Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 20 - DB episode 86-90

[Robo4900]

Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 20 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

Previous thread: Week 19 (DB 81-85)
Next thread: Week 21 (DB 91-95)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 86 - It’s Decided!! The Eight Brave Men
Dub title: Then There Were Eight / The Fight To The Finals!
Originally aired 4th of November 1987
Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa

Goku’s match against King Chapa begins! It seems that even Goku was having a difficult fight, but he brushed King Chapa’s attacks aside like they were nothing and achieved a sweeping victory!! Afterwards, Goku and the others continue to do well at advancing in the preliminaries! And Jackie Chun, the champion of the previous tournament, naturally advances as well! Meanwhile, Tenshinhan cruelly defeats Namu, who had fought against Goku in the semi-finals during the previous tournament! Goku and co. plus Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu thus ended up all participating in the main tournament!

Anime-only/filler content: Expansion of the Chapa-o fight, the 90 minute interval, any scene with Namu in it.

Episode 87 - Showdown!! Yamucha vs Tenshinhan
Dub title: Yamcha vs. Tien
Originally aired 11th of November 1987
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama

A lottery takes place to decide the match opponents out of the eight contestants who have survived into the main tournament. Tenshinhan uses Chiaotzu’s psychic powers to fix the match combinations as he sees fit! Because of this, the first match becomes a match of Yamucha versus Tenshinhan!! Yamucha harbors an extraordinary animosity towards the provocative Tenshinhan! When the match then starts, it becomes a white-hot offensive and defensive battle, with neither side giving an inch!!

Anime-only/filler content: Bulma and Lunch encountering the Crane Hermit, Blue Lunch not remembering her clearing the crowd as Yellow Lunch, Crane making an embarassing description for the missing Roshi, more Crane boasting, the flashback to Inoshi Kacho, expansion of the Yamucha fight during the Wolf Hurricane sequence.

Episode 88 - Go, Yamucha! The Dreadful Tenshinhan
Dub title: Yamcha's Big Break / Yamcha's Broken Dream
Originally aired 18th of November 1987
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Mitsuo Shindo

Yamucha and Tenshinhan violently clash! Yamucha uses the Shin Rōga Fū-Fū Ken against Tenshinhan, but is gradually pushed back and is in a pinch. As his final hand, Yamucha fires a Kamehameha!! But Tenshinhan deflects the Kamehameha and defeats the faltering Yamucha in midair! Furthermore, he strikes the already unconscious Yamucha with a finishing blow! Goku burns with intense anger at the coldhearted Tenshinhan!!

Anime-only/filler content: Expansion of the Yamucha fight at the start of the episode, everything after the Yamucha fight ends.

Episode 89 - Be Afraid!! A Full Moon Grudge
Dub title: Full-Moon Vengeance / Terror! The Grudge Of The Full Moon!
Originally aired 25th of November 1987
Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda

The Man-Wolf, who goes up against Jackie Chun in the second match, seems to harbor a grudge towards Jackie for some reason! The cause of this turns out to be because Jackie destroyed the moon with a Kamehameha in the previous tournament. Since then the Man-Wolf, who transforms into a human when he looks at the moon, has been unable to return to being a human. Jackie handles the Man-Wolf with ease and wins the match!! He then chooses Kuririn’s head to stand in for the moon, and restores the Man-Wolf to being human.

Anime-only/filler content: The first four minutes of the episode, Jackie thinking Man-Wolf is referring to an incident at a party, Jackie showing off for the crowd and impressing Goku, Man-Wolf flashing back to his years of training.

Episode 90 - Nanana!! An Unexpected Dodonpa
Dub title: The Dodon Wave / Wow! The Dodon Wave!
Originally aired 2nd of December 1987
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Tomekichi Takeuchi

The third match becomes a showdown between Kuririn and Chiaotzu! Kuririn is bewildered by Chiaotzu’s strange techniques!! Flying freely through the air, Chiaotzu fires a “Dodonpa“, the same technique used by the assassin Tao Pai-pai! It turns out that Tao Pai-pai is actually Tsuru-Sen’nin’s younger brother!! After learning that Goku defeated Tao Pai-pai, Tsuru-Sen’nin orders Chiaotzu to kill Kuririn! Cornered, Kuririn resolves to using a Kamehameha!!

Anime-only/filler content: The opening scenes with Bulma, Lunch, Turtle and Oolong, and Yamucha at the hospital, more Crane taunting, the flashback to Tao's defeat, Crane's Tao flashback, filler extension in Kuririn's fight, more Crane taunting.

