SSG Gohan?

[Kagari]

I think there's enough Super Saiyan God's around, plus Gohan has made it clear he'd rather be a family person.

No, he made it clear he wanted to get stronger without going down the same paths his dad is.

Yeah he doesn't want to rely on his Saiyan blood to be strong, he wants to be a strong human

The manga line is weird. The anime made it much more clearer: My goal is an ultimate form no one's ever seen before. I'm pursuing that in a different way than you, dad.

Which just means he's gonna keep evolving his Ultimate form (which he has) instead of chasing the Super Saiyan forms.

[Mad Swami]

No, he made it clear he wanted to get stronger without going down the same paths his dad is.

Yeah he doesn't want to rely on his Saiyan blood to be strong, he wants to be a strong human

The manga line is weird. The anime made it much more clearer: My goal is an ultimate form no one's ever seen before. I'm pursuing that in a different way than you, dad.

Which just means he's gonna keep evolving his Ultimate form (which he has) instead of chasing the Super Saiyan forms.

My only main thing really though is if they just say he can't use the power of his ultimate form on top of SSG. Not to mention a god boosted Ultimate form would be insane

[Aim]

I think there's enough Super Saiyan God's around, plus Gohan has made it clear he'd rather be a family person.

No, he made it clear he wanted to get stronger without going down the same paths his dad is.

Gohan at this point is being forced to become a fighter, it's already pretty good he wants to fight as an Earthling, why does he need God? Not only that but if he doesn't need to fight he won't, Gohan deserves to be his own character.

[Kagari]

I think there's enough Super Saiyan God's around, plus Gohan has made it clear he'd rather be a family person.

No, he made it clear he wanted to get stronger without going down the same paths his dad is.

Gohan at this point is being forced to become a fighter, it's already pretty good he wants to fight as an Earthling, why does he need God? Not only that but if he doesn't need to fight he won't, Gohan deserves to be his own character.

He's only ever been forced during the Saiyan arc. Every other time, including as an adult, he chose to fight by his own choice. He's choosing to keep training by his own choice. He is being his own character because he found the balance between staying strong for his family.

[Matches Malone]

There's no in-universe answer to this question, as SsjG is by far the easiest form to get. I think there should've been a rule that states only full blooded Saiyans can get it, but considering BOG wasn't made with sequels in mind, I understand why such a detail was overlooked. Toriyama even stated that any Saiyan can have it, so it boils down to the writers just not wanting to use the character, resulting in him not attaining such power ups.

I definitely prefer the idea of Gohan surpassing his father in his own way, but like other plot points introduced in Super, it hasn't gone anywhere, and probably won't. It's hard to believe that the fighter who killed Cell and was the strongest non-fused character at the end of the manga is now standing on the sidelines with Yamcha. How the mighty have fallen.

[Mad Swami]

There's no in-universe answer to this question, as SsjG is by far the easiest form to get. I think there should've been a rule that states only full blooded Saiyans can get it, but considering BOG wasn't made with sequels in mind, I understand why such a detail was overlooked. Toriyama even stated that any Saiyan can have it, so it boils down to the writers just not wanting to use the character, resulting in him not attaining such power ups.

I definitely prefer the idea of Gohan surpassing his father in his own way, but like other plot points introduced in Super, it hasn't gone anywhere, and probably won't. It's hard to believe that the fighter who killed Cell and was the strongest non-fused character at the end of the manga is now standing on the sidelines with Yamcha. How the mighty have fallen.

Yeah exactly, I just want some excuse. I also want him to do something

[Matches Malone]

I also want him to do something.

DB has a great cast of characters, both old and new, yet nothing's being done with them. Hit is an example of a new character being completely misused. We were told not in one arc, but in two that he's a great assassin who's extremely strong, but can't utilize his abilities due to tournament rules. So when exactly are we going to see them ? Why not just have Zeno make some exception, it wouldn't have been the first time he did that for a cool fight.

[Mad Swami]

I also want him to do something.

DB has a great cast of characters, both old and new, yet nothing's being done with them. Hit is an example of a new character being completely misused. We were told not in one arc, but in two that he's a great assassin who's extremely strong, but can't utilize his abilities due to tournament rules. So when exactly are we going to see them ? Why not just have Zeno make some exception, it wouldn't have been the first time he did that for a cool fight.

Agree

[Aim]

No, he made it clear he wanted to get stronger without going down the same paths his dad is.

