Is Dragon Ball creatively bankrupt at this point?

[Grimlock]

Isn't Broly enough of a green Super Saiyan?

Nope, for some unfortunate reason we still have to put with the likes of Kale and Kafla besides him.

[JulieYBM]

Isn't Broly enough of a green Super Saiyan?

Nope, for some unfortunate reason we still have to put with the likes of Kale and Kafla besides him.

Never mind the fact that they have their own storylines and fans of their own that are completely separate from the harmless Broli references?

[ABED]

Why do you keep pointing at Zamasu's appearance as sign of a lack of originality?

Because it's a lack of an original design. It's Shin except he's tall and green.

"He's a Kaioshin"

Isn't an excuse. Did the South Supreme Kai look like Shin? Did Grand Supreme Kai look like Shin? No. Did King Kai look like South Kai or Grand Kai? No. Does Yamcha look like Krillin? No.

So not only do Kaioshin not have to look a like but it didn't have to he a Kaioshin at all. It could have been a completely new race. It didn't need to be a colour palette swapped Goku and a tall green Shin. It could have been anything completely original.

When I point out that previous arcs are broadly the same, you say the specifics are different, but when someone uses your same argument all of a sudden the little differences are meaningless.

Because they aren't broadly the same. The Saiyan arc was nothing like the Frieza arc which was nothing like the Android arc or going back anything like the Fortuneteller Baba arc which was nothing like the Red Ribbon arc.

Whereas right now the Moro arc is a complete retread of bits and pieces of other arcs with no real originality to it whatsoever. Them fighting Moro on Namek, it blowing up, Vegeta going to train on Yadrat, then being a no show when Moro shows up on Earth and the weaker ones are freaking out....is exactly what happened with them fighting Frieza on Namek, it blowing up, Goku going to Yadrat, then being a no show when Frieza shows up on Earth and the weaker ones freaking out.

What actually would have been creative would be if Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu had teamed together to actually beat a character. But no Goku shows up to the save the day by one shotting that character, which has again happened before with Recoome. It even happened in the Dragon Ball Heroes anime just last year.

Did Nail and Dende look like Piccolo... oh wait, sorry to ruin your ridiculous rant. The Kaioshin look similar in the way plenty of aliens look similar. There's enough to show they are of the same race, but different enough that they are clearly two different characters.

Yes, elder Kaioshin did look like Kaioshin, at least when he was younger and not fused with a witch.

The Saiyan ar and the Freeza arc have a very similar structure. We've been through this. Goku gets taken out early in the arc, his friends try to buy time for him to arrive, only when he arrives does anything get done against the main villain. In the Freeza and Vegeta arc, the Genki Dama hits its target but fails. Each main villain transforms at least once.

Oh and by the way, DBZ has FOUR main villains. The Saiyan arc is not part of the Freeza arc.

[Thunderbird]

Did Nail and Dende look like Piccolo...

And there's the predictable response.

"Well it doesn't matter that the humans, Kai's, Supreme Kai's, Saiyans, Androids, Dragons, Shadow Dragons etc didn't look the same.... because the Namekians looked the same so it's ok for them to be unoriginal".

The Kaioshin look similar in the way plenty of aliens look similar.

Incorrect. Except for East Supreme Kai, physically they all looked completely different entirely to the point that Grand, South and East Supreme Kai could have easily have belonged to different races.

Spoiler:

The Saiyan ar and the Freeza arc have a very similar structure. We've been through this.

And you were wrong then too.

Each main villain transforms at least once.

Because that makes it nearly the same lol. This is again where you are making the same mistake. You are talking about a specific, "Shenron made a wish in each arc so the structure is the same" is not a counterpoint.

A main villain transforming is not the same as the entirety of the Moro arc being a rip off of other arcs.

Moro being yet another villain from millions of years ago who was stopped after Grand Supreme Kai made a self sacrifice like the Buu arc.

Moro being a Wizard like Babidi, being an anthropomorphic animal in a time where Dragon Ball Supers lack of ideas has meant we've also had a talking bear, a trio of dogs, a mouse, a fox, an elephant, a rabbit, a bird and now a goat.

