Are There Any Updates On The Harmony Gold Dub Of Dragon Ball?

[MasenkoHA]

Whoever they got to do the narrator is pretty good I must say. Weird to hear Goku being called Zero though, wonder what the deal was with that? Nice to hear that he sounds like an actual kid.

“He’s gonna be a hero what rhymes with hero? Zero!”

“Zerooooo is our heroooooo”

[eledoremassis02]

Wendy Lee is turning out to be my favorite Bulma VA. Really enjoyed Harmony Gold than I thought. Definitely, not Big Green and I like it a lot better than Blue Water and maybe even BLT, if the kept the names I think this would be pretty solid and up there with some of Streamlines decent dubs.

I guess this is an "in hindsight" post but I don't get why FUNimation would recycle scripts and just change some of the wording to sound different enough when the ultimate goal for (at least) BLT and the in-house dub (I'm assuming few even knew harmony gold existed) and the Ultimate uncut dubs were to replace the older dubs and burry them in history.

[Danfun64]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Funimation had the masters to the 5 episodes Harmony Gold dubbed they definitely had the scripts.

Didn’t Harmony Gold have 61 episodes written that Zero Y El Dragon Magico used for their dub?

60 episodes I think.

Somehow I doubt Funi used the exact same masters, unless Funi received the uncut masters that the HG dub was made from. There are occasions where, thanks to digital edits, Funi was able to restore some scenes in the BLT dub that were cut in the HG dub (for example the entire scene where Goku takes of his clothes and fishes with his tail).

[KBABZ]

I don't get why FUNimation would recycle scripts

Easy, cost. Gen Fukanaga did NOT want to spend any more money than he had to in dubbing the original Dragon Ball, hence the recycling of the script. Had some benefits though: it meant they didn't bother doing a replacement score!

[MasenkoHA]

I don't get why FUNimation would recycle scripts

Easy, cost. Gen Fukanaga did NOT want to spend any more money than he had to in dubbing the original Dragon Ball, hence the recycling of the script. Had some benefits though: it meant they didn't bother doing a replacement score!

For the first thirteen episodes that were redubbed in 2001 from 1995 sure. They had already written scripts 6 years ago and Dragon Ball Z was the main focus. It was just easier to have John Burgmeier to go through those scripts and make some adjustments to fit the uncut visuals and fix a few small things. Heck, some of the dialog changes seem to be ad libs as they’re nearly the same but not exactly the same in places (ex pterodactyl in 1995:” Stop being such a downer kid, I’m in a mood for a happy meal.” Pterodactyl in 2001: “Stop being such a downer baby, I’m in a mood for a happy meal”)

But in 1995 Dragon Ball was the only Dragon Ball project they were working on and they even went through the trouble of replacement music and a custom op and ed. It just seems weird how much the writers appeared to recycle from the Harmony Gold script. It’s not as recycled as the 2001 scripts (which still have some dialog from Harmony Gold!) were to the 1995 scripts but it was interesting to see things like Goku’s out of character “I don’t like to hurt anybody but he gave me no choice” line originated from Harmony Gold.

Or that “Totally Radical line” acceptable in 1989 maybe. In 1995? Hmmm kind of dated and out of touch. In 2001? Pffft Okay, boomer.

[KBABZ]

I don't get why FUNimation would recycle scripts

Easy, cost. Gen Fukanaga did NOT want to spend any more money than he had to in dubbing the original Dragon Ball, hence the recycling of the script. Had some benefits though: it meant they didn't bother doing a replacement score!

For the first thirteen episodes that were redubbed in 2001 from 1995 sure. They had already written scripts 6 years ago and Dragon Ball Z was the main focus. It was just easier to have John Burgmeier to go through those scripts and make some adjustments to fit the uncut visuals and fix a few small things. Heck, some of the dialog changes seem to be ad libs as they’re nearly the same but not exactly the same in places (ex pterodactyl in 1995:” Stop being such a downer kid, I’m in a mood for a happy meal.” Pterodactyl in 2001: “Stop being such a downer baby, I’m in a mood for a happy meal”)

But in 1995 Dragon Ball was the only Dragon Ball project they were working on and they even went through the trouble of replacement music and a custom op and ed. It just seems weird how much the writers appeared to recycle from the Harmony Gold script. It’s not as recycled as the 2001 scripts (which still have some dialog from Harmony Gold!) were to the 1995 scripts but it was interesting to see things like Goku’s out of character “I don’t like to hurt anybody but he gave me no choice” line originated from Harmony Gold.