Gohan at this point is being forced to become a fighter, it's already pretty good he wants to fight as an Earthling, why does he need God? Not only that but if he doesn't need to fight he won't, Gohan deserves to be his own character.

He's only ever been forced during the Saiyan arc. Every other time, including as an adult, he chose to fight by his own choice. He's choosing to keep training by his own choice. He is being his own character because he found the balance between staying strong for his family.

He's been forced to fight because there was no other way, Goku and Vegeta are getting incredibly powerful, if Gohan doesn't need to fight, he doesn't have to, only when situations call for it, like for example in the Moro Arc at the moment. Gohan doesn't like to fight, it's been established since the very beginning, why do fans want to push this on him? I don't know, beats me because hopefully Gohan will remain his own character instead of a fan service character. God I miss Toriyama.

[Kagari]

Gohan at this point is being forced to become a fighter, it's already pretty good he wants to fight as an Earthling, why does he need God? Not only that but if he doesn't need to fight he won't, Gohan deserves to be his own character.

He's only ever been forced during the Saiyan arc. Every other time, including as an adult, he chose to fight by his own choice. He's choosing to keep training by his own choice. He is being his own character because he found the balance between staying strong for his family.

He's been forced to fight because there was no other way, Goku and Vegeta are getting incredibly powerful, if Gohan doesn't need to fight, he doesn't have to, only when situations call for it, like for example in the Moro Arc at the moment. Gohan doesn't like to fight, it's been established since the very beginning, why do fans want to push this on him? I don't know, beats me because hopefully Gohan will remain his own character instead of a fan service character. God I miss Toriyama.

Goku and Vegeta aren't around all the time and Gohan isn't going to be irresponsible and let something happen to his family/friends. This is part of his character development in Super.

Gohan does like to fight, just not in the same way he dad does. He enjoys martial arts and fighting for sport and will fight to protect people regardless. And it's not fans "pushing it on him" - if you're not fighting, you're not in the story. If the Earth is in danger it's well within his character to step up. Saying it's fanservice is just silly because you could say that about Goku and especially Vegeta too.

I definitely prefer the idea of Gohan surpassing his father in his own way, but like other plot points introduced in Super, it hasn't gone anywhere, and probably won't. It's hard to believe that the fighter who killed Cell and was the strongest non-fused character at the end of the manga is now standing on the sidelines with Yamcha. How the mighty have fallen.

It has gone places though. His Ultimate form can contend with SSB Goku now. That's a massive jump from where it originally was in the Boo arc. And as of the latest manga content, he's only gotten stronger. To say Gohan is "standing on the sidelines" with Yamcha is really disingenuous after how 1) he was treated exceptionally well in the Universe Survival arc, even taking over as Goku's "sidekick" for most of it, 2) became more successful than anything he did in the Boo arc where he was the main character for most of it, and 3) is maintaining the development he had post RoF, being one of the only characters with staying forward development while being a strong, confident and tactical fighter.

And besides, Goku is currently shoved off to the "sidelines" too and has been multiple times. That doesn't mean he's fallen at all.

[Matches Malone]

Goku is currently shoved off to the "sidelines" too and has been multiple times. That doesn't mean he's fallen at all.

When was the last time Gohan got an actual fight with the main villain in Super ? never. In some cases, he wasn't even present at all.

[Kagari]

Goku is currently shoved off to the "sidelines" too and has been multiple times. That doesn't mean he's fallen at all.

When was the last time Gohan got an actual fight with the main villain in Super ? never. In some cases, he wasn't even present at all.

Fighting the "main villain" in a show that didn't really have any in the traditional sense outside of Zamasu doesn't really mean much. It becomes more, can you remove a character from the plot and would anything change? In the case of Gohan in the examples I described, the answer would be no. He was absolutely necessary for the team to win the ToP, for example. That's what makes him more than "Yamcha" as you describe. Basically, being relevant to the plot can mean more than just "fighting the main villain", as is the case in Super and all forms of fictional stories.

[Mad Swami]

Goku is currently shoved off to the "sidelines" too and has been multiple times. That doesn't mean he's fallen at all.

When was the last time Gohan got an actual fight with the main villain in Super ? never. In some cases, he wasn't even present at all.

Fighting the "main villain" in a show that didn't really have any in the traditional sense outside of Zamasu doesn't really mean much. It becomes more, can you remove a character from the plot and would anything change? In the case of Gohan in the examples I described, the answer would be no. He was absolutely necessary for the team to win the ToP, for example. That's what makes him more than "Yamcha" as you describe. Basically, being relevant to the plot can mean more than just "fighting the main villain", as is the case in Super and all forms of fictional stories.

