What do you want with Broly?

[SupremeKai25]

How is the time frame holding back DB?

For starters, they can't kill off anyone who's alive in EOZ. They can't do anything drastic with the status quo that doesn't line up with EOZ. The tension levels will always be low because we know everyone and everything will be OK thanks to EOZ.

Not really. Both the Future Trunks arc and ToP arc were full of tension. The former because the Future timeline was not shown anywhere in End of Z, the latter because it was a real possibility that Jiren won the tournament and decided to restore the universes at the end (since Goku changed his heart). Even if we know the end point, we don't know how the story gets there, and that's where tension comes from.

[ABED]

Considering how little death means in DB, I'd hardly call your counter a slam dunk. Also, the possibility of death isn't the only way to increase tension.

[HimuraBenny]

If broly were like to self destruct because of his lack of control of his powers, say at a vital point in a story arc, that could be very compelling.

Otherwise Broly is just too strong and yea most likely will be written as a side character or just swoops in to save the day.

[Grimlock]

My issue isn't really that line as much as someone like Marron going from the first picture to the second picture in 4 or so years.

*Images of pain and suffering*

How on earth does this make sense ? In 4 years she's going to go from being put in a baby's seat to being nearly as tall as her mother ?

I feel nothing but pain to see these characters not freaking aging. What was once one of the most beautiful and charming aspects of the franchise, now turned to ashes. And when you compare them with images side by side like that...

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

My issue isn't really that line as much as someone like Marron going from the first picture to the second picture in 4 or so years.

*Images of pain and suffering*

How on earth does this make sense ? In 4 years she's going to go from being put in a baby's seat to being nearly as tall as her mother ?

I feel nothing but pain to see these characters not freaking aging. What was once one of the most beautiful and charming aspects of the franchise, now turned to ashes. And when you compare them with images side by side like that...

Has Bulma even tried out a new haircut since BoG?

[WittyUsername]

My issue isn't really that line as much as someone like Marron going from the first picture to the second picture in 4 or so years.

*Images of pain and suffering*

How on earth does this make sense ? In 4 years she's going to go from being put in a baby's seat to being nearly as tall as her mother ?

I feel nothing but pain to see these characters not freaking aging. What was once one of the most beautiful and charming aspects of the franchise, now turned to ashes. And when you compare them with images side by side like that...

Has Bulma even tried out a new haircut since BoG?

She’s kept the same consistent hair style since RF.

[Matches Malone]

To a lesser extent, the same applies to Goten and Trunks. Those two are supposed to be in or approaching their teens at this point, but they still look younger than Gohan did when he fought Cell.

Gohan ? they look younger than they were in the Buu arc.

Broly is just too strong and yea most likely will be written as a side character or just swoops in to save the day.

They'll just make everyone stronger than him. This is the same show that has Krillin holding his own against Blue Goku.

[Grimlock]

So... 90% of Super's timeline?

Yeah, mostly. You could also say that it's a timeskip of months between Movie 14 and early Movie 15 too, considering what's make them apart is more or less the time of Videl's pregnancy.

Has Bulma even tried out a new haircut since BoG?

Yes, but there are far more interesting things to happen other than Bulma changing her hair yet again. Won't complain too much though, her currently haircut is way much better than her Movie 14's one.

[SupremeKai25]

Considering how little death means in DB, I'd hardly call your counter a slam dunk. Also, the possibility of death isn't the only way to increase tension.

I didn't even say that was the only way to create tension...

[ABED]

Considering how little death means in DB, I'd hardly call your counter a slam dunk. Also, the possibility of death isn't the only way to increase tension.

I didn't even say that was the only way to create tension...

I didn't quote Bruce... Matches. Dammit, why do I keep doing that? Anways, I understand the confusion, sorry. I was responding to him.

[SupremeKai25]

Considering how little death means in DB, I'd hardly call your counter a slam dunk. Also, the possibility of death isn't the only way to increase tension.

I didn't even say that was the only way to create tension...

I didn't quote Bruce... Matches. Dammit, why do I keep doing that? Anways, I understand the confusion, sorry. I was responding to him.

Oh alright, no worries.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

How is the time frame holding back DB?

For starters, they can't kill off anyone who's alive in EOZ. They can't do anything drastic with the status quo that doesn't line up with EOZ. The tension levels will always be low because we know everyone and everything will be OK thanks to EOZ.

