Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 5 - DB Episodes 21-25

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Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 5 - DB Episodes 21-25

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:38 pm

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Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 5 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies (more on that later, when we actually get there).
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

I'm a little behind at the moment. :lol:
Still, love this arc, so binging through a few episodes will be quite easy, once I've found some time to do so. :)

Previous thread: Week 4 (DB 16-20)
Next thread: Week 6 (DB 26-30)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 21 - Watch Out, Kuririn!
Dub title: Smells Like Trouble / Krillin's Trial
Originally aired 16th of July 1986


The first round of the Tenkaichi Budōkai main event is Kuririn vs Bacterian! Bacterian is a formidable opponent who uses his filth as a weapon, with his foul smell paralyzing his opponents. With bad breath, farts, and the like, he assaults Kuririn with foul-smelling attacks!! The helpless Kuririn is finally downed!! At that time, Kuririn awakens from this nightmare of smells when Goku tells him “You don’t have a nose!”. Launching a fierce counterattack against Bacterian, Kuririn breaks through the first round!

Anime-only/filler content: Roshi giving Bulma a shirt and asking to pafu-pafu, Kuririn getting cornered by Bacterian and trying to jump between his legs.

Episode 22 - Yamucha vs Jackie Chun
Dub title: Quarterfinals Begin / Secrets & Successes
Originally aired 23rd of July 1986


It’s the second match, Yamucha vs Jackie Chun! The mysterious old man Jackie Chun defies Yamucha’s rapid attacks, and breaks through even his special attack, the Rōga Fū-Fū Ken!! Furthermore, Jackie seizes victory by raising a wind with a swing of his left hand, blowing Yamucha out of bounds! In the third match, the serious Namu is assaulted by Ran-Fan’s sex appeal strategy!! But Namu achieves a turnabout victory when he defeats Ran-Fan with a single blow after freeing himself from distracting thoughts!

Anime-only/filler content: The early instance of Namu's backstory

Episode 23 - He’s Here! The Mighty Foe Giran
Dub title: Monster Beast Giran / A Tail To Remember
Originally aired 30th of July 1986


At last it’s Goku’s turn! The one facing Goku in the fourth match was the powerful opponent Giran!! Goku is knocked around by Giran’s stream of unfair attacks! Giran traps Goku in the rubbery Guru-Guru Gum that he shoots from his mouth!! Goku is in an absolutely desperate pinch! Just as he is about to be thrown out of the ring, his chopped-off tail suddenly grows back, and his power multiplies! Seeing this, Giran surrenders!!

Anime-only/filler content: The entire first half with the rainstorm and the milk bar, Goku stuggling against Giran's gum takes MUCH longer than in the manga.

Episode 24 - Kuririn’s Desperate Offensive-Defensive Battle
Dub title: Krillin's Frantic Attack / Slow Motion Camera
Originally aired 6th of August 1986


The fifth match is the semi-finals fight, Kuririn vs Jackie Chun. Kuririn and Jackie’s battle unfolds at ultra-fast speed that the eye can’t follow!! The spectators who came to watch the Tenka’ichi Budōkai are extremely excited by the pair’s high level battle!! Kuririn puts up a good fight against Jackie, but he rushes to win! Because of this, he is hit by Jackie’s karate chops after Jackie goes around behind his back, and is downed!! Sadly, Kuririn is defeated during the semi-finals.

No significnat anime-only/filler content.

Episode 25 - Get Up, Goku! The Fearsome Tenkū Pekeji-Ken
Dub title: Danger From Above / The Last Semi-Triumph
Originally aired 13th of August 1986


The sixth match is Goku and Namu’s semi-finals fight. Goku attacks Namu by imitating the Zanzouken that Jackie displayed during his fight with Kuririn. Namu skillfully dodges this attack! Namu attempts to finish Goku off with his special attack, the Tenkū Pekeji-Ken! Goku is hit by the attack and downed, but revives right before the count of ten! Namu further comes out him with the Super Tenkū Pekeji-Ken, but Goku breaks through the technique. Goku then advances to the finals!

No significant anime-only/filler content.

