Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[WittyUsername]

Toriyama can create another villain from scratch. We just had a rerun character last movie.

The past two movies have reused old villains.

Freeza is a central force to DBS story line.
Broly got introduced into the canon for later usage as well.

At the time RF was made, there weren’t any plans to make Freeza a recurring villain, otherwise he wouldn’t have been killed off again at the end of the movie. The movie was made because Toriyama realized how popular Freeza was. Meanwhile, Broly was made because Toriyama was talked into it.

[Dbzfan94]

Dragon Ball fans caring about looking like Disciplined Storymen has become the most creatively bankrupt element of online fandom.

I know this is directed towards me, but I'm just saying they really shoul make someone new instead of another rehash for fanservice.

[Miracles]

The past two movies have reused old villains.

Freeza is a central force to DBS story line.
Broly got introduced into the canon for later usage as well.

At the time RF was made, there weren’t any plans to make Freeza a recurring villain, otherwise he wouldn’t have been killed off again at the end of the movie. The movie was made because Toriyama realized how popular Freeza was. Meanwhile, Broly was made because Toriyama was talked into it.

You know what...You're right, lol. Captain Blue could be the next villain again in the upcoming movie.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball fans caring about looking like Disciplined Storymen has become the most creatively bankrupt element of online fandom.

I know this is directed towards me, but I'm just saying they really shoul make someone new instead of another rehash for fanservice.

Oh, it's directed at more than just one person. It's a general sentiment I see a lot of and I've just gotten really bored by the idea that one is inherently better than the other.

[WittyUsername]

I will say this, while I’m not exactly fond of how reliant on fanservice and nostalgia modern Dragon Ball is, after a couple of years of thinking about it, I do think there could be some potential in Cooler becoming “canon”. Since Freeza is now a recurring villain, they could potentially get some mileage out of actually showing us the sibling rivalry between these two, which is something that Movie 5 only hinted at.

It’s been established that Freeza is a naturally gifted fighter who was handed his father’s empire, so Cooler could be established as the black sheep of the family who wasn’t born strong like Freeza, and thus, was rejected by Cold, kind of like what happened with Tarble. Maybe Cooler could try to kill Freeza and take over his empire, which would prompt Freeza to seek out help from Goku.

[Grimlock]

If there's anything related to Freeza to be explored that I'd like to see (other than Cooler from the movies, using the alternate dimension concept that has already been established, so use that) is Kuriza. Use him instead of merely coming up with counterparts. Instead of Broly, Onio. It would be way more interesting.

[JulieYBM]

I will say this, while I’m not exactly fond of how reliant on fanservice and nostalgia modern Dragon Ball is, after a couple of years of thinking about it, I do think there could be some potential in Cooler becoming “canon”. Since Freeza is now a recurring villain, they could potentially get some mileage out of actually showing us the sibling rivalry between these two, which is something that Movie 5 only hinted at.

It’s been established that Freeza is a naturally gifted fighter who was handed his father’s empire, so Cooler could be established as the black sheep of the family who wasn’t born strong like Freeza, and thus, was rejected by Cold, kind of like what happened with Tarble. Maybe Cooler could try to kill Freeza and take over his empire, which would prompt Freeza to seek out help from Goku.

The first scene being Freeza's planet being invaded by Coola's army, Coola injuring Freeza and driving him to Earth pretty much writes itself.

[emperior]

Cooler being the reject of Freeza’s family could work. Especially if it turned out that Cold casted him aside as he considered him worthless due to his Battle Power being low and him also not having an ounce of cruelty.
“Survive and get stronger and evil, or perish”.

To make his absence all these years believable, I would come up with the excuse that he spent most of his life training and fighting all throughout the universes, and because he was basically talentless, it took him years upon years to unlock a new form and reach a lever of power he felt was finally enough to beat Freeza.

In that case I would like to have the movie’s focus being talent vs hard work.
Stuff would happen and eventually Cooler would end up fighting Goku. He would first mistakenly assume Goku was born as a gifted warrior, because he beat Freeza. But throughout their fight he would realize that behind Goku’s fists there are years upon years of hard work, and eventually Cooler would learn the joy of fighting.
Goku would then defeat him and convince him to stop chasing after his brother, by teaching him that in the world there’s always someone stronger out there and that, in fact, there are a lot of guys around all the universes which are probably even stronger than Goku is.
Jaco would then recognize Cooler as the vigilante who helped the GP catch a lot of criminals, as it would turn out that Cooler never killed those he fought, and convince him to join the Galactic Patrol as they need strong guys after Merus left.
I think Cooler joining the GP would fit quite well with his design.

[Dbzfan94]

Dragon Ball fans caring about looking like Disciplined Storymen has become the most creatively bankrupt element of online fandom.

I know this is directed towards me, but I'm just saying they really shoul make someone new instead of another rehash for fanservice.

Oh, it's directed at more than just one person. It's a general sentiment I see a lot of and I've just gotten really bored by the idea that one is inherently better than the other.

Rehashing and making stuff for fanservice isn’t inherently bad, just want to see something new for a change.

[Matches Malone]

Serious question; how would people react if the next movie were to bring in Cooler?

I think Cooler being introduced is a matter of when, not if. My reaction would be the same as it was when Broly was announced, I wished it was something original, but I would be happy if it was still good. Thankfully it was good. Freeza's reaction to fusion implies that he'd like to try it, so I think theres a chance they were thinking about Cooler while writing Broly.

