Do you think the Boo saga was the most brutal in the series ?

[Forte224]

Tonally, the Buu Saga was kind of a mess. It arguably was the most brutal and bleak point in the series, but Toriyama made sure to sprinkle loads of gags and silly aspects to lighten it up. As beautiful as Vegeta's sacrifice is, it has to be overlooked that the immediate reason for sacrificing himself is to kill a ridiculous fat pink blob in a genie costume that kills people by turning them into sweets.

While I agree the tone was kind of all over the place in the Boo arc, Vegeta’s sacrifice being beautiful and serious and the conflicting tone of Boo being utterly ridiculous never bothered me. It felt intentionally jarring and I’ve always felt it represented Dragon Ball quite well.

While the people of Earth giving their energy for the Genki dama was a beautiful scene, there's a cynical, bittersweet edge to it in that Mr. Satan has to once again lie and the dumbass humans only comply because they unquestioningly believe it.

This is another scene I’ve always loved. It was so silly and definitely frustrating to watch the humans act like...well, humans, but at the same time it was sweet to see good ol’ Mark get some redemption and actually kind of finally save the day. It was another moment that I felt fit Dragon Ball quite well.

The Boo arc has some serious issues and is not my favorite arc, but the good/great moments like the ones above and others rival anything else in the series for me.

[MyVisionity]

Do you think they needed someone to represent their cruelty? Beating up a relative nobody doesn't prove much, much less how dangerous they are. And his job was to gather energy. His beating of Videl was entirely disconnected with the plot. At least Freeza's men were instilling fear in the Namekians to get them to comply.

Videl isn't important to the narrative. She's nice but she has no bearing on the story. Her romance w/ Gohan was a subplot.

I mean that Spopovitch is there to serve as an introduction to the Bobbidi gang. That's how he represents them. And his brutality does give you a taste of their cruelty and danger, by sending a message to the characters and audience.

I meant it's a lackey's job to do that kind of hands-on dirty work. It's certainly not something Dabra or Boo himself could have done. It needed to be a "less important" character.

Videl is important enough to motivate Gohan when she gets hurt, and is someone the audience is supposed to care about. Their subplot still factors into the overall narrative.

Why does Spopovitch have to beat up a vital character? Would that really be of greater impact? Sometimes less is more.

[ABED]

How? We've seen that sort of brutality before.

And it didn't need to be done. Spopovitch's grudge wasn't in any way related to his mission.

Videl is important enough to motivate Gohan when she gets hurt, and is someone the audience is supposed to care about. Their subplot still factors into the overall narrative.

Why does Spopovitch have to beat up a vital character? Would that really be of greater impact? Sometimes less is more.

Their subplot barely factors into the Buu arc beyond getting the ball rolling but after that, she basically does nothing. She's not vital and neither is Gohan really. He has a lot of screentime but he doesn't do anything to help resolve the story. His story is mostly relegated to making the same mistakes he did before and eventually retiring.

I wasn't saying Spopovitch has to beat up anyone or even a vital character. The beat down feels egregious because she's a nobody in the scheme of things. She's mostly the love interest. It leads nowhere. If it had motivate Gohan and he was eventually vital to stopping the bad guy, that would've been something, but he doesn't

[Psajdak]

Spopovitch was necessary for Videl's character development.

She needed to learn her place.

[ABED]

Spopovitch was necessary for Videl's character development.

She needed to learn her place.

Why do I care that she "develops"? And what is her place?

[Psajdak]

Why do I care that she "develops"? And what is her place?

You see, that's the thing, no one cares what YOU care about; you may have tons of questions that you consider good, but in the end, you are just another random person on the Internet who spends his time talking about Dragon Ball.

On the other hand, Videl, no matter how relevant as character or not, is still known to millions of people all over the world.

Her place is above you, btw.

[GoodboiRaditz]

Without Videl , Gohan wouldn't have participated in the tournament and without him entering Goku and Vegeta wouldn't because they wouldn't know about it , so basically Goku stays in the afterlife with Babidi and Dabura wandering the earth for energies until they meet Vegeta or Gohan who would finish them off and that's would've been it for the Boo arc .

