Unpopular DB opinions

[MasenkoHA]

[, "why did you watch the Harry Potter movies before reading the books?" It's because the movies are more readily accessible & available than the books for most people.

I...what? How are the Harry Potter movies more readily accessible and available than the books? How does that even make sense? I realize you’re giving an example, but really?

To make another Doctor Who comparison, that's like saying people should go all the way back to 1963's episodes to watch the show from the beginning before watching the most current episodes. For one, that's not the most accessible or affordable way to do so for most. I agree that if people got into DB through Z, they SHOULD go back & watch the original series, but I'm not gonna get mad at them for starting with Z. Z has a bit of a broad strokes approach to it that allows you to go into it with little to no prior knowledge anyways. Plus, there's flashbacks & recaps that fill you in.

This is also a terrible comparison. Dragon Ball Z isn’t succeeding decades worth of a show. Telling people to go back in watch the first Dr.Who episode from the 60s before watching a current incarnation is in no way the same thing as telling people they should watch Dragon Ball before Z.

Yeah, dubbing stuff out of order & going off the original scripts is NEVER a good idea. It's not like they had much of a choice, though, since the original DB didn't catch on when Harmony Gold had

I’m sorry this is a giant load of crap. The Harmony Gold dub was 2 movies and 5 episodes that ran in a few select test markets. Saying Funimation didn’t have much of a chance not to skip Dragon Ball because of this is an intellectually dishonest defense of Funimation’s asinine business decisions.

, since Z was always more successful than DB in a lot of places

Such as? Kanzenshuu has the ratings in Japan and Z hardly did any better then Dragon Ball.

. It made much more sense to do Z, then do OG DB when they had an audience hungry for more & a stable & successful relationship with CN. .

No it really didn’t. The fact that most counties that didn’t have Funimation’s dub had no problems airing Dragon Ball first is enough evidence that Funimation was just clueless

[ABED]

Scigs, no, it was not a damn adaptation. It was footage from the series dubbed (badly) with a bunch of random jokes. There's no emotion, no catharsis, no real story beyond the barest of bones story that they didn't write or adapt. The story came from Toriyama, and they aren't changing it to fit their medium.

And to my knowledge Dr. Who isn't heavily serialized. By its nature, it's meant to be mostly stand alone seasons and not one overarching story for the very reason that it's a show that stretches back to the 60s without easy access to everything.

The film adaptations of Harry Potter are straight up adaptations. It's not the same thing AT ALL.

[MasenkoHA]

Scigs, no, it was not a damn adaptation. It was footage from the series dubbed (badly)

And yet oddly not as bad as the actual English dub of season 3 and 4 and DB movie 2

with a bunch of random jokes.

The lol random jokes (mostly) stopped around episode 7. Most of the humor now comes from the character’s personalities and how they play off each other rather than “this is a thing you heard!”

Now whether they’re actually funny or not well....opinions may vary.

There's no emotion

Again, I cannot stress this enough, whether they were successful or not is a different matter but there clearly is an attempt at emotion like Goku’s goodbye or Dr.Gero’s son’s video diary.

I will say the abridged series does a decent job of giving some sideline canon characters nuance they may have lacked in Z like Chi Chi explaining her tiger mom motivation or even giving Kuririn and 18 a bit more to play off than they were ever given in the actual Android saga. (Even if it’s mostly played for laughs)

I also don’t think a parody requires emotion. I don’t expect my heartstrings to be tugged when I watch Airplane! Or Robin Hood:Men in Tights.

, no real story beyond the barest of bones story that they didn't write or adapt.

The story is the story of the show they’re dubbing over, yes.

[ABED]

Alright, well, I've never seen any of what you're talking about - either emotion, or jokes that come from character

And yet oddly not as bad as the actual English dub of season 3 and 4 and DB movie 2

Hard disagree. That's how little I regard that product.

And this does seem to be an unpopular opinion. I've never understood DBZA's appeal or why it's so widespread.

[Scsigs]

[..."why did you watch the Harry Potter movies before reading the books?" It's because the movies are more readily accessible & available than the books for most people.

I...what? How are the Harry Potter movies more readily accessible and available than the books? How does that even make sense? I realize you’re giving an example, but really?

To make another Doctor Who comparison, that's like saying people should go all the way back to 1963's episodes to watch the show from the beginning before watching the most current episodes. For one, that's not the most accessible or affordable way to do so for most. I agree that if people got into DB through Z, they SHOULD go back & watch the original series, but I'm not gonna get mad at them for starting with Z. Z has a bit of a broad strokes approach to it that allows you to go into it with little to no prior knowledge anyways. Plus, there's flashbacks & recaps that fill you in.

