Unpopular DB opinions

[Rory]

Since that SS2 thread just got bumped, and it's an appreciation thread, I felt it more appropriate to post this here: I don't like SS2. Well it's a bit more complicated than that, mainly I don't like the handling of it, and the consequences this handling had on the series moving forward. It was great as Gohan's finale form to the Cell arc and the idea that other Saiyans could catch up and attain the form is fine too, however it really should've replaced their Super Saiyan form, as it is now, it works as a form you can also transform into if you choose? I think the idea of having various levels of Super Saiyan that you pick from a video game menu in your head was a real shark jumping moment for the series.

I think something really subjective, is that I can't place myself into the characters shoes, and distinguish the two forms. Lance/MistareFusion said something that really effected me a while back, discussing the battle between Gokuu and Freeza, I'll paraphrase but basically they said that they could no longer associate with the kind of fighting that was going on, the spectacle was too out-there, whereas before they could associate with the broken bones, and bruises the characters were taking during the earlier fights.
I think it's a similar thing here. Gokuu described the steps you need to go through, mentally, to achieve the form and what he does in order to activate it. Gotcha, I obviously won't know the feeling he's describing but I can conceptualise it based on this...what the hell do you need to do to go into the second form after you activate it for the first time? It was activated by Gohan by going through the same stuff Gokuu went through in order to go Super Saiayn... so what's different? Do you need to get more pissed off than usual? Or just get pissed off and power a bit more elbow grease into it (whatever the fuck that means)?

This has obviously gone to a ridiculous level at this point (how does Goku not accidentally go SS3 instead of SSG every now and then, unless, again, there's a floating Final Fantasy battle menu in his brain he picks his forms from, which is what it feels like).

[ABED]

This probably not unpopular, but I feel like to share it:

I would enjoy ToP more if the tournament format was like the Dark Tournament arc from YuYu Haksuho, this is having 10 vs. 10 people matches, that could be changed to either 2 vs. 2, 5 vs. 5 or 1 vs. 10 if the universes feel like it. That could explore the characters better and Jiren defeating a whole universe team by himself, would be much more hype for his character.

Except it's still the single elimination bracket format, just with teams.

[Noah]

Except it's still the single elimination bracket format, just with teams.

So?

[ABED]

Except it's still the single elimination bracket format, just with teams.

So?

It's been done plenty of times. The battle royal nature of the tournament of power was different for DB and in no way hindered the sort of development you are talking about. In fact, much of the time, the battles came down to one on one fights. If you don't think the characters were sufficiently explored, fine, but it wasn't the format of the tournament that was the root. There was nothing stopping the tournaments from teaming up like you are talking about.

[Witty User Name]

I actually really enjoy DB Kai (Kai 1.0 anyway) and I think the manga is really, and I mean VASTLY, superior to the anime.

[PremiumSalt]

If Dragon Ball Super: Broly had the same artstyle and animation quality as BoG and RoF, it'd be considered a mid-tier movie. It's good, but it's not that good.

[ABED]

If Dragon Ball Super: Broly had the same artstyle and animation quality as BoG and RoF, it'd be considered a mid-tier movie. It's good, but it's not that good.

Agreed. I think people place way too much importance on the visuals. Yes, film and TV mediums are visual mediums but it's visual STORYTELLING, not VISUAL storytelling.

[Matches Malone]

I think Kai's Buu arc is vastly over hated. I understand people who didn't like Kai 1.0 not liking it, but if you like 1.0, 2.0 isn't that different. Sure it has a green tint, but Kai 1.0 has those re-drawn scenes. 2.0 could've cut out more filler, but so could've 1.0. 2.0's music may not be that great, but neither is 1.0's replacement. I just don't understand why some treat 1.0 as a 10/10 show while 2.0 as a 0, when both aren't that far apart.

If Dragon Ball Super: Broly had the same artstyle and animation quality as BoG and RoF, it'd be considered a mid-tier movie. It's good, but it's not that good.

100% agree. Its story isn't bad by any means, but it's clear that the visuals are what hold the movie together. BOG is the opposite, its production wasn't anything to write home about, but its story is what kept people invested. Poor RF has neither great production nor a great story. It'll be interesting to see what the new movie does, as relying on its visuals won't work like last time due to fans now used to that kind of production thanks to Broly, so they're going to have to step it up in the writing department.

[Scsigs]

I actually really enjoy DB Kai (Kai 1.0 anyway) and I think the manga is really, and I mean VASTLY, superior to the anime.

I don't get any hate Kai receives AT ALL! It trims a LOT of the fat of the original Z anime, gives it a decent remaster (minus some obviously rotoscoped shots that aren't done too well), & the English dub is hands-down one of the best ever produced. To this day, it's also the only remaster of the show I'm fine with anyone watching. It's not perfect, but it's a perfectly watchable version of the show.

I think Kai's Buu arc is vastly over hated. I understand people who didn't like Kai 1.0 not liking it, but if you like 1.0, 2.0 isn't that different. Sure it has a green tint, but Kai 1.0 has those re-drawn scenes. 2.0 could've cut out more filler, but so could've 1.0. 2.0's music may not be that great, but neither is 1.0's replacement. I just don't understand why some treat 1.0 as a 10/10 show while 2.0 as a 0, when both aren't that far apart.

I feel like the only people who hate 1.0 are Z dub fans & Mexican fans (since their dub had an entirely different cast) while most everyone else either is fine with it or really likes it, tbh.
2.0 I only hate partly for the forced cropping & not cutting the Hell scenes, since they break the internal continuity of the recut because Hell was cut out of 1.0 & Res F & Super show Hell to be something else entirely. There's also the fact that it unfortunately retains the break of continuity that Z had by them retaining Piccolo explaining what would happen to Vegeta when he dies at the same time of maintaining the Hell of earlier in Z. The music isn't bad, but some of the early placements & compositions are questionable for DBZ.
The dub, though, 10/10 still. There are no mistranslations, the acting & direction are still on-point, & I love every second of it like 1.0.