Moro being an old fossil who wants the Dragon Balls to restore his youth like Piccolo, Slug and Mechikabura.

Namek blowing up...again. A Saiyan going to Yadrat where he receives training immediately afterwards....again. Goku training in a room that looks like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber because they can't think of a new environment....again.

The Dragon Team fighting the main antagonists henchmen while they wait for Goku and Vegeta to arrive...again after being a big plot point of a movie that only came out 5 years ago which itself wasn't a new idea.

"Goku threw a punch in each arc" is not an equivalent to an entire story arc of having no originality at all.

Oh and by the way, DBZ has FOUR main villains. The Saiyan arc is not part of the Freeza arc.

That that was your defence to what I said, tells me everything that I needed to know lol.

[Grimlock]

Never mind the fact that they have their own storylines and fans of their own that are completely separate from the harmless Broli references?

"Harmless"? That green hair hurts my eyes. I mean, I don't care for Kale anyway, a terrible form for a terrible character. But I feel sorry for Kafla.

[Matches Malone]

Broly becoming some ally who will be used as a measuring stick to make other villains look more impressive which is not new because that's been done for 30 years.

Exactly, it's been done for 30 years. This is a problem with DB as a whole, not just with modern DB (which brought a new set of problems to the table). Unlike other Shonen, DB is structured in a way that requires everyone around the hero to be used as a measuring stick, and every previous villain to be used as such for the new one. The problem is that the characters are only different in raw power. No one has anything that helps them standout, so if they don't have raw power, they're pretty much useless. In other Shonen series, such as Naruto, what characters lack in raw power is made up with other means such as special abilities and critical thinking.

It did seem like for a minute that the franchise was changing this with Hit's time skip, but that idea didn't really go anywhere and it was back to who could hit (pun intended) harder. Jiren's entire story and character revolved around his ability to punch harder than anyone else. We're constantly told how smart Piccolo is, but nothing comes of it. DB had been out of the picture for nearly 20 years, and in those 20 years massive developments in storytelling and character development had been made across the industry, but DB came back as if nothing happened, and as if it was the only show in town.

I would say that bringing in Cooler would seem redundant after Frost, but we did have Broly after Kale, so whatever.

It's no more redundant than other nostalgic call backs they've made, yet were somehow successful. I don't know about other fan bases, but DB's fans seem to really like the idea of the same old thing being done multiple times instead of having new things. I think if Toei did a poll before the production of every movie asking fans what they wanted, the options of things like bringing back or canonizing a classic element would always come out on top.

With how successful Broly was, I don't think we'll ever get an original movie again. Don't get me wrong, the Broly movie was good, but was it different enough to justify being made ? was there anything wrong with the original to require it being remade ? the answer to both is no, and I expect if (when) we get a Cooler remake, it'll be very similar to the original, maybe even more so than Broly.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

In other Shonen series, such as Naruto, what characters lack in raw power is made up with other means such as special abilities and critical thinking.

HxH's Yorkshin City Arc was a masterclass in taking advantage of a diverse, creative cast on both sides of the battlefield. Nothing ever felt like an asspull and when it concludes in an anticlimax you're almost grateful that the death toll stopped where it did.

But both series (HxH and Naruto) have the advantage of taking definitive stances on just what a typical body can handle. In Naruto if you stab a jounin in their sleep, the jounin is dead. Concious effort must be made or all that power is worthless.

In Dragon Ball we don't really know what catching a character with their defenses lowered amounts to. Sure in the Saiyan Saga and OG Tournament Arcs injuries are injuries and a weakened enemy is easily killed. But what about now that the core group can fart nebulas into oblivion? Without clear limits it's hard to structure fights in ways to reward creativity and improvisation.