-

Interesting trivia:
  • Episode 22 marks the first change in ending visuals: The shot of Yamucha, Goku, Pu'er, and Kuririn in dresses is replaced with a shot of blue-haired Lunch on Roshi's island with Goku on the Kinto Un in the background. This is the version of the ending visuals that would be used in all Funimation releases of all episodes of Dragon Ball. Releases that don't use Funimation's masters would next change visuals at episode 102.
  • By now, I'm sure we all know about Harmony Gold's 1986 dub of Dragon Ball episode 1-5 and the first movie, which renamed Goku to Zero (and Bulma to Lena, Yamucha to Zedaki, Karin to Whiskers The Wonder-Cat, etc.). What's not quite so commonly-known is that they seem to have written scripts up to about episode 60, which formed the basis of a Latin American dub of those first 60 episodes (under the title "Zero y el Dragón Mágico"). From this, we can determine certain localisation changes Harmony Gold likely would have made for their own dub, had they continued past episode 5, such as in episode 21 of the Latin American version, where the announcer misreads Zero's name on the sheet as "Son Goku".
  • Speaking of the announcer reading Goku's name, the way that was handled varies wildly depending on version. In the original Japanese, he misread the kanji for Goku's name as "Mago Gosora". I already noted Harmony Gold and Zero y el Dragón Mágico having him read the wrong name, Goku instead of Zero, but the French and German dubs have him read Goku's name backwards, as Ukog-Nos; the Polish dub does similar, but cuts off the first two letters, thus having him read it as Ognos, and in the Funimation dub, he mispronounces Goku's name as Go-kei-ya. The Blue Water dub has the announcer try several different incorrect pronunciations -- Gao-kei, Mr Gocko, Gookee, Gookwa, Gwakei-oh, Gockai, Gweekah, and Gokwai -- as he tries to figure out how to say the name.
  • Episode 21 establishes Kuririn doesn't have a nose, whereas episode 24 has Kuririn explain that he blew his nose at Jackie Chun during their slow-motion re-enactment of their super-fast bout.
  • Allegedly, Funimation's TV edit of episode 22 completely cut Ranfan stripping, instead using footage from earlier in the episode to imply he tried another attack and knocked her out. However recaps in later episodes would not cut the footage of her in her underwear. (Do note that this is anecdotal; I have yet to see any footage of Funi's OG DB TV edit surface to confirm accounts like this) Meanwhile, Blue Water's dub simply cut the shots of her actually stripping down, but otherwise rendered the scene accurately.
  • The Tournament Title Card for the 21st TB is notably based on the title card for Golden Harvest, starting from 1972, and used in many Bruce Lee films which inspired some small Dragon Ball storylines (such as Goku getting money from the martial artist on the streets of West City, and the Muscle Tower storyline). The synth theme and the appearance of the red text in portions are notably similar. Ironically Golden Harvest would retire this title card in 2003, the same year the Funi dub finished airing the original Dragon Ball.
  • Episode 23 is the first to use the Tenkaichi Budokai title card. The 21st TB however doesn't start using this until the third Finals match; meanwhie, the later two tournament arcs consistently use it at the beginning of the Tournament Finals. It would notably change slightly with each tournament: audio for the 22nd TB, and a full re-animation for the 23rd.
  • We will see Bacterian again much later, in a scene where Tambourine murders him.
  • Jackie Chun should technically be disqualified at the end of his match with Kuririn, as he exits the arena before he is officially declared the winner.
  • Funimation's title for episode 22, Quarterfinals Begin, was later reused for an episode in the 22nd Tenkaichi arc. Though oddly enough, Funimation's DVD menu incorrectly lists episode 22's title as Quarterfinals Continue.
Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo courtesy of KBABZ.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:44 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:54 pm

Where do the alternate English titles come from?

Anyways

I like the match-ups for the quarterfinals.

Giant behemoth of a smelly man vs short kid with no nose

A young pretty boy with anxiety around women vs a dirty old man who is too forward with women

A modern woman using sexuality to win vs a chaste religious men

A monstrous bully vs a pure hearted young boy


The fight with Bacteria vs Kuririn was probably the grossest fight in Dragon Ball. The loogie especially nearly made me gag.

