"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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anubisj
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by anubisj » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:07 am

Toxin45 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:19 pm
Anyone surprise about the Cell Jrs returning?
What??

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:12 am

anubisj wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:07 am
Toxin45 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:19 pm
Anyone surprise about the Cell Jrs returning?
What??
Yeah there was a bonus chapter with gotten and trunks meeting the cell jrs they survived and were tamed by 17.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:42 am

I wasn't, not really. It makes sense for them to survive. Unlike the anime, the Jrs didn't explode when Gohan "killed" them, so they should be able to eventually regenerate.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:31 pm

(For Future References) in the event that Beerus & Goku have a rematch and Goku Defeats Beerus (Kills Him) who in universe 7 who is as strong as Goku & Vegeta would be a good fit as their next God Of Destruction ? Freeza or Broly ?

Freeza can breathe in the vacuum of space he's manage to decrease Sidra's Hakai Ball (Anime Filler) he trained to reach his golden form and surpassed SS3 Goku, Mystic (Potential Unelashed), Super Saiyan God in just a short amount of time A feat that was never seen before in Dragon Ball (I don't think)

Broly who grows ever more powerful the longer he fights and was regarded by Goku as possibly being stronger than Beerus which means he's in line with rare mortals who are above their Gods of destruction in battle power (and Destructive Power)

who do you think the GoD role will end up falling to ?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:52 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:31 pm
(For Future References) in the event that Beerus & Goku have a rematch and Goku Defeats Beerus (Kills Him) who in universe 7 who is as strong as Goku & Vegeta would be a good fit as their next God Of Destruction ? Freeza or Broly ?

Freeza can breathe in the vacuum of space he's manage to decrease Sidra's Hakai Ball (Anime Filler) he trained to reach his golden form and surpassed SS3 Goku, Mystic (Potential Unelashed), Super Saiyan God in just a short amount of time A feat that was never seen before in Dragon Ball (I don't think)

Broly who grows ever more powerful the longer he fights and was regarded by Goku as possibly being stronger than Beerus which means he's in line with rare mortals who are above their Gods of destruction in battle power (and Destructive Power)

who do you think the GoD role will end up falling to ?
Powerwise, Broly hands down, but maybe that isn't an issue, Toppo got a huge boost just from creating/summoning hakai energy, and I believe he could get even stronger once he embraces it or actually takes over the role.

But Freeza really has the perfect mindset for a Hakaishin, Broly is nice and all but is only a threat when he loses control, Freeza is as cold as you'd want a hakaishin to be, like U9's kaioshin said.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:08 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:52 pm
Toppo got a huge boost just from creating/summoning hakai energy,
That's anime canon, and doesn't even make sense in that context. This is a thread about the manga.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:23 pm

TKA wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:08 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:52 pm
Toppo got a huge boost just from creating/summoning hakai energy,
That's anime canon, and doesn't even make sense in that context. This is a thread about the manga.
Oh right, I totally misplaced my answer.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 am

TKA wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:52 pm
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:38 pm
I dunno. Seems like SS3 consumes less energy than SSG. Otherwise how would Goku drop from SSG (from not having enough energy to be/stay in the form) and still be able to use SS3?
Because SSG and SSB use god ki. If they got their god ki drained then they just can't sustain their god forms. It doesn't suggest that SS3 takes less ki to maintain.
Nothing seems to imply that SSG and SS3 use separate energy reserves in the body. When Goku goes SSG he isn't using a separate energy reserve, his ki itself becomes godly. Goku was running out of stamina and power, went from SSG to SS3.

Seems like SS3's stamina issue just isn't a problem for Goku anymore, considering how he's used it on 17 and Toppo so far, and SSG/SSB take more to use.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:13 pm

Based on the most recent two page chapter talking about cranberry, I’m thinking that the end of the arc will have them wishing back everyone killed by Moro and his men (similar to that of the wish made in the Freeza saga) and Cranberry won’t be brought back because you can’t bring people back more than once.

Seems like the logical conclusion.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:12 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:31 pm
(For Future References) in the event that Beerus & Goku have a rematch and Goku Defeats Beerus (Kills Him) who in universe 7 who is as strong as Goku & Vegeta would be a good fit as their next God Of Destruction ? Freeza or Broly ?

Freeza can breathe in the vacuum of space he's manage to decrease Sidra's Hakai Ball (Anime Filler) he trained to reach his golden form and surpassed SS3 Goku, Mystic (Potential Unelashed), Super Saiyan God in just a short amount of time A feat that was never seen before in Dragon Ball (I don't think)

Broly who grows ever more powerful the longer he fights and was regarded by Goku as possibly being stronger than Beerus which means he's in line with rare mortals who are above their Gods of destruction in battle power (and Destructive Power)

who do you think the GoD role will end up falling to ?
Freeza, absolutely. He's cold, ruthless and actually good at micromanaging.

Except he's evil. Like, hella evil. The most evil motherfucker alive, in fact. He would make a horrible God of Destruction.

