How does the Goku/Vegeta rivalry compare to the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry

[DBNamek]

Long time DB fan, and occasional lurker around these forums until now.

How does the Goku/Vegeta rivalry compare to the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry in your opinion. Do you think the former rivalry is better/worse than the latter rivalry?

I feel that for one thing about the former rivalry, despite Goku and Vegeta being equals/near equals in power, it doesn't feel like a true rivalry. No matter what Vegeta does, or how many times he surpasses Goku in power, Goku will still come out ahead in the long run almost every time.

For the latter rivalry, Naruto and Sasuke are equals more often than not. Despite the fact neither were close to being equals at the start of the series, despite Naruto being weaker than Sasuke, it still felt more of a genuine rivalry because both pushed each other. There rivalry never felt it was one sided from one's respective compared to the Goku/Vegeta rivalry.

What do you guys think?

[Matches Malone]

Both shows are my top favorite anime, with DB having the slightest edge. Before I start, I want to clarify which material I'll be covering, as both franchises are huge. For DB, I'm covering the original manga and BOG movie. For Naruto, I'm covering the original manga. With that said, here are my thoughts.

For Goky and Vegeta's, I think the first thing it does better is get to the point, as it started in the Cell arc and ended more or less after their second fight in the Buu arc. That's an arc and a third give or take. With Naruto and Sasuke's, it took the final arc of part 1 and the entirety of Shippuden to end. As much as I like Naruto, part of that time could've been spent on just about anything else. I also think Toriyama made the right choice by not having the rivalry be front and center of everything, compared to Kishimoto's decision to have it be center event nearly all the time. Less can be more.

The second thing Goku and Vegeta's rivalry has going for it is Vegeta's arc compared to Sasuke's. For Vegeta's, his decisions during the Cell and Buu arcs all made sense and resulted in a satisfying conclusion to their rivalry. BOG took things even further by having Goku state that he now respects Vegeta, just as Vegeta declared his respect for Goku an arc prior. At first, Sasuke's character arc made complete sense, he wanted revenge yet wasn't getting anywhere, so he left. He put together a team and as the story went on, he finally took down Itachi. But that's where things completely go down hill. After that he wanted to destroy the village, he tried to kill his previous team members, he sacrificed his own team member Karin, then he made a complete 360 and decided to be Hokage...it was all over the place. When Vegeta turned good during the fight with Kid Buu, it took multiple events for him to come to his decision. Sasuke on the other hand went from really bad, to really good out of nowhere. Vegeta's arc may have been shorter, but it was far more consistent.

The third thing Goku and Vegeta's rivalry has in its favor is the reason for it. For Vegeta, his pride as a prince won't let him accept any other Saiyan to be stronger than him, even his own son Trunks. It makes sense why he's obsessed with Goku, as it's not personal, he just happens to be the one stronger than him. If he thought some other saiyan was stronger, he'd shift that obsession to them. Why does Naruto care about Sasuke again ? I understand they're both orphans and didn't have the best childhood, but Naruto's obsession to the point of putting Sasuke ahead of his Hokage dream didn't make the most sense.

Before I move into Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry, I want to clear up a major misconception that's been going around for years in regards to Goku and Vegeta's rivalry, and that's Vegeta's strength in comparison to Goku's. The point of the rivalry was never to have Vegeta surpass Goku, it was to have him see the error of his lifestyle and change for the better, which is exactly what happens during the Buu arc and further in BOG. Despite that though, Vegeta's reform allowed him for a moment to far surpass Goku against Beerus, so there's that.

For Naruto and Sasuke, I think the main thing it has over the other's is Sasuke being introduced at the start of the manga and being able to develop alongside Naruto form the beginning. Although we didn't need to see Vegeta's adventures as a child, it wouldn't have hurt either, as it would've developed him even further.

The second thing they've got over Goku and Vegeta is Sasuke being his own main character in Shippuden, as it allowed him to be just as important as Naruto, making them truly equal. With DB, Vegeta was never truly equal to Goku, just as everyone else wasn't. It's a different kind of rivalry, but Vegeta getting his own separate adventures and villains would've given him more ground to stand on as Goku's rival.