Or that “Totally Radical line” acceptable in 1989 maybe. In 1995? Hmmm kind of dated and out of touch. In 2001? Pffft Okay, boomer.

I think it's a mix of "Okay we wanna put money into it so that it can appeal to our intended audience" but also "Okay Toei's translated scripts are crap so let's use the ones from six years ago to give us a baseline". When that flopped, the revisit was more about spending as little money as possible because they felt it wasn't going to be a guaranteed success like Z already was.

I actually like Goku's line at the end of the episode because it's in-character and pretty much sums up Goku's character. He says "I don't like to hurt anybody" in a punishment sense; he wasn't fighting the Pterodactyl in a sparring fight or an official match, he was a bad guy and the only way to rescue Bulma was to hurt him because of his own evil actions. It's sort of a much less extreme version of the situation Frieza puts him in much later: Goku REALLY didn't want to have to kill Frieza, but he threw away his chance (AGAIN!) and forced Goku to kill him, which Goku really didn't want to do.

[Robo4900]

Didn’t Harmony Gold have 61 episodes written that Zero Y El Dragon Magico used for their dub?

60 episodes I think.

60 that we know of. It's possible Harmony Gold scripted even more than that, or that the Spanish one started using their own, original scripts at some point later on. We simply don't know.

Spoiler:

Easy, cost. Gen Fukanaga did NOT want to spend any more money than he had to in dubbing the original Dragon Ball, hence the recycling of the script. Had some benefits though: it meant they didn't bother doing a replacement score!

For the first thirteen episodes that were redubbed in 2001 from 1995 sure. They had already written scripts 6 years ago and Dragon Ball Z was the main focus. It was just easier to have John Burgmeier to go through those scripts and make some adjustments to fit the uncut visuals and fix a few small things. Heck, some of the dialog changes seem to be ad libs as they’re nearly the same but not exactly the same in places (ex pterodactyl in 1995:” Stop being such a downer kid, I’m in a mood for a happy meal.” Pterodactyl in 2001: “Stop being such a downer baby, I’m in a mood for a happy meal”)

But in 1995 Dragon Ball was the only Dragon Ball project they were working on and they even went through the trouble of replacement music and a custom op and ed. It just seems weird how much the writers appeared to recycle from the Harmony Gold script. It’s not as recycled as the 2001 scripts (which still have some dialog from Harmony Gold!) were to the 1995 scripts but it was interesting to see things like Goku’s out of character “I don’t like to hurt anybody but he gave me no choice” line originated from Harmony Gold.

Or that “Totally Radical line” acceptable in 1989 maybe. In 1995? Hmmm kind of dated and out of touch. In 2001? Pffft Okay, boomer.

I think it's a mix of "Okay we wanna put money into it so that it can appeal to our intended audience" but also "Okay Toei's translated scripts are crap so let's use the ones from six years ago to give us a baseline". When that flopped, the revisit was more about spending as little money as possible because they felt it wasn't going to be a guaranteed success like Z already was.

Funimation didn't use Toei's translated scripts on OG DB, they had Clyde Mandelin produce original translations for them to work off of (Mandelin notes this on his website). Similarly, while Funi's Z used Toei's shitty translations as a base at one point ("season 3", for sure), later on, they were using Steve Simmons' translations.

So, if Funi had wanted to, they could have thrown out the old scripts, and worked entirely off their Mandelin & Simmons translations, and produced scripts of a similar accuracy level to Pioneer Z for OG DB, as well as GT, a sizeable portion of Z (including Ultimate Uncut), and most of the movies. Instead, they saved money by working mostly off of existing, already-mouth-flap-fitting-and-adapted scripts, and whenever they had to work off of proper translations, they screwed it up to fit Barry Watson's ridiculous vision of the show.

So... More like, it's a combination of "We want to spend as little as possible on this" and "while they're edited, we do have old scripts lying around still that we can work off of" with a strong dose of, in their view, "but we want the show to be hip with them kids so we need to make constant changes to improve the show"

[KBABZ]

I made a bunch of notes while watching this episode, figured I'd put them here!

