Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

[goku the krump dancer]

Funny thing is, Dr Slump, Dragon Ball and Neko Majin are respective sequels to one another. Different properties, different main characters, different stories being told. Neko Majin is even more of a direct sequel to Dragon Ball as he is Goku's student.

[Skar]

It feels like we get this thread every few weeks . We get a lot of various opinions each time with some fans wanting the series to end, a sequel with a new generation, or a sequel with an entirely new cast. I'm fine with the manga's original ending. I still believe that Toriyama intends DBS to end there since based on his comments during the 30th anniversary interview and the fact that he's had all these storylines take place during this timeskip.

I also hope Toei is willing to leave the series alone after Toriyama retires out of respect. Maybe Toei attempts to continue on their own but I can't imagine it'll be any good or will last long. I agree with ABED's comment about recapturing the lightning in a bottle because I don't think any revival has ever lived up to the original work and the author is past their prime if they're involved. Usually the point of reviving a series is nostalgia so they mainly focus on the most popular aspects of the original. I think the only time we'll see a sequel focused on the next generation or new cast is in the form of short spin-offs.

[Matches Malone]

I hope Toei is willing to leave the series alone after Toriyama retires out of respect.

There's too much $$$ involved for the franchise to stop, regardless of who has to walk away from it. Apart from that, Toriyama has said multiple times that he'd like to see it go on beyond his writing, and with Toyotro getting more involved with the story, it's safe to say he'll be getting more control over the story as time goes on.

[Skar]

There's too much $$$ involved for the franchise to stop, regardless of who has to walk away from it. Apart from that, Toriyama has said multiple times that he'd like to see it go on beyond his writing, and with Toyotro getting more involved with the story, it's safe to say he'll be getting more control over the story as time goes on.

The original series ended while it was still successful. I remember when some people said that the DBS anime would continue indefinitely as long as it makes money. Now it's been two years since it ended and they're apparently waiting on Toriyama (one of the reasons we've heard anyway). Toyotaro is almost as old Toriyama when he completed the original manga so I'm not sure how long he intends to be involved.

Yes it's possible Toei decides to continue on their own but it might only be a relatively short anime like GT. So far almost all revivals I've seen were made with the intent of being temporary and I can't think of many lasting as long as the original work. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Star Wars but Disney has changed their plans since the last few films didn't perform as well as expected.

[WittyUsername]

I might be making a premature observation, but it seems like the world of entertainment in general won’t be the same moving forward, so who knows what the future holds for the franchise?

[Matches Malone]

The original series ended while it was still successful.

I remember when some people said that the DBS anime would continue indefinitely as long as it makes money.

Toyotaro is almost as old Toriyama when he completed the original manga so I'm not sure how long he intends to be involved.

Yes it's possible Toei decides to continue on their own but it might only be a relatively short anime like GT.

GT was anything but successful.

A producer said the reason it's not back is because they don't want to make the same mistake they did with 1.0 by rushing its production.

The difference is that Toriyama had been drawing manga for 15 years straight at that point (5 on dr.slump and 10 on db).

Personally speaking, I've gotten more DB content than I ever thought possible, so things ending with Toriyama or a bit after is OK with me, I just don't think they're going to let that kind of $$$ go.

[ABED]

It doesn't just go one way, fans can't let it go.

[WittyUsername]

It doesn't just go one way, fans can't let it go.

Interesting. What do you mean by that?

[ABED]

It doesn't just go one way, fans can't let it go.

Interesting. What do you mean by that?

The reason Toei keeps it coming is because people still want more. They'd end it if it didn't sell anymore.

[Skar]

GT was anything but successful.

A producer said the reason it's not back is because they don't want to make the same mistake they did with 1.0 by rushing its production.

The difference is that Toriyama had been drawing manga for 15 years straight at that point (5 on dr.slump and 10 on db).