-

Interesting trivia:

• As you may have noticed, this is the first time that episodes depicting a manga storyline start getting a lot of filler expansions, typically by introducing new scenes taking place between fights.
• Half-way through the episode, Yamucha wins a preliminary match, and the announcer says "Fighter #2 wins!", and in another instance where Yamucha wins a match, a 2 on the board advances to the next round... Except Yamucha is fighter #1.
• In episode 86, we hear the return of Mezase Tenkaichi during the preliminary rounds. This time, the Funimation dub didn't remove it. The Blue Water dub replaced it with library music.
• Conversely, towards the end of episode 87, we hear Wolf Hurricane in the Japanese version (sung by Toru Furuya, Yamucha's voice actor, in character as Yamucha), which was mute in both dubs.
• Speaking of dub changes, in the Japanese version of episode 87, the tournament announcer says hello to Goku, Kuririn, Yamucha, and Jackie Chun, recognising them from the previous tournament. Funimation's dub changed this to instead be Goku complimenting the announcer on his suit and him saying thanks. Blue Water correctly rendered the original Japanese intent of this scene.
  • Earlier in the episode, when Chiaotzu makes fun of Kuririn and shows him he has a hair on his head, Tenshinhan puts the hat back on him and tells him to stop goofing around and squabbling. The Funimation dub changed this to Tenshinhan not wanting Chiaotzu to catch a cold. Blue Water rendered the Japanese intent correctly.
  • In the Japanese version of episode 88, Goku excuses himself from the meal at the restaurant to pee. Funimation changed this to him wanting to wash his hands. Blue Water simply has him say "I'll be right back."
  • In episode 88, Jackie suggests Man-Wolf tries dating a wolf girl; he rejects this notion, saying "I hate hairy girls!" Funimation changed this to Jackie asking Man-Wolf to stop talking and continue the fight, which Man-Wolf shouts at him for. Blue Water correctly rendered the original Japanese intent of the scene.
  • Funimation added a line to episode 88 where Yamucha says "This one's for Nam!" before attacking Tenshinhan at one point. I don't know precisely when this happens, so I haven't been able to verify if Blue Water removed it. (I would guess they did, though)
• The gi worn by Man-Wolf is very similar to Goku's starting gi with the bow.
• In Funimation's dub, Man-Wolf originally had a voice effect applied; the "Remastered" dub removed this effect.
• In the manga, the wide shot panel before Yamucha and Tenshinhan fight is re-used for the second half of the Yamucha fight, as well as the Man-Wolf and Panputto fights. This results in some continuity errors due to Bulma and co. not being present in the Man-Wolf fight as they're supposed to be with Yamucha. They were altered for the Panputto fight.
• Daigoro Kurigashira can be seen in the crowd during Yamucha and Tenshinhan's fight.
• In one shot in episode 89, Tenshinhan is drawn without his third eye.

Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, and trivia co-written, by KBABZ.

[ABED]

Anyone else groan whenever they hear or see a bone break in a TV show or movie?

Chaozu not being able to count and not considering himself bald due to his single strand of hair are the most personality he shows pretty much ever. After this, his distinguishing trait that isn't physical is his (platonic?) love for Tenshinhan.

[KBABZ]

Hey everyone! So this isn't the beeeeest place to put this, but I actually went out of my way to watch all of the filler episodes in the Colonel Silver saga and the Worldly Training arc! This is significant because this is the first time I've watched these episodes, either since they originally aired in 2002, or EVER! My thoughts on them are in the spoiler tags below.

Spoiler:

= The Roaming Lake =
- I like Roshi's little daydream about having dinner with Launch, but oddy the Funi dub adds some dialogue over this scene that takes the wholesomeness out of it!
- The Funi dub doesn't bother explaining that Bulma lost the airplane capsule to justify why they have to drive across the desert.
- Interesting, the mailbox on the street is animated alongside Krillin for some reason.
- Oh great, Roshi being a perv, fantastic. Also, Roshi laughing DESPITE being slapped tells you everything you need to know about how this comedy works.
- Kinda wasteful of Nam to spill water right onto the ground, right?
- Good grief they re-used the animation of the pterodactyl RIGHT from the original episode!
- Oolong was kicked out for stealing the teacher's... PAPERS. In the dub. Haha. This is also the first time their time at the training school has been brought up since Episode 5!
- I love Brice Armstong (Rest in Peace), so I can't decide whether I like Funi's silent speech version or the insert song!
- I like how Giran is humiliated still by his defeat to Goku but has enough common sense to give Goku the respect he has earned and tell his people to back off. Not a lot of Dragon Ball villains have that prescience.
- CONTRADICTION TIME! The gang were blown all the way back to South City, but later on the anime will say that the tournament grounds are on Papaya Island!
- I liked this episode. I felt the Bulma and co. stuff was rather frivolous, but I enjoyed the small-scale story as a breather after the involved Tournament. Nothing dramatic, just a simple story!