I too heard Toonami edited around Ranfan stripping to her underwear. Can’t remember to confirm. I will say Toonami’s solution to Tenchi Muyo’s nudity was digital bikinis and underwear isn’t all that different. But I could also see Toonami be uneasy of the sexuality the fact she’s taking off clothes to seduce someone.


The fact that Nam was originally a very religious man is of course utterly removed by Funimation even in the uncut dub in favor of borderline racist Indian caricature.


Also can I just say what a dumb title “Quarterfinals Begin” is for episode 22? They began the previous episode...smdh
Last edited by MasenkoHA on Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:01 pm

I've always liked the tournament filler where we see them outside the arena, like the hotels and diners. It makes the tournament feel 'bigger' if that makes sense.

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:05 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:01 pm I've always liked the tournament filler where we see them outside the arena, like the hotels and diners. It makes the tournament feel 'bigger' if that makes sense.
Yeah.
Gives a lot of the "A bunch of people at a big event" feel. It's really neat.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:54 pm Where do the alternate English titles come from?
Blue Water dub.
I forgot to include them last week (though I've edited them in now), and the episodes before that used the same titles in both Funi and Blue Water (except for episode 9, which I did include the BW title of), but I'll be including them from here on out. I put Funi's titles first since people here are more likely to be more familiar with those, and they aired first.

Blue Water mostly based its scripts off Funi's, with a lot of modifications and corrections, though with more of an emphasis on making things feel natural and flow-y, though accuracy was often improved along the way too. Episode titles are a similar case, so a lot of them end up quite different to Funi's.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:54 pm Anyways
I like the match-ups for the quarterfinals.
Giant behemoth of a smelly man vs short kid with no nose
A young pretty boy with anxiety around women vs a dirty old men who is too forward with women
A modern woman using sexuality to win vs a chaste religious men
A monstrous bully vs a pure hearted young boy
:thumbup:
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:54 pm The fight with Bacteria vs Kuririn was probably the grossest fight in Dragon Ball. The loogie especially nearly made me gag.

I too heard Toonami edited around Ranfan stripping to her underwear. Can’t remember to confirm. I will say Toonami’s solution to Tenchi Muyo’s nudity was digital bikinis and underwear isn’t all that different. But I could also see Toonami be uneasy of the sexuality the fact she’s taking off clothes to seduce someone.
Honestly, I found the Bacterian fight funny as a kid, and I still kinda do. But yeah, it's pretty gross.

One could point out a double-standard that Funi were fine to just paint underwear over male nudity, and as you note, digital bikinis were added in some shows, and note that in Dragon Ball itself, there's a span of episodes in the Red Ribbon arc where Bulma is wearing nothing but a bikini, but Funi cut a girl in her underwear here...
But I do think the sexual context changes this. Though I imagine that change would result in a pretty clunky episode, to be honest.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:54 pm The fact that Nam was originally a very religious man is of course utterly removed by Funimation even in the uncut dub in favor of borderline racist Indian caricature.
Of course. That's early Funi for you... Any religious references are offensive, but racism is A-OK.
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:42 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:05 pm
Blue Water dub.
I forgot to include them last week (though I've edited them in now), and the episodes before that used the same titles in both Funi and Blue Water (except for episode 9, which I did include the BW title of), but I'll be including them from here on out. I put Funi's titles first since people here are more likely to be more familiar with those, and they aired first.
Ah I see. I will say I prefer Funimation’s titles since they tend to be closer westernized approximations of the Japanese titles where it looks like Blue Water went for standard western kids show episode naming conventions (pop culture references, alliterations, play on words, stock phrases)
One could point out a double-standard that Funi were fine to just paint underwear over male nudity, and as you note, digital bikinis were added in some shows, and note that in Dragon Ball itself, there's a span of episodes in the Red Ribbon arc where Bulma is wearing nothing but a bikini, but Funi cut a girl in her underwear here...
It would have been Toonami who made that call not Funimation. You can blame Funimation for all the unnecessary dialog censorship in their uncut release but things that had to be removed to appease Toonami’s broadcast standards is kind of out of their hands. Like blaming Funimation for Saban’s draconian censorship requirements in the syndicated era of Z.

