Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:39 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:18 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:02 pm
I for the love of god cannot get blurays to play on VLC for some reason, even just playing the M2TS files
I find that it only works if you have some kind of decryption software.

Call me naive -- and I'm not saying that this theory isn't correct, because I'm more than sure that everyone knows what they're talking about -- but how could one tell if the grain is original or artificial? That's pretty fascinating attention to detail.
The grain appears to be bigger than the fine-grain they use in their filer (I'd assume it's 35mm grain they're using) and the fact that FUNi's masters have generations of grain in their print.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyanPan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:21 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:18 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:02 pm
I for the love of god cannot get blurays to play on VLC for some reason, even just playing the M2TS files
I find that it only works if you have some kind of decryption software.

Call me naive -- and I'm not saying that this theory isn't correct, because I'm more than sure that everyone knows what they're talking about -- but how could one tell if the grain is original or artificial? That's pretty fascinating attention to detail.
I use https://www.dvdfab.cn/passkey-for-blu-r ... =headmenu2 and VLC plays my Blurays and my 30th no problem. I think at one point I got VLC to play without this using some special files but that was WAY too hard. Yeah this software is expensive but it's good for a year and it's great! Plus I got tired of dicking with ways to get my BluRays to play and I do not like Leawo.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:00 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:18 pm
how could one tell if the grain is original or artificial? That's pretty fascinating attention to detail.
For me the tell is actually not the grain, but the backgrounds. Funi's watercolor'd backgrounds are pretty obvious even when a new grain layer is applied, because the DNR process removes detail that can't be recovered, and adds new adjustments that the second grain can't cover up.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:22 am

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:02 pm
Seeing it in motion, I'm pretty sure it's the original grain. The grain that is there has a very similar look towards the level sets and the backgrounds and such look better in motion.
I'm still not convinced. Again, grain wouldn't just be brightness changes like we see in the 30th sets, even in #126.
And again, the whole point of fake grain is it's supposed to look quite convincing. The giveaway is the overall picture is still super smeary and awful.

The final thing to consider is that Funi did add small amounts of fake grain in the Levels. Realistically, the level of grain in a real film print can vary throughout the picture, and from scene to scene. The level of grain in the Levels was very consistent, and this combined with some remarks in the documentary suggest they did add some to give a more consistent look.
So, what this means is that if you're expecting it to look like the Levels, you expect the grain to look quite even. And Funi's remastering engineers will have already put together a grain filter that matches the look of their real grain well enough to blend in for this effect on the Levels. So, they can just put this filter on the 30th sets, and they have a pretty good match for the original grain.

So... As I say, I'm not convinced this is real grain. Even though you do note from those tiny squares of screenshot above that this episode has more grain ("bigger", too), it's easily explained away as just being a higher setting on their grain filter. Given the ugly smeariness still present in the image, this seems the obvious thing. Yes, the 30th fake grain usually only really presents itself visibly as fine pinprick grain, but that's because it's on quite a low setting, so the "bigger" grain is just more subtle, less visible... Turn the filter up, and we get what we see here.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:02 pm
I for the love of god cannot get blurays to play on VLC for some reason, even just playing the M2TS files
Take a look here. Pay close attention to the fact that the two files it tells you to download do go in different folders (keys database goes in C:\ProgramData\aacs\, while the dynamic library goes in your VLC folder), and remember to redownload the keys database now and then.
Doesn't work for every Blu-ray, but should work for most.
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:18 pm
Call me naive -- and I'm not saying that this theory isn't correct, because I'm more than sure that everyone knows what they're talking about -- but how could one tell if the grain is original or artificial? That's pretty fascinating attention to detail.
1. The picture itself shows all the hallmarks of Funi's typical over-DNR and over-sharpening, showing that the original grain will be, at best, only very subtly present in the image.
2. With Funi's sharpening, the grain should show intense variations in colour, looking like a multicoloured noise across the image, since grain is naturally multicoloured, which normally isn't a problem, but if you put a sharpener on top of a grainy image, this subtle effect is multiplied into a very noticeable, frankly very ugly, texture. We're not seeing this.
3. As noted above, grain is multicoloured. The grain in this image is only present as variances in brightness. This means it's just a filter generating an artificial grain look; no real grain, not even a grain plate generated from real film.