= Pilaf and the Mystery Force =
- While I realize this is primarily due to my knowledge of later episodes, it's jarring to get the faintest of previews regarding Commander Red and Colonel Silver, knowing that Silver's going to double-back and get a full briefing in a later episode. [Post-viewing note: HAAAAAAAAAAA]
- Goku using the Power Pole command to reveal where the thief is was really clever!
- Huh! A rare instance of Goku telling the Power Pole to RETRACT!
- This episode is the debut of Pilaf's own musical theme!
- The context of the house ransacking is changed a bit in the dub. In the original dialogue it was to make SURE the family didn't have it. In the dub it's punishment for them saying they didn't have it.
- In the dub, the salesman offers the street kid 10 zeni for the Radar in the dub, compared to the original 200. This is likely so that it feels closer to "dollars", and this retroactively means that Roshi's prize money for the 21st TB is now worth $500,000 as opposed to something closer to $4-5,000.
- In the dub the salesman makes a real-world reference by saying the crown belonged to Alexander the Great. In the original dialogue it belonged to a fictional Emperor who created a kingdom in the north 300 years prior.
- I like the use of Goku's sense of smell here, something only really mentioned in the original Pilaf arc.
- Nice pick on the Four Star Ball, Toei! Very appropriate choice there.
- In the Japanese dialogue, the shopkeeper has obviously heard of the Dragon Ball legend. This expands a bit from Bulma seemingly being the only one who knows thanks to the old book.
- I also like the shot panning down from the seagull afterwards, surprisingly subtle foreshadowing!
- In the japanese dialogue, Pilaf says that Goku is the giant monster. In the anime, Pilaf did witness Goku turning back from Oozaru form, a scene not present in the manga.
- It's a small moment, but I like how Nimbus is carrying Goku's things for him.
- In the latter scenes of this episode, the strap around the Dragon Radar is a string rather than a band.
- In the English dub, Silver says the word crap! "It's here somewhere, buried in all this crap".
- I like how most of the episode is Goku and Pilaf fooling around, and then Silver swoops in and cuts all the crap, to show how much of a cunning, no-nonsense villain he is despite hardly featuring in this episode.
- Fairly sure I mentioned this, but Silver's line "A boring conversation anyway" is a Funi reference to the original Star Wars, where Han Solo shoots the communicator and jokingly says how boring the conversation with the Imperial officer was.
- Thus far, the Red Ribbon Army has not yet been named in the anime.

= Wedding Plans? =
- I like Pilaf playing parley with Goku for a bit!
- The Japanese narrator specifically mentions the year gap after Goku and Roshi last visited.
- Ha! Chi-Chi doesn't know what a nupital means! Irony!
- 50mph?! That is one fast bird!
- More irony! Shu disguises himself as Goku, and at the end of this arc, Goku will be going around in his clothes!
- In the Japanese dialogue, Goku remarks that Chi-Chi is pretty strong! Accidental foreshadowing!
- Wait, how do the Pilaf gang know that the Dragon Ball is in the roast pterodactyl??
- The narrator is the first person in the story to name the Red Ribbon Army!
- I like the interaction between Goku and Chi-Chi. While the dub STILL flubs the marriage mistake, I actually like the two enjoying the small talk together at the apple tree.

= The Flying Fortress - Vanished! =
- Shouldn't Goku already know what the fortress is? He saw it literally 22 minutes ago!
- The extremely long shot of the fortress flying over Goku and Chi-Chi might be a reference to the opening shot of Star Wars!
- This is the first time Nimbus' tail has been depicted as something you can grab onto!
- Oh interesting! They have capsule tanks! Very cool with interesting implications!
- I was wondering when Chi-Chi would use her laser again!
- In many sequences the Red Ribbon logos on the RRA planes have been coloured inversely: a white ribbon with red lettering.
- I really like the aerial dogfight, it's not something we ever get from Dragon Ball, even when the characters CAN fly!
- "He'll be back! One day!" Toei don't know it yet, but Chi-Chi will later get the gumption to go get Goku herself!
- In the dub Silver says that a desert is a strange place for a Dragon Ball. Not only is this a very stupid assumption to make given what he should know about how Dragon Balls get to where they are AND that it has been moving for the entire day, but Goku would find one in a desert during the Cell arc too!
- "The radar is accurate" Yeahhhhhhhhh no.
- Wh-... what was with that strange tree-dodging flipping shot??
- Huh, in Simmons' subs, Pilaf calls himself "Great King Pilaf".
- Interesting, they mention a Brown!
- Boy they REALLY like using the Shenron music don't they?
- Huh! In the Funi dialogue, Goku thinks that the robot with him in the metal box is the one who stole them shortly before they entered Pilaf's castle!
- Is the interior of the flying fortress just like his old castle???
- Oooookay, did Pilaf gas the RRA soldiers off-screen??
- Man Goku goes around that corner REALLY slowly doesn't he?