Spoiler:

- Huh, this narrator sounds a lot like the 2001 narrator! Guess some things never change, like Funi hiring sound-a-likes.
- I am fairly sure that the title card font is a squashed version of a font used for an actual manga logo!
- This narrator leans more towards "1940s wartime propoganda guy" than "warm storybook father" from 2001.
- I like some of the old dialogue and sometimes I dislike it. For example, I don't like the "you're always in my heart" line, but I like Goku saying "Talk to you later!" as he leaves.
- Was Goku forgetting where the river was in the Japanese script? While clunky, I prefer Goku deciding on fish because it doesn't make sense for him to not remember where the river was considering he'd know the lay of the land by now.
- That's the most feeble-sounding saber-tooth I've heard in my entire life
- Wow they jumped RIGHT past the fishing scene! Strangely it works pretty well!
- Interesting, in this dub Goku thinks Bulma is part of the car more directly
- They cut out Bulma shooting Goku pretty well too! I didn't even notice!
- Bulma sounds WAY too similar to Goku, it's kinda confusing
- They also slyly cut out Goku lifting up Bulma's skirt! This is useful, I don't think I quite managed it in T1C (the skit lift wasn't in the manga)
- Goku wonders how Bulma caught the "monster", and is unconvinced, thinking it's a demon.
- Goku doesn't mention he was trained by Gohan, he instead says "Powerful is more like it!". Kinda ego-filled
- He also indicates that he knows what a bustling city is.
- I'm not entirely sure how much the "Oh I thought you wanted ME to cook that big fish" works, but it at least uses elements from the scene and Goku's own personal history, so you can tell the writers had a really good stab at making that scene work in a PG context.
- Leena works even less than Bulma as a funny name, and Bulma kinda awkwardly asks unprovoked, which also works even less.
- It looks like the single ad-break eyecatch is a shot from DBM2, the one they didn't dub!

- Goku is worried that Bulma will "break" his Grandpa. Again, interesting given we still don't know how durable Dragon Balls are.
- Okay now we have a THIRD origin story for Bulma and her DBs. She found one in her attic but didn't know what it was, so she asked a lot of questions around town. Eventually a man at an antiques store said it was magic. It doesn't... quite work?
- "With this ball I shall dominate the solar system!" Say hi to King Piccolo for me?
- Pilaf sounds a lot raspier and less goofy here... and yet when he gets in a comedic spot his voice still totally fits the situation
- Oculi is a weird name for Pilaf, not gonna lie.
- Mai sounds more like a witch this time.
- Shenlong is called the Dragon God, huh.
- Oh cool! Pilaf laughs, and as is cross-fades to Goku, Goku comes in laughing! That's such a cool transition!
- Bulma mentions the "some guy became a king" thing. In the Funi dub, this isn't mentioned until Goku explains the Dragon Balls to Suno much, much later.
- Aw, I love this Goku's happy "And my grandpa's has four stars in it!" delivery
- Bulma doesn't mention strawberries.
- As expected, the dirty old fanny scene is cut. Bulma still gets a sly look, but it jumps past. "Well, be that way! Keep your Dragon Ball! You know why? Because I have an idea!" -cut- "I've got an idea! We'll be partners and we'll find the rest of them together!". It doesn't quite work given that she says "I have an idea!" twice.
- Bulma says that Goku will see the world around him to make his grandpa proud, rather than using the promise of training. While the training makes more sense for Goku personally, the wide world I think is better because it's thematically closer to what Dragon Ball is about at this point. Plus, you could argue that Goku never discovered his true calling until he saw Master Roshi perform the Kamehameha, which wouldn't have happened if he didn't leave home.
- Bulma's sly thought moment, "Maybe he'll let me borrow his Dragon Ball when it's time to make my wish!", makes her less of a jerk.
- Bulma now has some dialogue where she explains what the dots mean on the Dragon Radar (er I mean, Bleeper). I actually like this addition because it means that Goku now knows exactly how it works when he uses the Radar for the Red Ribbon arc!
- "Let's see, eclipsal capsule number nine will do the trick!". I think she was meant to say "ellipsal" there
- a-ha! Neat change! Bulma says "There, just like magic!", which gives Goku a reason to start calling Bulma a witch!
- "You're such a country bumpkin!" Harmony Gold called Goku a bumpkin before it was cool.
- Huh! Goku says "Wow, we went so high I thought this thing had grown wings or something!" Again another clever addition that serves as a foundation for a later scene!
- Bulma says "Don't the words pit stop mean anything to you?!" despite not mentioning it earlier in this dub.
- The Pterosaur sounds like the Funi one without a "deep monster" voice filter, haha
- "I'd help her but I'm a little tied up!" Eh, not as funny as Goku's austistic "Gee, I think he was lying!" from the Funi version.
- "Hope I can make this work I'm almost too small to reach the pedals". Sort of a demonstration of one of this dub's problems: it sometimes tries to squeeze in too many words for the space a character speaks, so the delivery of several lines don't feel natural as a result.
- "Magic power!" Okay even Funimation came up with a better phrase for the Nyoi-bo there.
- It's neat, by the end of the episode you still get that warm comradere that Goku has with Bulma that I feel at the same point in the Funi dub. Didn't expect that!