The one point against is the fact the grain looks more intense on the right side of the frame compared to the left, which would be consistent with the presence of real grain. Could easily be a mis-calibration of the filter, or any number of other things. Perhaps there is a small amount of real grain here, and they really did use a slightly less intense DNR in this one episode, for some unknown reason.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:27 am

I never once mentioned the brightness tho and that wouldnt effect how it looks in motion. Lol but it's fine. If its in regard to the screenshots those are from different episodes (obviously) because i cant get a raw of that episode. But that funi's fake grain is quite obvious, I pointed it out when the set came out and even mentioned the level sets using fake grain on the title cards. To me the episode does look different than the two episodes sadwiched before it (and the rest of the set thus far). It wouldnt suprise me if funi forgot to do somthing. Didnt they did forget to add the text to a title card in the season blurays

As far as the grain being inconsistent could also be the compression. Rock the dragon has a similar issue with their grain and a lot lf animted shows get DNRed to hide compression (batman TAS is an example of this)

Also thabks for that link! Why does VLC make it such apain lol

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:48 am

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:27 am
I never once mentioned the brightness tho and that wouldnt effect how it looks in motion. Lol but it's fine. If its in regard to the screenshots those are from different episodes (obviously) because i cant get a raw of that episode. But that funi's fake grain is quite obvious, I pointed it out when the set came out and even mentioned the level sets using fake grain on the title cards. To me the episode does look different than the two episodes sadwiched before it (and the rest of the set thus far). It wouldnt suprise me if funi forgot to do somthing. Didnt they did forget to add the text to a title card in the season blurays
The brightness was in regards to your screenshots from your post on the previous page. It's a subtle thing, and not really something you'd notice watching in motion, but examining a screenshot, it's a hint that we're looking at fake grain.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:27 am
As far as the grain being inconsistent could also be the compression. Rock the dragon has a similar issue with their grain and a lot lf animted shows get DNRed to hide compression (batman TAS is an example of this)
It won't be. Again, it seems consistently inconsistent within a given frame; less grain on the left, more on the right. Probably just the filter wasn't calibrated properly for this episode. You noted the lack of title card text on the Season BD above, probably just another silly oversight on their part similar to that one.

Batman TAS is a good remaster, but arguably they did take the DNR too far; you don't need to pull it back to the level they did to have it play nice with compressors. As it stands, their DNR filter results in inconsistent sharpness in a given episode, though the overall detail level ends up just not being what it could be if they'd applied it with a more subtle hand. I highly doubt compression was the actual reason for them pulling the grain back. It'll just be to give it a flashy "clean" look.
Still a nice remaster, just a lot softer than it could've been.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:27 am
Also thabks for that link! Why does VLC make it such apain lol
lol. Happy to help. I think it's because technically the AACS keys aren't supposed to be distributed for free like this. They let you watch the Blu-rays you legitimately own, but in theory they can also be used to back them up to your hard drive, and then in theory you can put the contents of the discs up for torrenting, etc., which companies generally don't like. And because of these worries, it's generally been made a bit of a bugger to set up Blu-ray reading on PCs.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scavenger » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:02 am

VLC can also run Blu-ray via MakeMKV:
- Install MakeMKV
- Copy libmmbd.dll from the MakeMKV installation directory to the VLC installation directory twice
- Rename to libaacs.dll and libbdplus.dll
- Run MakeMKV once to activate (you don't have to turn on MakeMKV until the beta key expires)
- Run VLC

This method does not rely on a key database.

I personally don't recommend VLC and Leawo player for taking screenshots. Screenshots have the wrong colors because these use the Rec.601 color matrix to decode Rec.709 content. If you really need to use VLC to take screenshots, use the OpenGL renderer, print screen, paste in paint (The colors are only slightly off that way. I only use this method for taking Blu-ray menu screenshots)

