Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:12 pm

I realize that since Broly didn't transform into a Super Saiyan when he went berserk it seems that his Super Saiyan form is unlikely to be unlocked by anger. Though its possible.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

User avatar
nato25
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1325
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by nato25 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:57 pm

Didn't his anger toward Paragus being killed lead to him turning into SSJ1?

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:18 am

I don't think his so-called Ikari form is fueled by anger, he is a great ape in the body of a human. How does he turn Ikari, like where does he tap into for that power isn't really clear but I don't think it has to do with being angry

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:20 am

nato25 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:57 pm
Didn't his anger toward Paragus being killed lead to him turning into SSJ1?
The creators claimed Broly's form was accessed by intense sorrow. So there must have been a lot of sorrow but I do also think anger played a big role.
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:18 am
I don't think his so-called Ikari form is fueled by anger, he is a great ape in the body of a human. How does he turn Ikari, like where does he tap into for that power isn't really clear but I don't think it has to do with being angry
I would love to know how he transforms too. But maybe anger has a role in it.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 3428
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:47 am

Broli has an abnormal level of anger. You can’t really compare him with the other Saiyans. The grief he felt when his father was killed probably affected even more his already twisted mind, which from his perspective is the breakpoint to become a Super Saiyan.

User avatar
Thani
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Thani » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:11 am

Yeah, I think Hugo is pretty much on point. All moments of Super Saiyan being unlocked also involved a lot of sorrow. Goku seeing Krillin die, Trunks finding Gohan's corpse, Vegeta believing he would never be a Super Saiyan. Hell, even Kale, believing she lost Caulifla's affection and that she would be forever a useless nobody, was in a lot of sorrow.

So I guess it has to be a cruel shock to the saiyan's emotions, after passing a certain threshold of power, that ignites the anger in them. A pracrical of this happening is using tragedy and sorrow to stimulate it.

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:22 am

Thani wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:11 am
Yeah, I think Hugo is pretty much on point. All moments of Super Saiyan being unlocked also involved a lot of sorrow. Goku seeing Krillin die, Trunks finding Gohan's corpse, Vegeta believing he would never be a Super Saiyan. Hell, even Kale, believing she lost Caulifla's affection and that she would be forever a useless nobody, was in a lot of sorrow.

So I guess it has to be a cruel shock to the saiyan's emotions, after passing a certain threshold of power, that ignites the anger in them. A pracrical of this happening is using tragedy and sorrow to stimulate it.
Yeah. I'm not entirely convinced that Broly has an abnormal level of anger. But he is unique, like Kale and all moments of Super Saiyan ascession with the exception of Caulifla have involved a mix of anger and sorrow.

But Hugo is on point with the grief Broly felt. But I don't think Broly's mind is twisted. But the grief he felt at his father's death definately did bring it out as Toriyama or Toyataro said that Broly's Super Saiyan form is unlocked by intense sorrow.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 3428
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:44 pm

Broli is not what you would consider a mental-healthy character. He has good moments in his current version, but still he doesn’t act in a reasonable way when he fights. If his mind were sane, we wouldn’t see that dramatically altering his appearance.

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm

Old Broly was insane. DBS Broly isn't insane.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Miracles » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:09 pm

nato25 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:57 pm
Didn't his anger toward Paragus being killed lead to him turning into SSJ1?
Yes. That's why Freeza remembered how Goku became SSJ, after killing Krillin. He replicated the same scenario with Paragus and Broly.

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1567
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by theherodjl » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:59 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Old Broly was insane. DBS Broly isn't insane.
He's still insane, its just that he's not naturally homicidal or omnicidal like his classic counterpart was. Modern Broly has all the issues of growing up isolated without knowing how to properly form relationships with others, having to do what his dad said or else suffer physical/mental abuse, and living in feral squalor without even knowing what clean, purified water looks like. Broly was raised like an animal/pet by his lone companion of a father who was not all right in the head himself, its no wonder he'd still be a total basket case.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:45 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:59 pm
Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Old Broly was insane. DBS Broly isn't insane.
He's still insane, its just that he's not naturally homicidal or omnicidal like his classic counterpart was. Modern Broly has all the issues of growing up isolated without knowing how to properly form relationships with others, having to do what his dad said or else suffer physical/mental abuse, and living in feral squalor without even knowing what clean, purified water looks like. Broly was raised like an animal/pet by his lone companion of a father who was not all right in the head himself, its no wonder he'd still be a total basket case.
He may have those issues but he is not completely insane. He has a good grip on reality. Truly insane individuals do not.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

ankokudaishogun
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 754
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:24 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Old Broly was insane.
Only starting from movie-10, and even then I would doubt it.

