"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Gt91]

Yeah those short episodes are just made for upcoming movie where everyone is adult while this new series is going to take place somewhere after original series where they were still a kids.

Oh so its a new series? I thought it was a remake. Thats even better!

I read about a reboot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5YHoVa ... 7QEKfrJbHk

we have kairi from the beginning.

[sunsetshimmer]

Yeah those short episodes are just made for upcoming movie where everyone is adult while this new series is going to take place somewhere after original series where they were still a kids.

Oh so its a new series? I thought it was a remake. Thats even better!

Actually you're right. It turns out to be a reboot. The same characters, the same age, but taking place in 2020 with new plot.
I'd honestly prefer it to be a sequel but well...we'll see. Still hyped a lot. Adventure Tri was fine to me and i enjoyed it more than Adventure 02, but nothing beats original series.

[emperior]

If they will really be adapting the manga, then in the meanwhile I would have liked it if they started adapting it from the beginning, adding some stuff from the anime where possible and finally giving us a high quality Dragon Ball Super TV show.

But I bet they want to avoid confusing fans so much.

Heck, even a deeper 24 minutes episodes weekly Heroes show would have been better than nothing.

[Noah]

But the Super manga still ongoing, I have enough to satisfy my appetite for good Dragon Ball material.

"Good"

But on seriously though, there is no chance of having another animated DB series this year, right?

I feel like Toriyama lost trust in Toei after the disaster Super was, and has thus decided that in the future they will have to go back to adapting the manga as they did back in the 80s.

Don't speak things you have no clue. As much I think Super is not good as it could be, it's far from being a disaster... And I'm pretty sure Toriyama filled all of his pockets with money during the series going on. So yeah pretty sure he's not slighted disappointed with how the things are going on.

Digimon was always a great series, but Digimon Adventure was a masterpiece.

Have you watched all of them?

[emperior]

[

I feel like Toriyama lost trust in Toei after the disaster Super was, and has thus decided that in the future they will have to go back to adapting the manga as they did back in the 80s.

Don't speak things you have no clue. As much I think Super is not good as it could be, it's far from being a disaster... And I'm pretty sure Toriyama filled all of his pockets with money during the series going on. So yeah pretty sure he's not slighted disappointed with how the things are going on.

You really think so? We have no idea if Toriyama was happy or not with Super’s anime. Fact is, he always talked well about the manga meanwhile he publicly criticized the anime. And guess what, currently Super is only alive in manga form, with Toriyama still helping with it.

I doubt he cares much about money nowadays. But if that’s all he cares about, it’s more of a reason to just have movies as it’s less work, probably more cash and higher quality.

By the way, none of us here have any clue.

[Mister_Popo]

[

I feel like Toriyama lost trust in Toei after the disaster Super was, and has thus decided that in the future they will have to go back to adapting the manga as they did back in the 80s.

Don't speak things you have no clue. As much I think Super is not good as it could be, it's far from being a disaster... And I'm pretty sure Toriyama filled all of his pockets with money during the series going on. So yeah pretty sure he's not slighted disappointed with how the things are going on.

You really think so? We have no idea if Toriyama was happy or not with Super’s anime. Fact is, he always talked well about the manga meanwhile he publicly criticized the anime. And guess what, currently Super is only alive in manga form, with Toriyama still helping with it.

I doubt he cares much about money nowadays. But if that’s all he cares about, it’s more of a reason to just have movies as it’s less work, probably more cash and higher quality.

By the way, none of us here have any clue.

Absolutely correct we don't have an exact clue.

But, with all the respect for Toriyama and what he has accomplished ...
Not he himself but his employer Shueisha has the intellectual rights for DB.
Toriyama does not own anything.
There is so much money to be made for the franchise.
How can they let a 64-year-old man, who even does not hold the intellectual rights, let decide over the multimillion money-making future of the franchise, even if he's burned out and doesn't want anymore? If he dies tomorrow, they can still earn a massive amount of money with DB.

[JulieYBM]

[


Don't speak things you have no clue. As much I think Super is not good as it could be, it's far from being a disaster... And I'm pretty sure Toriyama filled all of his pockets with money during the series going on. So yeah pretty sure he's not slighted disappointed with how the things are going on.

You really think so? We have no idea if Toriyama was happy or not with Super’s anime. Fact is, he always talked well about the manga meanwhile he publicly criticized the anime. And guess what, currently Super is only alive in manga form, with Toriyama still helping with it.