= Legend of a Dragon =
- OH MY GOD SILVER KNOCKED OUT AUSTIN CREED!
- Hooray for extended flashback filler!
- The first three episodes actually do some pretty significant re contextualization of the start of the arc. In the manga Red has always had the Six-Star Ball in his possession. However in the anime the acquisition is shown on-screen as an adventure Goku had. This is a change because the RRA is first to score a victory, not Goku, which makes them more credible as a threat to the world in the mind of the audience.
- I like how Goku is prescient enough to realize the fruit was for the kid, and lets him have it.
- OH NO THE ORIGINAL SABRE-TOOTH FELL IN SOME OIL HOW HORRIBLE!!
- Goddamn do I love OG-DB's music.
- In the Funi dub, Krillin being up to 991 is obscured by him not saying "nine-hundred". The scale of his feat is revealed when Roshi chastises him!
- The anime's dialogue, Japanese or no, is rather confusing. Roshi directly refers to how he couldn't believe his odd orb turned out to be a Dragon Ball, then immediately says that he remembers hearing about the legend once. I think the implication is that Roshi HAD heard of the legend before, but either forgot it or never realized that it would have applied to the orb he carried.
- Huh, never realized Dragon Ball Densetsu played during the legend scene! It makes sense though!
- In the Japanese dialogue, it was the natives who used the Dragon Ball selfishly. In in Funi dub, it was thieves, and THEY were punished by the gods, not the natives.
- The Funi dub also adds another "chosen one" element at the end of the legend. It's heavily implied to be Goku due to the idea that someone will "finally" come with a non-selfish wish.
- I like the small detail that Roshi ate the ice cream all by himself.
- Here Krillin wishes for ultimate strength. He is thus the earliest known character to desire such a wish, before Frieza, Vegeta and even Piccolo Daimao!
- In the Japanese dialogue, Goku points to Silver and says "So you're they're boss?!". But in the Funi dub he says "You're the one who attacked Ox-King's castle!". Unless he's referring to the army as a whole, Goku shouldn't know this because he wasn't around to see Silver attacking the Ox-King's town.
- A very low-key climax here comparatively speaking.

= Cruel General Red =
- While the RRA HQ was depicted incorrectly in the previous episode (being located in a Mount Paozu-like location), in this episode's title card it's correctly located in a much more germanic mountain range. This title card is also the first time the RRA logo is depicted with its proper colours!
- I like what's happened to the Five-Star Ball thus far. It gives a bit of a glimpse as to how a Dragon Ball can move even when someone ISN'T looking for it!
- I also like seeing a bit more of Silver's work tracking the Dragon Ball. It gives some insight into how that works, far more than what we see with General White and Blue later.
- I like how Goku puts the two lazy workers in their place by finding the Dragon Ball within 20 seconds right in front of their faces!
- I love that Goku briefly becomes serious and IMMEDIATELY dispatches of Silver. Very Goku!

= Terror and Plague =
- The dub specifically mentions Goku going... EAST?! West would have worked so well!
- Funi introducing an amusing joke: "Hey do you have lamb chops?" -cut to the village- "Put the lamb chops over there!"
- Wow the blue one has Jeice's voice!
- Making the brothers be like bikers, very interesting design twist.
- I really liked the fight between Goku and the red brother. It's very rare that we get to see a melee weapon fight like that in Dragon Ball, especially from Goku!
- I didn't understand changing the names until Goku rapidy called their names, good grief! It's like a rhythm minigame!
- The White Tree of Gondor!

= Goku vs The Sky Dragon =
- Huh, we get to see Goku's tail grow back!
- I like the wholly asian town we get to see in this episode. As always it's rare to see that sort of thing in Toriyama's world where there's usually a futuristic igloo SOMEWHERE!
- I also like the focus on grounded martial arts, again something Dragon Ball didn't really focus on very much.
- The little kid reminds me a lot of Gohan! And so does the son of the martial arts master!
- A lot of re-use of past character designs!
- I don't really like the ending of the episode regarding Sky Dragon (the one in purple hair). He learns his lesson through defeat entirely off-screen, so he acts out of character to me when he DOESN'T pursue vengeance.
- And so Goku would never use or reference the Rising Star technique ever again!