MPC-HC with madvr, MPV, DGAVCIndex (m2ts / avc streams only) and a correctly configured VirtualDub2 (set to Rec.709) are far superior for screenshots.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:09 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:48 am
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:27 am
I never once mentioned the brightness tho and that wouldnt effect how it looks in motion. Lol but it's fine. If its in regard to the screenshots those are from different episodes (obviously) because i cant get a raw of that episode. But that funi's fake grain is quite obvious, I pointed it out when the set came out and even mentioned the level sets using fake grain on the title cards. To me the episode does look different than the two episodes sadwiched before it (and the rest of the set thus far). It wouldnt suprise me if funi forgot to do somthing. Didnt they did forget to add the text to a title card in the season blurays
The brightness was in regards to your screenshots from your post on the previous page. It's a subtle thing, and not really something you'd notice watching in motion, but examining a screenshot, it's a hint that we're looking at fake grain.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:27 am
As far as the grain being inconsistent could also be the compression. Rock the dragon has a similar issue with their grain and a lot lf animted shows get DNRed to hide compression (batman TAS is an example of this)
It won't be. Again, it seems consistently inconsistent within a given frame; less grain on the left, more on the right. Probably just the filter wasn't calibrated properly for this episode. You noted the lack of title card text on the Season BD above, probably just another silly oversight on their part similar to that one.

Batman TAS is a good remaster, but arguably they did take the DNR too far; you don't need to pull it back to the level they did to have it play nice with compressors. As it stands, their DNR filter results in inconsistent sharpness in a given episode, though the overall detail level ends up just not being what it could be if they'd applied it with a more subtle hand. I highly doubt compression was the actual reason for them pulling the grain back. It'll just be to give it a flashy "clean" look.
Still a nice remaster, just a lot softer than it could've been.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:27 am
Also thabks for that link! Why does VLC make it such apain lol
lol. Happy to help. I think it's because technically the AACS keys aren't supposed to be distributed for free like this. They let you watch the Blu-rays you legitimately own, but in theory they can also be used to back them up to your hard drive, and then in theory you can put the contents of the discs up for torrenting, etc., which companies generally don't like. And because of these worries, it's generally been made a bit of a bugger to set up Blu-ray reading on PCs.
I think we just gott agree to disagree on this one. If you can borrow a disc I think it's worth checking out. If I spot anything else i'll be sure to post it tho

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:24 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:09 am
I think we just gott agree to disagree on this one. If you can borrow a disc I think it's worth checking out.
Fair enough, man.
Though personally, I think I'll continue keeping my distance from this set. It's not to my taste, exactly. :lol:
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:09 am
If I spot anything else i'll be sure to post it tho
Thanks! It's good to have all this documented, and I appreciate you taking the time to do so. :)
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:44 pm

I know I'm a bit late with these, but...
Robo4900 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:40 pm
Again, it would have taken literally zero effort for Funi to have put the 30th set out using the Level masters of all 291 episodes. Everyone should know that despite having gorgeous HD masters in their vaults, Funi are giving us shit that barely has standard-def detail. And the only way for everyone to know, is to talk about it.
Remember, all the talk of how bad the OBs and Season BDs were was always contained to just the hardcore fans. The only time it got outside that, was when Geekdom finally manned up and put out his "Why the Orange Bricks suck" video... In which he was very kind about the Season BDs, and was nearly ten years late to the party on explaining to consumers why the OBs are a bad buy (therefore the damage was already done), and at that time we didn't know that Funi could've put out the Level masters for all 291 episodes for no cost... And then recently, when the 30th sets were announced and previewed, he was outright shilling for them, saying "This is probably just temporary masters, I heard Toei was doing a remaster!!" and such. He was cheering this shit on. And as far as the casual fans are concerned, he's the most knowledgeable voice on Dragon Ball.
You're really misrepresenting the situation for Geekdom. I remember most of what was said in the videos & he did NOT shill the season BRs. At all. The most he said that was positive was , "they're cheap & slightly better than the orange bricks," but he wasn't advocating people actually buy them, only that, if you MUST buy Z in those releases, know what you're getting. I distinctly remember one of the things he said about the remaster is that "it looks like a fucking flash cartoon," which is NOT a glowing endorsement if you even remotely know what flash animation is.