I doubt he cares much about money nowadays. But if that’s all he cares about, it’s more of a reason to just have movies as it’s less work, probably more cash and higher quality.

By the way, none of us here have any clue.

Absolutely correct we don't have an exact clue.

But, with all the respect for Toriyama and what he has accomplished ...
Not he himself but his employer Shueisha has the intellectual rights for DB.
Toriyama does not own anything.
There is so much money to be made for the franchise.
How can they let a 64-year-old man, who even does not hold the intellectual rights, let decide over the multimillion money-making future of the franchise, even if he's burned out and doesn't want anymore? If he dies tomorrow, they can still earn a massive amount of money with DB.

In Japan the original creator maintains final say on projects and products. Shueisha still needs to ask Toriyama for permission, even if he might give them a lot of leeway.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Didn't the mangaka of Saint Seiya really shove his nose into the anime series?

[JulieYBM]

Didn't the mangaka of Saint Seiya really shove his nose into the anime series?

I know there are rumors that he got Yama'uchi Shigeyasu (probably the greatest Toei director of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s before leaving the studio and his followers coming into their own) fired and then also pushed for a recast of the voice actors in the mid-2000s but I am honestly not sure of where these claims come from.

[ZombieVito]

If they will really be adapting the manga, then in the meanwhile I would have liked it if they started adapting it from the beginning, adding some stuff from the anime where possible and finally giving us a high quality Dragon Ball Super TV show.

Now this is some frightening shit right here.

[Matches Malone]

If they will really be adapting the manga, then in the meanwhile I would have liked it if they started adapting it from the beginning, adding some stuff from the anime where possible and finally giving us a high quality Dragon Ball Super TV show.

Now this is some frightening shit right here.

Apart from a few things here and there, the anime is overall a better product so adapting the manga from the beginning would make as much sense as retelling BOG and RF.

[sangofe]

If they will really be adapting the manga, then in the meanwhile I would have liked it if they started adapting it from the beginning, adding some stuff from the anime where possible and finally giving us a high quality Dragon Ball Super TV show.

Now this is some frightening shit right here.

Apart from a few things here and there, the anime is overall a better product so adapting the manga from the beginning would make as much sense as retelling BOG and RF.

Agreed. Why the hell adapting the manga from the start? There's not that many differences either.

[Skar]

In Japan the original creator maintains final say on projects and products. Shueisha still needs to ask Toriyama for permission, even if he might give them a lot of leeway.

I remember the producer (or director?) of DBS: Broly saying it ultimately depends on Toriyama if the series continues. I think it's great they have enough respect for the original author to give them the final say. You hear it a lot that the series will go on as long as it makes money but that could be said about literally every franchise. There are plently of successful stories that end when the author deels it's a good place and not continue until they're cancelled.

[Mister_Popo]

You really think so? We have no idea if Toriyama was happy or not with Super’s anime. Fact is, he always talked well about the manga meanwhile he publicly criticized the anime. And guess what, currently Super is only alive in manga form, with Toriyama still helping with it.

I doubt he cares much about money nowadays. But if that’s all he cares about, it’s more of a reason to just have movies as it’s less work, probably more cash and higher quality.

By the way, none of us here have any clue.

Absolutely correct we don't have an exact clue.

But, with all the respect for Toriyama and what he has accomplished ...
Not he himself but his employer Shueisha has the intellectual rights for DB.
Toriyama does not own anything.
There is so much money to be made for the franchise.
How can they let a 64-year-old man, who even does not hold the intellectual rights, let decide over the multimillion money-making future of the franchise, even if he's burned out and doesn't want anymore? If he dies tomorrow, they can still earn a massive amount of money with DB.

In Japan the original creator maintains final say on projects and products. Shueisha still needs to ask Toriyama for permission, even if he might give them a lot of leeway.

Shueisha is the ultimate rights holder (they're the ones who even created the Dragon Ball department). Toei holds the right for the anime, Bandai for merchandise, etc. Toriyama nor Bird Studio own the series in that manner. Toriyama is the creator of the series, and he should be credited as such, but he does not have control over the creative license.
As a mark of respect, they'll ask him, also because they still want to use his name (therefore they need permission), but practically at the end of the day Toriyama can't hold anything back concerning the production of a new DB-anime.

