Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

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Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:04 pm

Before Goku fights 19, 20/Gero gives a speech about how they were designed to be superior to Goku. For some reason that isn't entirely clear, Piccolo says something along the lines of "You talk as if you were Gero", to which 20/Gero relies by saying "Don't be absurd. I was created by him", or something to that effect.

It's a bit of a curious exchange looking back on it. Firstly why did Piccolo get that impression to begin with? I guess it could be interpreted as Gero's "creation" speaking a little too highly of his maker, but it's still a stretch to explain why Piccolo would come to the notion they're one in the same.

And also why would Gero deny his true identity? I know Toriyama intended for 19 and 20 to be the main villains, but why include this line at all? If he was already planning on 20 being Gero why have him deny it? And if he wasn't yet planning on it then why even mention it?

I'm probably looking too far into it, but it's interesting as no clear reason is ever given for his denial. As I mentioned in the other topic I'm curious about what Toriyama might have done with 19 and 20. Maybe the reason for him hiding his identity was part of some abandoned backstory idea? Probably not but it's fun to speculate.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Rory » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:34 pm

Who knows, maybe Toriyama wasn't intending on it. Maybe Gero was a totally different character that we'd meet later, and the whole 20 = Gero thing was introduced as a means of transitioning to the arc's reboot.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:48 pm

I'm guessing because its just his brain in there. not his organic body? Unlike 17 an d18.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Psajdak » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:51 pm

Well, as far as I remember, 19 always called Gero 20. but 17 and 18 called him Dr. Gero-sama when he woke them up.

Dunno, the whole RRA thing coming back was kinda retcon, anyway.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Peach » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:18 pm

Where are you getting this info that Toriyama intended 19 and 20 to be the real Androids?

I always hear people say Toriyama said this. Toriyama intended that. Never with anything to back that up.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:42 pm

Peach wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:18 pm
Where are you getting this info that Toriyama intended 19 and 20 to be the real Androids?

I always hear people say Toriyama said this. Toriyama intended that. Never with anything to back that up.
The proof is actually right here on this very website https://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/cell/

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:43 pm

Psajdak wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:51 pm
Well, as far as I remember, 19 always called Gero 20. but 17 and 18 called him Dr. Gero-sama when he woke them up.

Dunno, the whole RRA thing coming back was kinda retcon, anyway.
How was it a retcon?
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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:55 pm

Sounds like foreshadowing to me. I’m sure at that point Toriyama decided 20 would be Gero.

Psajdak wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:51 pm

Dunno, the whole RRA thing coming back was kinda retcon, anyway.
Not really. Goku didn’t kill every last Red Ribbon Army employee several soldiers were seen running. And we saw a lot of the soldiers and what not seriously believed in Commander Red’s New World Order thing, no reason a surviving mad scientist couldn’t have plot revenge for 15 years.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:00 pm

You have to wonder if Gero was ever aware of Red's true agenda.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:02 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:00 pm
You have to wonder if Gero was ever aware of Red's true agenda.
Red’s personal assistant/closest confidant was not aware I doubt Gero knew.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Not to mention given the RRA's ubiquity, it's silly to think Goku destroyed every remnant of it.
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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by coola » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:06 pm

I was wondering about that too, maybe he was afraid that if he had to escape, they would have easier time finding him, if they knew he was Dr. Gero? (Bulma knew where his hideout was)
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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:40 pm

Assuming Toriyama intended for them to be the same person from the start, I’m guessing it was just done for the sake of having a dramatic reveal, with no real in-universe reason behind it.

In all honesty though, I’m inclined to think that he didn’t intend that from the start, because if that were the case, then why did he have Trunks talk about how Dr. Gero was killed by his own creations?

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:40 pm

The exchange between Piccolo and 20/Gero happened after their first appearance right? I'm pretty sure Toriyama changed his mind on them after he debuted them when his editor mocked him for having the big bads be a fat china doll and an old geezer. I don't think 20 was suppose to be Gero initially either given that Trunks said both 19 and 20 killed Gero.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 pm

I don't think he planned on it from the start of the saga, but I think he made up his mind that he would be Gero once he actually designed and debuted #19 and 20. Why else have him be an old geezer?
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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:58 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 pm
I don't think he planned on it from the start of the saga, but I think he made up his mind, that he would be the actual doctor once he actually debuted #19 and 20. Why else have him be an old geezer?
Same reason 19 was a fat china doll?

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:33 pm

Perhaps so they wouldn't concentrate on killing him over 19.
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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:18 pm

In my best Alec Guinness impression: Cyborg 20 is not Dr. Gero... from a certain point of view.
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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:28 am

Peach wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:18 pm
Where are you getting this info that Toriyama intended 19 and 20 to be the real Androids?

I always hear people say Toriyama said this. Toriyama intended that. Never with anything to back that up.
In addition to the link the other person gave you, note that in the manga, Trunks tells Goku that the androids he speaks of are #19 and #20.

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Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:04 am

jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 pm
I don't think he planned on it from the start of the saga, but I think he made up his mind that he would be Gero once he actually designed and debuted #19 and 20. Why else have him be an old geezer?
I remember the anime had that scene during Trunks' monologue, where it shows Gero from behind, still in human form as he gets killed by the Androids (although the "Androids" look nothing like any of the Androids in that scene). It's interesting because Gero's hair in that scene is already long and white like Android 20's.

I'm guessing this bit wasn't in the manga, and was added into the anime after the revelation had already happened in the manga?

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