Personally speaking, I've gotten more DB content than I ever thought possible, so things ending with Toriyama or a bit after is OK with me, I just don't think they're going to let that kind of $$$ go.

We always hear that GT wasn't successful but do we have evidence that it ended prematurely? I know the ratings weren't as high as for DBZ but they weren't exactly low enough for it be considered a flop. The TV special with Goku Jr came out around the middle of GT so they already had the ending and the 100 timeskip in mind at that point.

I believe it was the producer or director of DBS Broly that said it ultimately depended on Toriyama how the series continue. It's very likely they won't decide continue without Toriyama once he retires because they know it won't be as successful. One of Toriyama's editors said that Toei approached Toriyama in 2008 to make a new anime and he declined so we got Kai. I'm pretty sure they could've continued without him but they waited until he wanted to work on the series again.

[Lord Beerus]

While I can only speak for myself, there may be no harm in it, but I do think people's creative energies would be better spent doing something original. Even with a good writer, further stories don't have the same sense of specialness or like the world is wide open.

Right now though, there's really nothing left original to do beyond give one or two members of the cast more transformations. Modern Dragon Ball is running largely on nostalgia because Toei, Toriyama and Toyotaro all know there is nothing else they can do with the current cast in terms of developing them beyond that. And unfortunately, nostalgia sells. GT ran into the same problem almost instantly. It wanted to do something new, but was too afraid to let go of the past and the storytelling suffered because of it.

I really don't want Dragon Ball's major renaissance to be largely remembered as nothing more than dressed-up fan service. If Battle Of Gods was all we got I would have been fine with that, but Toriyama and Toei just kept going.

[Matches Malone]

We always hear that GT wasn't successful but do we have evidence that it ended prematurely ?

One of Toriyama's editors said that Toei approached Toriyama in 2008 to make a new anime and he declined so we got Kai.

I'm pretty sure they could've continued without him but they waited until he wanted to work on the series again.

If it was successful it would've lasted more than 64 episodes.

Kai is one of the best things to come out of the franchise, so thank god for that.

I think the difference is that back then they didn't have an example to go on like they do now. Now thanks to Toriyama, they know what works and what doesn't, what connects with fans and what doesn't. There's also the fact that thanks to DB Evolution, Toriyama will always be involved in one way or another, unlike in 2008 where he wouldn't get involved at all.

[Mad Swami]

Gt's first arc was so hated that it was cut from it's original scheduled episodes to a whopping 12

[ABED]

While I can only speak for myself, there may be no harm in it, but I do think people's creative energies would be better spent doing something original. Even with a good writer, further stories don't have the same sense of specialness or like the world is wide open.

Right now though, there's really nothing left original to do beyond give one or two members of the cast more transformations. Modern Dragon Ball is running largely on nostalgia because Toei, Toriyama and Toyotaro all know there is nothing else they can do with the current cast in terms of developing them beyond that. And unfortunately, nostalgia sells. GT ran into the same problem almost instantly. It wanted to do something new, but was too afraid to let go of the past and the storytelling suffered because of it.

I really don't want Dragon Ball's major renaissance to be largely remembered as nothing more than dressed-up fan service. If Battle Of Gods was all we got I would have been fine with that, but Toriyama and Toei just kept going.

But giving us a new cast won't do anything to get rid of that feeling.

GT didn't want to do something new. It put Goku in his childhood body and its first arc was a rehash of the very first arc.

[Lord Beerus]

But giving us a new cast won't do anything to get rid of that feeling.

GT didn't want to do something new. It put Goku in his childhood body and its first arc was a rehash of the very first arc.

A new cast could at least provide more storytelling options beyond "when is character X going to get a new transformation", which is the current narrative rut that modern Dragon Ball is in right now.

GT did want to have Goku travel across the universe, which the original manga didn't do (and no, just going to one planet doesn't count), it's just execution of it was horrible. Turning Goku back into a child was certainly one of the big problems.

[ABED]

But it's a rut of a slightly different kind. It's martial artists with the same goals. It's not growth it's the appearance of growth.