When Stan Lee still lived, the creator of many Marvel superheroes, he could not hold back the production of a Spider-Man movie even if he wanted to. Marvel however could.

[Skar]

As a mark of respect, they'll ask him, also because they still want to use his name (therefore they need permission), but practically at the end of the day Toriyama can't hold anything back concerning the production of a new DB-anime.

I forgot exactly how it went but one of Toriyama's old editors mentioned that Toei approached Toriyama in 2008 to help with a new DB anime. Toriyama refused so the editor recommended they release DBZ again but with less filler to be closer to the manga.

If Toei really wanted to continue on their own, they likely would've done it by now in the 18 years between GT and DBS. I don't think they would risk it knowing the series won't be as successful and probably won't last as long without Toriyama. The worst way for any series to end is cancellation when it's no longer making enough money.

[Mister_Popo]

As a mark of respect, they'll ask him, also because they still want to use his name (therefore they need permission), but practically at the end of the day Toriyama can't hold anything back concerning the production of a new DB-anime.

I forgot exactly how it went but one of Toriyama's old editors mentioned that Toei approached Toriyama in 2008 to help with a new DB anime. Toriyama refused so the editor recommended they release DBZ again but with less filler to be closer to the manga.

If Toei really wanted to continue on their own, they likely would've done it by now in the 18 years between GT and DBS. I don't think they would risk it knowing the series won't be as successful and probably won't last as long without Toriyama. The worst way for any series to end is cancellation when it's no longer making enough money.

Yes. But back in the days GT was considered a sidestory to begin with. It was not a continuation of the official storyline supported by the creative licenseholders Shueisha, accompagnied by a manga, like we have now. It was simply TOEI making things up by their own, and it wasn't the most succesful DB ever made.

Now we have a different situation. The franchise knows more than ever how important Toriyamas name is and how much it sells. Back in the day with GT they were naieve thinking they could pull this one off without using his name. If Toriyama no longer wants to be actively involved with the franchise, writing outlines, drawing designs etc ... the franchise can bypass this by giving him a quick last final check of the content before release (so if there is really something which bothers him can still be altered) and then use the label 'Toriyama presents', or 'approved by Toriyama' keeping his level of involvement both vague AND very much emphasized in both anime- and manga-continuities (an official continuation of the story that does not equal GT). It would not make much sense for Toriyama not to allow this, as he would rebel with that against the earnings of his own employer, who still holds the creative license anyways, and miss a lot of revenue himself with basically doing nothing or even much less than he's doing today.

It could very well be the case money isn't everything anymore for Toriyama. But: if the franchise would want to move on without him, i'm sure they'd find a work around, a method in which they'd still use his name efficiently without him being actively involved.

[JulieYBM]

Absolutely correct we don't have an exact clue.

But, with all the respect for Toriyama and what he has accomplished ...
Not he himself but his employer Shueisha has the intellectual rights for DB.
Toriyama does not own anything.
There is so much money to be made for the franchise.
How can they let a 64-year-old man, who even does not hold the intellectual rights, let decide over the multimillion money-making future of the franchise, even if he's burned out and doesn't want anymore? If he dies tomorrow, they can still earn a massive amount of money with DB.

In Japan the original creator maintains final say on projects and products. Shueisha still needs to ask Toriyama for permission, even if he might give them a lot of leeway.

Shueisha is the ultimate rights holder (they're the ones who even created the Dragon Ball department). Toei holds the right for the anime, Bandai for merchandise, etc. Toriyama nor Bird Studio own the series in that manner. Toriyama is the creator of the series, and he should be credited as such, but he does not have control over the creative license.
As a mark of respect, they'll ask him, also because they still want to use his name (therefore they need permission), but practically at the end of the day Toriyama can't hold anything back concerning the production of a new DB-anime.

When Stan Lee still lived, the creator of many Marvel superheroes, he could not hold back the production of a Spider-Man movie even if he wanted to. Marvel however could.

The original author has authority by law over these things. This is in contrast to how in the US the original creator usually sells all of their rights to corporations. If the original creator doesn't like something in an adaption things can get very difficult for the adaptation team. This is why Sailor Moon adaptions are so hard to do, for example.

[Mister_Popo]

In Japan the original creator maintains final say on projects and products. Shueisha still needs to ask Toriyama for permission, even if he might give them a lot of leeway.