[Mad Swami]

I think this question is really weird to answer. It has so man variables in my opinion. While yes the show's current direction doesn't seem creative really, some ideas here and there show promise. Zamasu is great idea for a villain, Beerus is amazing, they can reinvent certain characters (which I think is fine, you can reuse non canon characters and make them work and that doesn't make it any less creative), There are new universes to explore and not to mention the Dark Empire which could be thrown in at any time. Not to mention, there is the Moro arc. An arc comprised of new characters and abilities. So in summary no i don't think so, I just think the series isn't doing everything right

[Matches Malone]

HxH's Yorkshin City Arc was a masterclass in taking advantage of a diverse, creative cast on both sides of the battlefield. Nothing ever felt like an asspull and when it concludes in an anticlimax you're almost grateful that the death toll stopped where it did.

But both series (HxH and Naruto) have the advantage of taking definitive stances on just what a typical body can handle. In Naruto if you stab a jounin in their sleep, the jounin is dead. Concious effort must be made or all that power is worthless.

In Dragon Ball we don't really know what catching a character with their defenses lowered amounts to. Sure in the Saiyan Saga and OG Tournament Arcs injuries are injuries and a weakened enemy is easily killed. But what about now that the core group can fart nebulas into oblivion? Without clear limits it's hard to structure fights in ways to reward creativity and improvisation.

The problem is that the longer DB went on, the more it solely relied on raw power. Now we're at a point where a henchman has to be somewhere between Kid Buu and Beerus to be able to fight Goku and Vegeta. DB's power path was never sustainable, something even Toriyama said being a reason for ending the manga where he did, as he simply didn't believe Goku could get any stronger in a meaningful way. One thing I liked about BOG is that it understood this, so it found a way to make Goku stronger through a different way. I'm not the biggest fan of the hand holding method, but at least it was an effort.

I think this question is really weird to answer. It has so man variables in my opinion. While yes the show's current direction doesn't seem creative really, some ideas here and there show promise.

The problem is that the show's creativity is being buried by all the nostalgic elements constantly being brought back. Look at RF, before the movie was formally announced, the tagline for it was "the worst wish in history being made". There's so much potential in that idea...but instead of doing something creative, they bring back Freeza with it.

That was followed by the Champa arc, which also had a great idea behind it, introducing a new universe...then we're told it'll just be a tournament. We get to the tournament and we're introduced to some very interesting characters, but for some reason were also got stuck with another Saiyan and a Freeza clone, despite just getting a Freeza movie AND arc. When we see U6 again, instead of focusing on someone interesting like Hit or bringing in someone new, we're stuck with 2 other Saiyans, one who's more annoying than Cell arc Vegeta and a Broly clone.

Champa's arc was followed by the Zamasu arc, but instead of actually doing something in U10, we're stuck in the future timeline...because of reasons. Instead of fleshing out Zamasu's character and justifying his actions and beliefs, we're stuck following Trunks and the fits he throws. That's followed by the TOP, which promoted the introduction of new universes fighting it out for survival, only to have the whole threat be a lie and the universes to have the most generic character put on paper. And finally Broly, it was announced to look at the Saiyans history, so everyone was excited to see Toriyama's spin on it...only to get Broly 2.0 and DB Minus.

As shown above, there's plenty of creativity available, what's lacking it talented writers who can move on from DB's past and enter uncharted grounds that push this franchise forward.

[TheNingen]

*snip*

I'm so sorry that you're numb. But just because you're condescending doesn't mean you get to pass off your opinion as fact and act like you're speaking for the fanbase as a whole in the process. Get off your high horse and get your ego in check. Ignore and dismiss whatever you want, congratulations kiddo, you're still wrong. We get it. Nothing will satisfy you. A bagel is the same thing as a doughnut. Everything is only about appearance and nothing else matters. If it looks similar, it's the same. Kaioken and Super Saiyan God are the same because they both turn Goku red. Gogeta is just an adult Gotenks because they look the same except Gogeta has a bang. Kid Buu is the same as Super Buu except he's a kid. Vegetto is a palette swap of Vegeta except with a Goku undershirt and two bangs.

This is your argument. THIS is what you're peddling. And you want people to take you seriously. Wow. Characters look similar. Champa is a fat Beerus. Must be a lazy design. Vados is a palette swapped Whis with a pony tail. Nothing distinct about the two at all. Android 17 and 18 are palette swaps! They both look the same except with different clothes.

