Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

[ABED]

You first. You made the assertion. I'll give you my opinion after you explain yours. Besides, I've already given you a reason in a previous post, probably my first response to you.

Definition of Sci-Fi per Wikipedia: "Science fiction (sometimes called sci-fi or just SF) is a genre of speculative fiction that typically deals with imaginative and futuristic concepts such as advanced science and technology, space exploration, time travel, parallel universes, and extraterrestrial life."

Parallel universes; space explorations; aliens; time travel.... what does that sound like? Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z?

The fighting in DBZ is more energy/strength based than pure martial arts. It'd be like saying Indiana Jones is a martial arts movie because he throws punches.

So having a martial arts theme doesn't fit when SSJ Goku is fighting Furiza or Gohan vs. Cell's Kamehameha.

There's nothing speculative about DBZ. Toriyama doesn't delve into those concepts at all or use them beyond finding some new location for enemies to come from after Goku had defeated the strongest being in existence to that point.

energy and strength aren't part of martial arts?

The Kamehameha ARE martial arts.

[McDonaldsGuy]

Also y’all totally falling for the OP topic bait. I really wish that person would come back and contribute. Much insight. So valuable.

Jord does it all the time and you never complain... You actually get at the users who point out his threads just bring up identity politics and divide us.

I need you to explain how it's a primarily martial arts series.

I mean they fight in just about every damn episode of the show, so I'm pretty sure it counts as a martial arts series.

Not to mention the ki blasts are depicted as a part of these martial arts that you have to LEARN and train to use.

What school of martial arts was Furiza or Cell or Buu or Vegeta from?

[ABED]

Jord does it all the time and you never complain... You actually get at the users who point out his threads just bring up identity politics and divide us.



I mean they fight in just about every damn episode of the show, so I'm pretty sure it counts as a martial arts series.

Not to mention the ki blasts are depicted as a part of these martial arts that you have to LEARN and train to use.

What school of martial arts was Furiza or Cell or Buu or Vegeta from?

I wasn't aware that's a necessary qualification. Piccolo isn't from a school of martial arts either, but he does use martial arts. He uses martial arts, his mentality is that of a martial artist.

[McDonaldsGuy]

I wasn't aware that's a necessary qualification. Piccolo isn't from a school of martial arts either, but he does use martial arts

Indiana Jones uses martial arts too.

And martial arts plays a huge part in the Piccolo saga - he kills all the top martial artists (who can learn the demon containment wave). So even then, it's still martial arts based. The entire Piccolo saga ends in a martial arts tournament for example.

In DBZ, martial arts is not the primary goal. Heck, to get more powerful in DBZ, it's usually through some transformation or fusion. Martial arts takes a back seat.

[ABED]

The difference is that the quests are the point of Indiana Jones. The fights ARE the point of DB.

In DBZ, martial arts is not the primary goal. Heck, to get more powerful in DBZ, it's usually through some transformation or fusion. Martial arts takes a back seat.

What do you consider martial arts, and why don't ki blasts qualify? Martial arts are absolutely the primary goal. Hell, for all the talk of time travel in the Cell arc, it eventually ends in a martial arts tournament.

The 23rd TB has the elements you don't consider martial arts.

[Planetnamek]

Also y’all totally falling for the OP topic bait. I really wish that person would come back and contribute. Much insight. So valuable.

Jord does it all the time and you never complain... You actually get at the users who point out his threads just bring up identity politics and divide us.

I need you to explain how it's a primarily martial arts series.

I mean they fight in just about every damn episode of the show, so I'm pretty sure it counts as a martial arts series.

Oh great now we're unironically using stupid terms like "identity politics"

I think this thread has definitely run it's course at this point.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Spoiler:

Not to mention the ki blasts are depicted as a part of these martial arts that you have to LEARN and train to use.

What school of martial arts was Furiza or Cell or Buu or Vegeta from?

I wasn't aware that's a necessary qualification. Piccolo isn't from a school of martial arts either, but he does use martial arts. He uses martial arts, his mentality is that of a martial artist.

Adding to this, even if we accept that Freeza or Boo aren’t martial artists, Vegeta and Cell objectively are. Even discounting them, our heroes from Earth definitely are!

[10gigtriforce]

Spoiler:

What school of martial arts was Furiza or Cell or Buu or Vegeta from?

I wasn't aware that's a necessary qualification. Piccolo isn't from a school of martial arts either, but he does use martial arts. He uses martial arts, his mentality is that of a martial artist.

Adding to this, even if we accept that Freeza or Boo aren’t martial artists, Vegeta and Cell objectively are. Even discounting them, our heroes from Earth definitely are!