[MasenkoHA]

I made a bunch of notes while watching this episode, figured I'd put them here!



- Huh, this narrator sounds a lot like the 2001 narrator! Guess some things never change, like Funi hiring sound-a-likes.

I noticed that too, although I must say I prefer Brice Armstrong.

- Wow they jumped RIGHT past the fishing scene! Strangely it works pretty well!

Better than those cheap looking paint on white underwear the edited Funi dubs use.

I wonder if they skipped right past the Oolong tries to escape as a fish scene in episode 5 as well?

- They also slyly cut out Goku lifting up Bulma's skirt! This is useful, I don't think I quite managed it in T1C (the skit lift wasn't in the manga)

For some reason I want to say the edited for Toonami version of the 2001 also removed the scene. I think only the 1995 dub kept it (and just painted them solid pink)

- Goku doesn't mention he was trained by Gohan, he instead says "Powerful is more like it!". Kinda ego-filled
-

He also indicates that he knows what a bustling city is.
-

Yeah I really didn’t like what Harmony Gold did to Goku/Zero. He’s too full of himself and seems too aware like they forgot he was a naive country bumpkin that lived away from civilization for the first 12 years of his life.

I'm not entirely sure how much the "Oh I thought you wanted ME to cook that big fish" works, but it at least uses elements from the scene and Goku's own personal history, so you can tell the writers had a really good stab at making that scene work in a PG context.

Until they would have gotten to the episode where we found out Lena/Bulma is stinking rich and almost certainly never had to cook in her life. I don’t know what’s wrong with “no funny business/if you think we’re going to anything improper” I guess since this Goku is more aware of things like being attractive to girls or whatever he probably would.

-

Leena works even less than Bulma as a funny name, and Bulma kinda awkwardly asks unprovoked, which also works even less.

Yeah it’s a normal, if not super common, name. I guess Bulma is the name of her favorite clothing brand in this dub?

- Shenlong is called the Dragon God, huh.

AFAIK Shen Long means Dragon God so no problems there.

- Bulma doesn't mention strawberries.

I think Path to Power is the first time any of the English dubs mentions it. And only because there’s a drawing of a strawberry next to her.

- "I'd help her but I'm a little tied up!" Eh, not as funny as Goku's austistic "Gee, I think he was lying!" from the Funi version.

Also given how easily he untied himself and was originally more confused as to what the heck was going on it’s just a really stupid line change. Him knowing the pterodactyl was bad from the start just ruins the joke.

[KBABZ]

I wonder if they skipped right past the Oolong tries to escape as a fish scene in episode 5 as well?

What, and skip that Fishful of Dollars pun?

Until they would have gotten to the episode where we found out Lena/Bulma is stinking rich and almost certainly never had to cook in her life. I don’t know what’s wrong with “no funny business/if you think we’re going to anything improper” I guess since this Goku is more aware of things like being attractive to girls or whatever he probably would.

I think it works on the basis that Bulma knows how much of a faff cooking would be for her without any aid (something I can relate to, haha). She must be able to cook on some level though given her travels before meeting Goku, as well as the fact that she'd have a kitchen in the capsule house. It's also possible that the prospect of having to cook and prepare a giant fish is kinda intimidating for her.

[eledoremassis02]

Here is a clip of "Zero" from the BLT dub that was on the Bluray special features
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJ44hj ... e=youtu.be

[DrBriefsCat]

- They also slyly cut out Goku lifting up Bulma's skirt! This is useful, I don't think I quite managed it in T1C (the skit lift wasn't in the manga)

For some reason I want to say the edited for Toonami version of the 2001 also removed the scene. I think only the 1995 dub kept it (and just painted them solid pink)

Actually, it was kept mostly intact on the Toonami airing in 2001. Funimation only cut the frames of Bulma's underwear being exposed. It went from Goku lifting the skirt to Bulma turning around. A boing sound effect was also added.

[Tom_Servo]

Another update!

One of my sources digitized his HG tape of the movie dub, and the narration is intact in good condition! The narration can be watched at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-5I4o3ZShU. Enjoy!

[eledoremassis02]

Another update!

