effect cut-off.

I mean, if it's a stylistic effect, I don't mind. A YouTuber, Vinyl Rewind, has a border around his videos that rounds off the corners of his videos. Scott the Woz also has an annoying ugly blue border around his videos for no reason as well. However, if the picture wasn't meant to be seen with them, I think it makes perfect sense to have the rounded edges cut off from view, particularly if it makes the aspect ratio weird.
The movies were meant to be seen in 16:9, hence why they were blocked to be that way, & I don't understand really why there's a contingent of fans who want the 4:3 versions because of that, outside of curiosity, particularly for that reason, though I'm given to understand that it was a one-off freak thing that happened by accident. Clearly, some things are meant to be seen only in 1 way & those artistic visions need to be respected.

This. Frankly, expanding the frame to 3:2 or whatever the film print is in and even going as far as exposing the corners of the frame would be just as bad in my eyes as the cropping. It's changing the originally intended format of the show and goes against original artistic intent.

[KBABZ]

The movies were meant to be seen in 16:9, hence why they were blocked to be that way, & I don't understand really why there's a contingent of fans who want the 4:3 versions because of that, outside of curiosity, particularly for that reason, though I'm given to understand that it was a one-off freak thing that happened by accident.

I highly suspect the reason why they were animated in 4:3 was so that they could be screened on TV without having to zoom into the picture. If so, I think 4:3 is just as legit for viewing the classic movies as 16:9. The films were very clearly blocked to look good at both aspect ratios.

[sangofe]

Well, the poll ended with 65% in favor of 4:3. Let's see what happens now.

It comes out as 16:9 anyway.

Which is exactly what happened when FUNi released the DBZ Season BD's, and as we know they put out a very similar poll to the one Selecta Vision did here many months prior to the release and apparently the results were not too dissimilar. Even with this, they still disregarded/ignored the results internally and went with the cropping because apparently they looked at the Orange Bricks and thought "Yeah, let's recycle that method only very slightly improved from before." and really doubled down on their reasoning for going with the widescreen aspect ratio yet again.

Here are some tidbits from the Q&A that Kanzenshuu did with FUNimation at that point back in 2013, which reveals just how much they were trying to defend and justify their decisions and the reasoning (or lack thereof) for doing the Season Blu-ray's the way they did. I am hoping that Selecta Vision isn't really going down that same road because we know just how bad decisions like these have impacted almost all of the releases here over the past twelve years. No matter how much fans have tried to get them to do it right in the past they can't seem to comprehend rightly deserved criticism when called out, i believe the response paragraphs below from the article in particular highlights why they don't understand and can't just simply release the show un tampered with as originally intended in it's proper aspect ratio and not DNR'ed to hell.

Spoiler:

First off, going with widescreen over standard definition was a must. We understand the concerns with what is lost during the 4:3 to 16:9 conversion. To offset this loss, as much as possible, our remaster team conducted a precise, shot-by-shot reframing of every scene, in every episode. Where a normal, 4:3 to 16:9 conversion would automatically crop everything to a predetermined template, these individuals manually place the camera to ensure the optimal picture when converting from its native, full screen format. It solves the problem of losing vital content while still being able to deliver an experience that utilizes your modern television. We knew that this would be one of most controversial decisions with the release, which is why we went the extra mile to make the end result something diehard fans can appreciate. We’re really pushing for fans to not pass judgment on the widescreen conversion until they’ve had a chance to actually sit down and watch an episode.

For the Blu-ray Season Sets, we are going beyond the restoration process, further reducing noise and grain and reframing the presentation to the 16×9 aspect ratio. I wouldn’t really call this a “reversal in policy” as much as it is simply taking a different direction. It’s something that I know we’ve said a ton already, and we’re going to continue to do so, but the purpose of this release is to take an amazing, fan favorite show from 25 years ago and deliver that in a modern format that lives up to the experience many cartoon and anime watchers expect today.

As for the remastering, that’s always going to be a touchy subject. Everyone who consumes entertainment, whether it be movies, video games, or a television series, will have their own opinion of what the optimal experience is when enjoying that medium. The best we can do is listen to everyone’s feedback, as well as use the large amount of consumer data that’s at our fingertips, and make decisions that we feel most comfortable with.

The approach we’re taking with the Blu-rays is very similar to that of the Orange Bricks. We’re providing a viewing experience that’s current with today’s tech, while keeping the same episode count and low price point approach that has worked so well in the past.

For this Blu-ray release of Dragon Ball Z, we are creating a version that is fit for the modern era. A release that takes advantage of the 1080p, widescreen televisions and powerful Blu-ray players most people own today. A bolder, more vibrant Dragon Ball that both old and new fans can appreciate. In order to accomplish this, we had to change the remastering and restoration approach that we took with the Level Sets in 2011.

Secondly, we stepped up the level of detail in our remastering process. Along with the intensive process of fixing blemishes, tape marks, scratches, and foreign object, we’ve tweaked our color presentation to something vibrant and more exciting. The image is now sharper, by making it high definition and adjusting the noise (or grain) level. The textures of the Blu-ray version have been updated in a big way, putting them on par with animated shows being produced today. We look at each shot, and made sure everything is balanced, correct, cleaned up, and updated to mirror current visual aesthetics.

I know it did but you guys are just going from fear. This is not the same company. It makes no sense they'd do the same. Just fear would make assume so.

[KBABZ]

I know it did but you guys are just going from fear. This is not the same company. It makes no sense they'd do the same. Just fear would make assume so.

A lot of what Funimation did and does makes no sense either. Given the history of Dragon Ball home and streaming releases (which now includes Toei themselves), I don't blame them for thinking this may happen.

[sangofe]

I know it did but you guys are just going from fear. This is not the same company. It makes no sense they'd do the same. Just fear would make assume so.

A lot of what Funimation did and does makes no sense either. Given the history of Dragon Ball home and streaming releases (which now includes Toei themselves), I don't blame them for thinking this may happen.

I don't blame them either but this does come from fear. If it does happen and these are upscales too, then I will possibly never watch DB again. Not until a true remaster comes out. This would be the nail in my Fandom for sure.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I know it did but you guys are just going from fear. This is not the same company. It makes no sense they'd do the same. Just fear would make assume so.

A lot of what Funimation did and does makes no sense either. Given the history of Dragon Ball home and streaming releases (which now includes Toei themselves), I don't blame them for thinking this may happen.

I don't blame them either but this does come from fear. If it does happen and these are upscales too, then I will possibly never watch DB again. Not until a true remaster comes out. This would be the nail in my Fandom for sure.

I mean yeah i get it's a different distributor and all, but the fact they put out that 4:3 vs 16:9 opinion poll did actually concern me a little and you might say legit scared to some degree. I thought when seeing that "What, don't tell me they are doing the same thing FUNi pulled in 2013" and some here are just shaken by things such as those. Of course we obviously don't have concrete details on the specifics of the release including the actual transfer as of yet so it's just wait and see at this point.

[eledoremassis02]

This is because, again, FUNimations is just following a trend hollywoods been doing for years. It's not like DBZ has been released in the states way too many times, because people keep buying them and they need new reasons (that they can do legally) to release a new shiny release of Z thats cost effective. I work for a company thats owned by one if the biggest companies in thw world that gets billions a year from said company and everything is done on the cheap and easy and my jon acts like they have no money. I wouldnt be suprised if FUNi doesnt act the same way. I do hope future relases (this 30th set was started before the Sony thing?) They'll get accrss to Sony's equipment. The scans they have now could be improved (like that wavy thing the picture does on all of funi's HD release