= Goku Goes to Demon Land =
- Funi really DO like to use Brice's narration, don't they?
- Why would you set a really loud grandfather clock in your own bedroom?!
- Oh man the reality-bending stuff in the bedroom was cool!
- Demon Land is WAY better than Demon World in Orlando.
- Funny how Goku manages to meet the same old lady twice!
- Very convenient mechanics for that sword.
- "I'll fight him then, he can't be as tough as they say" Looks like Goku still hasn't shaken off his naive arrogance!
- I like the brief cutback to Yamcha and Krillin, although I am puzzled as to why Krillin has to repeat his old training!
- What is it with Funimation replacing all the Rs with Ls EXCEPT for Shenlong??
- Huh, the central area feels a LOT like that one place in GT with the big robot guy!
- "You must be brave or stupid!" "I'm not either of those guys, I'm Goku!"
- "Thanks for everythingk!"
- So! In the debate over Demon Land or Sleeping Princess, I have to go with this episode. Ultimately this episode left me wanting more and told an overall more simple storyline that, politics between Meso and Shura aside, was exactly the length it needed to be. Sleeping Princess meanwhile felt more extraneous with the inclusion of Bulma, Yamcha and co. Demon Land also benefits GREATLY from Goku meeting people along the way that he can talk to like Meso, whereas in Sleeping Princess he doesn't even really meet Judas or whatever his name was. Not to mention the evil plan was much simpler and relatable in Demon Land compared to Sleeping Princess.
- That said it's still bizarre that Goku finds himself in 16th century France!
- I will say though, I'm getting PRETTY tired of both Toriyama and Toei using the "square/circle-shaped arena with grid tiles" trope for their tournament battles. C'mon guys it doesn't have to be THAT overt!

= The Rampage of InoShikaCho =
- Goku really needs to get better at managing his hunger and when he eats. How did he ever survive up on Mount Paoz??
- OF COURSE they have an infant baby. OF COURSE they do.
- I LOVE Goku rescuing the vehicle though! It shows his ingenuity and using his superior strength and skills to help others who need it. It's perfect!
- "No-one can defeat him, he's too strong!" "I've heard that a lot lately!"
- Had no idea we got a preview of Roshi and Crane as young men here!
- Kame Room? Seriously?
- Great, more ladies worrying for Goku out a window!
- Great, more ladies Goku's age worrying for him!
- I'm surprised Tien and Chiaotzu just let Goku expose them like that.
- "There are more people tougher than me! That's why I'm training!" Attaboy, Goku!
- The end of this episode gets surprisingly dark, particularly regarding the villagers not believing Goku.

= Which Way To Papaya Island? =
- Shouldn't Shu's outfit not fit Goku well anymore?
- If Animal Crossing has taught me anything, NEVER trust a fox who refers to you as a family member from Day 1.
- Ha! One of the destinations on the airport sign is Penguin Village!
- After all that time in the wilderness, a properly urban setting is very refreshing!
- Haha! Brice voices a pilot saying "We're about to experience some rough weather". Foreshadowing!
- BABA HAS A CAR?!
- "How do I look, baby?" "Oooh, you look distinguished!" "Distinguished?! Darn, I was going for sexy..."
- I like how Yellow and Blue Launch have different opinions sometimes!
- It's nice getting to see the Gang leave for the Tournament and get excited!
- "You're completely surrounded!" Yes, I can see that.
- They survived that?!
- As Roshi will point out, he could be using the Nimbus! Ha!
- Woah wait a minute! That second-to-last shot totally spoils the surprise Toei set themselves up on with the InoShikaCho episode!

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Tenshinhan crushing Yamcha's leg even after he was already down for the count is such an unsettling moment, because there was literally no reason at all for him to but did so anyway just to get his sick kicks as Goku furiously points out. This act shows the inherent ruthless nature of the Crane Hermit's training and Tao Pai Pai's influence, though it's obviously a setup for his eventual soul searching and inside revelation that causes him to turn against both of them. This of course comes soon after Roshi gives him the talking to after he gives up their match although at this point it's an act of unrepentant cruelty which makes him look irredeemable and all but fated to go down the road of evil and end up the same as Tao and Crane Hermit.

[Matches Malone]

This is such a great tournament, full of great fights and character moments. As pointed out, Tien breaking Yamcha's leg is very disturbing, and shows just how dangerous he is compared to others Goku's fought. I'll never understand how the American fan base can overlook OG DB, as there are just as many great moments and fights as Z.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

This is such a great tournament, full of great fights and character moments. As pointed out, Tien breaking Yamcha's leg is very disturbing, and shows just how dangerous he is compared to others Goku's fought. I'll never understand how the American fan base can overlook OG DB, as there are just as many great moments and fights as Z.

Indeed, and this makes his later revelation and heel face turn all the more impactful and poignant because up to that point it looks like he's seemingly destined to become a force of evil himself because of the brutal way he grew up under Crane Hermit's and Tao's teaching as shown in the flashbacks. I also like when he apologizes to Yamcha for it after everything's said and done, because we see that Roshi's words finally made him see the light and start down the right path.

