Who is a Mary Sue in Drago Ball.

[MasenkoHA]

Your argument is: He's the only one who gets is so it's an example of him being special.

It's a terrible argument because he's the only one who gets it because the special is about him. The conflict is Bardock gets psychic visions of planet Vegeta's end (and also conveniently events in the future of Dragon Ball from past episodes as an excuse for a partial clip show) despite having the ability to see planet Vegeta's end he can doing nothing to stop the planet from being destroyed and the only thing he achieves is the knowledge that his son (that he earlier completely dismissed) will grow up to face Freeza and avenge the Saiyan race.

[Fionordequester]

The conflict is Bardock gets psychic visions of planet Vegeta's end (and also conveniently events in the future of Dragon Ball from past episodes as an excuse for a partial clip show) despite having the ability to see planet Vegeta's end he can doing nothing to stop the planet from being destroyed and the only thing he achieves is the knowledge that his son (that he earlier completely dismissed) will grow up to face Freeza and avenge the Saiyan race.

So basically, everything Bardock "knew" was wrong

[SSJgogeto]

While I think this conflict doesn't invalidate what I said before, I have no problem about Bardock having this ability. My point is: just because is a special about Bardock they don't need to give everything to him.

[MasenkoHA]

While I think this conflict doesn't invalidate what I said before, I have no problem about Bardock having this ability. My point is: just because is a special about Bardock they don't need to give everything to him.

They don’t...

[Fionordequester]

Not in the Toei movie, anyway. Everything AFTER about "Episode of Bardock", though...

[SSJgogeto]

Yeah, in Heroes and Xenoverse he is powerful as hell

And probably you guys will disagree with me, but I think they give essentially everything to him. The only thing he didn't have is the power to defeat Freeza, but he's still too powerful comparing to an average saiyan.

And just for the record, is not like I hate Bardock, I like the guy.

[Fionordequester]

And probably you guys will disagree with me, but I think they give essentially everything to him. The only thing he didn't have is the power to defeat Freeza, but he's still too powerful comparing to an average saiyan.

What about Zarbon & Dodoria?

[Sadala Elite]

- That's a stupid argument, because Bardock still got the ability in a way that literally anyone could get it, not a way that makes him special.

- Its a legit point about Goku

- So you can't prove it wrong?

- The DBS Broly film never even hints at King Vegeta turning against Freeza, but in the Z version we actually see King Vegeta go against Freeza.

- We dont know what Bardock's PL was before the Zenkai, so you can't say if it was too big or not.

But that the thing, anyone could have the ability but who have it in the end? Bardock. Also, again I said nothing about Goku, if you think that he is a Gary Stu, ok then. About your third sentence, actually I don't know if I can prove it wrong, it's just my opinion. About the film, again we don't know what happened, so we are in the realm of possibilities. And I can say the PL is too big, of course. He is(?) a low-class, so his PL was low before.

...this is fun, I wonder how far this will go.

You're still missing the main point smh.

- The fact that literally any other character could have got it in the same way means its not a Sue trait. Simple logic bro.

- If we don't see nor even hear about other characters turning against Freeza on screen, then we have every reason to assume that they didn't. Its called show don't tell.

- His 10000 PL made zero impact on the events of the story. Even if he had a PL of 20000 nothing would have changed in the movie, which logically means it isnt a Sue trait. Its only real purpose narratively is to reinforce Freeza's fear of the Saiyans.

[Sadala Elite]

Yeah, in Heroes and Xenoverse he is powerful as hell

And probably you guys will disagree with me, but I think they give essentially everything to him. The only thing he didn't have is the power to defeat Freeza, but he's still too powerful comparing to an average saiyan.

And just for the record, is not like I hate Bardock, I like the guy.

- Its Heroes. Literally every Saiyan character is wanked in those games, especially Broly and the Fusions.

- The only thing that was "given" to Bardock in the 90s film was the future-seeing powers, which are practically useless and only exist make him feel to horror of his end.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I'm gonna dissent and say I actually liked Bardock throwing off all those Freeza soldiers. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense in story and it does look a little silly but it's really evocative of the old epics. Which, for me at least, helped reinforce a lot of the tragic nature of the story. Bardock really felt like an old Greek hero with his disregard for life, his selective concern for his comrades, his titanic ego, and his refusal to do the rational thing every step of the way.

[Cure Dragon 255]

So my cute and fun topic ends like this. One sole member taking over the entire thread. SAD.


