"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Block88 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:59 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:38 pm
Block88 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:29 am

Once again ur making up something that isn’t there we just saw gohan back in the chapter with nothing hinting him regressing
Wait until next chapter
I don't invent the dialogues .... he going from being the first to the third stronger, seems enough to me.
emperior wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:44 am
It’s funny how this chapter’s dialogue about how Goku achieved Ultra Instinct fits better with the anime than the manga.
So much for the “Ultra Instinct is the culmination of every teaching Goku received” thing the manga had going on.
It is simple everything about roshi and goku on the top arc never made sense if it is assumed that goku should not get the UI by own will ... and apparently it is already discarded.
And nothing stated he was truly stronger than goku and vegeta Hell krillin comment in the saga indicated he wasn’t far above them
Vados, Champa, kahseral, kefla >>>>>> krillin

the word of the gods, angels and warriors with scouter have more validities .... than krillin who doesn't even know how to feel the god ki

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm

Yasai9001 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:30 pm
:yawn:
supersaiyanZero wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:00 pm
I really wish Piccolo would stop being written like a little bitch.
Piccolo's fight here is very synonymous to his battle against Cyborg 17. The main reason why he was bound to lose that fight was due to the fact that 17 had infinite stamina.

With that said, do you expect Piccolo to face off with a guy who has knowledge on Piccolo's entire fighting style and is able to copy such for half an hour? On top of that, he has infinite durability and stamina. Oh, and Moro also powered up his minions with the use of his magic, so there's that as well.

Piccolo did his part and did so rather well, in fact.
Piccolo was a brilliant tactician that could hold his own against the fiercest warriors earth had to offer. Now he gets a few panels to job to some newly introduced fodder? Get out of here with that shit.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:10 pm

supersaiyanZero wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm
Piccolo was a brilliant tactician that could hold his own against the fiercest warriors earth had to offer. Now he gets a few panels to job to some newly introduced fodder? Get out of here with that shit.
I never saw that aspect of Piccolo's character in the original series. Like, ever.

Regardless, Toyotaro properly lays down the foundation for why OG73-I is a troublesome opponent, so it made sense for the battle to unfold in the way it did. I wasn't a case of Piccolo jobbing out. It was simply a case of unorthodox ability that, from Piccolo's perspective, he had no counter for.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yasai9001 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:23 pm

supersaiyanZero wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm
Yasai9001 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:30 pm
:yawn:
supersaiyanZero wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:00 pm
I really wish Piccolo would stop being written like a little bitch.
Piccolo's fight here is very synonymous to his battle against Cyborg 17. The main reason why he was bound to lose that fight was due to the fact that 17 had infinite stamina.

With that said, do you expect Piccolo to face off with a guy who has knowledge on Piccolo's entire fighting style and is able to copy such for half an hour? On top of that, he has infinite durability and stamina. Oh, and Moro also powered up his minions with the use of his magic, so there's that as well.

Piccolo did his part and did so rather well, in fact.
Piccolo was a brilliant tactician that could hold his own against the fiercest warriors earth had to offer. Now he gets a few panels to job to some newly introduced fodder? Get out of here with that shit.
Again, and I repeat; Piccolo goes to face off against an android who has infinite durbaility as well as stamina, who's also been powered up thanks to Moro's magic...and has a mimic hax. Piccolo isn't some ole bum who can just fight, he's smart, but he's not standing up against that. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:24 pm

Yasai9001 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:23 pm
supersaiyanZero wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm
Yasai9001 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:30 pm
:yawn:

Piccolo's fight here is very synonymous to his battle against Cyborg 17. The main reason why he was bound to lose that fight was due to the fact that 17 had infinite stamina.

With that said, do you expect Piccolo to face off with a guy who has knowledge on Piccolo's entire fighting style and is able to copy such for half an hour? On top of that, he has infinite durability and stamina. Oh, and Moro also powered up his minions with the use of his magic, so there's that as well.

Piccolo did his part and did so rather well, in fact.
Piccolo was a brilliant tactician that could hold his own against the fiercest warriors earth had to offer. Now he gets a few panels to job to some newly introduced fodder? Get out of here with that shit.
Again, and I repeat; Piccolo goes to face off against an android who has infinite durbaility as well as stamina, who's also been powered up thanks to Moro's magic...and has a mimic hax. Piccolo isn't some ole bum who can just fight, he's smart, but he's not standing up against that. Sorry to burst your bubble.
is a cyborg
Moro does not increase power to any of the criminals who are on earth .... they are fighting with their own power otherwise it would not be necessary for "the hit copy" to steal piccolo's powers

however piccolo's personality is correct ... he is tactical and skilled in combat but it does not help much against an equally strong opponent with his same abilities that does not lose energy

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:26 pm

I really enjoyed how hectic and fast-paced this chapter was. That quality was one of my favorite aspects of the Boo arc, and I'm glad to see that energy continuing here. The action in this chapter was a good balance rough, dynamic, and clean.