Movie-8 Broly was perfectly sane, just a gigantic bastard.

Movie-10 Broly was visibly working with reduced mental faculties.
But I'm unconvinced he was properly "insane", just brain-damaged.
His successive cameos in games kept him in this state, up to his latest appearance in DBHeroes were he's just a mindless berserker.


Broly:BR is perfectly sane as well. He doesn't show cognitive issues, at worst he only suffers of poor rage management which is likely mostly caused by nurture than nature.

That said, just being angry isn't enough to trigger Super Saiyan, one must be REALLY pissed off.
And Broly:BR's Wrath Form is less actual rage and more unleashing aggressiveness. Channelling his inner giant ape.

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:40 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:24 pm
Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Old Broly was insane.
Only starting from movie-10, and even then I would doubt it.

Movie-8 Broly was perfectly sane, just a gigantic bastard.

Movie-10 Broly was visibly working with reduced mental faculties.
But I'm unconvinced he was properly "insane", just brain-damaged.
His successive cameos in games kept him in this state, up to his latest appearance in DBHeroes were he's just a mindless berserker.


Broly:BR is perfectly sane as well. He doesn't show cognitive issues, at worst he only suffers of poor rage management which is likely mostly caused by nurture than nature.

That said, just being angry isn't enough to trigger Super Saiyan, one must be REALLY pissed off.
And Broly:BR's Wrath Form is less actual rage and more unleashing aggressiveness. Channelling his inner giant ape.
I agree with you there but theherodjl doesn't.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

Mad Swami
Regular
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:01 am

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:10 pm

Slightly off topic but what is the power difference between ssj1 and full power super saiyan. Assuming Gogeta as an ssj1 was equal to ssj1 Broly, that means the full power form is relative to ssj blue. Obviously Gogeta as an ssj blue was his superior but still the fact he needed blue confuses me

ankokudaishogun
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 754
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by ankokudaishogun » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:09 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:10 pm
Slightly off topic but what is the power difference between ssj1 and full power super saiyan. Assuming Gogeta as an ssj1 was equal to ssj1 Broly, that means the full power form is relative to ssj blue. Obviously Gogeta as an ssj blue was his superior but still the fact he needed blue confuses me
Most likely Gogeta, too, doesn't bother with SS2-God if the opponent is stronger than SS1 and they aren't showing off.

Blue gives the user the perfect ki control to Hold Back™ as much as they want, while also giving them the option to power-up instantly all in a single transformation.

Full Power, i'd say, is probably "just" Grade-3

Mad Swami
Regular
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:01 am

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Mad Swami » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:09 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:09 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:10 pm
Slightly off topic but what is the power difference between ssj1 and full power super saiyan. Assuming Gogeta as an ssj1 was equal to ssj1 Broly, that means the full power form is relative to ssj blue. Obviously Gogeta as an ssj blue was his superior but still the fact he needed blue confuses me
Most likely Gogeta, too, doesn't bother with SS2-God if the opponent is stronger than SS1 and they aren't showing off.

Blue gives the user the perfect ki control to Hold Back™ as much as they want, while also giving them the option to power-up instantly all in a single transformation.

Full Power, i'd say, is probably "just" Grade-3
Hmm that's a good point but apart of me thinks any other form except maybe ssj god wouldn't have done the trick due to how much Broly actually tanks ssj blue Gogeta's attacks. However that is a good point

User avatar
Surai
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:04 pm

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Surai » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:19 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Old Broly was insane. DBS Broly isn't insane.
Both are insane since they have anger issues and get easily overwhelmed by them.
But DBS Broly is just a tortured soul with a pure heart, the 1993 one is a straight up psychopath.

ankokudaishogun
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 754
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:18 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:09 pm
Hmm that's a good point but apart of me thinks any other form except maybe ssj god wouldn't have done the trick due to how much Broly actually tanks ssj blue Gogeta's attacks. However that is a good point
we don't know how good is SSGod at Holding Back™ compared to Blue, nor how much power Gogeta Blue was using.

Using Blue isn't that much energy intensive than God(in the anime, it never was, in the manga the issue was resolved with Complete Blue), so there is really no reason to use anything beside SS and Blue unless they are showing off.

And given they did see how fast Broly was growing while they showed off earlier, using Blue directly to stay on the safe side was the smart move.

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:12 am

Surai wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:19 pm
Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Old Broly was insane. DBS Broly isn't insane.
Both are insane since they have anger issues and get easily overwhelmed by them.
But DBS Broly is just a tortured soul with a pure heart, the 1993 one is a straight up psychopath.
Having anger issues doesn't necessarily make you insane but popular view is that both Brolys are insane.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

Post Reply