"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Why would Beerus ever give a damn about the planets he destroyed or let others destroy? It would be extremely OOC if he wished any planet back to life.

Yeah that makes no sense. Why would give Beerus care? If he's fine with someone destroying them and their populations he wouldn't care to revive them. Not unless there's so weirdly specific selfish reason to do so. And even then, it'd be pretty hard to write while staying true to Beerus's egoistic and selfish character. Only reason he'd do it is for food or something, and even then, why would he even bother if he was complacent with their destruction? He'd probably just assume they didn't have good food and shrug it off.

How would you write this while staying true to Beerus being an asshole god?

Beerus is an incompetent asshole, I think we should acknowledge that part of his character ain't changing, at least not anytime soon. Beerus's asshole character and him not doing his job is how threats like Moro exist, and we know that the writers aren't going to let that trait go as long as it offers Goku and Vegeta foes to fight in the near and distant future. Even if the entire Universe gets fucked due to how these threats are allowed to rampage, as long as our favorite duo get opponents, the series gets to continue.

[Akyon]

Why was Beerus on the chopping block again? Low mortal count.

Easiest solution is to just wish the mortals back so he's never in the position of erasure that got him into the ToP situation in the first place ever again. The top four universes didn't even have to compete or risk erasure, so there's a tempting thing right there.

"I don't want to risk being erased ever again. That useless idiot Shin's too slow to create new life. What's the quickest fix that requires the least effort on my part? Have Whis and Champa gather the balls for me...Champa owes me a favour after we wished him back, after all."

Disagree with me if you want, but not wanting to be personally erased, and taking the easy and incredibly lazy quick fix, fits well within Beerus' personality IMO. A good deed done for purely selfish asshole reasons. He doesn't even have to move to gather the balls since he can just bully Champa into doing Universe 6's and have Whis fetch his universes ones.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Why was Beerus on the chopping block again? Low mortal count.

Easiest solution is to just wish the mortals back so he's never in the position of erasure that got him into the ToP situation in the first place ever again. The top four universes didn't even have to compete or risk erasure, so there's a tempting thing right there.

"I don't want to risk being erased ever again. That useless idiot Shin's too slow to create new life. What's the quickest fix that requires the least effort on my part? Have Whis and Champa gather the balls for me...Champa owes me a favour after we wished him back, after all."

Disagree with me if you want, but not wanting to be personally erased, and taking the easy and incredibly lazy quick fix, fits well within Beerus' personality IMO. A good deed done for purely selfish asshole reasons. He doesn't even have to move to gather the balls since he can just bully Champa into doing Universe 6's and have Whis fetch his universes ones.

As much as that would make sense, that would Beerus to actually have a working sense of foresight. Something that he lacks because of how much of an incompetent asshole he is. Though that can easily cause problems as wishing back a bunch of dead mortals could introduce new threats and keep the plot going. Moro's little planet feast is bound to cause problems and having someone do something about it would be amusing to see.. I can see where you're coming from Akyon, but we know that Beerus isn't the type to think this stuff through.

Beerus's first concern is self preservation at all costs, while it would make sense, I doubt the writers would do this because status quo is god. They wouldn't want Beerus to actually do something now can they when they can just have Goku and Vegeta foot the bill of Beerus's incompetence?

This is the Goku and Vegeta show, we can't have jerkass gods actually do something of use for once in their lives.

[Akyon]

As much as that would make sense, that would Beerus to actually have a working sense of foresight. Something that he lacks because of how much of an incompetent asshole he is. Though that can easily cause problems as wishing back a bunch of dead mortals could introduce new threats and keep the plot going. Moro's little planet feast is bound to cause problems and having someone do something about it would be amusing to see.. I can see where you're coming from Akyon, but we know that Beerus isn't the type to think this stuff through.

Beerus's first concern is self preservation at all costs, while it would make sense, I doubt the writers would do this because status quo is god. They wouldn't want Beerus to actually do something now can they when they can just have Goku and Vegeta foot the bill of Beerus's incompetence?

This is the Goku and Vegeta show, we can't have jerkass gods actually do something of use for once in their lives.

This is a fair point with the status quo and Beerus simply not learning anything. Glad you at least saw where I was coming from though with the self preservation mindset.

It's a real shame because Beerus really has become quite stagnant as a character of recent with only a handful of "food" and "not my problem" gags as his routine.

[The Undying]

Why was Beerus on the chopping block again? Low mortal count.

Do you guys understand the premise of the Tournament of Power?