It feels like Yunba and Shimorekka are especially expressive to balance out how inexpressive 0G73-1 is. I think that was a good creative decision, and I really like their dynamic.

Jaco was great this chapter. What a prick. The Jaco/Piccolo dynamic is exactly my type of fan-service.

I really think the hedgehogs were a Sonic reference. Since Sonic borrowed Super Saiyan, it's only fair.

I don't see how one could come away feeling like Piccolo was treated poorly in this chapter. He had some badass lines and badass action scenes. When Seven-three stole Piccolo's powers, he used one of the hedgehog's abilities. You can tell because it flashed the hedgehog's face on his forehead gem before he got behind Piccolo. Whether he used a portal or teleportation or super speed, I'm not sure. Piccolo is a bit more thoughtful than most of Dragon Team, but I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say he's some sort of genius tactician (other than because the DBS anime straight-out said something like that once).

Don't count Tenshinhan out yet. The bit about him not having a phone was perfectly in-character (and awesome), and they didn't realize the invasion of earth was going to happen immediately. He surely senses what's going on here, and I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually landed a surprise attack, or joined Kuririn against Yunba.

Fuck yeah, Gohan. I'm interested in seeing where this goes, but regardless, I love that he showed up in his scholar clothes.

Goku saying he achieved Migatte no Gokui under life-and-death circumstances last time is not an inconsistency. Some people think that this line refers to the Genki Dama from the anime, but it doesn't. Surely the circumstances of the ToP qualify as life-or-death.

Vegeta's face at the end cracked me up.

While it doesn't feel like we're that much closer to fighting Moro, I can't say I feel like things are dragging. Looking forward to next month.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:05 pm

I don't remember if it was the same in the manga ... but it is not supposed that dende was who located Android 17?
they should have been able to find everyone without any problem :think:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:11 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:10 pm
supersaiyanZero wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm
Piccolo was a brilliant tactician that could hold his own against the fiercest warriors earth had to offer. Now he gets a few panels to job to some newly introduced fodder? Get out of here with that shit.
I never saw that aspect of Piccolo's character in the original series. Like, ever.

Regardless, Toyotaro properly lays down the foundation for why OG73-I is a troublesome opponent, so it made sense for the battle to unfold in the way it did. I wasn't a case of Piccolo jobbing out. It was simply a case of unorthodox ability that, from Piccolo's perspective, he had no counter for.
Brilliant tactician is an exaggeration, but the Android Saga and onward did paint him as someone that was more resourceful- getting Cell to lower his guard in order to find out who and what he was , being able to tell from the start that Android 21 was Doctor Gero. Nothing that extremely brainy from him but it was part of his character in Z.


Either way, I completely agree with the second part of your post

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:32 am

I enjoyed the chapter for the most part. Maybe a little too much telling than showing, but overall it's nice to have a chapter change things up from the standard fare. Despite saying Gohan is the strongest on earth now, I was honestly hoping 17 would come into play. I'm curious as to how he fares against a cyborg who can't run out of energy and always fight at 100 percent.

However if this guy also has the same infinite energy shtick as 17 and 18 I kinda wonder if he could just touch Moro and basically just do the same shit he does. It's opening pandoras box when a character has this kind of an ability to perfectly copy others strength and abilities somehow. This dude is kinda like A.M.A.Z.O....though he does have a 30 minute time limit which means if he does manage to copy someone perfectly he only has half an hour to get the job done or he's toast. Yet again we have another villain where inherit power strictly matters. I really like that. I did want more Piccolo. Maybe he'll inevitably help Gohan out when he recovers to get some comeuppance.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:31 am

So Seventhree has nothing to do with Hit besides similar designs? Same with the Bear guy and Botamo. That Metalman though better be U7's variation of Magetta!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:52 am

Michsi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:11 am
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:10 pm
supersaiyanZero wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm
Piccolo was a brilliant tactician that could hold his own against the fiercest warriors earth had to offer. Now he gets a few panels to job to some newly introduced fodder? Get out of here with that shit.
I never saw that aspect of Piccolo's character in the original series. Like, ever.