This is also a terrible comparison. Dragon Ball Z isn’t succeeding decades worth of a show. Telling people to go back in watch the first Dr.Who episode from the 60s before watching a current incarnation is in no way the same thing as telling people they should watch Dragon Ball before Z.

Yeah, dubbing stuff out of order & going off the original scripts is NEVER a good idea. It's not like they had much of a choice, though, since the original DB didn't catch on when Harmony Gold had

I’m sorry this is a giant load of crap. The Harmony Gold dub was 2 movies and 5 episodes that ran in a few select test markets. Saying Funimation didn’t have much of a chance not to skip Dragon Ball because of this is an intellectually dishonest defense of Funimation’s asinine business decisions.

, since Z was always more successful than DB in a lot of places

Such as? Kanzenshuu has the ratings in Japan and Z hardly did any better then Dragon Ball.

. It made much more sense to do Z, then do OG DB when they had an audience hungry for more & a stable & successful relationship with CN. .

No it really didn’t. The fact that most counties that didn’t have Funimation’s dub had no problems airing Dragon Ball first is enough evidence that Funimation was just clueless

The Harry Potter films being more accessible claim is that more people are gonna be more comfortable or readily open to watching a 2 hour movie over reading a book & the last 4 books in that series are LONG & paced badly at some points. I'd rather watch something in movie or TV form that visualizes scenes from a book than read a book most of the time, especially depending on how long the book may be.

Well, Dragon Ball as a franchise IS succeeding decades worth of TV. The main difference is that there's a gigantic leap of time where it wasn't on TV or in movie theaters & that there isn't as much to watch. Toei & the BBC also have a history of junking certain material. And, Doctor Who relies on continuity. Maybe not as much, but there are recurring elements, characters, enemies, & other things that come up, particularly during Matt Smith's era as the titular Doctor. It built up so much continuity & mythology over 3 years that it imploded in on itself during a Christmas special that attempted to put to rest all of the plot threads that had built up when Matt Smith decided to leave early.

Possibly. And, I see your point since DBZ wasn't a hit until it ran on Toonami in 1998 & found its audience. Still, they decided Z was more marketable & did DB later after finding the audience.

I meant overseas mostly, Japan's different.

I'm not arguing FUNi's dub made it successful. I'm arguing that the marketing & choosing Z made it successful. I think Z would've been very successful regardless of the company that dubbed it as long as they did the marketing well & they did.

Apologies if these aren't good points of comparison or if I'm not explaining my thinking well enough.

Scsigs, no, it was not a damn adaptation.

It was footage from the series dubbed (badly) with a bunch of random jokes. There's no emotion, no catharsis, no real story beyond the barest of bones story that they didn't write or adapt.

The story came from Toriyama, and they aren't changing it to fit their medium.

It kinda is. The use of the footage edited to fit their new scripts is literally adapting it.

In season 1, it was dubbed badly when their standards weren't as good & the editing was shit (a thing TFS will readily agree with). The jokes in DBZA revolve around: situational humor, references to the dubs, references to pop culture, & flanderizing the characters by exaggeration. It's exactly what a parody usually is. You need to actually pay attention if you think the jokes are "random." Maybe a joke here or there is random, but the majority of it isn't.
As for no emotion, watch their version of History of Trunks, or season 2 onwards. There are moments of true emotion thrown in when they let it get serious.

Yes, the story came from Toriyama. Most parodies still follow the storylines of thee original. Given they use footage from the series, they can't really change too much. I don't see how that's a point against them.

Alright, well, I've never seen any of what you're talking about - either emotion, or jokes that come from character.

And yet oddly not as bad as the actual English dub of season 3 and 4 and DB movie 2

Hard disagree. That's how little I regard that product.

And this does seem to be an unpopular opinion. I've never understood DBZA's appeal or why it's so widespread.

Again, Trunks. End of History of Trunks.

Only season 1 had bad dubbing & editing. Season 2 on has more good & consistent editing around their voice recordings.

DBZA has appeal because the people behind it are MAJOR fans of DB. A lot of people like it for the constantly evolving humor, canon welding, voice acting, editing, writing, & other things that they throw in. The main point that it's a loving parody also helps. It can be watched as a sort of fanfiction as a humorous take on the original material & entirely disregarded in regards to the source material. And there are the people who hate it, who can & do ignore it because they don't like it. Like basically everything else in existence.

[MasenkoHA]

Alright, well, I've never seen any of what you're talking about - either emotion, or jokes that come from character

And yet oddly not as bad as the actual English dub of season 3 and 4 and DB movie 2

Hard disagree. That's how little I regard that product.