Traveling across the universe isn't new for two reasons. 1) We've seen the characters travel across the universe, and 2) It's the same arc as the first one, but the distances are longer.. That's not fundamentally new.

and no, just going to one planet doesn't count

Of course not, for purely arbitrary reasons.

Turning Goku back into a child was certainly one of the big problems.

It wasn't. He wasn't actually a kid.

At least GT did something genuinely new and interesting with the Evil Dragons.

[Skar]

If it was successful it would've lasted more than 64 episodes.

So no evidence other than the assumption that they wanted it to go on for as long as possible? Do we have a quote or interview or some financial report indicating GT ended earlier than intended?

I think the difference is that back then they didn't have an example to go on like they do now. Now thanks to Toriyama, they know what works and what doesn't, what connects with fans and what doesn't. There's also the fact that thanks to DB Evolution, Toriyama will always be involved in one way or another, unlike in 2008 where he wouldn't get involved at all.

I believe they're aware that continuing without Toriyama wouldn't be as successful. A major selling point is that the original author is involved and creating as a continuation of the manga. If one of the highest earning film franchises like Star Wars could underperform, there's no guarantee Dragonball could do as well as it now indefinitely. Realistically how long do you think they can go on once Toriyama retires? Another 100 episodes? Another 500 episodes? Is it likely that any new movie not written by Toriyama would be anywhere near as successful as the three he worked on?

[WittyUsername]

Didn’t BoG start production without Toriyama?

[Matches Malone]

If one of the highest earning film franchises like Star Wars could underperform, there's no guarantee Dragonball could do as well as it now indefinitely.

The difference is that star wars (from what I've heard and read) was all over the place, there was no consistency in what they were doing. With modern DB, they've clearly got a winning formula on their hands with the following:

Goku and Vegeta as the main characters.
Keeping everyone else involved through secondary roles.
Epic fights being front and center.
Cool looking villains with interesting abilities.
Nostalgia being a big part of things.

We may not always agree with the franchise's direction (I know I've said plenty about it), but there's no denying that it works. Even fans who criticize it can still enjoy what it has to offer. With star wars, you've got a good number of fans who outright hate its current direction, something modern DB hasn't had to deal with.

Realistically how long do you think they can go on once Toriyama retires? Another 100 episodes? Another 500 episodes?

It depends on 2 things, where the franchise is critically when he retires, and what they decide to do with it moving forward. Fans were jumping up and down with joy when Super 1.0 ended due to its high quality ending, so if he exists with that kind of reception, it could easily go for another few hundred episodes. However, it also depends on where they take the franchise, as Toriyama's (hopefully) good conclusion will only carry it so far. If they decide to pull a GT and throw everything that worked out the window in favor of...whatever it is GT turned out to be, then that's probably how long it would last. If they continue to do what works, as listed above, then they won't have much trouble keeping Toriyama's momentum going.

Is it likely that any new movie not written by Toriyama would be anywhere near as successful as the three he worked on?

How likely is it that they'd be of the same quality ? If we get the same writing and production quality as his movies, then of course they'll be successful. With how long they've been working on Modern DB, and how long they'll continue to work on it until his departure, I assusme they'll know what works and what doesn't by then.

Didn’t BoG start production without Toriyama?

Yes, and he wasn't even asked to get involved, nor was the franchise in the place it is now. If they were willing to move ahead without him back then, they'll surely do it now.

[goku the krump dancer]

Toriyama retired from full-time Mangaka work back in 94-95. Now he's more like "On Call" at worst and "Part-Time" at the absolute most. While i'm not undermining the work that goes into writing a movie script or getting together some rough plot points for major story arcs since 2013 that's all he's done, 3 movies and bullet points for 4 additional arcs. The man is not working NEARLY as hard as he used to and honestly we're only getting what we do have because he suddenly got the itch again and making more money is hard to pass up.