But I do think the sexual context changes this. Though I imagine that change would result in a pretty clunky episode, to be honest.
How did the Blue Water dub handle the scene?
Of course. That's early Funi for you... Any religious references are offensive, but racism is A-OK.
What’s funny is back in the syndication days references to Christianity were a-okay. Piccolo mentions David and Goliath and Krillin says the bedtime prayer (not sure if the uncut redub changed this stuff). Granted it wasn’t anything heavy (I think Krillin is only heard saying “And now I lay me down to sleep..” but things like Goku reciting a Buddhist prayer at Muscle Tower, any direct references to God or praying to God that kind of stuff is where Funimation is like ummm no. (And really if they can change Mr.Satan from Hercule for the broadcast release of Z but keep him as Mr.Satan for home video they could keep all the God stuff and go back to vague guardian of the earth garbage for Toonami)

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:52 pm

Having Krillin fight Bacterian instead of having Ranfan fight him is a missed oppurtunity. DB coulda beaten the Simpson's to the "You promised if I slept with you I wouldn't have to touch him!" joke.
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:03 pm

Anyone who already read the OP, I suggest you check out the trivia section again. KBABZ wasn't online when I posted it, but he is now, so he and I have revised it a little. :)
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:42 pm What’s funny is back in the syndication days references to Christianity were a-okay. Piccolo mentions David and Goliath and Krillin says the bedtime prayer (not sure if the uncut redub changed this stuff). Granted it wasn’t anything heavy (I think Krillin is only heard saying “And now I lay me down to sleep..” but things like Goku reciting a Buddhist prayer at Muscle Tower, any direct references to God or praying to God that kind of stuff is where Funimation is like ummm no. (And really if they can change Mr.Satan from Hercule for the broadcast release of Z but keep him as Mr.Satan for home video they could keep all the God stuff and go back to vague guardian of the earth garbage for Toonami)
Indeed!
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:42 pm Ah I see. I will say I prefer Funimation’s titles since they tend to be closer westernized approximations of the Japanese titles where it looks like Blue Water went for standard western kids show episode naming conventions (pop culture references, alliterations, play on words, stock phrases)
Fair.

Though Blue Water's episode titles get a lot closer to the Japanese titles later on. Much like the Blue Water DB dub itself, the faithfulness of the title cards to the original Japanese is comparable to Funi's dub early on, but once we're the other side of the Red Ribbon storyline, they're very faithful, as I recall.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:42 pm It would have been Toonami who made that call not Funimation. You can blame Funimation for all the unnecessary dialog censorship in their uncut release but things that had to be removed to appease Toonami’s broadcast standards is kind of out of their hands. Like blaming Funimation for Saban’s draconian censorship requirements in the syndicated era of Z.
No, Toonami didn't call the shots. Funi worked with a board of censors who would tell them what they were and weren't allowed to do. Chris Sabat talked about this in his interview with Geekdom.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:42 pm How did the Blue Water dub handle the scene?
Shots of her stripping were cut, but we plainly see her in her underwear, freaking Nam out, walking towards him, running at him, teasing him verbally a little, trying to attack him, etc... It's pretty faithfully presented, just without the stripping itself shown.
(Thanks for asking this; now that I've found this out, I've added it to the OP, since I was already messing with it to add some stuff KBABZ and I brainstormed adding :) )
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:08 pm

Never liked Bacterian, or Kuririn's fight against him. I'd skip that episode, but as I'm reviewing the entire series I'll rewatch it for now.
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by ABED » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:11 pm

Maybe it's just me, but even though the universe expands in later arcs to where they aren't just visiting other planets and galaxies, but other universes, the world somehow feels smaller. The world felt bigger when Goku was exploring the world and taking planes to Papaya Island.

Kuririn being overwhelmed by Bacterian's odor only to remember he has no nose makes no literal sense, but I still love it. Logic is overrated when there's a joke that good.