Frieza also trained like a martial artist in the final Z movie. which regardless of quality he did it. Boo also 'trains' with hercule, and copied goku's moves, and gained knowledge from eating the kai.

[McDonaldsGuy]

What do you consider martial arts, and why don't ki blasts qualify? Martial arts are absolutely the primary goal. Hell, for all the talk of time travel in the Cell arc, it eventually ends in a martial arts tournament.

Martial arts are specific - meaning you learn them from a school. For example: the Roshi or Crane school teaching Goku and Tenshinhan respectively.

In DBZ, it's more about getting stronger, not more skilled. Martial arts isn't necessarily about strength for example. In DBZ, to beat your opponent, you have to be significantly stronger (thus, power levels). For example: even though the Cell Game is a tournament, Cell decides the testing of skill is a waste of time and blows up the ring. Then the entire fight is about strength. Gohan doesn't beat Cell because of his martial arts skills, he beats Cell because he goes SSJ2 and uses a huge Kamehameha blast.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Spoiler:

I wasn't aware that's a necessary qualification. Piccolo isn't from a school of martial arts either, but he does use martial arts. He uses martial arts, his mentality is that of a martial artist.

Adding to this, even if we accept that Freeza or Boo aren’t martial artists, Vegeta and Cell objectively are. Even discounting them, our heroes from Earth definitely are!

Frieza also trained like a martial artist in the final Z movie. which regardless of quality he did it. Boo also 'trains' with hercule, and copied goku's moves, and gained knowledge from eating the kai.

You’re right. I forgot about Boo and was mainly counting the main series in this context.

[10gigtriforce]

What do you consider martial arts, and why don't ki blasts qualify? Martial arts are absolutely the primary goal. Hell, for all the talk of time travel in the Cell arc, it eventually ends in a martial arts tournament.

Martial arts are specific - meaning you learn them from a school. For example: the Roshi or Crane school teaching Goku and Tenshinhan respectively.

In DBZ, it's more about getting stronger, not more skilled. Martial arts isn't necessarily about strength for example. In DBZ, to beat your opponent, you have to be significantly stronger (thus, power levels). For example: even though the Cell Game is a tournament, Cell decides the testing of skill is a waste of time and blows up the ring. Then the entire fight is about strength. Gohan doesn't beat Cell because of his martial arts skills, he beats Cell because he goes SSJ2 and uses a huge Kamehameha blast.

goku trains with king kai, the yardrats. he and piccolo train gohan, Multiple times. passing down the turtle and demon knowledge to him chichi and gohan train goten. vegeta trains trunks, gohan trains trunks. roshi supposedly may help train krillin.

[McDonaldsGuy]

What do you consider martial arts, and why don't ki blasts qualify? Martial arts are absolutely the primary goal. Hell, for all the talk of time travel in the Cell arc, it eventually ends in a martial arts tournament.

Martial arts are specific - meaning you learn them from a school. For example: the Roshi or Crane school teaching Goku and Tenshinhan respectively.

In DBZ, it's more about getting stronger, not more skilled. Martial arts isn't necessarily about strength for example. In DBZ, to beat your opponent, you have to be significantly stronger (thus, power levels). For example: even though the Cell Game is a tournament, Cell decides the testing of skill is a waste of time and blows up the ring. Then the entire fight is about strength. Gohan doesn't beat Cell because of his martial arts skills, he beats Cell because he goes SSJ2 and uses a huge Kamehameha blast.

goku trains with king kai, the yardrats. he and piccolo train gohan, Multiple times. passing down the turtle and demon knowledge to him chichi and gohan train goten. vegeta trains trunks, gohan trains trunks. roshi supposedly may help train krillin.

When Goku trains with King Kai, he learns the Spirit bomb and Kaio-Ken. Power ups (or in the SB's case, stealing power lol). When Goku learns from the Yadrats, it's about instantaneous movement. In DBZ, it's more power based and strength based. Hell, when Vegeta wants to get strong enough to beat Furiza he asks Krillin to shoot him in the stomach.

In Dragon Ball, the training is about getting better at martial arts in order to fight at tournaments/test skill. In DBZ, you get stronger to destroy your enemy. That's the major difference. DBZ has martial arts, but that is not its main genre.

This is why I think Faulconer's action packed OST works better with Dragon Ball than a martial arts/adventure based theme.

[ABED]

What do you consider martial arts, and why don't ki blasts qualify? Martial arts are absolutely the primary goal. Hell, for all the talk of time travel in the Cell arc, it eventually ends in a martial arts tournament.

Martial arts are specific - meaning you learn them from a school. For example: the Roshi or Crane school teaching Goku and Tenshinhan respectively.