Cast will never be killed off permanently anyway. Plenty of new characters introduced whose future is still in balance, Beerus Whis U6 Broly trio. Zeno's. Existing characters fates are also unknown like Freeza, Kaioshin and Kaio.

Future Trunks' timelime was obliterated EoZ didn't tell us that would be okay. Fans are putting too much stock in EoZ and what it means.

As for status quo EoZ was so short hardly anything was established nothing in EoZ suggests Vegeta couldn't be the new GoD for example so that very much could be a status quo they go down for his character if they want too.

EoZ doesn't really make much of a difference at the end of the day.

[Zeon_Grunt]

Cast will never be killed off permanently anyway.

This is just true in general. Dragon Ball is not and never has been that kind of story. The only time we ever got close to a main character permanently dying was Goku after Cell and that was rendered moot almost immediately after the Boo arc started.

There's a lot of people who grew up with Dragon Ball that don't seem to realize, or actively refuse, to accept that it is and always has been a franchise for kids. Hell, I just got out of an argument with a dude on another forum who swore up and down that One Piece and Dragon Ball are actually made for adult readers and that being a Shonen or being made specifically for Weekly Shonen Jump doesn't mean "made for kids."

Their reasoning was that because you saw Bulma's nipples and kid Goku's penis in classic Dragon Ball, the fact that people flip the bird to one another, and the overall violence in the series, that automatically invalidates any notion that the series is meant for anyone under the age of 18 (though eventually he did back track that to try and paint teenagers as adults, claiming that anyone over 14 is already entering adulthood).

Would it have been nice if Dragon Ball matured and "grew up," with those of us who have been here for 30 years? Sure, but it was never the intention of Toriyama, Toei, or Shueisha to have Dragon Ball be for to anyone other than children. I'm more than sure they'd outright cancel development of the series long before they decided to take everything super seriously and change the demographic from kids to adults.

[ABED]

Would it have been nice if Dragon Ball matured and "grew up," with those of us who have been here for 30 years?

Eh, I'm more than fine when children's programs don't grow up with the audience.

[Zeon_Grunt]

Would it have been nice if Dragon Ball matured and "grew up," with those of us who have been here for 30 years?

Eh, I'm more than fine when children's programs don't grow up with the audience.

It's more of a case by case thing in my eyes. Sure shows like Spongebob or My Little Pony shouldn't age up for the older demographics, but it would be nice if we got, say, a serious attempt at a Pokemon anime/OVA/game for teens or adults now that there's such a huge portion of the fanbase over the age of 25.

That's not to say there's anything wrong with any series maintaining a status quo or demographic. There's a place in any medium for franchises and characters like Mickey Mouse, but there's also a place in kids media for characters like Harley Quinn, who went from a child friendly partner for the Joker in Batman the Animated Series to having her own adult oriented show on DC's streaming service (which is fantastic btw).

[WittyUsername]

In the case of Dragon Ball, you could make the argument that it sort of did “grow up” in its original run. The characters got older, the status quo was frequently changed up and even though Goku himself remained more or less the same, the characters around him did have a fair amount of development. Super is a lot more stagnant in comparison, which is an unfortunate consequence of stubbornly trying to fit everything within the 10 year time skip.

[ABED]

it would be nice if we got, say, a serious attempt at a Pokemon anime/OVA/game for teens or adults now that there's such a huge portion of the fanbase over the age of 25.

1 - People of that age or even older have no problem with watching children's programming.
2 - There's no benefit to being more adult.
3 - It's less the case of DB or Pokemon, etc. to age with the audience and more that the stories should just not treat kids as morons.

(which is fantastic btw).

Impossible. Harley Quinn is such an inherently grating "character" she makes everything she's in worse as a result. She's the Chichi of the DC universe in that she drags down every scene she's in. I'd rather watch Broly films than either Chichi or HQ.

Super is trying to keep the status quo but there are small developments here and there. I do think the longer a series goes on, the more likely people are going to claim it's awful and I think that's less of a result of quality drops and more the result of the story having tread so much ground. When the story first began, everything was new and fresh and the world had limitless possibilities. It's impossible to keep up. I think the same applies to The Simpsons. I've seen every episode and it's still genuinely very funny. I don't know if it's not as funny as its "golden years" but much of that came from it being fresh and it was subversive and edgy at the time.

[Zeon_Grunt]

it would be nice if we got, say, a serious attempt at a Pokemon anime/OVA/game for teens or adults now that there's such a huge portion of the fanbase over the age of 25.