Does anyone have a good translation for Tenku Pekejiken? The best I've got is Heavenly X-Mark Attack.
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:59 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:08 pm Never liked Bacterian, or Kuririn's fight against him. I'd skip that episode, but as I'm reviewing the entire series I'll rewatch it for now.
I think we're all going to be watching some stuff we'd skip for a casual viewing here. :lol:

That said, there's no shame in skipping over something if you really hate it.
I'll probably swap out some of the lesser movies for their Big Green dubs to make them more tolerable. :lol:
ABED wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:11 pm Kuririn being overwhelmed by Bacterian's odor only to remember he has no nose makes no literal sense, but I still love it. Logic is overrated when there's a joke that good.
I think this might be my favourite joke in all of Dragon Ball.
ABED wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:11 pm Maybe it's just me, but even though the universe expands in later arcs to where they aren't just visiting other planets and galaxies, but other universes, the world somehow feels smaller. The world felt bigger when Goku was exploring the world and taking planes to Papaya Island.
At this period in Dragon Ball, the world is rich; every corner of Dragon Ball's earth is full of character and life, you really get the feeling of how small everyone is in comparison to their world, every place feels distinct, you really get a sense of where places are relative to each-other, etc.

Later on, we get introduced to the planet Namek. Other than the fact we're told it takes ages to get there when Bulma, Gohan, and Kuririn get there, which makes space feel quite big and scary, Namek might as well just be a small island just off of East City; there's no variety from area to area, the world is never even implied to be very big, with travel times being tiny, no biomes of any kind, and everything important seeming to happen around one small, easily-navigable space.

And we're introduced to the afterlife, which seems to be a hell that's about the size of a summer camp, a heaven that seems to basically be a small field, the check-in station which is just a rather large room, there's a few planes which take people to heaven or hell, or to the Grand Kaio's planet, which is stated to be a planet, but like Namek, seems to basically be about the size of a town or and island or something...

To cut this ramble short: Dragon Ball reaches wider and wider as it goes on, but it very quickly stops reaching tall. The more places it goes, the less rich each place gets. This isn't a fundamental flaw in expanding a universe, but it's a common pitfall writers fall into when writing bigger universes. You can have a journey around the entire universe to search for seven objects, but make it feel like they're barely crossing a state line.
ABED wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:11 pm Does anyone have a good translation for Tenku Pekejiken? The best I've got is Heavenly X-Mark Attack.
Herms sheds a little light on this in his name pun roundup, though I'm unsure how accurate the Viz rendering he quotes is, and I think he might be referring to the prayer rather than the attack...
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This comes from the Buddhist phrase 南無阿弥陀仏/namu-amida-butsu (originally namo'mitābhāya. in Sanskrit), an invocation of Amitābha, the “Buddha of Infinite Light”. The phrase is used as a chant during meditation. In the series, Namu himself says this chant when performing the Tenku-Pekeji-Ken on Goku (in Viz this is rendered “In the name of the Buddha!”). Incidentally, according to the guidebooks Namu has two younger brothers named Ami and Dabu, whose names are also clearly derived from this.
Toriyama Explanation: “I don’t remember at all, but wouldn’t his name probably just be derived from ‘Namu-amida-butsu’?” [DBF]
Source Spelling: 南無阿弥陀仏/Namu-amida-butsu
Name Spelling: ナム/Namu
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:58 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:11 pm Does anyone have a good translation for Tenku Pekejiken? The best I've got is Heavenly X-Mark Attack.
That's exactly what it means.

天空 - tenkuu (the heavens)
X/ペケ - peke (X-mark)
字 - ji (characters/writing)
拳 - ken (fist/"attack")

The X-mark usage is apparently like you find over incorrect answers on a test, as in something that's no good.

Robo4900 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:59 pm Herms sheds a little light on this in his name pun roundup, though I'm unsure how accurate the Viz rendering he quotes is, and I think he might be referring to the prayer rather than the attack...
He's referring to the prayer.