And this does seem to be an unpopular opinion. I've never understood DBZA's appeal or why it's so widespread.

Just out of curiosity how many/what episodes have you watched?

I’m not trying to convince you to watch more, I’m a guy who gives a show at best 3 episodes to impress me, including internet videos I can’t blame you for being putt off my by the early episodes. I’ve definitely watched shows where no matter how many times I was told “it gets better” my rebuttal was “Yeah but the first 3 episodes were garbage and I’m not going to watch 20 episodes of crap to get to the alleged good stuff”

[WittyUsername]

On the subject of TFS, I’ve said this before, but their version of the Cell arc was played a bit too straight for its own good. It came across less like a parody of the series and more like a tongue in cheek adaptation that made the odd decision of trying to add some depth to the story where there originally was none.

[Scsigs]

They said season 3 was their love letter to the show, so I understand that criticism.

[ABED]

Alright, well, I've never seen any of what you're talking about - either emotion, or jokes that come from character

And yet oddly not as bad as the actual English dub of season 3 and 4 and DB movie 2

Hard disagree. That's how little I regard that product.

And this does seem to be an unpopular opinion. I've never understood DBZA's appeal or why it's so widespread.

Just out of curiosity how many/what episodes have you watched?

I’m not trying to convince you to watch more, I’m a guy who gives a show at best 3 episodes to impress me, including internet videos I can’t blame you for being putt off my by the early episodes. I’ve definitely watched shows where no matter how many times I was told “it gets better” my rebuttal was “Yeah but the first 3 episodes were garbage and I’m not going to watch 20 episodes of crap to get to the alleged good stuff”

It's hard to say, but I'd say about 6 full episodes and maybe 4 more worth of clips. I've talked about my dislike a lot over the years, and every time people kept telling me how it was different from the beginning, so I tried different episodes at various points in the series, and all I saw was the same stuff. And after the few times anyone did point me to a specific clip to supposedly prove how TFA were actors were good, I tried those out and still came away thinking, "Am I missing something? What am I not getting about this that somehow so many just adore?"

It's because of examples such as this that I'm not willing to give series more than a handful of episodes to get good. For example, I've tried my hardest with Fleabag, but after 3 episodes I still don't understand its appeal or why people think it's so funny, so I'm moving on.

Again, Trunks. End of History of Trunks.

Again, no, no it isn't. I've given the "show" more than a fair shake and it's just joke, joke, joke. Trunks being the straight man doesn't mean they are playing it straight.

[MasenkoHA]

The Harry Potter films being more accessible claim is that more people are gonna be more comfortable or readily open to watching a 2 hour movie over reading a book & the last 4 books in that series are LONG & paced badly at some points. I'd rather watch something in movie or TV form that visualizes scenes from a book than read a book most of the time, especially depending on how long the book may be.

Agree to disagree. With a book you can read at your own pace. A movie is typically consumed in one sitting. I found it much easier reading the books at my own leisure than watching a 2 hour film.

I’m not a “the book is always better than the film” person either (Brian De Palma’s Carrie and Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining are my go to examples of the film adaptation absolutely trouncing the novel) but the Harry Potter films are damn near incoherent at times with changes that end up making no sense when they follow the book later on and I’m lost on they can be more accessible.

Well, Dragon Ball as a franchise IS succeeding decades worth of TV. The main difference is that there's a gigantic leap of time where it wasn't on TV or in movie theaters & that there isn't as much to watch.

The discussion at hand is the problem with Funimation skipping 140 episodes worth of content (and really ignoring the first 13)

Possibly. And, I see your point since DBZ wasn't a hit until it ran on Toonami in 1998 & found its audience. Still, they decided Z was more marketable & did DB later after finding the audience.

Again this isn’t true. Dragon Ball Z did do well enough in syndication enough to get increased time slots in its second year and at least at one point was the number one syndicated show in its demo. It may have done much better on Toonami but it was successful by the metrics of syndication.

The problem is Funimation dubbed 13 episodes of Dragon Ball with much worse time slots and then skipped ahead to Z because Power Rangers was a hit and kids liked punching and kicking and Funimation couldn’t be assed to bother to see Dragon Ball would get more action oriented.

And even ignoring that none of this excuses Funimation making shit up in Z instead of just sticking to the script.

I meant overseas mostly, Japan's different.

Again any country that got Dragon Ball first it did fine. Not just Japan.

In season 1, it was dubbed badly when their standards weren't as good & the editing was shit (a thing TFS will readily agree with). The jokes in DBZA revolve around: situational humor, references to the dubs, references to pop culture, & flanderizing the characters by exaggeration. It's exactly what a parody usually is. You need to actually pay attention if you think the jokes are "random." Maybe a joke here or there is random, but the majority of it isn't.