The only legitimate thing you have a mere iota of a point about in terms of forms not being significant or meaning anything is Golden Freeza and Super Saiyan Blue. Because they both in hindsight mean nothing except to express a new level of power and don't give us any insight or character growth in Goku or Freeza. They're both stronger and given new forms because they need to. The only one who this wouldn't apply to is Vegeta.

Super Saiyan God and Ultra Instinct both serve story purposes into Goku's development and inform us about his character. And in many of the smaller 'filler' arcs of Super, we see Goku practicing many of the fundamentals that would help him achieve Ultra Instinct. And in Super Saiyan God's case, it starts as a form Goku reluctantly takes in a way he isn't fond of to save the Earth. He doesn't like the power not being able to be attained by himself. And through his battle with Beerus, he gradually does make the power his own and achieves his wish. You don't have to like the forms, but you again are being intellectually dishonest by saying they're just palette swaps and nothing else and there's no ideas or substance behind it. You making the argument is not only ignorant, but it's wrong. And this is coming from someone who in the beginning did argue and see Super Saiyan God as simply a 'Kaioken palette swap'

I get it. For both Ultra Instinct and Super Saiyan God, you wanted the original design. Long haired muscle Goku with a cape, or something trashy like out of MaStarMedia's traced Anime War crap. You want to look at things from a surface level? Fine. That's fantastic. Ignore thematic meaning, ignore what the forms represent. Sure, you're right. Shin is the same as Zamasu. They're the same character except Zamasu is tall and green. And Ultra Instinct? Nah, it's just good ol goofy Goku with a bit spikier hair and silver eyes. Wise cracking and being dumb, but also a little serious and not taking his opponent seriously. His character doesn't even change at all lmao. That's Ultra Instinct to a TEE. You really nailed it. It's super unoriginal. My eyes are just...incredibly open right now.

Super Saiyan God? Nah man! Just Kaioken! It damages Goku's body and leaves him in pain. Spikes up his hair a bit, makes his muscles bigger. Super Saiyan 1-3 is unoriginal also. It's just Goku with yellow spiky hair and green eyes. So it's all lazy. And I can use Kaioken as a form because you yourself have called it a form in your example of Goku getting a 'new form' every arc.

You want these big and bold drastic changes. Dragon Ball has never been about that. It has NEVER been that. ALL of the transformations have been in part something to make it more simple for Toriyama. You act like it's new. News flash: EVERYTHING when boiled down to its most simplest components will make it look unoriginal. Literally everything. And you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Dragon Ball as a whole. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Toriyama and how he likes to do things, so maybe you should go back to MaStar Media and watch his stuff. Or maybe even YoungJiji and his Dragon Ball AF series since you're obsessed with not understanding the artist or the intent behind why he does what he does.

Super has provided new ideas of worth that Z didn't explore.
-Alternate universes that have links between them depending on the pairs they make (whether all of them have been explored or not)
-The god and angel hierarchy and the rules regarding angels.
-A self righteous and noble character who believes in committing genocide on mortals to bring balance to the multiverse.
-Ultra Instinct as a concept bringing Goku's teachings to the forefront.
-Goku as a mentor (being more built up and foreshadowed than anything that Z gave)


This will be my last post to you. As I have said before, you have no intentions of having a debate in good faith. You clearly are like a child with his fingers stuck in his ears going "blah blah I can't hear you" and hoping to dominate the conversation by talking louder over everyone else. You don't wish to listen, you don't wish to have your mind changed. Everyone is wrong but you. I get it.

And by the way....Z has had plenty of its arcs use ideas from existing media. There are plenty of storylines you can use and boil down to its most minimal state and use to call it uncreative. Because that's what you do. You ignore context, you ignore subtext, you ignore literally everything for the sake of minimizing anything and everything so you don't have to provide credit or acknowledge anything in a work of fiction that you actively despise. I have no interest in carrying a conversation with such a stilted, close minded user on here.