For the 30th anniversary set, you're also misrepresenting how his side of it went down too (though I'm not gonna say he was a complete saint on Twitter), his videos claiming the set was gonna be great were from BEFORE the thing was shown off & he was going off of things he'd heard himself through people who work for the companies involved. As Ajay said in the video where they discussed the set after those trailers & the shit blogpost, with Geekdom being told certain pieces of info in certain ways (in which case were clearly either lies, or the representatives not knowing much more & only going off of what they heard or were told to say), he was just going off of what he heard. Toei remastering the pre-2013 DB movies & the 2 Z TV specials last year combined with those certainly seemed to suggest something bigger was going on. Since everything wouldn't be fully revealed for a while, I'm not surprised ANYONE would think the best was happening. FUNi also already put out their shitty BRs back in 2014 anyways, so there was no reason to actually believe they'd go through the trouble of doing new sets themselves rather than Toei doing them for the anniversary, but that obviously wasn't the case. Geekdom then put out the video with Ajay to correct his earlier videos' mistakes of assumptions.

I get some people here REALLY hate Geekdom101, which you're free to do, but putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting what actually went on or the views he's actually expressed in his videos is REALLY disingenuous.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:13 pm
It's been 10 years since the Orange Bricks first came out. I think at this point, hopefully most of us who were around then have more important things to worry about than the umpteenth shitty release for Dragon Ball Z.
12, almost 13, actually.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by sangofe » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:46 am

Scsigs wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:44 pm
I know I'm a bit late with these, but...
Robo4900 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:40 pm
Again, it would have taken literally zero effort for Funi to have put the 30th set out using the Level masters of all 291 episodes. Everyone should know that despite having gorgeous HD masters in their vaults, Funi are giving us shit that barely has standard-def detail. And the only way for everyone to know, is to talk about it.
Remember, all the talk of how bad the OBs and Season BDs were was always contained to just the hardcore fans. The only time it got outside that, was when Geekdom finally manned up and put out his "Why the Orange Bricks suck" video... In which he was very kind about the Season BDs, and was nearly ten years late to the party on explaining to consumers why the OBs are a bad buy (therefore the damage was already done), and at that time we didn't know that Funi could've put out the Level masters for all 291 episodes for no cost... And then recently, when the 30th sets were announced and previewed, he was outright shilling for them, saying "This is probably just temporary masters, I heard Toei was doing a remaster!!" and such. He was cheering this shit on. And as far as the casual fans are concerned, he's the most knowledgeable voice on Dragon Ball.
You're really misrepresenting the situation for Geekdom. I remember most of what was said in the videos & he did NOT shill the season BRs. At all. The most he said that was positive was , "they're cheap & slightly better than the orange bricks," but he wasn't advocating people actually buy them, only that, if you MUST buy Z in those releases, know what you're getting. I distinctly remember one of the things he said about the remaster is that "it looks like a fucking flash cartoon," which is NOT a glowing endorsement if you even remotely know what flash animation is.

For the 30th anniversary set, you're also misrepresenting how his side of it went down too (though I'm not gonna say he was a complete saint on Twitter), his videos claiming the set was gonna be great were from BEFORE the thing was shown off & he was going off of things he'd heard himself through people who work for the companies involved. As Ajay said in the video where they discussed the set after those trailers & the shit blogpost, with Geekdom being told certain pieces of info in certain ways (in which case were clearly either lies, or the representatives not knowing much more & only going off of what they heard or were told to say), he was just going off of what he heard. Toei remastering the pre-2013 DB movies & the 2 Z TV specials last year combined with those certainly seemed to suggest something bigger was going on. Since everything wouldn't be fully revealed for a while, I'm not surprised ANYONE would think the best was happening. FUNi also already put out their shitty BRs back in 2014 anyways, so there was no reason to actually believe they'd go through the trouble of doing new sets themselves rather than Toei doing them for the anniversary, but that obviously wasn't the case. Geekdom then put out the video with Ajay to correct his earlier videos' mistakes of assumptions.

I get some people here REALLY hate Geekdom101, which you're free to do, but putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting what actually went on or the views he's actually expressed in his videos is REALLY disingenuous.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:13 pm
It's been 10 years since the Orange Bricks first came out. I think at this point, hopefully most of us who were around then have more important things to worry about than the umpteenth shitty release for Dragon Ball Z.
12, almost 13, actually.
Geekdom jumped to conclusions based off the TV specials remasters that were done earlier. That's all there is to this.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:39 am

Scsigs wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:44 pm
You're really misrepresenting the situation for Geekdom. I remember most of what was said in the videos & he did NOT shill the season BRs. At all. The most he said that was positive was , "they're cheap & slightly better than the orange bricks," but he wasn't advocating people actually buy them, only that, if you MUST buy Z in those releases, know what you're getting. I distinctly remember one of the things he said about the remaster is that "it looks like a fucking flash cartoon," which is NOT a glowing endorsement if you even remotely know what flash animation is.