One of my sources digitized his HG tape of the movie dub, and the narration is intact in good condition! The narration can be watched at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-5I4o3ZShU. Enjoy!

Awesome! Really appreciate you sharing these! With some slight clean up these can these movies can be archived in great quality!

[Planetnamek]

Just got done reading through that mammoth 40 page thread about HG's dub and the DBZ broadcast audio, what a fascinating read:viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18927&hilit=harmony&start=780

Genuinely impressed at seeing people like Derek Padula go above and beyond to try and figure out what the deal was with the HG dub and the original broadcast audio. Speaking of which i'm curious as to whether Derek ever found out what happened with that HG tape that was in their vaults? I'm very curious as to what was on it and whether Funimation or Toei has it.

I remember a similar search happening for the pilot for Saban's infamous aborted attempt at creating their own live-action/animated version of Sailor Moon, the only thing of that that's ever turned up is a fan-recording of the opening theme at some Anime event:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9diob_eSJ8. There was an exhaustive search to find the tape of the pilot(the company that animated the pilot, Toonmakers is apparently still active and they do have the pilot, but it's only available as part of a demonstration video that's only shown to animators or something like that)that ultimately didn't turn it up, the tape they thought would've had the pilot had something else incredibly obscure on it.

[Hellspawn28]

I think if Harmony Gold's dub did kick off and became popular, I feel like today's fandom would be very different. The dub vs. sub wars would be like "Stop calling him Goku. His name is Zero!!!". It's also possible that Harmony Gold would never allow the series to get any subtitle release and would probably be sitting on the IP like they are with Marcoss.

[Planetnamek]

I think if Harmony Gold's dub did kick off and became popular, I feel like today's fandom would be very different. The dub vs. sub wars would be like "Stop calling him Goku. His name is Zero!!!". It's also possible that Harmony Gold would never allow the series to get any subtitle release and would probably be sitting on the IP like they are with Marcoss.

Yeah I just saw that Youtube video about the situation with HG and Macross, really unfortunate and sad stuff.

Part of me wonders how different Sailor Moon fandom would be if that Toonmakers show had actually come out and been succesful.

[MasenkoHA]

Part of me wonders how different Sailor Moon fandom would be if that Toonmakers show had actually come out and been succesful.

Probably like Power Rangers vs Super Sentai. You got fans who like both or only like one or the other.




Ironically, I feel like if Harmony Gold had been the prevailing Dragon Ball dub more fans would have jumped ship to the Japanese version because Harmony Gold would have only done an edited dub so there would be more of an incentive to watch the Japanese version to see what was left out. Since Funimation has made uncut an option since 2000(?) a lot of fans don’t feel like they’re missing anything.

Of course there would still be fans of the heavily edited and censored Harmony Gold dub.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I think if Harmony Gold's dub did kick off and became popular, I feel like today's fandom would be very different. The dub vs. sub wars would be like "Stop calling him Goku. His name is Zero!!!". It's also possible that Harmony Gold would never allow the series to get any subtitle release and would probably be sitting on the IP like they are with Marcoss.

Yeah I just saw that Youtube video about the situation with HG and Macross, really unfortunate and sad stuff.

Part of me wonders how different Sailor Moon fandom would be if that Toonmakers show had actually come out and been succesful.

If that Toonmakers Americanized version of Sailor Moon from '93/'94 had been released on TV and somehow caught on, i don't know if the original SM anime would've eventually come out over here of if the franchise would have nearly as much presence had it failed in ratings or something. Of course, it ultimately ended up being passed on so the anime proper subsequently got picked up and dubbed by DiC for distribution in mid 1995 (also around the same time FUNi did the syndicated run of DB episodes 1-13) and the rest is history from there. Still though, one has to wonder how different Dragon Ball would be if HG's dub had actually panned out back in '89. In a way, the BS crap that has happened regarding their continuous sitting on and copyright trolling of the Macross/Robotech license and endless extensions to continue on with said squandering makes me glad that FUNimation were the ones to ultimately get a hold of it in spite of the questionable things they've done over the years in terms of localizing the series.

Speaking of which, i have no clue how Harmony Gold is even still an operational entity at this point because i had thought they went under years ago but it seems apparently to not be the case.

[Metalwario64]

As much as I hate FUNimation, HG still having the license would probably mean no uncut Japanese version on home release in North America, ever, and even further changed dub names would be prevalent today.

"Who's Son Goku?

"The Japanese name for Zero!"

"You call him Goku? You're such a weeb. Zero is American and Badass sounding!".

I certainly don't want to live in that timeline.