Shueisha is the ultimate rights holder (they're the ones who even created the Dragon Ball department). Toei holds the right for the anime, Bandai for merchandise, etc. Toriyama nor Bird Studio own the series in that manner. Toriyama is the creator of the series, and he should be credited as such, but he does not have control over the creative license.
As a mark of respect, they'll ask him, also because they still want to use his name (therefore they need permission), but practically at the end of the day Toriyama can't hold anything back concerning the production of a new DB-anime.

When Stan Lee still lived, the creator of many Marvel superheroes, he could not hold back the production of a Spider-Man movie even if he wanted to. Marvel however could.

The original author has authority by law over these things. This is in contrast to how in the US the original creator usually sells all of their rights to corporations. If the original creator doesn't like something in an adaption things can get very difficult for the adaptation team. This is why Sailor Moon adaptions are so hard to do, for example.

Yes, completely true, but technically speaking the owner of DB is not Akira Toriyama, he could only have made DB with the license of Shueisha.

I found this post on Kanzenshuu concerning this matter:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31294&p=973733

Quote VegettoEX:

"Shueisha is the ultimate rights-holder, with Dragon Ball being originally created for any published through them. Everything is dished out from there (Toei for animation, Bandai for merchandise, etc.).

Near as we can tell, Toriyama / Bird Studio does not outright own the series in any way; the best explanation I can give is that it's like a "work-for-hire" kind of thing. Toriyama is certainly given the respect he deserves as the original author and is clearly given free reign to do anything he wants with it, but Shueisha can also do whatever THEY want with it, with or without his permission."

[sangofe]

Shueisha is the ultimate rights holder (they're the ones who even created the Dragon Ball department). Toei holds the right for the anime, Bandai for merchandise, etc. Toriyama nor Bird Studio own the series in that manner. Toriyama is the creator of the series, and he should be credited as such, but he does not have control over the creative license.
As a mark of respect, they'll ask him, also because they still want to use his name (therefore they need permission), but practically at the end of the day Toriyama can't hold anything back concerning the production of a new DB-anime.

When Stan Lee still lived, the creator of many Marvel superheroes, he could not hold back the production of a Spider-Man movie even if he wanted to. Marvel however could.

The original author has authority by law over these things. This is in contrast to how in the US the original creator usually sells all of their rights to corporations. If the original creator doesn't like something in an adaption things can get very difficult for the adaptation team. This is why Sailor Moon adaptions are so hard to do, for example.

Yes, completely true, but technically speaking the owner of DB is not Akira Toriyama, he could only have made DB with the license of Shueisha.

I found this post on Kanzenshuu concerning this matter:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31294&p=973733

Quote VegettoEX:

"Shueisha is the ultimate rights-holder, with Dragon Ball being originally created for any published through them. Everything is dished out from there (Toei for animation, Bandai for merchandise, etc.).

Near as we can tell, Toriyama / Bird Studio does not outright own the series in any way; the best explanation I can give is that it's like a "work-for-hire" kind of thing. Toriyama is certainly given the respect he deserves as the original author and is clearly given free reign to do anything he wants with it, but Shueisha can also do whatever THEY want with it, with or without his permission."

But Shueisha isn't Toei. Are you showing this quote to show that the manga might be still ongoing even though Toriyama shouldn't like it?

[Skar]

Now we have a different situation. The franchise knows more than ever how important Toriyamas name is and how much it sells. Back in the day with GT they were naieve thinking they could pull this one off without using his name. If Toriyama no longer wants to be actively involved with the franchise, writing outlines, drawing designs etc ... the franchise can bypass this by giving him a quick last final check of the content before release (so if there is really something which bothers him can still be altered) and then use the label 'Toriyama presents', or 'approved by Toriyama' keeping his level of involvement both vague AND very much emphasized in both anime- and manga-continuities (an official continuation of the story that does not equal GT). It would not make much sense for Toriyama not to allow this, as he would rebel with that against the earnings of his own employer, who still holds the creative license anyways, and miss a lot of revenue himself with basically doing nothing or even much less than he's doing today.

Toei staff and Toyotaro have been honest in interviews when it comes to Toriyama's involvement and what ideas they came up with themselves. I don't think they would suddenly want to deceive fans into believing he has more involvement than he really does. If they did decide to go this route, how long do you think that anime would last? 50 episodes? 100 episodes? At best I think this strategy only extends this revival a little longer but I doubt this intend for it work for another long running continuous anime.