Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

[Toxin45]

You know I am noticing the things Team four star did in some of super's run but now I am a bit sad that Dragon ball abridged is over.

[ABED]

I find that logic specious that he doesn't care about his family any more than a group of strangers. Clearly Goku has a strong attachment to some more than others. He has a group of friends that he hangs around with and it guts Goku when harm comes to them.

Goku always flips out whenever he witnesses sensless destruction and death. The only character we can definitively say he cares about is Krillin. Krillin is the one who triggers the SSJ transformation and whom Goku goes out of his way to accomodate. Everyone else is pretty much on their own as far as Goku is concerned however angry their untimely deaths might make him.

Goku senses the death of his master. Yeah, no emotional connection there. This is before he really learns the ins and outs of ki, by the way.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

Goku senses the death of his master. Yeah, no emotional connection there. This is before he really learns the ins and outs of ki, by the way.

Goku does seem to have a special soft spot for Roshi. One that comes up again in the ToP (iirc. There's a lot of that arc my eyes were glazed over during). But that doesn't seem to extend to the other characters and, as best I can see, just helps reestablish how important the character of Roshi is. With Dragon Ball's roots in old chinese folklore and wuxia movies it doesn't surprise me that the old master character is treated differently from the rest of the cast.

[WittyUsername]

Not sure how this turned into a thread about Goku's dad abilities but

With Super, the Buu Arc, and Toriyama's owned admittance that Goku doesn't spend much time thinking about his family it's not really fanon anymore. Sure the Goku of the Saiyan Arc is a concerned and caring parent but, at this point, I don't see what's to be gained by pretending he still is. It isn't a question of nuance. Goku, because of his genetics, doesn't feel much attachment to his family, at least no more attachment than what he feels towards any interesting group of strangers.

Personally I would love if Goku were more of a dad and more of a "family man" but that's just fanwank. (Like Yamcha and the gang all being friends despite the amount of contempt they show him throughout the later half of the story and Super.) It's latching onto an earlier version of these characters and ignoring all new information/stories that have come out.

I’m pretty sure the reason this turned into an argument about Goku’s parental skills is because some people think that TFS played a part in influencing the “Goku is a bad dad” side of the fandom. I wouldn’t personally agree with this, but I think it actually is somewhat relevant to the discussion.

I do agree with you regarding how Toriyama already set the precedent for Goku not being much of a family man, but I don’t know if you can chalk that up to genetics, considering that Minus went out of its way to depict Bardock and Gine as loving parents who would do anything for their kids, which is a major reason why it’s kind of baffling that Toriyama wrote the thing.

[ABED]

Goku senses the death of his master. Yeah, no emotional connection there. This is before he really learns the ins and outs of ki, by the way.

Goku does seem to have a special soft spot for Roshi. One that comes up again in the ToP (iirc. There's a lot of that arc my eyes were glazed over during). But that doesn't seem to extend to the other characters and, as best I can see, just helps reestablish how important the character of Roshi is. With Dragon Ball's roots in old chinese folklore and wuxia movies it doesn't surprise me that the old master character is treated differently from the rest of the cast.

So you concede that there are people in his life, and more than just one, whom he doesn't treat as well as complete strangers.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

So you concede that there are people in his life, and more than just one, whom he doesn't treat as well as complete strangers.

Sure.

I’m pretty sure the reason this turned into an argument about Goku’s parental skills is because some people think that TFS played a part in influencing the “Goku is a bad dad” side of the fandom. I wouldn’t personally agree with this, but I think it actually is somewhat relevant to the discussion.

I do agree with you regarding how Toriyama already set the precedent for Goku not being much of a family man, but I don’t know if you can chalk that up to genetics, considering that Minus went out of its way to depict Bardock and Gine as loving parents who would do anything for their kids, which is a major reason why it’s kind of baffling that Toriyama wrote the thing.

Minus as a whole just doesn't make any sense. It contradicts what we know on a meta level about Toriyama's tastes and vision for the series. And it contradicts a bunch of shit already in the series (themes and general information we thought was from reliable sources like Raditz). So, tbh, I kinda just ignore it lol

[Michsi]

Maybe it would help if we knew exactly What Toriyama said in that interview. Was this the same interview where he said Goku saw his family more as friends?

The one I was referring to is where he states that Goku is uninterested in being a parent and the responsibilities that entails or something along those lines. I have to look it up again

[Skar]

I wouldn't call anything he's said on the Vic thread the least bit "civil", also i've seen plenty of racists act all "Civil" while still being low-key racist and sexist so civility in itself does not necessarily mean you are a good person.