I would have to disagree and say Gohan is pushed to the sidelines. The Yamcha comparison was probably an exaggeration. However he still does not participate in any of the arcs as much as he should. Future Trunks arc would have been a great opportunity for Gohan to help out seeing as Trunks cares deeply for Gohan. Yet he doesn't. Frieza arc they just reset all his progress, U6 Tournament he is too weak to be invited, and in T.O.P he either has a decent sized fight with Kefla which is good seeing as Kefla was a large threat.....Or he just fights Dyspo in a decent scene with Frieza. Now in the Moro arc he is actually doing great things I think. So maybe he can be saved?

[Kagari]

When was the last time Gohan got an actual fight with the main villain in Super ? never. In some cases, he wasn't even present at all.

Fighting the "main villain" in a show that didn't really have any in the traditional sense outside of Zamasu doesn't really mean much. It becomes more, can you remove a character from the plot and would anything change? In the case of Gohan in the examples I described, the answer would be no. He was absolutely necessary for the team to win the ToP, for example. That's what makes him more than "Yamcha" as you describe. Basically, being relevant to the plot can mean more than just "fighting the main villain", as is the case in Super and all forms of fictional stories.

I would have to disagree and say Gohan is pushed to the sidelines. The Yamcha comparison was probably an exaggeration. However he still does not participate in any of the arcs as much as he should. Future Trunks arc would have been a great opportunity for Gohan to help out seeing as Trunks cares deeply for Gohan. Yet he doesn't. Frieza arc they just reset all his progress, U6 Tournament he is too weak to be invited, and in T.O.P he either has a decent sized fight with Kefla which is good seeing as Kefla was a large threat.....Or he just fights Dyspo in a decent scene with Frieza. Now in the Moro arc he is actually doing great things I think. So maybe he can be saved?

The Trunks arc is probably the biggest outlier, but it's not Gohan's fault the writing was abysmal. U6 is a big fat nothing except for Hit so it's whatever, IMO, and in the anime Gohan did actually want to participate. He was never "too weak", he just had a prior commitment and it wasn't a serious situation. Like I said, he has a big role in the anime version of the US arc. He's there alongside Goku from the very beginning and even before that he's back as a regular character in the episodes immediately following the Trunks arc - even getting his own Saiyaman mini arc in the process. You can discount Dyspo all you want but he was still part of the main U11 trio who damaged and nearly eliminated both Hit and Golden Freeza. Even Piccolo says if Gohan hadn't taken them out their team would have been in trouble. On top of that Gohan, at least in the anime version, does a lot in the US arc. Even if you don't like what he did, objectively he was very active in that arc.

[Mad Swami]

Fighting the "main villain" in a show that didn't really have any in the traditional sense outside of Zamasu doesn't really mean much. It becomes more, can you remove a character from the plot and would anything change? In the case of Gohan in the examples I described, the answer would be no. He was absolutely necessary for the team to win the ToP, for example. That's what makes him more than "Yamcha" as you describe. Basically, being relevant to the plot can mean more than just "fighting the main villain", as is the case in Super and all forms of fictional stories.

I would have to disagree and say Gohan is pushed to the sidelines. The Yamcha comparison was probably an exaggeration. However he still does not participate in any of the arcs as much as he should. Future Trunks arc would have been a great opportunity for Gohan to help out seeing as Trunks cares deeply for Gohan. Yet he doesn't. Frieza arc they just reset all his progress, U6 Tournament he is too weak to be invited, and in T.O.P he either has a decent sized fight with Kefla which is good seeing as Kefla was a large threat.....Or he just fights Dyspo in a decent scene with Frieza. Now in the Moro arc he is actually doing great things I think. So maybe he can be saved?

The Trunks arc is probably the biggest outlier, but it's not Gohan's fault the writing was abysmal. U6 is a big fat nothing except for Hit so it's whatever, IMO, and in the anime Gohan did actually want to participate. He was never "too weak", he just had a prior commitment and it wasn't a serious situation. Like I said, he has a big role in the anime version of the US arc. He's there alongside Goku from the very beginning and even before that he's back as a regular character in the episodes immediately following the Trunks arc - even getting his own Saiyaman mini arc in the process. You can discount Dyspo all you want but he was still part of the main U11 trio who damaged and nearly eliminated both Hit and Golden Freeza. Even Piccolo says if Gohan hadn't taken them out their team would have been in trouble. On top of that Gohan, at least in the anime version, does a lot in the US arc. Even if you don't like what he did, objectively he was very active in that arc.