For the 30th anniversary set, you're also misrepresenting how his side of it went down too (though I'm not gonna say he was a complete saint on Twitter), his videos claiming the set was gonna be great were from BEFORE the thing was shown off & he was going off of things he'd heard himself through people who work for the companies involved. As Ajay said in the video where they discussed the set after those trailers & the shit blogpost, with Geekdom being told certain pieces of info in certain ways (in which case were clearly either lies, or the representatives not knowing much more & only going off of what they heard or were told to say), he was just going off of what he heard. Toei remastering the pre-2013 DB movies & the 2 Z TV specials last year combined with those certainly seemed to suggest something bigger was going on. Since everything wouldn't be fully revealed for a while, I'm not surprised ANYONE would think the best was happening. FUNi also already put out their shitty BRs back in 2014 anyways, so there was no reason to actually believe they'd go through the trouble of doing new sets themselves rather than Toei doing them for the anniversary, but that obviously wasn't the case. Geekdom then put out the video with Ajay to correct his earlier videos' mistakes of assumptions.
The flash cartoon comment was in one of his Q&As when someone asked him about the Season BRs specifically.

As for the 30th set, as far as I remember Geekdom said in his video about TOEI's movie remasters one of his sources who is a credible source said they were planning on releasing OG DB through GT on Blu-Ray, but he hadn't been able to double source it.

Maybe TOEI were planning on remastering the series at one point but then they heard companies like Funimation and Selecta Vision were doing remasters and they decided not to put in the effort. Maybe Geekdom's source heard vague things he/she assumed was about TOEI's plans but it was actually about Selecta Vision. We may never know, but Geekdom never outright said the 30th set would be the best.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:03 am

sangofe wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:46 am
Geekdom jumped to conclusions based off the TV specials remasters that were done earlier. That's all there is to this.
I don't think I said he didn't, just that there was more to that. That's really simplifying it & he wasn't the only one thinking it or hoping for it.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:39 am
The flash cartoon comment was in one of his Q&As when someone asked him about the Season BRs specifically.

As for the 30th set, as far as I remember Geekdom said in his video about TOEI's movie remasters one of his sources who is a credible source said they were planning on releasing OG DB through GT on Blu-Ray, but he hadn't been able to double source it.

Maybe TOEI were planning on remastering the series at one point but then they heard companies like Funimation and Selecta Vision were doing remasters and they decided not to put in the effort. Maybe Geekdom's source heard vague things he/she assumed was about TOEI's plans but it was actually about Selecta Vision. We may never know, but Geekdom never outright said the 30th set would be the best.
Exactly. Saying Geekdom was shilling the 30th anniversary sets is disingenuous. He was just going off of what he heard &, unfortunately, didn't add a caveat of his source being wrong. He said himself that he assumed based on several pieces of info he was told by a few or several sources that it was gonna be a certain way. When they were announced, he quickly as he could made a video with Ajay talking about the problems with the release & the discrepancies between what he was told was gonna happen, then what ended up happening. He has never shilled any FUNi release of Z outside of Kai & the Dragon Boxes. Every other release, he has anti-shilled them. He has several videos talking about the releases where he clearly states these opinions. His video with Super Jayain where they talked about the home releases is the one I'm citing here, I believe.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by DHM211 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:15 am

Scsigs wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:03 am
sangofe wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:46 am
Geekdom jumped to conclusions based off the TV specials remasters that were done earlier. That's all there is to this.
I don't think I said he didn't, just that there was more to that. That's really simplifying it & he wasn't the only one thinking it or hoping for it.
Geekdom shouldn't have been calling people idiots (or "clout chasers", like he calls them) for not believing his baseless claims that the whole series was being remastered by Toei.

He had nothing to base his claims on. The 17 pre-BOG movies were clearly remastered to hype up the upcoming 20th movie release(Broly), and to have something presentable to show in theaters for the limited time showings, as was the Bardock TV special.