Sure but you're jumping straight to calling him a racist, sexist, bigot, etc when all he's argued is that people should be treated equally and all discrimination is wrong. Nothing he said implies one race should be treated better or superior to another. It's important to remember that this is an off topic discussion on a DB forum. It's not going to change the world or probably even change anyone's opinion so they should at least remain civil when discussing differing viewpoints.

And here we go with the pissing match. Dude, one act of discrimination does not condone another in retaliation (for instance, just because the Suni population in the Iraq has been historically slaughtered by the Shiits who held power, doesn't mean when the power dynamic shifted it was ok for the Sunis to start slaughtering the Shiits in retaliation for the generations of mistreatment; or the groups are the other way around, I haven't really looked into the history of the Iraqi civil war in a few years). That's factually not how you deal with -isms of any positive or productive kind whatsoever and literally anyone who has done any actual research into the effectiveness of combating problematic or radical idealists will tell you this.

I definitely agree. I'm Palestinian American and born in the US. I'm happy to say I never faced any prejudice in the US besides a random racist remark once or twice. As a US citizen, I have equal rights to other Americans and I'm allowed to vote, buy land, run for office, etc. The same can't be said about Palestinians in other countries. In Israel and most Gulf countries, Palestinian are treated as second class citizens with fewer rights. By this logic, should a Palestinian or other minority in a first world country not complain because minorities in some other countries face more discrimination? Of course not but trying to make it a competition of who was discriminated against more won't solve anything.

[VegettoEX]

This thread's topic is: TeamFourStar's influence on Dragon Ball's revival.

[Skar]

This thread's topic is: TeamFourStar's influence on Dragon Ball's revival.

Notices his previous comment went off topic after asking someone else to stay on topic

Spoiler:

Sorry!

[Sadala Elite]

I think I can deal with a few people becoming fans through DBZA not becoming fans at all had DBZA not existed if it meant I don't have to see all these shithead annoying fanboys in every video or comment section I come across DB related. And I say this as a fan of their work, but the franchise has been big for decades, and would've continued to be so with or without Abridged. Now would DBZA be as popular were it not for DB's popularity? That's the real question

This

[Dbzfan94]

I think I can deal with a few people becoming fans through DBZA not becoming fans at all had DBZA not existed if it meant I don't have to see all these shithead annoying fanboys in every video or comment section I come across DB related. And I say this as a fan of their work, but the franchise has been big for decades, and would've continued to be so with or without Abridged. Now would DBZA be as popular were it not for DB's popularity? That's the real question

This

Agreed with this as well.

[10gigtriforce]

I think I can deal with a few people becoming fans through DBZA not becoming fans at all had DBZA not existed if it meant I don't have to see all these shithead annoying fanboys in every video or comment section I come across DB related. And I say this as a fan of their work, but the franchise has been big for decades, and would've continued to be so with or without Abridged. Now would DBZA be as popular were it not for DB's popularity? That's the real question

This

Agreed with this as well.

4th'd. They make good content but their fanbois are insufferable.

[VegettoEX]

Please try to add substance to your posts rather than rely on the quote feature to circumvent the minimum-character requirement for posts. We want to hear your own thoughts, not just regurgitations or blanket agreements.

Genuine question: where does everyone run into these fabled insufferable fanboys? My only real experience with this is inappropriate fan Q&As at conventions, which has already been mentioned, and I attribute more to social anxiety and awareness than anything, like, nefarious. I just don’t hang out anywhere else, especially online, where this is a problem. What exactly are y’all doing that you can’t seem to escape them? Genuine question; I just don’t have this problem.

(Any why would/should/could you hold this against the original group or product itself? I feel like I’ve run into similar issues with people complaining about Kanzenshuu as some vague, unknown, monolithic, hive mind entity by people who don’t know the site and don’t know what it is we do or stand for, so I’m curious from that perspective of management and “brand identity” and such.)

[Michsi]

Please try to add substance to your posts rather than rely on the quote feature to circumvent the minimum-character requirement for posts. We want to hear your own thoughts, not just regurgitations or blanket agreements.

Genuine question: where does everyone run into these fabled insufferable fanboys? My only real experience with this is inappropriate fan Q&As at conventions, which has already been mentioned, and I attribute more to social anxiety and awareness than anything, like, nefarious. I just don’t hang out anywhere else, especially online, where this is a problem. What exactly are y’all doing that you can’t seem to escape them? Genuine question; I just don’t have this problem.