With these 5 points taken into account, I have to give it to Goku and Vegeta. By no means is Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry a bad one, but the mistakes I pointed out kept it from reaching its full potential. Despite having far less time to develop it, I feel that Toriyama managed to put together a far more consistent relationship and rivalry between Goku and Vegeta.

[MasenkoHA]

Never forget Goku and Vegeta’s boring uninteresting rivalry walked so Naruto and Sasuke and every generic obnoxious shonen anime rivalry could run.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

The SasuNaru yaoi fanfiction tends to be written by people who actually think it would be a good ship. The GoGeta stuff on the otherhand is usually people trolling.

Which isn't to say there aren't GoGeta shippers out there, just that they're all from the 90s and are still spelling "Vegeta" "Bejiita"

More seriously, the comparisons don't get too far. Goku/Vegeta is obviously the inspiration for Naruto/Sasuke but that's about it. The Naruto/Sasuke dynamic quickly becomes the battlefield across which the themes of the show play out. The right way to love people, the right way to love yourself, the right way to persue strength, what you owe friends/family/country, the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry is meant to represent the different sides of those issues. I don't necessarily think it was all well done but it's a pretty consistent part of the series. Naruto gathers a group of friends to help him, Sasuke cajoles and bullies a group of vagabonds to help him. Sasuke murderkills his way through problems, Naruto tries to talk his way through them and even succeeds most of the time. Naruto and Sasuke aren't just rivals they're mirrors of each other.

With Goku/Vegeta the relationship isn't anything like that. Goku and Vegeta are foils who eventually grow into rivals. Matches brings up a good point when they wrote that the point of Vegeta/Goku wasn't to have Vegeta surpass Goku. Vegeta is meant to act as the antithesis of Goku. Goku works to restore his fallen comrades to life, Vegeta mocks the idea and dismisses Raditz as too weak to live. Goku makes friends wherever he goes, Vegeta commits genocide for a living. Goku has had to humble himself before every new master to grow as a martial artist, Vegeta was born strong and reverse engineers ki sensing in a couple weeks. Their rivalry stems from being such dramatically different people and Vegeta's refusal to consider that his way of doing things isn't all that great.

[emperior]

Goku doesn’t even consider Vegeta his rival, and never has. Naruto and Sasuke are actual rivals and have been such throughout all of Naruto’s run.

Naruto and Sasuke have a much deeper bond and connection. I would say the two complete one another. Naruto wouldn’t be Naruto without Sasuke, and viceversa.

This doesn’t mean they were written better, as I also found the portrayal of Sasuke’s goals inconsistent, and written just to benefit the plot instead of benefitting the character. Kishimoto wanted the manga to end with Naruto vs Sasuke, and thus suddenly Sasuke was interested in being Hokage.

On the other hand Vegeta and Goku are much more independent as characters. Vegeta only serves to show how Goku’s mentality is what makes him special, and was also useful for the Saiyan arc thematic that “hard work surpasses talent”. He basically has the purpose of making Goku shine more by failing at what Goku can do (such as going Super Saiyan, mastering Super Saiyan, etcetera) and always being a step behind him.

[SupremeKai25]

The rivalry between Goku and Vegeta is onesided as Goku doesn't see him as a rival he has to surpass. The rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke is much deeper and seeted in the world's lore, as they are the reincarnations of Indra and Ashura aka the two siblings who first started the cycle of hatred in the world. People always give shit to Kishimoto because of the whole reincarnation plotline because it supposedly betrays the message of the show that even a nobody can become strong, but that's not the point. Naruto and Sasuke ultimately defied destiny because after thousands of years they broke the cycle of hatred and the spirits of Indra and Ashura could finally rest in peace. So really the rivalry between Goku and Vegeta is not that important to the storyline, whereas the rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke is central to the ending of the show. Especially since ultimately Shippuden is the story about trying to end the hatred in the world and bring about an era of peace for the first time.