I agree the writing, voice acting, and sound mixing got much better in season 2 to the point I tell people to start around episode 7.

But if someone watched a season 2 or 3 episode they’re just not going to like it.

[Scsigs]

Again, Trunks. End of History of Trunks.

Again, no, no it isn't. I've given the "show" more than a fair shake and it's just joke, joke, joke. Trunks being the straight man doesn't mean they are playing it straight.

I'm not talking about Trunks being the straight man. I'm talking about the scene where he finds Gohan's dead body & cries about it, which they DID play straight.

Another example is Goku teleporting Cell away at the tail end of season 3, Cell's resurrection, & Gohan's beam struggle against Cell. I would also say most of the epilogue to episode 60. While there are jokes in these episodes, they're more spread out. The more serious moments ARE played straight. If the jokes that are there blind you from seeing this, whatever, man.

By the way, not including my username when you stopped quoting the other guy could probably lead to confusion, as well as it didn't alert me that you DID quote me. I had to see that for myself.

[ABED]

The one time they play it straight sandwiched between a bunch of jokes is somehow proof of what?

And no whatever man, you guys give way too much credibility to that damn show.

Another example is Goku teleporting Cell away at the tail end of season 3, Cell's resurrection, & Gohan's beam struggle against Cell. I would also say most of the epilogue to episode 60. While there are jokes in these episodes, they're more spread out. The more serious moments ARE played straight. If the jokes that are there blind you from seeing this, whatever, man.

For the love of god, no they aren't. It's plain as day that the show is damn near always going for the laugh. You are either missing the obvious or are lying. What is it about this god damn show?! Even the intro admits it's a parody.

I've watched yet another episode and yet I'm baffled how anyone can honestly claim that they play it straight.

[WittyUsername]

TeamFourStar’s series is obviously never played 100% straight. It wouldn’t be a parody if that were the case. However, by “season 3”, they became more ambitious with how they adapted the series, not just in terms of edits, but also in terms of the story and characters, which was kind of weird. They seemed really eager to try and expand and “improve” on the lore on the series by doing things such as giving Dr. Gero a sympathetic reason to hate Goku, which I wasn’t a fan of.

[MasenkoHA]

There’s definitely moments played with sincerity in DBZA but it is still a parody. Even stuff like Goku’s goodbye had jokes with him messing his words up and the “bye sons”

Not that it matters. It’s a comedy you either like the humor or you don’t. Abed doesn’t, which is fine. 14 million people apparently think Big Bang Theory is hilarious and I’ve found water boarding to be more enjoyable. Different strokes for different folks.

[Scsigs]

Spoiler:

The one time they play it straight sandwiched between a bunch of jokes is somehow proof of what?

And no whatever man, you guys give way too much credibility to that damn show.

Another example is Goku teleporting Cell away at the tail end of season 3, Cell's resurrection, & Gohan's beam struggle against Cell. I would also say most of the epilogue to episode 60. While there are jokes in these episodes, they're more spread out. The more serious moments ARE played straight. If the jokes that are there blind you from seeing this, whatever, man.

For the love of god, no they aren't. It's plain as day that the show is damn near always going for the laugh. You are either missing the obvious or are lying. What is it about this god damn show?! Even the intro admits it's a parody.

I've watched yet another episode and yet I'm baffled how anyone can honestly claim that they play it straight.

Dude, one of the constant complaint against season 3 by fans of the first 2 seasons is that it got "too serious" for a parody & some people complained, for some reason, that they kept the scene where Trunks finds Gohan's dead body in History of Trunks serious. They tended to have more serious moments in season 3, so I understand WHY they complain even if I don't agree that the complaints are valid.

Also, Goku's sacrifice to Cell is played straight. Not entirely, since he asks King Kai what he should do with Cell really quick, but it's a moment that's mostly played straight. If you wanna argue that the slight comedic lines in more serious moments ruin moments, there's an argument to be made there, but saying they never play anything straight is just a straight-up lie, sorry.

TeamFourStar’s series is obviously never played 100% straight. It wouldn’t be a parody if that were the case. However, by “season 3”, they became more ambitious with how they adapted the series, not just in terms of edits, but also in terms of the story and characters, which was kind of weird. They seemed really eager to try and expand and “improve” on the lore on the series by doing things such as giving Dr. Gero a sympathetic reason to hate Goku, which I wasn’t a fan of.

Considering Toriyama revealed that 16 was modeled after Gero's dead son, they just took that & ran with it. It also tips the fair use scales more in their favor if they do stuff like that, so...