1 - People of that age or even older have no problem with watching children's programming.
2 - There's no benefit to being more adult.
3 - It's less the case of DB or Pokemon, etc. to age with the audience and more that the stories should just not treat kids as morons.

(which is fantastic btw).

Impossible. Harley Quinn is such an inherently grating "character" she makes everything she's in worse as a result. She's the Chichi of the DC universe in that she drags down every scene she's in. I'd rather watch Broly films than either Chichi or HQ.

1. To say that all fans of the Pokemon franchise enjoy the anime is dubious at best, or a flat out lie at worst.
2. There is always a benefit to taking new concepts and using them to explore more mature themes. I'm not saying we should have graphic sex or violence introduced to the series or anything, but making a standalone anime or OVA about an adult's life and adventures in the Pokemon universe would probably go over really well. Pokemon is one of those universes so expansive and with so much potential for different, disconnected stories that it can absolutely go the way comics did and mature beyond endless rehashes of a perpetually 10 yo Ash playing with Team Rocket's most incompetent members.
3. They absolutely should stop treating kids like morons, but that doesn't mean every piece of media attached to the franchises has to be specifically made for children.

You having a personal bias against the character on a conceptual level doesn't automatically make anything with her objectively worse. Pretty much everyone who has reviewed it, as well as everyone I've talked to or seen discuss it love the show. Even if they didn't care for Harley herself, the voice acting, writing, and side characters generally carry the show perfectly fine (Ivy being a highlight and King Shark being a person favorite). Your disdain for the character doesn't mean it can't possibly be good.

[ABED]

I don't see that to be the case. If the audience grows up, why should the franchise grow into something else? Why shouldn't they just find other stories that are aimed at older audiences?

Pokemon isn't a story. It's a world. It's a premise. It's all about the video games. The series is simply a promotional tool. What potential?

If it's a kids show, it should stay a kids' show. I only think we need to reevaluate what is appropriate for kids. They can tell mature stories but they don't have to be for adults. I'm drawing a distinction between mature and adult. For instance, I can tell a dirty joke that's for adults, but it doesn't make it mature.

Pretty much everyone who has reviewed it, as well as everyone I've talked to or seen discuss it love the show.

You're talking to the one guy who doesn't like it. It's one step above TFS.

[Zeon_Grunt]

I don't see that to be the case. If the audience grows up, why should the franchise grow into something else? Why shouldn't they just find other stories that are aimed at older audiences?

Pokemon isn't a story. It's a world. It's a premise. It's all about the video games. The series is simply a promotional tool. What potential?

If it's a kids show, it should stay a kids' show. I only think we need to reevaluate what is appropriate for kids. They can tell mature stories but they don't have to be for adults. I'm drawing a distinction between mature and adult. For instance, I can tell a dirty joke that's for adults, but it doesn't make it mature.

Pretty much everyone who has reviewed it, as well as everyone I've talked to or seen discuss it love the show.

You're talking to the one guy who doesn't like it. It's one step above TFS.

On the same notion, why should we have to give up on the franchises we love, simply because we grew up? Again, it's not impossible to successfully evolve a brand or franchise from being explicitly the realm of children's entertainment to something that produces content for multiple different demographics. DC and Marvel comics are both testaments to growing up in such a way and it's because they did so, while still producing separate content for all other ages, that they've managed to not only remain relevant for over 50 years, but have relatively recently overtaken pop culture. That never would have happened if we didn't get stories like The Dark Knight Returns or films like The Dark Knight, Logan, or Deadpool.

Exactly, and it's because Pokemon is a premise that it has as much potential to explore as many different themes or stories as the franchise is comfortable exploring. The anime doesn't have to be just a promotional device, and distancing it from that idea would only do the franchise good in terms of longevity and lifelong fan retention.

Also, you're confusing the desire for a story to be made with adults viewers in mind with wanting the franchise to become something like Family Guy or Berserk. A story doesn't have to be super vulgar or graphic (sexually or violently) to be made for adults. It just has to tell stories that adults would relate to more than the kids would. A story about a washed up, aged Gym leader trying to deal with life after glory is an excellent premise for a Pokemon story that adults would enjoy, but kids likely wouldn't.

Neat, you can not like it all you want, but that doesn't make it "impossible" for it to be good. Your opinion on the quality of any show is not an objective fact. Just because you personally don't enjoy it, doesn't mean it's a bad show and that the millions who loved it are wrong.