(Any why would/should/could you hold this against the original group or product itself? I feel like I’ve run into similar issues with people complaining about Kanzenshuu as some vague, unknown, monolithic, hive mind entity by people who don’t know the site and don’t know what it is we do or stand for, so I’m curious from that perspective of management and “brand identity” and such.)

At one point in every DB related post on the net? Like, you'd find a random clip of Piccolo and there'd be fifteen comments in a row with nothing but "Dodge!". It's not as common anymore, but a couple of years ago you'd just see quotes like this everywhere. It was harmless mostly, but if you weren't a fan of TFS I could see why this would start grating on your nerves.

I personally don't hold it against them, but that was part of TFS influence on the fandom.

[SHINOBI-03]

Isn't this like saying the Star Wars Prequels fandom were influenced by Reddit Prequelmemes?

Star Wars Prequels were always shat on by everyone from within or outside SW fandom but now there's great love for them and if you go to any Star Wars-related video you find endless meme references and quoted lines even if it wasn't a Star Wars video but they do it anyway because it got a Star Wars actor in it, and even The Mandalorian dropped few meme acknowledgments here and there.

[10gigtriforce]

They also still haunt youtube comments, twitter, especially conventions(which I personally go to several a year) whenever a dbz panel comes up. Ian Sinclair did a panel at my favorite con last year, he had to pause and ask people to stop asking him about TFS/DBZA since he already told people they could record the panel and if his true feelings about them got online it could cost him his job. Anime clubs at universities have a similar problem, my fiance is still in college and due to the dbza fanbois in her anime club it took me until last fall to convince her to try watching db with me and that the whole fanbase isnt *that* insufferable. She still refuses to watch dbza with me because of it.

[Planetnamek]

Please try to add substance to your posts rather than rely on the quote feature to circumvent the minimum-character requirement for posts. We want to hear your own thoughts, not just regurgitations or blanket agreements.

Genuine question: where does everyone run into these fabled insufferable fanboys? My only real experience with this is inappropriate fan Q&As at conventions, which has already been mentioned, and I attribute more to social anxiety and awareness than anything, like, nefarious. I just don’t hang out anywhere else, especially online, where this is a problem. What exactly are y’all doing that you can’t seem to escape them? Genuine question; I just don’t have this problem.

(Any why would/should/could you hold this against the original group or product itself? I feel like I’ve run into similar issues with people complaining about Kanzenshuu as some vague, unknown, monolithic, hive mind entity by people who don’t know the site and don’t know what it is we do or stand for, so I’m curious from that perspective of management and “brand identity” and such.)

At one point in every DB related post on the net? Like, you'd find a random clip of Piccolo and there'd be fifteen comments in a row with nothing but "Dodge!". It's not as common anymore, but a couple of years ago you'd just see quotes like this everywhere. It was harmless mostly, but if you weren't a fan of TFS I could see why this would start grating on your nerves.

I personally don't hold it against them, but that was part of TFS influence on the fandom.

I'm with EX, I keep hearing about these mythical groups of TFS fanboys that have the wrong idea about the franchise because of DBZA, but i've yet to actually encounter a single one.

Comments like the ones you mentioned are shallow yeah, but that does not automatically mean the people posting them aren't familiar with DBZ as a whole, all that proves is they like TFS and nothing else.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Isn't this like saying the Star Wars Prequels fandom were influenced by Reddit Prequelmemes?

Star Wars Prequels were always shat on by everyone from within or outside SW fandom but now there's great love for them and if you go to any Star Wars-related video you find endless meme references and quoted lines even if it wasn't a Star Wars video but they do it anyway because it got a Star Wars actor in it, and even The Mandalorian dropped few meme acknowledgments here and there.

This is more a case of kids who grew up with the prequels/The Clone Wars having grown up and become vocal of their love from what they consider THEIR Star Wars. Plus, there’s a lot of pushback from this group at Disney SW for their seemingly hostile attitude against anything from the PT era. Only giving them meager crumbs for references at most.

EDIT: Just because you personally haven’t experienced something doesn’t make it “mythical”.

[Dbzfan94]

Please try to add substance to your posts rather than rely on the quote feature to circumvent the minimum-character requirement for posts. We want to hear your own thoughts, not just regurgitations or blanket agreements.

Genuine question: where does everyone run into these fabled insufferable fanboys? My only real experience with this is inappropriate fan Q&As at conventions, which has already been mentioned, and I attribute more to social anxiety and awareness than anything, like, nefarious. I just don’t hang out anywhere else, especially online, where this is a problem. What exactly are y’all doing that you can’t seem to escape them? Genuine question; I just don’t have this problem.

Youtube comments and other social media. But especially Youtube.