Geekdom deleted the tweet, but I recall him literally tweeting video footage of a Japanese TV rip of Bardock (that was available on certain torrenting website for anyone to download), and acted like he had some insider sending him "exclusive" footage from the remaster. Furthermore, he stated how "impressed" he was with the "remastered" audio quality, before people pointed out to him that the uploader who posted the TV special online synced it up with broadcast audio :lol:

People on here and twitter kept pointing out how remastering 17 movies is a whole lot easier than 291 episodes, but unlike us, geekdom knew better and made an assumption that because 17 movies were remastered, so would the whole series. Tbh, the only real mystery to me is why Toei decided to remaster the Trunks special. Maybe to one day sell both TV specials together, idk. Different story for a different day.

Like @Robo4900 pointed out, Funimation already had the entire Z series saved in wonderful HD quality, and had to do minuscule work for their """remaster""", unlike Toei, who would literally have to remaster 291 film reels from scratch.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by jjgp1112 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:27 am

He also thought one of the million tweets Toei makes with the cel scans instead of a normal screenshot was a sneak preview of Toei's remaster and patronized the shit out of somebody for pointing out the reality.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:02 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:44 pm
I know I'm a bit late with these, but...
If you have a good point to voice, then it's never too late, I say.
Scsigs wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:44 pm
You're really misrepresenting the situation for Geekdom. I remember most of what was said in the videos & he did NOT shill the season BRs. At all. The most he said that was positive was , "they're cheap & slightly better than the orange bricks," but he wasn't advocating people actually buy them, only that, if you MUST buy Z in those releases, know what you're getting. I distinctly remember one of the things he said about the remaster is that "it looks like a fucking flash cartoon," which is NOT a glowing endorsement if you even remotely know what flash animation is.
That's totally fair, and I accept and admit I went too far. I have some lingering frustrations with the way Geekdom has conducted himself in his videos, but really, his remarks on the Season BDs are pretty fair. The general principle he goes with that people should support the official release, and the Season BDs are probably about the least-awful way to do that... Yeah, it's a fair thing for him to be saying, and I should be kinder about that.
Scsigs wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:44 pm
For the 30th anniversary set, you're also misrepresenting how his side of it went down too (though I'm not gonna say he was a complete saint on Twitter), his videos claiming the set was gonna be great were from BEFORE the thing was shown off & he was going off of things he'd heard himself through people who work for the companies involved. As Ajay said in the video where they discussed the set after those trailers & the shit blogpost, with Geekdom being told certain pieces of info in certain ways (in which case were clearly either lies, or the representatives not knowing much more & only going off of what they heard or were told to say), he was just going off of what he heard. Toei remastering the pre-2013 DB movies & the 2 Z TV specials last year combined with those certainly seemed to suggest something bigger was going on. Since everything wouldn't be fully revealed for a while, I'm not surprised ANYONE would think the best was happening. FUNi also already put out their shitty BRs back in 2014 anyways, so there was no reason to actually believe they'd go through the trouble of doing new sets themselves rather than Toei doing them for the anniversary, but that obviously wasn't the case. Geekdom then put out the video with Ajay to correct his earlier videos' mistakes of assumptions.

I get some people here REALLY hate Geekdom101, which you're free to do, but putting words in his mouth or misrepresenting what actually went on or the views he's actually expressed in his videos is REALLY disingenuous.
I understand all that, and the conclusions he came to were fair on that basis HOWEVER...

Geekdom, whether he's intended it or not, has ended up in the position that he's effectively a Dragon Ball journalist. Problem is, he has none of the accountability of a journalist, and isn't trained as a journalist, and he seems to have a strong basic instict to please people. So, he falls into the trap of passing off vague rumours that should be taken with a grain of salt, as absolute facts to be believed, which he goes as far as aggressively dismissing anyone who doubts his information, while telling his audience on YouTube exactly what they want to hear, based on vague rumours and misinterpretations (see above here Geekdom claimed to have inside knowledge which turned out to have just been a fan torrent of the Bardock special with broadcast audio synced up).
Recall when the 30th sets were announced. Let's see how he approached the situation...