[Matches Malone]

I also like when he apologizes to Yamcha for it after everything's said and done, because we see that Roshi's words finally made him see the light and start down the right path.

Another major aspect fans miss out on while skipping DB is Roshi's arc, as he's such a great and well developed character that you'd never know about if you skipped DB.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I also like when he apologizes to Yamcha for it after everything's said and done, because we see that Roshi's words finally made him see the light and start down the right path.

Another major aspect fans miss out on while skipping DB is Roshi's arc, as he's such a great and well developed character that you'd never know about if you skipped DB.

Indeed, that is one of my personal favorite parts of the original series and a great display of the wise sage master part of his character. It's one of those times when Roshi is more than a geezer pervert serving as comic relief which is also the case with parts of the Piccolo Daimao arc where he's a far more serious character overall unlike recent history where that gets sidelined in favor of the former more often.

[Robo4900]

KBABZ -- That is a lot! Will read it later.

Anyone else groan whenever they hear or see a bone break in a TV show or movie?

Oh yeah. Super uncomfortable!

Chaozu not being able to count and not considering himself bald due to his single strand of hair are the most personality he shows pretty much ever. After this, his distinguishing trait that isn't physical is his (platonic?) love for Tenshinhan.

Yeah. I think after this arc, Toriyama basically stopped caring about Chaozu. Then slowly stops caring about Tenshinhan too. A shame, given how fun Chiaotzu and Tenshinhan both were in this arc.
I like Chiaotzu being kind of an immature trickster/master troll.

Tenshinhan crushing Yamcha's leg even after he was already down for the count is such an unsettling moment, because there was literally no reason at all for him to but did so anyway just to get his sick kicks as Goku furiously points out. This act shows the inherent ruthless nature of the Crane Hermit's training and Tao Pai Pai's influence, though it's obviously a setup for his eventual soul searching and inside revelation that causes him to turn against both of them. This of course comes soon after Roshi gives him the talking to after he gives up their match although at this point it's an act of unrepentant cruelty which makes him look irredeemable and all but fated to go down the road of evil and end up the same as Tao and Crane Hermit.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

KBABZ -- That is a lot! Will read it later.

Anyone else groan whenever they hear or see a bone break in a TV show or movie?

Oh yeah. Super uncomfortable!

Chaozu not being able to count and not considering himself bald due to his single strand of hair are the most personality he shows pretty much ever. After this, his distinguishing trait that isn't physical is his (platonic?) love for Tenshinhan.

Yeah. I think after this arc, Toriyama basically stopped caring about Chaozu. Then slowly stops caring about Tenshinhan too. A shame, given how fun Chiaotzu and Tenshinhan both were in this arc.
I like Chiaotzu being kind of an immature trickster/master troll.

Tenshinhan crushing Yamcha's leg even after he was already down for the count is such an unsettling moment, because there was literally no reason at all for him to but did so anyway just to get his sick kicks as Goku furiously points out. This act shows the inherent ruthless nature of the Crane Hermit's training and Tao Pai Pai's influence, though it's obviously a setup for his eventual soul searching and inside revelation that causes him to turn against both of them. This of course comes soon after Roshi gives him the talking to after he gives up their match although at this point it's an act of unrepentant cruelty which makes him look irredeemable and all but fated to go down the road of evil and end up the same as Tao and Crane Hermit.

Yeah, the part where Tenshinhan goest to Roshi and asks why he self forfeited the match is such a great moment. I like where it causes him to start having second thoughts about his continued affiliation with the Crane Hermit and Tao and also whether the path he's currently on is right or not, then of course the real kicker during the final match against Goku when his open defiance and renouncing of his past training comes as he orders Chiaotzu to stop with the trickery and let him fight alone and unaided. This is really where the change in Ten's character for the better cements itself, because Roshi was able to open his eyes and make him realize that there is so much more for him to aspire to as a young martial artist than following in the footsteps of bad people like the aforementioned two.

[MyVisionity]

I like King Chapa as a character. I'm glad he returns in the next tournament. The filler with Namu is pretty dumb and doesn't do the characters any favors.

The lottery scenes are always fun. Chiao Tzu's psychic powers are a treat and I like the sound effect. Goku embarrassing the Turtle school and Tenshinhan's delight is funny.

Yamcha versus Tenshinhan is a great way to start the tournament while showcasing both of their abilities. "Wolf Hurricane" is a nice touch. Having Ten cripple Yamcha was a good choice. I like Goku casually talking with his mouth full during the dinner scenes.

Kuririn and Chiao Tzu is a highlight. We get to see Kuririn's acrobatic skills at work some more. I like how lethal Chiao Tzu is despite his innocence. Taopaipai as Crane's brother is a well done plot development. Also notable is the introduction of the Bukūjutsu as the Crane school signature technique. Of course everyone would go on to learn it and use it on the regular.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I love the use of the Westwood score in the preliminaries for Blue Water episode 86. That may be my nostalgia talking, and the insert song would have been nice in that version, but I think the Keenlyside track still fits and it didn't jar with the Kikuchi score used for the rest of the episode.