If u are talking only about powerlevels, then they are more similar because in the end Naruto becomes much stronger than Sasuke, as clearly shown by their final fight (a Naruto who was holding back was fighting Sasuke and the power of all the bijuus and actually tied).

[Sadala Elite]

Goku doesn’t even consider Vegeta his rival, and never has. Naruto and Sasuke are actual rivals and have been such throughout all of Naruto’s run.

Naruto and Sasuke have a much deeper bond and connection. I would say the two complete one another. Naruto wouldn’t be Naruto without Sasuke, and viceversa.

This doesn’t mean they were written better, as I also found the portrayal of Sasuke’s goals inconsistent, and written just to benefit the plot instead of benefitting the character. Kishimoto wanted the manga to end with Naruto vs Sasuke, and thus suddenly Sasuke was interested in being Hokage.

On the other hand Vegeta and Goku are much more independent as characters. Vegeta only serves to show how Goku’s mentality is what makes him special, and was also useful for the Saiyan arc thematic that “hard work surpasses talent”. He basically has the purpose of making Goku shine more by failing at what Goku can do (such as going Super Saiyan, mastering Super Saiyan, etcetera) and always being a step behind him.

There is no "hard work beats talent" theme in the Saiyan arc, and this whole "The Saiyans never trained" idea is just baseless Western headcanon.

Also, Goku half the time ends up looking worse than Vegeta in the story (and I"m not just talking about power levels).

[Sadala Elite]

Long time DB fan, and occasional lurker around these forums until now.

How does the Goku/Vegeta rivalry compare to the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry in your opinion. Do you think the former rivalry is better/worse than the latter rivalry?

I feel that for one thing about the former rivalry, despite Goku and Vegeta being equals/near equals in power, it doesn't feel like a true rivalry. No matter what Vegeta does, or how many times he surpasses Goku in power, Goku will still come out ahead in the long run almost every time.

For the latter rivalry, Naruto and Sasuke are equals more often than not. Despite the fact neither were close to being equals at the start of the series, despite Naruto being weaker than Sasuke, it still felt more of a genuine rivalry because both pushed each other. There rivalry never felt it was one sided from one's respective compared to the Goku/Vegeta rivalry.

What do you guys think?

Naruto and Sasuke were never equals, and I'm not just talking about power either.

Naruto is consistently portrayed as the better person overall throughout the series, often in not subtle ways.

And when speaking of strength, Naruto was actually holding back in his final fight against Sasuke in Shippuden (he reframed from using his most lethal and powerful abilities against Sasuke while the latter was basically bloodlusted).
https://youtu.be/Y4EvybcpEXg

[emperior]

Goku doesn’t even consider Vegeta his rival, and never has. Naruto and Sasuke are actual rivals and have been such throughout all of Naruto’s run.

Naruto and Sasuke have a much deeper bond and connection. I would say the two complete one another. Naruto wouldn’t be Naruto without Sasuke, and viceversa.

This doesn’t mean they were written better, as I also found the portrayal of Sasuke’s goals inconsistent, and written just to benefit the plot instead of benefitting the character. Kishimoto wanted the manga to end with Naruto vs Sasuke, and thus suddenly Sasuke was interested in being Hokage.

On the other hand Vegeta and Goku are much more independent as characters. Vegeta only serves to show how Goku’s mentality is what makes him special, and was also useful for the Saiyan arc thematic that “hard work surpasses talent”. He basically has the purpose of making Goku shine more by failing at what Goku can do (such as going Super Saiyan, mastering Super Saiyan, etcetera) and always being a step behind him.

There is no "hard work beats talent" theme in the Saiyan arc, and this whole "The Saiyans never trained" idea is just baseless Western headcanon.

Also, Goku half the time ends up looking worse than Vegeta in the story (and I"m not just talking about power levels).

Maybe not a theme, but it was definitely an element from the arc considering Goku was regarded as trash by all the Saiyans, while Nappa singed Vegeta’s praise as such a prodigy he was named after their home planet.

And the Saiyans might have trained but they focused more on fighting. See how Raditz was already a combatant as a kid. It is not baseless western headcanon.