The whole point of them winning that competition is so they're not on the chopping block in the foreseeable future (which, for story purposes, is all that matters). Beerus understands this. Zeno understands this. El Grande Padre understands this.

They were promised exemption, they were granted exemption.

Beerus has no in-character reason to give two shits about his universe's mortal level if it's not directly putting him in harm's way.

[Akyon]

Why was Beerus on the chopping block again? Low mortal count.

Do you guys understand the premise of the Tournament of Power?

The whole point of them winning that competition is so they're not on the chopping block in the foreseeable future (which, for story purposes, is all that matters). Beerus understands this. Zeno understands this. El Grande Padre understands this.

They were promised exemption, they were granted exemption.

Beerus has no in-character reason to give two shits about his universe's mortal level if it's not directly putting him in harm's way.

What's to stop it from happening again though, especially since the original issue was Zeno just found too many universes a pain to try and manage?

With Universe 7 wishing every other universe back, Zeno's gripe hasn't changed and the problem remains the same.

[emperior]

The mortal level doesn’t depend on the quantity of mortals but on the quality. Wishing back scumbags like the Saiyans would only lower the mortal level.
Which is not even important anymore considering how the universes were spared.

One thing I forgot though is that Champa owes Beerus two favours. And he notoriously always collects the Super DBs considering he already had a few by the time they decided to hold the Tournament of Power.
I wonder if in future stories Champa will be the one making a selfless wish to help Beerus and U7 somehow.

[The Undying]

What's to stop it from happening again though, especially since the original issue was Zeno just found too many universes a pain to try and manage?

Any of the universes, even the better ones, can be erased at any time for any reason. They're all powerless to stop it. That's not important.

The important bit here is that Zeno originally planned to phase out all of the lower-ranking universes until he was convinced to hold a tournament for fun, giving the victor the Super Dragon Balls and their universe's immunity as a reward. I doubt they'd arbitrarily go back on their word now, but if they did, that makes them untrustworthy. If they're untrustworthy, it's even more doubtful anyone could have prevented it.

There is no "problem". The problem was fixed in the previous arc.

Moreover, as we all well know, mortal levels aren't determined by a universe's population. It's about quality, not quantity. There's little to no guarantee that bringing back any of these planets would have secured Universe 7 a higher position in the first place.

[Grimlock]

Why? It’s referring to standard planets, not ones with intelligent life forms.

More like referring to all kinds of planets. Pretty sure too many life forms would be a problem too.

Anyway, I said that because despite that Toriyama's line from 2013, we in 2020 still haven't seen them doing their jobs. No gods increasing number of planets, no gods destroying them, and no Universe in balance. Kinda sad.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I mean It's Zeno....I wouldn't trust Zeno with a paper airplane. Zeno bases what to do off his own damn entertainment, he makes the rules cause who the fuck is gonna stop him? He makes the rules and bends and enforces them at will. He can easily decide to do whatever he wants with the universe in the blink of an eye. He's a god with the mind of a child, appeasing him is the best you can do and you have to pray he doesn't get bored and erase you.

He can change his mind with the drop of the hat, as long as the idea is fun and entertaining for him to watch. Who knows, maybe in a future arc Zeno's childish nature will be at play again.

[Tai Lung]

Beerus is perfectly in character in this arc.

He’s acting exactly like Toriyama said he does. It should already be obvious considering how Beerus was written in Broly, where he couldn’t bother lift his ass when the threat was behind the corner. And Toriyama is supervising the manga and helped with the story in some parts, so he must be fine with how Beerus has been portrayed this arc.

To those who still will argue the contrary, here’s what Toriyama had to say about how Beerus does his job:
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... yama-2013/

“In order to provide a balance to the constantly increasing number of planets, the God of Destruction destroys [them], but he does not act on Kaiōshin’s orders; he destroys according to his own individual judgment. Except, he is capricious, so he will destroy even an important world without a second thought, or when he finds it bothersome, let someone else act as an agent of destruction.”

what is criticized is precisely that his way of being has not changed ... a character that has no development ... he is only more despicable each time

what you don't understand is that the problem remains the same ...

You're missing the point. The "problem" was resolved 17 chapters ago.

Mortal levels aren't some ongoing narrative dilemma. They're a plot device exclusively designed for the previous arc, setting up the circumstances behind our heroes' impending doom while also illustrating that our heroes, as mortals, were the only ones actually qualified to improve the state of the universe.

You might notice this all stopped being a pressing issue when the Grand Priest honored 17's wish to bring everybody back, despite their already-questionable mortal levels. It's not an immediate problem. It hasn't been mentioned since.