[Noah]

They really should move on the Freeza subject, yea I know central figure o DB lore and blah, blah, blah... But give him another role, don't have things centered on his puny revenge against the Saiyans anymore for the F's sake

[Grimlock]

Freeza does have a new role, though. He is now your every Saturday morning "villain". Isn't that a great and totally suitable role for him?

His first attempt was Broly, let's wait until next Saturday to see his next mischievous attempt and who he's gonna bring along.

[JulieYBM]

Freeza and Blooma go for manicures. Come on, this is rock solid shit.

[Matches Malone]

Freeza does have a new role, though. He is now your every Saturday morning "villain". Isn't that a great and totally suitable role for him?

It's amazing how different he's become from his Namek days. If Namek's Freeza wanted to be taller than everyone, he'd cut their legs off instead of wasting a wish on making himself taller.

They really should move on the Freeza subject, give him another role, don't have things centered on his puny revenge against the Saiyans anymore for the F's sake

The problem is their obsession with nostalgia and status quo. The idea of moving Freeza out of his safe zone is something they'll never consider, much less attempt.

[emperior]

The problem is their obsession with nostalgia and status quo. The idea of moving Freeza out of his safe zone is something they'll never consider, much less attempt.

Weird, because I remember an entire Tournament where Freeza was in a completely new situation and even had to collaborate with his teammates to ensure his survival. That was not Freeza’s safe zone at all considering he had to team-up with Goku himself to achieve that.

Even the fact Freeza has stated he wants to be 5cm taller is going against nostalgia and status quo. It’s a different twist on an old character. The fans being so mad at it is the proof of this.
Yet here you are complaining about how “Freeza has changed” “he’s a now a Saturday morning villain”. Just to then say “modern DB doesn’t try new things, it’s all status qu”. There’s really no pleasing with you guys.

I actually believe modern Freeza to be one of the best things we have gotten out of the franchise’s revival. And I am not talking about RoF Freeza which is classic Freeza, but of the slightly changed (for the better) one we have seen ever since Goku decided to bring him to the Tournament of Power.

By the way Freeza’s no more of a Saturday morning villain than he was when he sat on his chair giving orders to Zarbon, Dodoria and the Ginyu Force.
It’s just that now he can’t just go and kill Goku and Vegeta because they are on his same level but have the advantage of being 2. Even Freeza acknowledged it himself.

[Matches Malone]

I remember an entire Tournament where Freeza was in a completely new situation and even had to collaborate with his teammates to ensure his survival. That was not Freeza’s safe zone at all considering he had to team-up with Goku himself to achieve that.

I want more of that, which is why I was excited for his inclusion in Broly. I just hope the remaining of his time in the story isn't limited to "I want revenge", as that'll get old pretty fast. He tried that in RF and it blew up in his face, so hopefully he moves on from it. One thing I'd like to see is him follow up on his desire to overthrow Zeno.

[emperior]

I remember an entire Tournament where Freeza was in a completely new situation and even had to collaborate with his teammates to ensure his survival. That was not Freeza’s safe zone at all considering he had to team-up with Goku himself to achieve that.

I want more of that, which is why I was excited for his inclusion in Broly. I just hope the remaining of his time in the story isn't limited to "I want revenge", as that'll get old pretty fast. He tried that in RF and it blew up in his face, so hopefully he moves on from it. One thing I'd like to see is him follow up on his desire to overthrow Zeno.

Yes, that’s indeed one very interesting thing I hope they will expand upon.

[Grimlock]

It's amazing how different he's become from his Namek days. If Namek's Freeza wanted to be taller than everyone, he'd cut their legs off instead of wasting a wish on making himself taller.

Exactly. That's what you get when you mess with someone who had their development and personality completed. Freeza's role was kind of and arguably good during Universe Survival saga, but at what cost? At Movie 15 clusterfuck, his sudden and moronic wish to get taller for whatever reason and him becoming a recurrent character who will keep doing attempts to annoy the characters on Earth, he himself said "he would be back". Do we really need to put up with all this just so we can luckily get an interesting take very occasionally?

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball is for all intents and purposes not some sort of short art piece. Dragon Ball is a infinite cour series, one meant to continue into perpetuity ala Shin-chan, Doraemon or Sazae-san. The issue is that criticism is still being lobbied at it under the false notion that Dragon Ball is somehow a one-and-done that ran for six months in 1984-1985 and then ended. That's not true. Dragon Ball is now the series where main characters constantly shift through plot while otherwise maintaining their core, marketable traits, with story mined from those traits as well as based in a metacontext as being against the traits of a character. This is why I've been throwing out ideas like "Freeza becomes Blooma's friend" because why not, the series is going to continue and we might as well see these characters interact in contexts that would be interesting, wild and varied.

Scholars greater than me have made this point a thousand times and I will now repeat it myself here: Japanese characters are meant to be placed in any kind of scene with recognizable reactions and dialogue extrapolated from their general personality and history quirks. This is why Shin Seiki Evangelion has so many different official works that place the characters in different contexts or why we see self-published fan comics at events like the Comic Market not only explode in numbers but in general, unofficial approval and nods. 'The character' as a concept belongs to endless parody and remixing through doujinshi, illustrations, fan film, goods and more.

[Matches Malone]

Do we really need to put up with all this just so we can luckily get an interesting take very occasionally?

He's here to stay, so all we can do is hope the next time we see him he's actually doing something interesting, and not being used for laughs. When Freeza's on screen, we should be shaking, not laughing. They've shown that they can do new things with him, as seen in the TOP, so hopefully we get more of that, and less of whatever it is he was in Broly.