[SupremeKai25]

Champa's arc was followed by the Zamasu arc, but instead of actually doing something in U10, we're stuck in the future timeline...because of reasons. Instead of fleshing out Zamasu's character and justifying his actions and beliefs, we're stuck following Trunks and the fits he throws. That's followed by the TOP, which promoted the introduction of new universes fighting it out for survival, only to have the whole threat be a lie and the universes to have the most generic character put on paper. And finally Broly, it was announced to look at the Saiyans history, so everyone was excited to see Toriyama's spin on it...only to get Broly 2.0 and DB Minus.

I don't really see the point in fleshing-out U10 for longer than required for the plot. U10, with Planet Babari, served as catalyst for Zamasu's final decision that all mortals must be destroyed to restore universal peace. U10 merely served as a mean to develop Zamasu's character, and that's fine. Personally I am not interested in world-building, especially not in Dragon Ball.

Why do you think they did not devote enough time to Zamasu's actions and beliefs?

[ABED]

Looking at that picture, those Kaioshin do look very similar. Not the same, just similar. And just because I was predictable in pointing at the Namekians all looking alike doesn't make it less true.

And you were wrong then too.

Seeing as how you don't have a cogent well reasoned response to my point about their structure then, it's not surprising you don't have one now.

Because that makes it nearly the same lol.

Again with the arrogance. Stop it. Stop dropping context as well. That was clearly one point out of a number to show you each arc in DBZ has VERY common elements. On their own, yes, they don't add up to much, but take together it clearly forms a pattern.

That that was your defence to what I said, tells me everything that I needed to know lol.

You make it sound like it's the crux of my defense and not just an aside. I wrote "and by the way..." Your arrogance, and sheer ignorance in this entire thread tell me everything I need to know. Your viewpoint about genre was especially noteworthy.

One big reason I like tournaments is there are rules imposed on even the strongest fighters, such as boundaries. Vegeta can lose a match against even a weaker opponent via ring out.

[kemuri07]

There's just no narrative progression to Dragon Ball anymore. Sure you can always add more: more transformations , more tournaments, more enemies, more fusions, more more more more more more. But more /= better, and there's been too many cases with franchises that mistakenly believe that adding more lore makes for a captivating narrative. It really doesn't.

[Matches Malone]

I don't really see the point in fleshing-out U10 for longer than required for the plot.

Why do you think they did not devote enough time to Zamasu's actions and beliefs?

It'd be more interesting than visiting the same old future timeline we were already familiar with. If you're going to have a villain from U10, the plot might as well be set there.

Zamasu based the decision to wipe out billions of beings on 2 mindless creatures fighting and attacking him. He might have as well based it on 2 street cats fighting in some back yard. It doesn't help that he was also reduced to some narcissist who really only cared about himself. The potential was there, but it lacked talented writers to bring it to life. If you want to see this kind of character done right, look up Sensui from Yuyu hakusho or Pain from Naruto.

There's just no narrative progression to Dragon Ball anymore.

That's because DB as a narrative reached its natural conclusion in the Buu arc. I do believe the BOG movie added more to the story, but everything after just feels unnaturally tacked on. DB has unfortunately been reduced to strong guys punching each other, before moving on to the next batch of strong guys to punch. The narrative and character development that drove the original manga have taken a back seat to the action.

[SupremeKai25]

I don't really see the point in fleshing-out U10 for longer than required for the plot.

Why do you think they did not devote enough time to Zamasu's actions and beliefs?

It'd be more interesting than visiting the same old future timeline we were already familiar with. If you're going to have a villain from U10, the plot might as well be set there.

Zamasu based the decision to wipe out billions of beings on 2 mindless creatures fighting and attacking him. He might have as well based it on 2 street cats fighting in some back yard. It doesn't help that he was also reduced to some narcissist who really only cared about himself. The potential was there, but it lacked talented writers to bring it to life. If you want to see this kind of character done right, look up Sensui from Yuyu hakusho or Pain from Naruto.

There's just no narrative progression to Dragon Ball anymore.

That's because DB as a narrative reached its natural conclusion in the Buu arc. I do believe the BOG movie added more to the story, but everything after just feels unnaturally tacked on. DB has unfortunately been reduced to strong guys punching each other, before moving on to the next batch of strong guys to punch. The narrative and character development that drove the original manga have taken a back seat to the action.

