Well, if I remember right, Goku never transformed in his fight with Uub. Kid Buu was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, and at end of Z, he's essentially fighting the same guy, but in his base form. So of course Goku is fighting with one hand tied behind his back if he never transforms, but he's still impressed by hard he has to work in his base form. The problem I have with how Super and End of Z connect is why would Goku still care about Uub? He's fought much stronger opponents since then. If he wants a challenge, he can go train with Whis, Vegeta, Broly, or even some fighters from other universes, such as Hit or Jiren. Training with Uub seems like a major step down for him at this point.theherodjl wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:13 pm This might be a nitpick...but also I feel like DBS might be lacking a sensible connection of strength levels to Goku & Oob's fight. When the final chapter of Z was initially written, Goku didn't have God Ki and a few more transformations to boot. As far as everyone knew at the time, Goku just had his traditional base & SSJ1-3. With the inclusion of DBS's challenges that has pushed even Base Goku to heights that the pre-BOG Goku could never have dreamed of, Oob now may have to be portrayed as being far, far stronger than initially believed if he is able to give Base Goku a convincing spar. It could be argued that Goku is simply holding waaay back but for everyone to still have such shocked impression of how strong Oob is nonetheless, I'm not feeling particularly confident that Goku is using any mere tiny fraction of his power in their fight.
What's missing in Super.
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Re: What's missing in Super.
Re: What's missing in Super.
Honestly speaking, I think this correlates with a topic that I don't see often talked about. Many people argue that nothing interesting or character wise is being done with Goku, and I'd argue that one of the most interesting things they're doing is setting up Oob. But not as a powerful opponent that is the strongest that Goku's fought, but evolving Goku into a more mentor role the more he learns from his masters. With his training from Whis and his growing experience in battle, we see in the Tournament of Power that he took quite a liking to Kale and Caulifla and helped them nurture their own power. Whether it was to make the battle more interesting for himself or not, he still took that mentor role.theherodjl wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:13 pm This might be a nitpick...but also I feel like DBS might be lacking a sensible connection of strength levels to Goku & Oob's fight. When the final chapter of Z was initially written, Goku didn't have God Ki and a few more transformations to boot. As far as everyone knew at the time, Goku just had his traditional base & SSJ1-3. With the inclusion of DBS's challenges that has pushed even Base Goku to heights that the pre-BOG Goku could never have dreamed of, Oob now may have to be portrayed as being far, far stronger than initially believed if he is able to give Base Goku a convincing spar. It could be argued that Goku is simply holding waaay back but for everyone to still have such shocked impression of how strong Oob is nonetheless, I'm not feeling particularly confident that Goku is using any mere tiny fraction of his power in their fight.
I think that they're moving him into a role that once he surpasses all his masters truly, he will become a master and start teaching similarly to the start of where he was in GT. I think Goku likes exploring the potential of his opponents as much as he does exploring his own potential, and it's a character beat that they've been doing more subtly than Vegeta's dynamic with Cabba. Maybe I'm reaching too far with the observation (Most likely am knowing Toei) but with how Goku's been acting with Kale and Caulifla, and then most recently with Broly, and then Oob, I think it's a plot point being set up to actually do something different with Goku
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Re: What's missing in Super.
They kinda made it seem like Oob was the next big opponent for Goku way back in 1996, that's all different now though twenty-some years down the road. I'm not sure how I feel about that, its a nice change but it also kinda tweaks the ending to the manga from back then.
Eh, like I said, it was just a nitpick.
Eh, like I said, it was just a nitpick.
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Re: What's missing in Super.
That's actually an interesting observation. I doubt it's intentional, as nothing in DBS seems planned in advance, but it would be really interesting if that was what they were going for.TheNingen wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:31 pmHonestly speaking, I think this correlates with a topic that I don't see often talked about. Many people argue that nothing interesting or character wise is being done with Goku, and I'd argue that one of the most interesting things they're doing is setting up Oob. But not as a powerful opponent that is the strongest that Goku's fought, but evolving Goku into a more mentor role the more he learns from his masters. With his training from Whis and his growing experience in battle, we see in the Tournament of Power that he took quite a liking to Kale and Caulifla and helped them nurture their own power. Whether it was to make the battle more interesting for himself or not, he still took that mentor role.
I think that they're moving him into a role that once he surpasses all his masters truly, he will become a master and start teaching similarly to the start of where he was in GT. I think Goku likes exploring the potential of his opponents as much as he does exploring his own potential, and it's a character beat that they've been doing more subtly than Vegeta's dynamic with Cabba. Maybe I'm reaching too far with the observation (Most likely am knowing Toei) but with how Goku's been acting with Kale and Caulifla, and then most recently with Broly, and then Oob, I think it's a plot point being set up to actually do something different with Goku
Re: What's missing in Super.
What is missing in Super?
- consistency: one main competent screenwriter,
- time skip (end of Z): there is no tension, because we know every main character is going to be okay.
Oh, and no other forms than Toriyama's. Super Saiyan Blue Evolushition, Toppo God and Super Saiyan Shitnka (Rage, ugh) are trash.
edit:
I mean, Blue is still ugly, but at least it comes from the original author.
- consistency: one main competent screenwriter,
- time skip (end of Z): there is no tension, because we know every main character is going to be okay.
Oh, and no other forms than Toriyama's. Super Saiyan Blue Evolushition, Toppo God and Super Saiyan Shitnka (Rage, ugh) are trash.
edit:
I mean, Blue is still ugly, but at least it comes from the original author.
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