There are nitpicks & legit criticisms you can levy against Kai, but it's not straight-up awful like some people claim.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Hey! "Mexican"(Latin Americans) LOVED Kai 2.0. Sure it was because the old cast came back but still!

[Scsigs]

Hey! "Mexican"(Latin Americans) LOVED Kai 2.0. Sure it was because the old cast came back but still!

Did I say you guys hated 2.0? I only mentioned 1.0 there.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I know. But you still tried to frame us for hating Kai 1.0 when we had a very good reason for doing so. If Kai 1.0 had the old cast it would have been beloved.

[WittyUsername]

I think Kai in general didn’t really amount to much. For all the talk about how it was supposed to be closer to the manga, it still kept certain baffling filler scenes in, and I’m not just talking about 2.0. The only thing that really came out of it was a better English dub. Beyond that? It was basically just the same old same old. All things considered, Dragon Ball was still in a dry period at that point, which didn’t really end until BoG.

[Matches Malone]

2.0 I only hate partly for not cutting the Hell scenes, since they break the internal continuity of the recut because Hell was cut out of 1.0 & Res F & Super show Hell to be something else entirely.

I agree that keeping it was unnecessary, but if they were to remove it, they would've had to edit multiple episodes to keep the timing consistent. Would it have been worth all that trouble just for a few seconds of filler ? In terms of it contradicting Hell in Super, I don't hold that against them because it was produced years before Toriyama provided his version of Hell.

[Scsigs]

I know. But you still tried to frame us for hating Kai 1.0 when we had a very good reason for doing so. If Kai 1.0 had the old cast it would have been beloved.

I feel like the only people who hate 1.0 are Z dub fans & Mexican fans (since their dub had an entirely different cast) while most everyone else either is fine with it or really likes it, tbh.

I literally said you guys having an entirely different cast for 1.0 is your reason for hating it...

I mean, maybe it was my wording? I meant that you guys had your cast replaced with other people, but I can't see how you'd confuse that.

[Matches Malone]

The only thing that really came out of it was a better English dub. Beyond that? It was basically just the same old same old.

The pacing is greatly improved as well, cutting things down from 291 episodes to around 165. Watching 291 isn't convenient in this day and age when everything else is fast paced and close to the source material. As much as I want a Kai version of the original DB, at least I can still watch it without any pacing issues, unlike Z where it's a chore to get though.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Ok Ok.You win Scigs. I was just butthurt because I felt you meant to say the cast replacement was a minor thing we should get over. Also the whole "Mexican" thing. There is more than one latin american country.

[Scsigs]

The only thing that really came out of it was a better English dub. Beyond that? It was basically just the same old same old.

The pacing is greatly improved as well, cutting things down from 291 episodes to around 165. Watching 291 isn't convenient in this day and age when everything else is fast paced and close to the source material. As much as I want a Kai version of the original DB, at least I can still watch it without any pacing issues, unlike Z where it's a chore to get though.

I very much agree. Z, as it was produced, is incredibly slow-paced. Like, they were always in danger of catching up the manga, so I understand, but when part of the English dub's problems were that the lines were delivered very slowly a lot of the time because of the pacing, I think that's a problem. Like, I'd rather the series have good pacing like seasons 2 & 3 of DBZA than deliberately slow pacing from needless filler content the animators were forced to make to not catch up with the manga.

Ok Ok.You win Scigs. I was just butthurt because I felt you meant to say the cast replacement was a minor thing we should get over. Also the whole "Mexican" thing. There is more than one latin american country.

True, but wasn't that Spanish dub produced in Mexico? I think that's why I thought it was just Mexican fans who were mad at that dub.

[Cure Dragon 255]

The only thing that really came out of it was a better English dub. Beyond that? It was basically just the same old same old.

The pacing is greatly improved as well, cutting things down from 291 episodes to around 165. Watching 291 isn't convenient in this day and age when everything else is fast paced and close to the source material. As much as I want a Kai version of the original DB, at least I can still watch it without any pacing issues, unlike Z where it's a chore to get though.

I very much agree. Z, as it was produced, is incredibly slow-paced. Like, they were always in danger of catching up the manga, so I understand, but when part of the English dub's problems were that the lines were delivered very slowly a lot of the time because of the pacing, I think that's a problem. Like, I'd rather the series have good pacing like seasons 2 & 3 of DBZA than deliberately slow pacing from needless filler content the animators were forced to make to not catch up with the manga.

Ok Ok.You win Scigs. I was just butthurt because I felt you meant to say the cast replacement was a minor thing we should get over. Also the whole "Mexican" thing. There is more than one latin american country.

True, but wasn't that Spanish dub produced in Mexico? I think that's why I thought it was just Mexican fans who were mad at that dub.

I am utterly speechless. Latin America is a place where DB is not a hobby but almost religion like. AND YOU JUST FOCUS ON MEXICO FORGET ABOUT THE REST OF IT... I am officially butthurt!

LOL.

But really, not being the country where the dub was made doesnt exclude other countries where that dub is heard. Its like saying... USA didnt love the dub back when it was made in Canada. Or Vice versa.

But I love you Scigs. You are cool.

[Matches Malone]

I very much agree. Z, as it was produced, is incredibly slow-paced. Like, they were always in danger of catching up the manga, so I understand, but when part of the English dub's problems were that the lines were delivered very slowly a lot of the time because of the pacing, I think that's a problem.

It's a shame they didn't just produce separate filler arcs like Naruto did instead of stretching out the manga's material to an unnatural length.