There’s definitely moments played with sincerity in DBZA but it is still a parody. Even stuff like Goku’s goodbye had jokes with him messing his words up and the “bye sons”

Not that it matters. It’s a comedy you either like the humor or you don’t. Abed doesn’t, which is fine. 14 million people apparently think Big Bang Theory is hilarious and I’ve found water boarding to be more enjoyable. Different strokes for different folks.

Oh, I fucking HATE that show. The humor is of a lower quality than DBZA.


Let me just say this, though, I HATE when TFS try to force a message into the show that doesn't hold up AT ALL. I'm rewatching episode 60 parts 1-3 & the thing about Gohan being a pacifist has never sat right with me AT ALL, particularly with how they've developed him. In fact, how they've treated Gohan never made any sense. First he has father issues he never had in the original series (because it makes no sense for him to resent Goku for liking to fight or being dead or elsewhere at some points that weren't his fault or were him sacrificing himself) leading to him appearing to be an inconsiderate douchebag. Then, there's him using his fighting as catharsis for dealing with his anger issues aimed at his father.
Then, there's the whole pacifist bullshit & their angle of, "don't just stand by & let people do bad things." Decent message in theory, but it falls completely apart under any sort of scrutiny. It comes off as oddly political too, given the current climate in America, which Kaiser even addressed on Twitter after that episode came out that it wasn't intended. Gohan's story has always been one of balance between being his parents' son. He's capable of fighting & great power like Goku, but he'd prefer living a normal life like Chichi wants him to. Gohan's not a pacifist. He's a person who just doesn't have a driving urge to fight like his father or Vegeta. All of the Saiyan half-breeds are like that. But he does what he needs to in the end because he's a good person with the means to do so. Which, I think, is the problem people have with how he's been handled since Buu. He just hasn't had a chance to shine since Cell, even though he's capable of a balanced greatness. But, yeah, how they've handled Gohan has been really bad. I hope they take this character development to its logical conclusion & have Gohan finally realize he's misplaced his anger in Buu, otherwise this was for absolutely nothing.
I mean, in real life, their version of Gohan would probably be something like Onision, who has such anger for his dad (who was ACTUALLY abusive from what I've heard) that he's misplaced his anger towards hating things his father likes just because HE likes them & I think we can all agree Onision's a psychopath & close to being a serial killer or something because of how deranged he is.

[ABED]

A handful of moments that are played straight, which I've acknowledged and even then that's generous, sandwiched in between a ton of parody and bathos doesn't constitute playing it straight.

Oh, I fucking HATE that show. The humor is of a lower quality than DBZA.

First, don't hate a movie or a show. It's useless and you learn nothing; second, this line of yours implies DBZA's humor is low quality.

[Scsigs]

Oh, I fucking HATE that show. The humor is of a lower quality than DBZA.

First, don't hate a movie or a show. It's useless and you learn nothing; second, this line of yours implies DBZA's humor is low quality.

I mean, not really. Hating something can help us realize what we don't like about it & show where we stand with the thing.
Also, not really. The statement was that the humor is lower in quality than DBZA's. If I felt that DBZA's humor's quality was low, I would say so.

[MasenkoHA]

Also, not really. The statement was that the humor is lower in quality than DBZA's. If I felt that DBZA's humor's quality was low, I would say so.

Yeah but saying you hate it and then saying its humor is
lower in quality than DBZA would insinuate that you feel the quality of humor in DBZA is pretty low. “This is even worse than this”

[ABED]

Oh, I fucking HATE that show. The humor is of a lower quality than DBZA.

First, don't hate a movie or a show. It's useless and you learn nothing; second, this line of yours implies DBZA's humor is low quality.

I mean, not really. Hating something can help us realize what we don't like about it & show where we stand with the thing.
Also, not really. The statement was that the humor is lower in quality than DBZA's. If I felt that DBZA's humor's quality was low, I would say so.

See MasenkoHA's reply regarding the humor comment.

And I disagree about hate being constructive. It's not between love and hate. Hate isn't all that constructive. Dislike is not the same as hate. I dislike 2001, but I don't hate it no matter how bored I am by that film. Hate doesn't help us realize what we don't like. Analysis helps us, not strong emotion. Strong emotions can blind us to something's faults and its virtues.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Don't hate on anything. It's fine if it's not to your liking but there's no reason to hate a movie or a TV show.

I dunno, I think there are things out there that are genuinely hate worthy. Slenderman movie comes to mind. That movie was unbearable.

I will say though, that I do think people tend to hate on things too easily. Like for me, it really takes a lot for me to actually hate a movie or show, as opposed to just disliking it.