Even assuming there were no other way for this to happen, that's the most she does and then nothing else for the bulk of the story. Hardly what I would call vital, especially given Kaioshin would've still used Gohan as bait to find Babidi. Gohan wouldn't have finished off Dabura.

I think it would've made an interesting what if , Gohan not meeting Videl would surely changed a lot , Goku would stay dead , Vegeta will surely finishes off Dabura if Gohan could not , then Babidi dies after that , Beerus would wake up and probably hakai the earth , no Black/Zamasu in this world , U7 is erased by Zeno and that is the end .

[MyVisionity]

How? We've seen that sort of brutality before.

And it didn't need to be done. Spopovitch's grudge wasn't in any way related to his mission.

I can't recall seeing that kind of brutality before.

It's not about his mission. It's about what the author decides is the character's role or "job" in the story. Spopovitch's true purpose was him beating up Videl, not gathering energy.

Their subplot barely factors into the Buu arc beyond getting the ball rolling but after that, she basically does nothing. She's not vital and neither is Gohan really. He has a lot of screentime but he doesn't do anything to help resolve the story. His story is mostly relegated to making the same mistakes he did before and eventually retiring.

I wasn't saying Spopovitch has to beat up anyone or even a vital character. The beat down feels egregious because she's a nobody in the scheme of things. She's mostly the love interest. It leads nowhere. If it had motivate Gohan and he was eventually vital to stopping the bad guy, that would've been something, but he doesn't

They aren't vital to the rest of the arc because Toriyama switches gears after Boo is released. It's not quite the same arc that it was when it started, and things turn into a different direction.

It seems like you're looking at the entirety of the saga in judging the characters' importance, instead of everything that occurred up until those points in the story. But that's an "after the fact" view of the story, not something that would have been in the author or reader's mind in the middle of it.

[ABED]

How? We've seen that sort of brutality before.

And it didn't need to be done. Spopovitch's grudge wasn't in any way related to his mission.

I can't recall seeing that kind of brutality before.

It's not about his mission. It's about what the author decides is the character's role or "job" in the story. Spopovitch's true purpose was him beating up Videl, not gathering energy.

Their subplot barely factors into the Buu arc beyond getting the ball rolling but after that, she basically does nothing. She's not vital and neither is Gohan really. He has a lot of screentime but he doesn't do anything to help resolve the story. His story is mostly relegated to making the same mistakes he did before and eventually retiring.

I wasn't saying Spopovitch has to beat up anyone or even a vital character. The beat down feels egregious because she's a nobody in the scheme of things. She's mostly the love interest. It leads nowhere. If it had motivate Gohan and he was eventually vital to stopping the bad guy, that would've been something, but he doesn't

They aren't vital to the rest of the arc because Toriyama switches gears after Boo is released. It's not quite the same arc that it was when it started, and things turn into a different direction.

It seems like you're looking at the entirety of the saga in judging the characters' importance, instead of everything that occurred up until those points in the story. But that's an "after the fact" view of the story, not something that would have been in the author or reader's mind in the middle of it.

Freeza impales Kuririn on his horn and Piccolo blasts Goku through the chest and tortures him. 20 pops a driver's head off like a grape

I'm well aware what his purpose in the story was. Again, it feels more egregious b/c the brutality is not to some greater end like characterization of the big bad. This is a disposable lackie brutalizing what passes for a normy

You see, that's the thing, no one cares what YOU care about; you may have tons of questions that you consider good, but in the end, you are just another random person on the Internet who spends his time talking about Dragon Ball.

On the other hand, Videl, no matter how relevant as character or not, is still known to millions of people all over the world.

Her place is above you, btw.

What the hell? Did I piss you off? It was an earnest question. Why should the audience care that she develops? How does she develop and what exactly do you mean by "her place?"

Lastly as to your insult "her place is above"... good one

[emperior]

Videl’s beatdown is the most brutal part of Buu arc. Apart from it, there are obviously other instances of brutal moments but I think other arcs such as the Saiyan arc and Freeza arc were more brutal.