Regardless, Toyotaro properly lays down the foundation for why OG73-I is a troublesome opponent, so it made sense for the battle to unfold in the way it did. I wasn't a case of Piccolo jobbing out. It was simply a case of unorthodox ability that, from Piccolo's perspective, he had no counter for.
Brilliant tactician is an exaggeration, but the Android Saga and onward did paint him as someone that was more resourceful- getting Cell to lower his guard in order to find out who and what he was , being able to tell from the start that Android 21 was Doctor Gero. Nothing that extremely brainy from him but it was part of his character in Z.


Either way, I completely agree with the second part of your post
You would think this to be a perfect opportunity of Piccolo's fight with OG73-I being a rational lesson on the difference between knowing how to use someone's abilities versus knowing how to optimise them. I mean isn't Piccolo supposed to possess the clarity and focus of a being that presided over an entire planet for centuries as well as a birth-to-grave hermetic warrior trained in the ascetic way of pure combat all of his life? I don't think this machine or whatever could replicate their insight unless the duplication process also happened to entail the copying of memories and bodily instinct as well. I know this is Dragon Ball and that sort of thing doesn't have all that tangible of an impact but it has been brought up on occasion during the Cell and Buu arcs.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gt91 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:55 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:05 pm
I don't remember if it was the same in the manga ... but it is not supposed that dende was who located Android 17?
they should have been able to find everyone without any problem :think:
Yeah, you are right.
He knew his location in tha manga too (he said that he knows everything because he's kami).
I think that they know where is the island where he works and he has a cellphone as well (they contacted him in the last episode of the anime).

Maybe he's still busy with animals and he doesn't care xD

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yasai9001 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:18 am

Really looking forward to Gohan's fight with 73 and the result of Vegeta's training.

I understand that Vegeta is looking to go his own way and not follow in the foot-steps of Goku, but wouldn't some of you agree that it is safe to assume that Vegeta can be a step closer to attaining Ultra Instinct once he's completed his training revolving around balance of the mind and body. After all, learning to train himself to be focused and calm despite the serious circumstances can teach him to be less tense when it comes to battle. On top of that, he ought to have learned some techniques that'll help him be impregnable against Moro's magical attacks.

As for Gohan, I wonder if his ability to power up to a Super Saiyan will be copied as well--not to say that 73 will become a Super Saiyan, but will boost his power enough to do so. Not sure but it'd be interesting if he could. Can't wait to see how next chapter goes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:24 am

Yasai9001 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:18 am
As for Gohan, I wonder if his ability to power up to a Super Saiyan will be copied as well--not to say that 73 will become a Super Saiyan, but will boost his power enough to do so. Not sure but it'd be interesting if he could. Can't wait to see how next chapter goes.
I had the same thing in my head. Can 73 copy power-ups and transformations? He can apparently change his physiology according to the being that he touches. So, Super Saiyan, being a biological mutation and evolution of the species should be in his arsenal, should he touch Gohan of course.

At the same time, if it was Ultimate Gohan (a theory), since he is already in a transformed, potential unleashed state, unable to go SS, would 73 still learn to go SS, or at least his equivalent of the form?

Many questions that need to be answered. Except from the Tuffles, we haven't seen anyone imitating the Super Saiyan forms. That could be interesting to see. A new line of forms. Different in appearance but with the same boost as the normal ones.

Lastly, God Ki. I think that 73 shouldn't be able to recreate energies such as God Ki, evil ki/negative Ki and Vegeta's spirit energy. We will see.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yasai9001 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:40 am

Imagine 73 trying to copy God Ki, though it just has far too much pressure for him to handle, thus causing him to involuntarily shut-down.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:36 am

Lionel wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:52 am
Michsi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:11 am
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:10 pm

I never saw that aspect of Piccolo's character in the original series. Like, ever.

Regardless, Toyotaro properly lays down the foundation for why OG73-I is a troublesome opponent, so it made sense for the battle to unfold in the way it did. I wasn't a case of Piccolo jobbing out. It was simply a case of unorthodox ability that, from Piccolo's perspective, he had no counter for.
Brilliant tactician is an exaggeration, but the Android Saga and onward did paint him as someone that was more resourceful- getting Cell to lower his guard in order to find out who and what he was , being able to tell from the start that Android 21 was Doctor Gero. Nothing that extremely brainy from him but it was part of his character in Z.


Either way, I completely agree with the second part of your post
You would think this to be a perfect opportunity of Piccolo's fight with OG73-I being a rational lesson on the difference between knowing how to use someone's abilities versus knowing how to optimise them. I mean isn't Piccolo supposed to possess the clarity and focus of a being that presided over an entire planet for centuries as well as a birth-to-grave hermetic warrior trained in the ascetic way of pure combat all of his life? I don't think this machine or whatever could replicate their insight unless the duplication process also happened to entail the copying of memories and bodily instinct as well. I know this is Dragon Ball and that sort of thing doesn't have all that tangible of an impact but it has been brought up on occasion during the Cell and Buu arcs.