He heard a rumour or two about Toei remastering the show. Unconfirmed, but exciting, sure.
He saw the 2 TV specials remastered. Again, rather exciting, even if it doesn't ultimately guarantee anything (as we've learned since, and as most sensible heads were saying at the time).
And then he hears Funi are doing a "4:3 set" that's "for the hardcore fans" in HD.

And so, he uses his journalistic platform within the community to say "Holy shit guys, it's happening! Look, they're releasing new Toei masters. This will be everything we've wanted for ages." This isn't a real quote, I'm sort of summarising, but there is a real quote that's stuck in my mind from his first video on this: "Y'all should know I'm legit by now", he said while talking about his certainty about Funi using a new Toei remaster of Z.
Thing is, Geekdom didn't have any concrete sources for this. Even if Funi's guys had talked big talk to him, his talk of "It's a Toei remaster" comes from the rumours he's heard (and it's not the first time he's talked shit about something he doesn't understand on his platform; he's often talked about Funi's remastering vs Toei's, and referred to Funi's material as "S-VHSes", referring to the source material behind Funi's Season BDs. Clearly, the man knows nothing about how remastering works). His "Y'all should know I'm legit by now" remark, when put into context, almost sounds like a deliberately ironic remark that perfectly illustrates his aptitude for talking shit, doubling down on it, and putting down anyone who tries to criticise him.

Here's the thing, discussing this stuff on a forum like this is one thing. Voicing your opinion how to interpret available information on a platform where people assume you're a journalist who's done your research is entirely another. (More on this in a moment)

Honestly, I would have forgiven him, but then he went on to say the exact same shit about the Selecta Vision OG DB Blu-ray sets. And once again, he was wrong, he was just telling people what they and he wanted to hear, he was saying his assumptions from unconfirmed rumours... He was being dreadfully irresponsible in general with his conduct, yet again, even after he'd been proved wrong when saying the same things, just a few months earlier. He didn't learn his lesson, he doubled down.
And going back to the 30th sets, even when Funi put out the preview videos, he was saying "This might just be placeholder stuff. I've heard about these Toei masters that are happening" and stuff like that. At no point did he consider his assumptions could have been wrong, he just doubled down harder and harder as things went on.

This, and the fact that he never cites any sources for stuff like his Dragon Ball In Depth videos (which are basically just him collecting information from various Kanzenshuu articles and such, which he consistently fails to cite in any form) has lead me to lose a lot of my respect for him. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but I have big issues with his ethics in his content production. He plays the role of a journalist without any of the restrictions, accountability, or integrity of a journalist, and he has a hard time admitting when he's wrong. And in cases like his Dragon Ball In Depth videos... Well, he's using research others have done, and passing it off as his own, further giving him the image of some super-knowledgeable expert who's done a lot of amazing research. (Hell, watch the beginning of his video on the history and cancellation of GT; he outright says he's done extensive research and unearthed information no one else knows... Even though it's right there in the Kanzenshuu press archive, and in the ratings data on the Kanzenshuu episode guide)

So yes, I take issue with Geekdom's conduct on this, and I stand by that his behaviour in regards to the 30th sets, and Selecta Vision's OG DB Blu-rays was very poor for a person in his position; the casual and semi-hardcore DB fandom look up to and respect him. In this position, he should behave better than he has.

And as noted above by the two prior posters, anyone who voices doubt at him, he mercilessly mocks on Twitter, he throws insults around... Even though he is frequently wrong, and wrong in big ways as I've laid out. I'm sure he's perfectly nice as a person, but his online presence and behaviour is appalling, if you ask me. He doesn't want to ever admit he's wrong, and he wants to constantly promsie people the world and tell them what they want to hear, even if there's no real evidence of it. jjgp1112 particularly notes his utter idiocy in regards to those cel scans that he was adamant were from this mythical Toei master he's been talking about all this time. A bunch of people pointed out his mistake, which he consistently either ignored or mocked.