This episode was a lot of fun in the beginning but it takes a serious turn with all the Tien stuff. I can only imagine someone who hasn't watched Z first hating him when this is their first impression.

[*]In Funimation's dub, Man-Wolf originally had a voice effect applied; the "Remastered" dub removed this effect.

That's interesting. The dub changes between the broadcast and home release of Funi OG Dragon Ball and GT appear to be minimal, but I often wonder why they removed a lot of voice filters (ditto Android 19, Super Buu, etc).

[Matches Malone]

Yamcha versus Tenshinhan is a great way to start the tournament while showcasing both of their abilities. "Wolf Hurricane" is a nice touch. Having Ten cripple Yamcha was a good choice.

I miss the days of Yamcha being a real character and not an overused meme. I know he didn't have the best track record when it came to fights, but he was still taken seriously and treated with respect by everyone.

[Robo4900]

I love the use of the Westwood score in the preliminaries for Blue Water episode 86. That may be my nostalgia talking, and the insert song would have been nice in that version, but I think the Keenlyside track still fits and it didn't jar with the Kikuchi score used for the rest of the episode.

Agreed.
I don't know precisely why Blue Water replaced some insert songs with library music (I'm guessing AB told them they don't have rights to use them or something else weird like that), but I do think it's a solid fit. And any Z fans watching DB on TV got a kick out of hearing the Z tracks again, I'm sure.

This episode was a lot of fun in the beginning but it takes a serious turn with all the Tien stuff. I can only imagine someone who hasn't watched Z first hating him when this is their first impression.

Yeah. It's really cool.

• In Funimation's dub, Man-Wolf originally had a voice effect applied; the "Remastered" dub removed this effect.

That's interesting. The dub changes between the broadcast and home release of Funi OG Dragon Ball and GT appear to be minimal, but I often wonder why they removed a lot of voice filters (ditto Android 19, Super Buu, etc).

It's almost certaily incompetence/editing errors.

Funi didn't keep multitracks of their final mixes, apparently. So, when they did the "Remastered" dub, they were working off of WIP versions of the audio mix elements. That's why the Faulconer score in Z had some heavy rearrangement in the "Remastered" dub; they were using beta music placements.
Voice filters are another consequence of this; they just forgot to re-apply them.

Yamcha versus Tenshinhan is a great way to start the tournament while showcasing both of their abilities. "Wolf Hurricane" is a nice touch. Having Ten cripple Yamcha was a good choice.

I miss the days of Yamcha being a real character and not an overused meme. I know he didn't have the best track record when it came to fights, but he was still taken seriously and treated with respect by everyone.

Honestly, Toriyama got quite lazy about handling tertiary characters after about the Saiyan arc, and that led to a lot of problems... Yamucha becomes a meme, Tenshinhan gets nothing to do, Lunch never shows up again (even when her old friend Goku comes back from the dead for one day), Kuririn was largely demoted to extra...
It's clear that he had a good memory for these things during the original run; bringing back the Pilaf gang years after their last appearance, tying Dr Gero to the Red Ribbon Army years after the RRA arc, he even wrote Lunch into his first draft of one of the Boo arc chapters where people raise their hands to donate energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb... Though he ultimately replaced her with #17. The problem is, despite having a solid memory, Toriyama got lazy about actually using tertiary characters, so people like Yamucha end up just being thrown aside.

[ABED]

The scale of the fights went so far past those other characters they didn't offer much value. It would've been a better idea to have them leave altogether. Tenshinhan was used right. He comes in, helps out in a small way and then leaves. Yamcha offers very little beyond being cannon fodder and yet he's kept around.

[MasenkoHA]

AFAIK second form Freeza is the only one to retain his filtered voice effect in the remastered dub. Probably because Linda Young’s unfiltered voice would sound ridiculous on second form Freeza.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

AFAIK second form Freeza is the only one to retain his filtered voice effect in the remastered dub. Probably because Linda Young’s unfiltered voice would sound ridiculous on second form Freeza.

Well including GT Yi Xing Long's filter was kept, although unlike the other characters it made him sound worse.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

AFAIK second form Freeza is the only one to retain his filtered voice effect in the remastered dub. Probably because Linda Young’s unfiltered voice would sound ridiculous on second form Freeza.