In DBZ, it's more about getting stronger, not more skilled. Martial arts isn't necessarily about strength for example. In DBZ, to beat your opponent, you have to be significantly stronger (thus, power levels). For example: even though the Cell Game is a tournament, Cell decides the testing of skill is a waste of time and blows up the ring. Then the entire fight is about strength. Gohan doesn't beat Cell because of his martial arts skills, he beats Cell because he goes SSJ2 and uses a huge Kamehameha blast.

That is NOT a qualification for martial arts. Vegeta uses the exact same sorts of attacks and methods and technique uses, yet that's not martial arts because as far as we know, he didn't learn them at a school.

DB is also about getting stronger. Being strong is a skill set. But while we're on that track, in DBZ, Goku and Vegeta and Cell realize that the power up of the bulky Beyond Super Saiyan form isn't worth the trade off in speed.

The Kamehameha IS martial arts. Is it not to your mind simply because they are energy blasts? The Genki Dama is martial arts as well.

You keep digging the hole deeper.

Using the definition of Martial arts from wikipedia "Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practiced for a number of reasons such as self-defense; military and law enforcement applications; competition; physical, mental and spiritual development; and entertainment or the preservation of a nation's intangible cultural heritage." I'd say DBZ's fighting absolutely qualifies.

[10gigtriforce]

In Dragon Ball, the training is about getting better at martial arts in order to fight at tournaments/test skill. In DBZ, you get stronger to destroy your enemy. That's the major difference. DBZ has martial arts, but that is not its main genre.

This is why I think Faulconer's action packed OST works better with Dragon Ball than a martial arts/adventure based theme.

Tao, and both piccolo arcs say otherwise. goku trained destroy them not just win a title.


dont get me wrong i like the faulconer and friends score but yeah..... the hole deepens my dude

[McDonaldsGuy]

What do you consider martial arts, and why don't ki blasts qualify? Martial arts are absolutely the primary goal. Hell, for all the talk of time travel in the Cell arc, it eventually ends in a martial arts tournament.

Martial arts are specific - meaning you learn them from a school. For example: the Roshi or Crane school teaching Goku and Tenshinhan respectively.

In DBZ, it's more about getting stronger, not more skilled. Martial arts isn't necessarily about strength for example. In DBZ, to beat your opponent, you have to be significantly stronger (thus, power levels). For example: even though the Cell Game is a tournament, Cell decides the testing of skill is a waste of time and blows up the ring. Then the entire fight is about strength. Gohan doesn't beat Cell because of his martial arts skills, he beats Cell because he goes SSJ2 and uses a huge Kamehameha blast.

That is NOT a qualification for martial arts. Vegeta uses the exact same sorts of attacks and methods and technique uses, yet that's not martial arts because as far as we know, he didn't learn them at a school.

DB is also about getting stronger. Being strong is a skill set. But while we're on that track, in DBZ, Goku and Vegeta and Cell realize that the power up of the bulky Beyond Super Saiyan form isn't worth the trade off in speed.

The Kamehameha IS martial arts. Is it not to your mind simply because they are energy blasts? The Genki Dama is martial arts as well.

You keep digging the hole deeper.

Using the definition of Martial arts from wikipedia "Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practiced for a number of reasons such as self-defense; military and law enforcement applications; competition; physical, mental and spiritual development; and entertainment or the preservation of a nation's intangible cultural heritage." I'd say DBZ's fighting absolutely qualifies.

The fighting in DBZ is less martial arts and more all-out-brawls. You can't tell me Jackie Chun and Goku's fight is similar to Cell and Vegeta's lmao.

[ABED]

The fighting in DBZ is less martial arts and more all-out-brawls. You can't tell me Jackie Chun and Goku's fight is similar to Cell and Vegeta's lmao.

Why, because they use ki blasts? They aren't exactly the same, but that's the point. Goku is progressing in his skills.

[MasenkoHA]

Because I don’t fill like quoting a bunch of different post

Dragon Ball Z (which again is still Dragon Ball as the Z is anime exclusive no different than Sailor Moon R/S/SuperS/Sailor Stars) is a martial arts series

Goku, a martial artist who was last seen winning a martial arts tournament, takes his son to see his old martial arts teacher where his old sparring partner is. His oldest friend Bulma is surprised that Goku’s son has no interest in being a martial artist and the characters are bewildered that Chi Chi wants Gohan to be a scholar and not a martial artist.

Piccolo, the dude who placed second at the aforementioned tournament, kidnaps Gohan to teach him to use his ki (a concept linked to martial arts that martial artist can use in this universe) to fight the invading aliens.