From Herms' Special Attack Index translated from Daizenshuu 7:
Namu
Tenku Pekeji-Ken [tenkuu peke-ji ken; lt. “Heavenly X-Mark Attack”]

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:47 am

The thing with Jackie Chun/Roshi stepping out of the ring before the announcer declared him winner was quite a noticeable error to me and has never made any sense, because the rules of matches are clearly stated that if either fighter rings out in any fashion during the course of battle they are automatically disqualified no exceptions. Was this an anime only thing? I surely don't remember the manga having this but it's been quite a while since i last read it.
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Witty User Name » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:06 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:47 am The thing with Jackie Chun/Roshi stepping out of the ring before the announcer declared him winner was quite a noticeable error to me and has never made any sense, because the rules of matches are clearly stated that if either fighter rings out in any fashion during the course of battle they are automatically disqualified no exceptions. Was this an anime only thing? I surely don't remember the manga having this but it's been quite a while since i last read it.
Ditto. I have the same question.

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by KBABZ » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:35 am

Witty User Name wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:06 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:47 am The thing with Jackie Chun/Roshi stepping out of the ring before the announcer declared him winner was quite a noticeable error to me and has never made any sense, because the rules of matches are clearly stated that if either fighter rings out in any fashion during the course of battle they are automatically disqualified no exceptions. Was this an anime only thing? I surely don't remember the manga having this but it's been quite a while since i last read it.
Ditto. I have the same question.
Looking at the manga, Jackie very clearly has his foot on the steps out of the ring as the Announcer is counting:

Image

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:15 am

KBABZ wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:35 am
Witty User Name wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:06 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:47 am The thing with Jackie Chun/Roshi stepping out of the ring before the announcer declared him winner was quite a noticeable error to me and has never made any sense, because the rules of matches are clearly stated that if either fighter rings out in any fashion during the course of battle they are automatically disqualified no exceptions. Was this an anime only thing? I surely don't remember the manga having this but it's been quite a while since i last read it.
Ditto. I have the same question.
Looking at the manga, Jackie very clearly has his foot on the steps out of the ring as the Announcer is counting:

Image
Was this is after or before the dog priest guy ruled that Kintoun was legal. If the former maybe Roshi figured the rules were pretty loose.
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by KBABZ » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:31 am

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:15 am Was this is after or before the dog priest guy ruled that Kintoun was legal. If the former maybe Roshi figured the rules were pretty loose.
That would be after, Goku vs Giran is the final match of the Quarterfinals. But it's implied Roshi has been and competed here before, so he himself should be well-versed in the rules by now.

Kinto'un wasn't ruled legal technically speaking, it was illegal but Goku genuinely didn't know or have any reason to believe it wasn't allowed, especially since Giran himself could fly just before that.

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:51 am

ABED wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:11 pmMaybe it's just me, but even though the universe expands in later arcs to where they aren't just visiting other planets and galaxies, but other universes, the world somehow feels smaller.
I think the reason these universes seem small and insignificant is because the concept was not meant to be explored, but was rather brought up in BOG as a way to show that no matter how far Goku got, there would always be something and someone else out there. BOG was made as a one off story, so to everyone involved, including Toriyama, it was the only and possibly last main DB story we would've gotten. I think had they known ahead of time how successful it was going to be, they would've held off on the concepts introduced in it, such as the destroyers, universes, SsjG, etc. until later down the line.

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:36 am

Episode 21 - Watch Out! Kuririn

This has to be the first of the recaps as we'd come to know them in the show.

Goku standing on the older dude's head is a great little gag.

Man, I love how close Goku and Kuririn have grown.

I always did love the logic of "He smells so bad, you can't use your hands to fight him, 'cause you're using at least one of them to block your nose up!" in regards to Bacterian.

Giran is such a weird, goofy design. Love it.

The announcer misreading the kanji is a funny little gag (though the subtitles could've done with a TL note explaining it), but most of all, I find this gag interesting from the point of view of it being fun to think of, hypothetically, how one would translate it. Say if you were writing a dub script, how would you translate this joke into English?
Him not being sure how to pronounce it, as it was done in the known English dubs, isn't a bad way to do it. 'Course Harmony Gold's would've apparently had him just read out the wrong name (actually, one detail I forgot when writing this piece of trivia is that the name he was reading out was stated to be his own name :lol:), which isn't a bad way to do it either, though trying to find a justification for how an extra name got on there could be clunky.