Maybe, but we don't have the time for it. One of the main reasons the manga version of the TOP was less liked was because of how badly it handled the side-characters as opposed to the anime which more or less gave everyone something to do and a moment in the hype spotlight - there is just no real time to devout to someone that doesn't have Goku or even Vegeta like level of popularity/ importance (believe me, it pains me to say this) The previous two chapters were used as a set-up for the confrontation that's about to take place on earth and it just so happened to have Piccolo in the forefront.
For now, this OG73 is the only other opponent aside Moro that seems to be worthy of any note and we have other fighers that need to have their turn. Now it's Gohan and I'm expecting 17 to show up as well. What you'd like to see happen is nice in theory, but unlikely to happen anymore. I know, this sounds super cynical.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:18 pm

Michsi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:36 am
Lionel wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:52 am
Michsi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:11 am


Brilliant tactician is an exaggeration, but the Android Saga and onward did paint him as someone that was more resourceful- getting Cell to lower his guard in order to find out who and what he was , being able to tell from the start that Android 21 was Doctor Gero. Nothing that extremely brainy from him but it was part of his character in Z.


Either way, I completely agree with the second part of your post
You would think this to be a perfect opportunity of Piccolo's fight with OG73-I being a rational lesson on the difference between knowing how to use someone's abilities versus knowing how to optimise them. I mean isn't Piccolo supposed to possess the clarity and focus of a being that presided over an entire planet for centuries as well as a birth-to-grave hermetic warrior trained in the ascetic way of pure combat all of his life? I don't think this machine or whatever could replicate their insight unless the duplication process also happened to entail the copying of memories and bodily instinct as well. I know this is Dragon Ball and that sort of thing doesn't have all that tangible of an impact but it has been brought up on occasion during the Cell and Buu arcs.

Maybe, but we don't have the time for it. One of the main reasons the manga version of the TOP was less liked was because of how badly it handled the side-characters as opposed to the anime which more or less gave everyone something to do and a moment in the hype spotlight - there is just no real time to devout to someone that doesn't have Goku or even Vegeta like level of popularity/ importance (believe me, it pains me to say this) The previous two chapters were used as a set-up for the confrontation that's about to take place on earth and it just so happened to have Piccolo in the forefront.
For now, this OG73 is the only other opponent aside Moro that seems to be worthy of any note and we have other fighers that need to have their turn. Now it's Gohan and I'm expecting 17 to show up as well. What you'd like to see happen is nice in theory, but unlikely to happen anymore. I know, this sounds super cynical.
You know I can't help but wonder what must go into Toriyama and Toyotaro's creative process during these types of moments. They want to maintain Goku and Vegeta's core dual-sided narrative yet take advantage of the familiar and popular supporting faces for some reason despite there seeming to be no long term plans for them.

How many criminals did Moro release from imprisonment in the first place? I mean I don't think it's outside of Toyotaro's ability to thoroughly flesh out the respective points of view of the Z-cast as they confront this new danger while interweaving their respective character nuances into the conflict. Still, instead it's like they want to continue with this gauntlet turn-slide mechanic of storytelling, at least when it comes to OG73.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 pm

Did Viz bring in a new junior translator or something? The dialogue struck me as really janky in this chapter. (Piccolo's "And no evildoers allowed on planet earth. So begone!" was really cheesy, and "They rampaged around the galaxy before great pains were taken to catch them" is such an odd bit of phrasing... Just doesn't read right to me)

Plus, there's this...?!
Image
Vegeta's really speechless at this development. :lol:

As for the chapter itself... Once again, Toriyama has come up with a creative new opponent for everyone to fight in Super, and once again that opponent is encased in a shell of zero personality... Ugh.

Nice to see more Piccolo, and really more of the non-Saiyans in general in this chapter. The shade thrown at Tenshinhan and Yamcha was funny too.

Honestly, I'm really just not feeling this arc. And I have a feeling, with Toei's awful, slow pacing they've always employed for Super, it'll come off even worse in anime-form, so I have no intentions of watching this when the anime comes back.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:35 am

Regarding Vegeta: I have this suspicion that the reason Goku was brought up as a comparison was to highlight Vegeta surpassing his performance on Yardrat in the end... he can't afford to stay that long so whatever he will achieve he will achieve it way faster than Goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:57 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 pm

As for the chapter itself... Once again, Toriyama has come up with a creative new opponent for everyone to fight in Super, and once again that opponent is encased in a shell of zero personality... Ugh.
We still don't know Toriyama's involvement in all of this. Personally I don't really feel Toriyama in this arc at all

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