Indeed, the regular old woman type voice which she used particularly for his first form just wouldn't be believable at all with the second transformation although Young was already miscast in the role to start with. I'm glad they recast Freeza with Chris Ayres starting with Kai and onward, because his voice actually is much closer to Ryuusei Nakao's performance in the Japanese version and nails the intent of the character as a sadistic yet posh at the same time tyrant and head of a far reaching galactic organization. This is something which both Pauline Newstone and Linda Young's respective takes didn't capture all aspects and only portrayed one part of him.

[Robo4900]

AFAIK second form Freeza is the only one to retain his filtered voice effect in the remastered dub. Probably because Linda Young’s unfiltered voice would sound ridiculous on second form Freeza.

Well including GT Yi Xing Long's filter was kept, although unlike the other characters it made him sound worse.

TBH, Chris Sabat was a bad casting for Yi Xing Long anyway. Bob Carter was honestly a really great actor for that role, but presumably Chris Sabat was cheaper, so they switched the casting over once he got his Super Yi Xing Long powerup... -_-
(Or maybe it was part of Funi's haphazard attempts to add more layers to the lore of the Evil Dragons in the form of dumb easter eggs; the first letter of each of their names spelling out "S H E N R O N", Super Yi Xing Long having the same voice actor as Shen Long...)

Either way, indeed.
It is possible that more attention was paid to early Z (since that was the first material covered by "Remastered") and late GT (since that was the most recent material they'd worked on that got a "Remastered" release). And/or people just forgot most of the voice filtering in the mid run... It's weird either way.

The scale of the fights went so far past those other characters they didn't offer much value. It would've been a better idea to have them leave altogether. Tenshinhan was used right. He comes in, helps out in a small way and then leaves. Yamcha offers very little beyond being cannon fodder and yet he's kept around.

Characters don't have to be strong enough to fight the current big bad one-on-one to be a valuable addition to the cast.
Bulma, Lunch, Pu'er, Oolong, Beers, Whis, Dende, and various others have been critical members of the main ensemble without coming to blows with anyone. Beers did fight Goku once, and Lunch shot some people in her first few episodes... That's about it.
Beers has used his god powers to destroy entities before (most notably, Zamas), but that's not fighting someone. It's similar to how Mr Satan ultimately is the reason Boo was defeated, using a unique facet of who he is, rather than using any kind of actual fighting. (And hey, Mr Satan is a great example of one of these characters too)
The thing is, though, Yamucha kinda still went into the fray and became a rather pathetic Worf; he's the guy who gets punched out by #20 to show how evil the cyborgs are.

Granted, I'm a strong proponent of the idea that irrelevant characters shouldn't be in a story AT ALL, but irrelevant doesn't mean "can fight the big bad one-on-one", irrelevant means they have no purpose in the story.
Yamucha is relevant in the baseball episode of Super, Lunch would've been relevant in the big reunion when Goku was brought back to earth for one day in the Boo arc (and it's a crime that she wasn't there), Mr Satan was relevant in the Boo arc, because he made friends with Boo and taught him the value of life, and was ultimately key to Kid Boo's defeat, Bulma is constantly relevant for science reasons, and character reasons, etc... Chichi is relevant though consistently used in bad, annoying, wrong ways (I get that the concerned mother of the young soldier is a cool idea, but the way it's played is "nagging annoyance")...

Having said that, though, characters buggering off when they don't have anything to do sounds good. I'd argue Tenshinhan didn't have anywhere near enough actual character moments after the Piccolo arc, but he was present basically everywhere that made sense, and him holding of Cell was great... But he didn't stick around too long taking up valuable screentime.

... I dunno, it's a weird balance. Characters shouldn't constantly pop up when they have no reason to (like most characters who show up in Super), but it would be nice if certain characters like Lunch wouldn't completely disappear when there are sensible reasons for them to hang around now and then (again, Goku returning to earth in the Boo arc, maybe the filler party after the Boo arc... Hell, maybe even Goku's return to earth at the start of the cyborgs arc, and the reunion at the beginning of the Saiyan arc. She's not exactly gonna fight anyone, but neither is Roshi, Bulma, or Kuririn at that point either...).

[ABED]

Bulma isn't a fighter, neither are Puar or Oolong or Dende. Their talents help out in ways that have nothing to do with battle. Yamcha is a warrior so that limits things substantially. Bulma is a tech genius and a great pilot. Puar can transform, and Dende can heal. I like where your head is at, but in the specific case of the warriors, unless they can either keep up or offer some temporary assistance like Tenshinhan being a distraction, I don't see how to use them effectively. Roshi can offer wisdom due to his age and experience.

Granted, I'm a strong proponent of the idea that irrelevant characters shouldn't be in a story AT ALL, but irrelevant doesn't mean "can fight the big bad one-on-one", irrelevant means they have no purpose in the story.

I agree and that's a great example with Mr. Satan, but DB has such a big cast, that I don't know how all those warrior can or even should remain active members.