Anyway, that aside...
"Lanfang-san"
I don't think I've ever seen this episode subtitled, so this is my first time becoming aware of the sub spelling of the character I previously knew under her dub name of Ranfan...
Toriyama's comments as listed in Herms' name pun roundup: “When I was working in an advertising company, female underwear was called ‘Ran-Fan’. This comes from an abbreviation of ‘Lingerie and Foundation’. The character has that sort of image.”
Given this, I can see the choice to go with "Lan", but "Fang" seems like on odd choice there...
I don't think this name adapts into English at all tbh, however you spell it. :lol:

Goku insisting on eating before the match is delightful, but as a sidenote, I always thought Stephanie Nadolny's delivery combined with how utterly stupid the line is gives quite a lot of memetic value to "I will eat!", which I think has been overlooked in the realm of Dragon Ball memes.
(Yes, this was entirely just an excuse to link that dumb Sparta Remix. Also, anyone else remember Sparta Remixes? Man, those were fun for a while. In fairness, that Phoenix Wright one from 2009 blew every other one out of the water, so it's fitting that they kinda died out after that. Still, I do kinda miss them. They were fun)

The droopy dog woof gag is amazing.

Anyone else find this perspective super weird and offputting? :lol:
Image
Looks like the announcer and Kuririn are standing just like half a foot away.
Arguably could just be that the tiles are really big and the foot positions and shadows are just deceptive-looking, but take a look at this shot from the side...
Image
If Kuririn and the announcer were really standing on adjacent tiles as in the former photo, merely three tiles from the edge (and that continuity is not kept outside that shot :lol:), then Kuririn would be about twice as tall as we see him in every other shot.
This bothers me a lot.
It's just one shot, but...

Also yeah, Bacterian is utterly disgusting. "Kuririn, you don't have a nose!" is a great gag, but I feel like it could've been built up to a little quicker... And then of course, it kinda just keeps going after that for a little while...
Having said that, I love the crowd being on Kuririn's side. That's gotta be a needed confidence boost for him.

Episode 22 - Yamucha vs Jackie Chun

I like that Namu has a serious, sympathetic motivation.

Goku and Giran's little food face-off is great.

lol. Roshi dealt with Yamucha real quick. Forgot how quick that was. I do like his weird wind technique there. And we never really see that wind technique, nor his mind-reading, ever again. (Though IIRC Goku reads Kuririn's mind in the Namek arc at one point)

Roshi: "So that's it... That explains why he doesn't fit into a 'gag anime'."
Dammit Roshi, look what you did -- now there's fourth wall pieces all over the floor.

Woah. Kinda surreal how the announcer counts Lanfang out in English.

I'm enjoying rewatching this arc very much. :)
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by KBABZ » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:08 am

Robo4900 wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:36 am lol. Roshi dealt with Yamucha real quick. Forgot how quick that was. I do like his weird wind technique there. And we never really see that wind technique, nor his mind-reading, ever again.
The wind blowing hand swipe did make one other appearance: it's how Goku non-lethally removes Anonymous from the ring so that she'll reveal her identity (Chi-Chi, of course).

Roshi's got Goku beat on the mind-reading though: Goku had to touch Krillin's head when he did it!

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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 5 - DB episodes 21-25

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:55 am

Matches Malone wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:51 am
ABED wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:11 pmMaybe it's just me, but even though the universe expands in later arcs to where they aren't just visiting other planets and galaxies, but other universes, the world somehow feels smaller.
I think the reason these universes seem small and insignificant is because the concept was not meant to be explored, but was rather brought up in BOG as a way to show that no matter how far Goku got, there would always be something and someone else out there. BOG was made as a one off story, so to everyone involved, including Toriyama, it was the only and possibly last main DB story we would've gotten. I think had they known ahead of time how successful it was going to be, they would've held off on the concepts introduced in it, such as the destroyers, universes, SsjG, etc. until later down the line.
Understood. I was wondering whether anyone else felt the same.

Held off? You think this many episodes in would've been too soon to introduce those new concepts?
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