And yet, despite Geekdom not citing sources on research he's taken from Kanzenshuu, despite him consistently missing the mark on reporting news on Dragon Ball home video of late, despite him being hostile to anyone who pointed out holes in his reporting, he's still considered something of a pillar of the Dragon Ball community. Hell, he moderated tons of panels at Kameha-Con. Including panels with the Vancouver cast, at which he constantly got basic facts about the Vancouver dubbing wrong.
So, I find this whole situation incredibly frustrating. Tons of people here (myself included) would no doubt happily fact check his scripts, help him straighten out misinformation, etc., but all indications point to him not being interested.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:21 pm

The other more disappointing factor is that there are YouTubers like him in other fandoms who are far more respectable. One I follow for the Crash and Spyro fandoms is CanadianGuyEh; he's really clear about when he's shooting off something that's an idea or theory, but furthermore his content is never based on exciting people with his "inside sources" and instead he oftentimes turns out to be right simply because he has a level head for making pretty good guesses. And when he's wrong he has no hesitation in owning up to it.

Geekdom sounds like a guy who's only in it for the attention at the end of the day, which he gets a lot of when people react as they do when he says what we all want to hear. All that's important for him is delivering good news, not factual news.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:52 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:21 pm
The other more disappointing factor is that there are YouTubers like him in other fandoms who are far more respectable. One I follow for the Crash and Spyro fandoms is CanadianGuyEh; he's really clear about when he's shooting off something that's an idea or theory, but furthermore his content is never based on exciting people with his "inside sources" and instead he oftentimes turns out to be right simply because he has a level head for making pretty good guesses. And when he's wrong he has no hesitation in owning up to it.
Exactly!
Another great example is Tyler McVicker of Valve News Network; he's codified his way of reporting on rumours and such; he categorises information into confirmed information, small leaps of speculation based on several reliable sources, information based on a couple of reliable sources, and outright rumours. The last category, he generally skips straight over except in asides in larger videos where he's aggregating all available information on a given subject. He makes the reputability of the information very clear at any given moment, outright says where he's heard any given thing, and most importantly he doesn't force interpretation on you; he makes it clear what's fact, and either doesn't give an interpretation, or very clearly distinguishes the information he's gathered, from what he thinks it might mean.
I don't know if he's ever had journalistic training, but given how professionally he conducts himself, I'd honestly not be surprised at all if he was fully trained.
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:21 pm
Geekdom sounds like a guy who's only in it for the attention at the end of the day, which he gets a lot of when people react as they do when he says what we all want to hear. All that's important for him is delivering good news, not factual news.
Absolutely. He gives the vibe that he's telling you "the real truth", that his "inside sources" are giving you "the hot scoop" or something. He's like those guys who used to spread invented rumours about the Star Wars prequels (and, of course, those guys today like Mike Zeroh who tell people shit about the sequels); those guys who'd tell people exactly what they want to hear, say they have these inside sources... But they were just making shit up.
And just like then, the thing is, people like hearing what they want to hear, whether it's true or not. Certain politicians have been taking advantage of that all throughout history; a convenient lie is far more believable than an inconvenient truth. And it's always nice to feel like you're an "insider"... And when someone's saying they have these "inside sources", and they're sharing their "research" with you, it feels good... Especially if what they're telling you is what you want to hear.

And of course, people watching Geekdom's videos, leaving comments of goodwill, it gives him better stances in The Algorithm, helps his metrics, and gives him a solid income... So he's kind of incentivised by YouTube's shitty systems, and his own precedents, to keep pulling the shit he's been pulling all this time.

So... As I say, it's frustrating. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy, but I abhor the ethics of his content production.
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:21 pm
Also his avatar is an unironic picture of Golden Frieza with a lightsaber, so there's that too. :lol:
It's an awesome avatar tbh.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:23 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:52 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:21 pm
Also his avatar is an unironic picture of Golden Frieza with a lightsaber, so there's that too. :lol:
It's an awesome avatar tbh.
But it's so 2003 it HURTS! I know Golden Frieza didn't exist at the time, but this is the equivalent of SS3 or 4 (or 5) Goku wielding a blue lightsaber, like he'd actually need one...

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Tylerman29 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:40 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:23 pm

But it's so 2003 it HURTS! I know Golden Frieza didn't exist at the time, but this is the equivalent of SS3 or 4 (or 5) Goku wielding a blue lightsaber, like he'd actually need one...
He's just mashing his 2 favorite fandoms together. Nothing wrong with it. I like it as my 2 favorite things are also Star Wars and Dragon Ball.
Anime-only DB fan.
DB, Z, and GT in JP are my "holy trinity".
Wish we had the DB and GT DBoxes in the west.
SSJ4 > Any transformation in Super.

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