And a huge portion of the story was indeed set there. Episodes 53-59 all feature U10 in a lot of scenes. Plus I don't have a problem with Future timeline being featured in that arc, because it's explained why Zamasu specifically attacked that place, it's not a random choice. He chose that timeline because it was the only one where Beerus, Shin, and the Z Fighters were all dead, so he could've carried out his project much faster and without any obstacle.

Zamasu didn't base his decisions solely on Planet Babari. By his own word, he had already witnessed countless examples like Babari, in which mortals pointlessly fought each other and died all on an endless loop. Babari was just the last straw that proved to him that mortals will never learn and the universe will not have peace so long as they exist.

I know Pain, he's one of my favourite anime villains, but he's not the type of villain Zamasu was meant to be. Pain at first glance seems to have a god complex, but in reality he considers himself an ordinary man, who is just trying to bring peace the only way he knows how, through pain. Zamasu is not that, and you can even see that in how they behave with their enemies. Pain often questioned his opponents on how they would achieve his goal, whereas Zamasu was so twisted that he never doubted in himself and in his path and refused to hear any criticism. Plus peace is not the only thing he's after, he also wants to literally wash away the old world and replace it with his new utopia. Pain never talked about any paradise or utopian world he was going to create. Zamasu is more similar to Obito/Madara or Light Yagami tbh, though obviously on a much larger scale because he was a multiversal threat.

[Thunderbird]

This is your argument. THIS is what you're peddling. And you want people to take you seriously.

You seem offended so you are taking me seriously.

Champa is a fat Beerus. Must be a lazy design. Vados is a palette swapped Whis with a pony tail.

Yep, the very first two characters designed for Dragon Ball Super were criticised from the beginning from just being a fat Beerus and a female Whis. The lack of creativity was showing from the very beginning. Of course then the next characters included a colour palette swapped Frieza and yet another Saiyan.

Super Saiyan God and Ultra Instinct both serve story purposes into Goku's development and inform us about his character.

Utterly irrelevant, has nothing to do with it's design being a lazy colour palette swap.

You want to look at things from a surface level? Fine. That's fantastic. Ignore thematic meaning, ignore what the forms represent.

Again, I wasn't referring to anything pretentious. I'm referring to the design and no matter how deep and fancy you want to make it sound, it's still always going to be base Goku with red hair and silver hair.

Shin is the same as Zamasu. They're the same character except Zamasu is tall and green.

Wasn't referring to personality so you've missed the point here too.

Super has provided new ideas of worth that Z didn't explore.
-Alternate universes that have links between them depending on the pairs they make (whether all of them have been explored or not)
-The god and angel hierarchy and the rules regarding angels.
-A self righteous and noble character who believes in committing genocide on mortals to bring balance to the multiverse.
-Ultra Instinct as a concept bringing Goku's teachings to the forefront.
-Goku as a mentor (being more built up and foreshadowed than anything that Z gave)

Alternate Universes that weren't really touched upon. The main characters of the show only visited one other Universe briefly which was Universe 10, which of course as a location was a colour palette swapped version of the Supreme Kai's planet from Universe 10. The idea of alternate universes is just a further expansion on an old idea which began with first having other planets and then other realms. If they came up with alternate Multiverses it wouldn't be creative either.

Same with the Gods and Angels, again just expanding on ever increasing Gods. Nothing new.

A character who wants to kill mortals, like most other villains have. A stupid plot line, Zamasu was a God, had a God complex, hated that Mortals were able to equal Gods so then wanted to kill all Mortals....but then also killed all the Gods anyway. So really he just wanted to kill everyone.

Ultra Instinct was at least initially different due to Goku's body moving on it's own and having the automatic dodge but then by the time he fought Jiren and was getting smacked around it just became yet another form that provides a power up. Still just a colour palette swap.

Goku as a mentor, never happened.

And pretty much the rest of your post was just you waffling on.

[Thunderbird]

Looking at that picture, those Kaioshin do look very similar. Not the same, just similar. And just because I was predictable in pointing at the Namekians all looking alike doesn't make it less true.

