Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

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Hulk10
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:11 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:46 pm
QuakingStar wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:34 pm
You mean it works as a second base form too?? I don't know about that because when Goku and Vegeta lose enough energy or get hurt bad enough they revert to their actual base form.
I see it more as a built-in Ultimate for Saiyans
Me too. Perhaps I worded it too confusingly. Its a Chimera form. Composed of multiple parts.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:32 pm

Well yes it is pretty much an Ultimate form for the Saiyans, it is a culmination of everything they possess. It not only has an astronomical multiplier but for the duration of the form it unleashes the users potential on top of that

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:58 pm

QuakingStar wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:32 pm
Well yes it is pretty much an Ultimate form for the Saiyans, it is a culmination of everything they possess. It not only has an astronomical multiplier but for the duration of the form it unleashes the users potential on top of that
Indeed. It really is awesomely powerful.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:23 pm

Super Saiyan 4 is best for characters like Gohan and Broly too, since the form uses the users current full hidden potential.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:17 pm

QuakingStar wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:23 pm
Super Saiyan 4 is best for characters like Gohan and Broly too, since the form uses the users current full hidden potential.
I concur. I doubt though that it will appear in the official 'canon'.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:24 am

Honestly I feel cheated that Xeno Trunks did not get Super Saiyan 4, its one of the things the fandom has dreampt up since forever, and since half-Saiyans inherently have more potential than full-blood saiyans his SS4 form should be more powerful than Goku and Vegeta's too.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:48 am

QuakingStar wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:24 am
Honestly I feel cheated that Xeno Trunks did not get Super Saiyan 4, its one of the things the fandom has dreampt up since forever, and since half-Saiyans inherently have more potential than full-blood saiyans his SS4 form should be more powerful than Goku and Vegeta's too.
Half blood Saiyans don't have as much potential as Legendary ones do.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:11 pm

So, if SS4 Goku is compared to a hypothetical Super Vegito (from GT, of course), would it be fair to say the same for their Z counterparts?

Z SS4 = Z Super Vegito?

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:15 pm

The power difference between the full power of SS Vegito and base form goku or base form Vegeta is being compared to the power difference that SS4 gives the user with a question mark meaning they aren't so sure that even that is as strong as Super Saiyan 4. So really its one of those "it could be possible but we aren't so sure" scenarios.. I think it would be safer to assume Super Saiyan 4 is still stronger going by that. So SS4 Z Goku would likely be still stronger than Z SS Vegito

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:54 pm

VegettoEX does a good job of explaining things in his posts about the Vegetto comparison. viewtopic.php?t=40897

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:47 pm

QuakingStar wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:54 pm
VegettoEX does a good job of explaining things in his posts about the Vegetto comparison. viewtopic.php?t=40897
So, if we were to take that comparison seriously, it would mean that SS4 and a contemporary SS fusion have a similar multiplier, right?
Then if Goku fused with Vegeta to fight Baby(I know, there is just one Vegeta and Baby already had him), his SS form would be pretty much in the same ballpark as SS4 and Ohzaru VB.

Also, SS Gogeta wouldn't have been enough for Omega Shenron, and maybe SS2 Gogeta could've been even with him (maybe stronger, Omega claimed to be 10x stronger than before or more), making SS4 Gogeta the best bet. Aside of the fact that Goku was a kid and couldn't fuse in another form.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:24 pm

Well, there is a question mark there meaning they aren't so sure fusions(which they consider a form) like Vegito with SS is as strong as the SS4 form anyway. So it would be safer to say SS4 > a SS Fusion in power.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Rakurai » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:54 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:47 pm
QuakingStar wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:54 pm
VegettoEX does a good job of explaining things in his posts about the Vegetto comparison. viewtopic.php?t=40897
So, if we were to take that comparison seriously, it would mean that SS4 and a contemporary SS fusion have a similar multiplier, right?
Then if Goku fused with Vegeta to fight Baby(I know, there is just one Vegeta and Baby already had him), his SS form would be pretty much in the same ballpark as SS4 and Ohzaru VB.

Also, SS Gogeta wouldn't have been enough for Omega Shenron, and maybe SS2 Gogeta could've been even with him (maybe stronger, Omega claimed to be 10x stronger than before or more), making SS4 Gogeta the best bet. Aside of the fact that Goku was a kid and couldn't fuse in another form.
I believe this is what the anime comics is implying. That a hypothetical SS Vegetto born from GT Goku & Vegeta would be in the same ballpark if not stronger than SS4 GT Goku.

We know SS4 Gogeta was overkill for Super XY Long. It's unclear, however, whether SS3 Gogeta would've sufficed or not, but I would say probably so given how big the gap was played out to be (not going to use multipliers since they lead to fallacies here and there).
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:25 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:54 am
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:47 pm
QuakingStar wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:54 pm
VegettoEX does a good job of explaining things in his posts about the Vegetto comparison. viewtopic.php?t=40897
So, if we were to take that comparison seriously, it would mean that SS4 and a contemporary SS fusion have a similar multiplier, right?
Then if Goku fused with Vegeta to fight Baby(I know, there is just one Vegeta and Baby already had him), his SS form would be pretty much in the same ballpark as SS4 and Ohzaru VB.

Also, SS Gogeta wouldn't have been enough for Omega Shenron, and maybe SS2 Gogeta could've been even with him (maybe stronger, Omega claimed to be 10x stronger than before or more), making SS4 Gogeta the best bet. Aside of the fact that Goku was a kid and couldn't fuse in another form.
I believe this is what the anime comics is implying. That a hypothetical SS Vegetto born from GT Goku & Vegeta would be in the same ballpark if not stronger than SS4 GT Goku.

We know SS4 Gogeta was overkill for Super XY Long. It's unclear, however, whether SS3 Gogeta would've sufficed or not, but I would say probably so given how big the gap was played out to be (not going to use multipliers since they lead to fallacies here and there).
We don't really know exactly how powerful SSJ4 is. Thats true.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:26 am

Of course we don't know exactly how powerful since we are never given a literal number, but at least we know ther power a SS Fusion brings is comparable to it and considering that it is talking about the SS4 form itself and not on a per user basis that means it isn't even including each users Potential. So Gohan or Broly using SS4 would be easily stronger than the power a SS Fusion would bring.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:12 pm

QuakingStar wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:26 am
Of course we don't know exactly how powerful since we are never given a literal number, but at least we know ther power a SS Fusion brings is comparable to it and considering that it is talking about the SS4 form itself and not on a per user basis that means it isn't even including each users Potential. So Gohan or Broly using SS4 would be easily stronger than the power a SS Fusion would bring.
Indeed. Good points.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:53 pm

Check out my thoughts on ssj4 viewtopic.php?f=8&t=44496

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:55 pm

Personally I wouldn't put a hypothetical SSj4 Goku on the same terms as SSj Vegito. I think SSj4 should be more equal to hypothetical SSj Gogeta. Judging this on the fact that originally base Vegito>=SSj Gogeta

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:01 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:55 pm
Judging this on the fact that originally base Vegito>=SSj Gogeta
first time I hear this. Source, please?

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:11 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:01 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:55 pm
Judging this on the fact that originally base Vegito>=SSj Gogeta
first time I hear this. Source, please?
In dbz, by scaling base vegeth>ssj gogeta because of the multipliers difference.
The "fusions are equals" thing Is valid only from when It was said on, It doesnt overwrite the past in any way
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
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Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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