I know you guys are having an interesting conversation but please try to not take over the thread like this.

Also I didnt think that Bardock is a Mary Sue...until I realized he is an Original Character (And this time you REALLY cant steal because he is a Toei official OC) inserted into the story of Dragon Ball.

[Sadala Elite]

So my cute and fun topic ends like this. One sole member taking over the entire thread. SAD.


I know you guys are having an interesting conversation but please try to not take over the thread like this.

Also I didnt think that Bardock is a Mary Sue...until I realized he is an Original Character (And this time you REALLY cant steal because he is a Toei official OC) inserted into the story of Dragon Ball.

By that same "logic", every DB character that wasn't created by Toriyama is a Mary-Sue. It makes no sense.

And being an OC doesn't automatically make a character a Sue either.

[Grimlock]

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense in story and it does look a little silly

How it doesn't make sense? If anything, that scene does justify Bardock having a power level close to ten thousand. It was him against what? A bunch of around-1,000-power-level soldiers?

Also, that scene is anything but silly. One of the issues is Dragon Ball Super Broly not showing it. But seeing as how there were a lot of people just like it was in the TV Special, it seems the same happened there.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

How it doesn't make sense? If anything, that scene does justify Bardock having a power level close to ten thousand. It was him against what? A bunch of around-1,000-power-level soldiers?

Also, that scene is anything but silly. One of the issues is Dragon Ball Super Broly not showing it. But seeing as how there were a lot of people just like it was in the TV Special, it seems the same happened there.

You have a bunch of air breathing life forms talking and generally existing in the vacuum of space.

[Kid Buu]

Obviously the Tori-bot, since it is literally an insert for Toriyama.

[Grimlock]

You have a bunch of air breathing life forms talking and generally existing in the vacuum of space.

No, you just have Bardock. We don't know if all the others around need air and/or if they are capable of breathing in the vacuum of space. Not that Bardock was in the vacuum of space either. He was probably as close to the planet as Goku was when he fought Beerus.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

You have a bunch of air breathing life forms talking and generally existing in the vacuum of space.

No, you just have Bardock. We don't know if all the others around need air and/or if they are capable of breathing in the vacuum of space. Not that Bardock was in the vacuum of space either. He was probably as close to the planet as Goku was when he fought Beerus.

I don't buy that. He's a few hundred yards from Freeza's ship which is in orbit around Vegeta. And the Namek Arc implies that Freeza's ability to survive in the vacuum of space is a rare ability.

[Sadala Elite]

How it doesn't make sense? If anything, that scene does justify Bardock having a power level close to ten thousand. It was him against what? A bunch of around-1,000-power-level soldiers?

Also, that scene is anything but silly. One of the issues is Dragon Ball Super Broly not showing it. But seeing as how there were a lot of people just like it was in the TV Special, it seems the same happened there.

You have a bunch of air breathing life forms talking and generally existing in the vacuum of space.

They could be from alien species that could survive in space, and notion that Saiyans and most other species can't breathe in space wasn't officially established until near the end of the Namek arc (the Bardock film came out months earlier than that.)

[SSJgogeto]

What about Zarbon & Dodoria?

Technically the Oozaru can kill both and some of GF members... but I get what you're saying. Still, Bardock is arguabily the most powerful saiyan at that time.

So my cute and fun topic ends like this. One sole member taking over the entire thread. SAD.

Yeah, sorry about that.

You're still missing the main point smh.

- The fact that literally any other character could have got it in the same way means its not a Sue trait. Simple logic bro.

- His 10000 PL made zero impact on the events of the story. Even if he had a PL of 20000 nothing would have changed in the movie, which logically means it isnt a Sue trait. Its only real purpose narratively is to reinforce Freeza's fear of the Saiyans.

I can answer almost all your phrases at the same time: it's never about one thing making Bardock a Gary Sue, but about the whole package, from the things that "anyone could have" from some unnecessary things.

- If we don't see nor even hear about other characters turning against Freeza on screen, then we have every reason to assume that they didn't. Its called show don't tell.

But the possibility is still there.

[Grimlock]

I don't buy that. He's a few hundred yards from Freeza's ship which is in orbit around Vegeta. And the Namek Arc implies that Freeza's ability to survive in the vacuum of space is a rare ability.

And what about Goku? Do you buy him going to the Moon to leave Carrot there?