It doesn't make it less true but it is you making the same mistake as that other user, handpicking examples to make excuses for Super's failings.

Lets just recap here, the Supreme Kai's do not look the same, any similarity is in regard to clothing and maybe hair, otherwise Grand Supreme Kai, South Supreme Kai and Shin look nothing alike. Therefore Zamasu does not have to look alike. Yet your excuse was that because a completely different race altogether all look alike it's perfectly fine for Zamasu to be a tall green Shin even though he did not have to.

Seeing as how you don't have a cogent well reasoned response to my point about their structure then, it's not surprising you don't have one now.

Well you missed the point so there's no reason to give a thought out response to it.

That was clearly one point out of a number to show you each arc in DBZ has VERY common elements. On their own, yes, they don't add up to much, but take together it clearly forms a pattern.

Which yet again is not my point. I never referred to common obvious specifics.

I'm referring to an entire story arc having no originality because all it's major plot points are a copy of what we already had. Not "Goku spoke to Krillin in each arc or Goku fired a Kamehameha in each arc". A main antagonist having a transformation is not equal to the Moro arc as a whole having no originality.

Your viewpoint about genre was especially noteworthy.

The viewpoint that Ace Ventura wasn't a thriller? lol.

One big reason I like tournaments is there are rules imposed on even the strongest fighters, such as boundaries. Vegeta can lose a match against even a weaker opponent via ring out.

Hmmm.....but he didn't did he?

[kemuri07]

There's just no narrative progression to Dragon Ball anymore.

That's because DB as a narrative reached its natural conclusion in the Buu arc. I do believe the BOG movie added more to the story, but everything after just feels unnaturally tacked on. DB has unfortunately been reduced to strong guys punching each other, before moving on to the next batch of strong guys to punch. The narrative and character development that drove the original manga have taken a back seat to the action.

Right. at the very least, the Super manga has been trying to walk a lot of that back--but it's still Dragon Ball, so it's chained to the idea that it's the Saiyan Super Show. DB as a franchise is too big for its own good.

I've long accepted the fact that DB will never make me feel the way I felt about the series when I was a kid, so the franchises constant attempts to use nostalgia to win me over just don't work. Fighterz is the rare exception as not only is it an incredibly fun fighting game, it knows it's just fanservice: the video game and has fun with it.

[SupremeKai25]

Therefore Zamasu does not have to look alike.

And he doesn't. This is how Zamasu would look like if he was a simple color palette switch of Shin:



Very clearly, that Zamasu is not the Zamasu we all know. Different hairstyle, clothes, facial structure, and body proportion. It's not just a change of skin and clothes color:

[ABED]

Yes, the Kaioshin look NOTHING alike. You could NEVER guess they are from the same exact species.

I'm referring to an entire story arc having no originality because all it's major plot points are a copy of what we already had. Not "Goku spoke to Krillin in each arc or Goku fired a Kamehameha in each arc". A main antagonist having a transformation is not equal to the Moro arc as a whole having no originality.

For the love of god, I'm not pointing to a few minor similarities. The structure, as in the fundamental building block of the stories, are awfully similar. Christ, the Namek arc pulls the "take Goku out early and have everyone else try and buy time" beat TWICE.

Hmmm.....but he didn't did he?

Hmmmm... but Goku did. Hell, even Hit did. The strongest didn't win the tournament. It doesn't even matter that Vegeta didn't lose to a weaker opponent. The fact that he could is important enough.

The viewpoint that Ace Ventura wasn't a thriller? lol.

More like you thinking DB and OP are the same genre or Pirates shows/movies aren't a genre. You need a list to support your point, one that you didn't even bother to read. You don't understand what constitutes a genre, and you pull this shit like misquoting me all the time. I didn't say it was a thriller. I said that it mixed genres. And you didn't have a viewpoint. You just laughed because you can't read properly, take things out of context, and can't form a remotely intelligent response without talking down to people. When you're called on it, you double down on the condescension, and claim you don't have to give a well reasoned response. Well how convenient for you. We're done.