Meanwhile martial artist go to God’s lookout to have train them to master their ki to also fight these aliens.


That’s just the first arc of Z.

And then there’s Cell hosting his own send up of the martial arts tournament. The real kick off of the Boo arc is the martial arts tournament. The story ends with Goku meeting a young martial artist that is a reincarnation of an evil pink demon to train him to be a better martial artist so he can have a great fight that he’s been seeking.

The story from beginning to end revolves around a young martial artist leaving him home in the mountains to see the world and become stronger as a martial artist.

It’s. A. Martial. Arts. Story. It’s in the very DNA of the series. The mere fact that the main character is revealed to be an alien or that the villains are now aliens doesn’t make it any less of a martial arts story than the very third arc of the manga having Goku fight a paramilitary that uses androids, mechas, cyborgs, an alien (Buyon), a psychic (all sci fi concepts by the way)

And there’s plenty of non sci-fi elements in Z too.

[McDonaldsGuy]

In Dragon Ball, the training is about getting better at martial arts in order to fight at tournaments/test skill. In DBZ, you get stronger to destroy your enemy. That's the major difference. DBZ has martial arts, but that is not its main genre.

This is why I think Faulconer's action packed OST works better with Dragon Ball than a martial arts/adventure based theme.

Tao, and both piccolo arcs say otherwise. goku trained destroy them not just win a title.


dont get me wrong i like the faulconer and friends score but yeah..... the hole deepens my dude

The Piccolo saga ends in a martial arts tournament. In Dragon Ball, the fighting is more skilled base - sweeps, counters, strategy, etc. etc.

in DBZ, it's all about power and brawling. That's why martial arts music works when Goku fights Tenshinhan, but not when Goku fights Furiza.

[McDonaldsGuy]

Because I don’t fill like quoting a bunch of different post

Dragon Ball Z (which again is still Dragon Ball as the Z is anime exclusive no different than Sailor Moon R/S/SuperS/Sailor Stars) is a martial arts series

Goku, a martial artist who was last seen winning a martial arts tournament, takes his son to see his old martial arts teacher where his old sparring partner is. His oldest friend Bulma is surprised that Goku’s son has no interest in being a martial artist and the characters are bewildered that Chi Chi wants Gohan to be a scholar and not a martial artist.

Piccolo, the dude who placed second at the aforementioned tournament, kidnaps Gohan to teach him to use his ki (a concept linked to martial arts that martial artist can use in this universe) to fight the invading aliens.


Meanwhile martial artist go to God’s lookout to have train them to master their ki to also fight these aliens.


That’s just the first arc of Z.

And then there’s Cell hosting his own send up of the martial arts tournament. The real kick off of the Boo arc is the martial arts tournament. The story ends with Goku meeting a young martial artist that is a reincarnation of an evil pink demon to train him to be a better martial artist so he can have a great fight that he’s been seeking.

The story from beginning to end revolves around a young martial artist leaving him home in the mountains to see the world and become stronger as a martial artist.

It’s. A. Martial. Arts. Story. It’s in the very DNA of the series. The mere fact that the main character is revealed to be an alien or that the villains are now aliens doesn’t make it any less of a martial arts story than the very third arc of the manga having Goku fight a paramilitary that uses androids, mechas, cyborgs, an alien (Buyon), a psychic (all sci fi concepts by the way)

And there’s plenty of non sci-fi elements in Z too.

In DBZ, martial arts is replaced primarily by power ups (Kaio-Ken, SSJ, fusions) and power levels.

In DB, Goku trained in martial arts for the sake of learning skill (such as to win tournaments). in DBZ, they train because of an imminent Saiyan invasion. It was to raise their power levels.

[ABED]

The Piccolo saga ends in a martial arts tournament. In Dragon Ball, the fighting is more skilled base - sweeps, counters, strategy, etc. etc.

in DBZ, it's all about power and brawling. That's why martial arts music works when Goku fights Tenshinhan, but not when Goku fights Furiza.

DBZ also has strategy, there are counters and techniques. When Goku is fighting Freeza he gets Freeza to cut himself in half by dodging his techniques then obscuring his vision. In the Cell arc, Goku fights Cell so Gohan can observe the way Cell fights.

Goku and Vegeta's whole mentality are those of martial artists.

In DBZ, martial arts is replaced primarily by power ups (Kaio-Ken, SSJ, fusions) and power levels.

In DB, Goku defeats his enemies by being stronger and better than they are with some help. I fail to see how someone like Tao Pai Pai is fundamentally different than Freeza. Goku loses his first fight against the hitman because he's not as strong. He wins the second fight because he trains and becomes stronger. Becoming stronger is a part of martial arts.