The current arc is about a criminal eating energy for snacks and busting up planets, not near-omnipotent beings threatening nearly all of existence because the gods failed to satisfy some quota. Moro poses nothing but convenience for a character that literally bases all of his decisions on convenience, with any indirect problems nullified by the fact that Beerus and foresight go together about as well as oil and water.

This is all perfectly in line with how these guys behave. Pay attention to the story you're criticizing.

if moro kills everyone on planet earth would it still not affect U7?
so is it not open to criticism that a character does not do his work?
It's basically like saying that you can't criticize Shin for not killing Frieza when his work is affected by him.

my point was that beerus should be more concerned taking into account ... that although he went up in the ranking his universe is still in danger but anyway ... I don't think you understand

[Miracles]

that does not raise the number of mortals

...which specifically tells you, the audience, that mortal levels aren't strictly determined by "number of mortals" and are instead a qualitative measurement.

This ain't rocket science.

That's right. In chapter 30, Grand priest talked about the mortal level quality. Beerus asked Whis if universe 7 was really "that weak?" Whis said universe 7's ratings among mortals is 3.18. The second lowest among the universes. Which has an average rating of 7.

[Akyon]

Incidentally were there any guidelines as to what the mortal quality refers to?

Beerus's line seems to infer something about strength but I find it hard to believe it can be exclusively that as the universes placed above universe 7(all but Universe 9) are mostly filled with fighters that pale in comparison to U7's team.

[Miracles]

Incidentally were there any guidelines as to what the mortal quality refers to?

Beerus's line seems to infer something about strength but I find it hard to believe it can be exclusively that as the universes placed above universe 7(all but Universe 9) are mostly filled with fighters that pale in comparison to U7's team.

It started with the Grand Priest himself stating that the "weaker universes" will be wiped out. Beerus follows up with questioning Whis about their universe being "that weak." Whis then says yes, their mortal's level is around 3.18. Which is second to last in all the universes. Then Beerus scolds Shin for always babbling about becoming a planet with "high level humans."

Whatever the case may be it is referring to some type of human ability. Possibly overall ability of the humans. But it isn't about the number of humans.

[WittyUsername]

I kind of assumed that the “weaker universe equals lower rank” thing was just a mistranslation. Even in the case of the manga, it was stated that Universe 7 went up a rank after #17 made his wish to bring back all the erased universes. That makes it sound like selflessness and virtue are factors in determining a universe’s rank.

[Miracles]

Universe 7 did win a tournament based on fighting. No surprise universe 7's mortal rank would jump up.

[WittyUsername]

Universe 7 did win a tournament based on fighting. No surprise universe 7's mortal rank would jump up.

If them winning the tournament was the catalyst for their rank going up, why’d they only move up one spot? Besides, Universe 2 was the second highest ranking universe in the tournament, but none of their fighters seemed particularly strong.

[Miracles]

Universe 7 did win a tournament based on fighting. No surprise universe 7's mortal rank would jump up.

If them winning the tournament was the catalyst for their rank going up, why’d they only move up one spot? Besides, Universe 2 was the second highest ranking universe in the tournament, but none of their fighters seemed particularly strong.

Don't know. However, the fact is, the rankings are based on mortal ability, not numbers.

[WittyUsername]

Universe 7 did win a tournament based on fighting. No surprise universe 7's mortal rank would jump up.

If them winning the tournament was the catalyst for their rank going up, why’d they only move up one spot? Besides, Universe 2 was the second highest ranking universe in the tournament, but none of their fighters seemed particularly strong.

Don't know. However, the fact is, the rankings are based on mortal ability, not numbers.

I never said they were based on numbers, but by all accounts, they don’t appear to necessarily be based on strength either. A large part of it seems to be based on the quality of life in the universe. That’s why Universe 9, which is the lowest ranking universe, is depicted as a nightmarish hellscape.

[Miracles]

If them winning the tournament was the catalyst for their rank going up, why’d they only move up one spot? Besides, Universe 2 was the second highest ranking universe in the tournament, but none of their fighters seemed particularly strong.

Don't know. However, the fact is, the rankings are based on mortal ability, not numbers.

I never said they were based on numbers, but by all accounts, they don’t appear to necessarily be based on strength either. A large part of it seems to be based on the quality of life in the universe. That’s why Universe 9, which is the lowest ranking universe, is depicted as a nightmarish hellscape.

Ability is widely used. Could be a result of human life as well, where technology is concerned.
IIRC, U12 boasted top tier product, via time machine, and didn't have to enter the TOP?