The Saiyan arc literally begins with Goku and Raditz killed by being pierced, with a big hole in their stomach.
When Vegeta and Nappa arrive they immediately blow up a whole city which they even forgot to ever bring back with the DBs.
Then Yamcha dies, Chaozu commits useless suicide and Tenshinan loses his arm and dies too by suicide. Then Piccolo too perishes. Then Goku vs Vegeta is so brutal that by the end of it everyone but Krillin is unable to stand up, they are all badly damaged and soaked in blood and Goku’s bones are all broken. I would say it was the most brutal arc, and the fight with Vegeta was the most brutal fight in Dragon Ball, on par with Goku vs Piccolo Jr.

Namek was also probably as brutal if not even more.

[ABED]

There are moments where I see how brutal it is but don't really feel it (e.g., Super Buu pouring himself into the manservant until he explodes) and there are moments where I do feel it (e.g. Piccolo tearing his shattered arms off, Tenshinhan breaking Yamcha's leg). I don't think there's any common link it's just a gut feeling.

[KBABZ]

It is very dark and brutal, but since it's being intentionally done as part of mood whiplash, it loses some of its value (although it's undeniable that from a sheer quantity standpoint it stands on top, like Fat Buu emptying multiple cities with reckless abandon).

Personally though I'd say the Daimao arc had the out-and-out most brutal individual scene in the series, which is Daimao breaking Goku's joints with rocks. Makes me shudder every time.

[ABED]

You bring up a good point about mood whiplash. That can work well sometimes. I can't articulate why though. Scrubs did an amazing job of making you laugh one minute and somber the next.

[WittyUsername]

A lot of Dragon Ball is brutal. The Freeza arc had a bunch of innocent villagers being slaughtered in gruesome ways, including the children, and the Cell arc had Yamcha getting stabbed through his chest, and people getting sucked up by the bad guy’s tail. The Boo arc can get brutal as well, but it’s done in a more cartoony manner. I would say that when I was a kid, I found Majin Boo being able to turn people into candy to be pretty terrifying, but in hindsight, something like that is a lot goofier and more over the top than Cell’s method of eating people.

[emperior]

There are moments where I see how brutal it is but don't really feel it (e.g., Super Buu pouring himself into the manservant until he explodes) and there are moments where I do feel it (e.g. Piccolo tearing his shattered arms off, Tenshinhan breaking Yamcha's leg). I don't think there's any common link it's just a gut feeling.

Ah yes, it can definitely be subjective.

For example the scene I feel the most is Vegeta breaking every bone of Goku. Goku’s screams definitely helped sell how painful it was.

In general the bone-breaking scenes are the ones I can understand more as it’s a far more relatable pain than, say, being cut in half by a Kienzan or getting your arm ripped off.

[LoganForkHands73]

I think an argument can be made that Android 19 and 20's debut was quite shocking, maybe not the most brutal but there's something about an old man and a fat mime going around a normal city, indiscriminately slaughtering random civilians like bored GTA protagonists. It's a bit less brutally realistic compared to Gus Van Zant's antics, but it's still bad.

It's kind of interesting in hindsight that Imperfect Cell's introduction was essentially just an improved reimagining of their debut. But at least Cell was acting on his need to eat/absorb, not just killing people for the sake of it (though Cell was certainly no innocent beast).

[Lord Beerus]

Nothing will top the brutality that happened on Namek in the Freeza arc.

[ABED]

Cell stabbing that businessman was painful enough but then he sucks up their body is one of the most revolting moments of the entire series.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I don't think it's the top most brutal arc in the whole series as there are definitely more in the preceding, though there are a few particular moments i think that place it higher up there with them.

- Spopovitch thrashing Videl after she's already done a number on him.

- Babidi and Pui Pui disposing of Yamu and Spopovitch after bringing them the energy taken from Gohan to unseal Majin Buu.

- The gunman shooting Bee and later Mr. Satan leading to Buu forcing his evil side out.

- Super Buu pouring down the guy's throat and making him explode from inside.

[Jord]

The way in which most of the deaths were portrayed made it look less brutal than it was. Yeah, almost everyone on earth died and people changed into candy or chocolate but it all looked more wacky than brutal.
Compare that with:

• Chaotzu committing suicide while crying

• Watching Yamcha's charred body after getting blown up.

• Goku finding the bodies of his dead friends and checking if they were really dead

• Frieza murdering a child and watching the charred body of the child.

• Kuririn getting impaled by Frieza with blood gushing out.

• Piccolo sacrificing himself

The tone is completely different.