Broly is good, but he would never accept the job. And really, the boy would be worse than Sidra. He hates violence, after all, and his temper problem would make him a horrible liability.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:42 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 am

Nothing seems to imply that SSG and SS3 use separate energy reserves in the body
God ki is literally different from regular ki. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is described as a saiyan turning Super Saiyan, but with god ki. They are two different resources
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:30 am

TKA wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:42 am
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 am

Nothing seems to imply that SSG and SS3 use separate energy reserves in the body
God ki is literally different from regular ki. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is described as a saiyan turning Super Saiyan, but with god ki. They are two different resources

Doesn’t really matter since there is nothing to suggest that Moro is draining one type of energy at a time, instead of all of it at once.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:08 pm

The last chapter has made it pretty clear that SSG consumes more energy than SS3, and that they are part of the same class of transformation boosts. In all instances of DBS, we've seen the ramp-up of Saiyan transformations, such as when he fought Toppo, or only using as much as he needs, like with FTrunks and Ranger 17.

Because if his god ki and regular Saiyan ki reserves were separate, based on the previously assumed logic he should've gone straight to base after running out of god ki. Instead, he reverted to SS3, which implies that either god ki simply requires a huge amount of regular ki to generate/maintain... or SSG runs on Goku's regular ki. I think we know which is more likely at this point.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:22 pm

TKA wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:42 am
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 am

Nothing seems to imply that SSG and SS3 use separate energy reserves in the body
God ki is literally different from regular ki. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is described as a saiyan turning Super Saiyan, but with god ki. They are two different resources
SSG transforms Goku's energy into godly energy. It's the same energy reserve but altered. It turns back when when he powers down.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Murjin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:12 pm

Is it possible that the SSG jump down to SSJ3 was just Toyotaro's way of showing that Goku has SSJ3 and Vegeta does not?

Or maybe due to Moro's energy drain being more of a magical ability rather than strictly energy absorption, Goku is warped from Saiyan form down to the next form. So in other words, Moro's abilities are not exactly playing by the rules when it comes to regular ki or god ki.

Not sure if that made sense. It would be nice if in a future chapter or interview this kinda thing would be explained better by the creators.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:31 pm

Or Toyo just thought it would look cool. Even Tori pulled shit like that for those reasons. Maybe it has meaning, but I wouldn't read too much into it just yet.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:40 pm

This scene does not necessarily seem to follow the logic of the highest-spending and least-spending transformations.

SSG Vegeta had its energy drained and returned directly to the base form. But soon after he still had the energy to turn into SSJ.

Like I said, it doesn't look like SSG uses more energy than SSJ3. Goku used unmastered SSB and Mafuba at the same time and still had enough power to use God. Even the current MSSB doesn't seem to be a problem for both of them anymore.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:11 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:40 pm
This scene does not necessarily seem to follow the logic of the highest-spending and least-spending transformations.

SSG Vegeta had its energy drained and returned directly to the base form. But soon after he still had the energy to turn into SSJ.

Like I said, it doesn't look like SSG uses more energy than SSJ3. Goku used unmastered SSB and Mafuba at the same time and still had enough power to use God. Even the current MSSB doesn't seem to be a problem for both of them anymore.
The reason Vegeta dropped to base was because he wasn't paying attention. Goku dropped from God to SSJ3 because he was still trying to stay transformed while going after Saganbo.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:55 am

The Apparant Chapter 51 leak

- Bulma Meets Goku at Galactic Patrol HQ
- Goku contacts Earth and informs Piccolo about Moro and Namek
- Vegeta Comes to Yardrat and sees Freeza Force s killing Yardratians.
- Vegeta deals with the Freeza Force
- Freeza Comes down from his ship to Yardrat to confront Vegeta

(Creds to GovetaXV on Twitter)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:51 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:40 pm
This scene does not necessarily seem to follow the logic of the highest-spending and least-spending transformations.

SSG Vegeta had its energy drained and returned directly to the base form. But soon after he still had the energy to turn into SSJ.

Like I said, it doesn't look like SSG uses more energy than SSJ3. Goku used unmastered SSB and Mafuba at the same time and still had enough power to use God. Even the current MSSB doesn't seem to be a problem for both of them anymore.
Vegeta made it pretty clear that his guard was dropped, and that's why his transformation failed him. Besides, it's irrelevant what form they transformed afterwards, because the unintentional transformation drop-down always follows a logical order of highest to least-spending transformations.

If Goku went down from SSG to SS, and then transformed into SS3 successfully, then yes we couldn't assume SS3 < SSG in terms of consumption... but Goku went from SSG to SS3, it makes literally zero sense to go from SSG to SS3 if SS3 consumed more energy and goes against Moro's magic logic.

We've even seen this in the anime. Goku goes SS3 against Caulifla and Kale and then drops down because he couldn't maintain the stamina. He didn't go SSG even tho it supposedly consumes less stamina. He continues to fight a little bit more, recovering stamina, and finally goes SSG. Now one can argue that he could maintain SSG longer because it consumes less stamina as he was fighting. On the other hand, one could also argue that he went SS3 prematurely and ran out because he wasn't at a state where he could hold it sufficiently, whereas he was "rested" enough for SSG. And we know SS3 wouldn't have cut it for Kale/Caulifla cause as we saw, SS2 Kale actually gave him a run for his money as a SSG.

And I think this Moro draining business basically gives us a very clear-cut answer.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

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