I love Dyspo, but honestly with Jiren and Toppo surpassing Blue level, it takes away from his accomplishments. He does a decent bit, his fight with the Namekians was great, only real issue is that he doesn't have much going on character wise. His cool showcase mean little for his character. Then again so does Vegeta so I guess thats not fair of me to say

[Kagari]

I would have to disagree and say Gohan is pushed to the sidelines. The Yamcha comparison was probably an exaggeration. However he still does not participate in any of the arcs as much as he should. Future Trunks arc would have been a great opportunity for Gohan to help out seeing as Trunks cares deeply for Gohan. Yet he doesn't. Frieza arc they just reset all his progress, U6 Tournament he is too weak to be invited, and in T.O.P he either has a decent sized fight with Kefla which is good seeing as Kefla was a large threat.....Or he just fights Dyspo in a decent scene with Frieza. Now in the Moro arc he is actually doing great things I think. So maybe he can be saved?

The Trunks arc is probably the biggest outlier, but it's not Gohan's fault the writing was abysmal. U6 is a big fat nothing except for Hit so it's whatever, IMO, and in the anime Gohan did actually want to participate. He was never "too weak", he just had a prior commitment and it wasn't a serious situation. Like I said, he has a big role in the anime version of the US arc. He's there alongside Goku from the very beginning and even before that he's back as a regular character in the episodes immediately following the Trunks arc - even getting his own Saiyaman mini arc in the process. You can discount Dyspo all you want but he was still part of the main U11 trio who damaged and nearly eliminated both Hit and Golden Freeza. Even Piccolo says if Gohan hadn't taken them out their team would have been in trouble. On top of that Gohan, at least in the anime version, does a lot in the US arc. Even if you don't like what he did, objectively he was very active in that arc.

I love Dyspo, but honestly with Jiren and Toppo surpassing Blue level, it takes away from his accomplishments. He does a decent bit, his fight with the Namekians was great, only real issue is that he doesn't have much going on character wise. His cool showcase mean little for his character. Then again so does Vegeta so I guess thats not fair of me to say

I don't agree that it takes away from his accomplishments. Without removing Dyspo, they wouldn't have won. To say Gohan doesn't have much going on character wise isn't right either. He's the only one of the main Saiyans to see any development in that arc, which stems from shedding his arrogance to become a strong, confident and successful fighter while setting aside mercy to get things done. He takes on a leadership and tactical role all of which comes full circle when he saves Piccolo from the Namekians. He's in a good place right now, having found the balance between maintaining those strengths and being there for his family/personal goals.

[Mad Swami]

The Trunks arc is probably the biggest outlier, but it's not Gohan's fault the writing was abysmal. U6 is a big fat nothing except for Hit so it's whatever, IMO, and in the anime Gohan did actually want to participate. He was never "too weak", he just had a prior commitment and it wasn't a serious situation. Like I said, he has a big role in the anime version of the US arc. He's there alongside Goku from the very beginning and even before that he's back as a regular character in the episodes immediately following the Trunks arc - even getting his own Saiyaman mini arc in the process. You can discount Dyspo all you want but he was still part of the main U11 trio who damaged and nearly eliminated both Hit and Golden Freeza. Even Piccolo says if Gohan hadn't taken them out their team would have been in trouble. On top of that Gohan, at least in the anime version, does a lot in the US arc. Even if you don't like what he did, objectively he was very active in that arc.

I love Dyspo, but honestly with Jiren and Toppo surpassing Blue level, it takes away from his accomplishments. He does a decent bit, his fight with the Namekians was great, only real issue is that he doesn't have much going on character wise. His cool showcase mean little for his character. Then again so does Vegeta so I guess thats not fair of me to say

I don't agree that it takes away from his accomplishments. Without removing Dyspo, they wouldn't have won. To say Gohan doesn't have much going on character wise isn't right either. He's the only one of the main Saiyans to see any development in that arc, which stems from shedding his arrogance to become a strong, confident and successful fighter while setting aside mercy to get things done. He takes on a leadership and tactical role all of which comes full circle when he saves Piccolo from the Namekians. He's in a good place right now, having found the balance between maintaining those strengths and being there for his family/personal goals.

But the only characters that listen to him as a leader get taken out first. Piccolo, Tien, Krillin, and Roshi. Not to mention he doesn't change through the arc, he is the same at his fight with Goku SSBKK to his fight with Dyspo. Only difference is Frieza sees him as being better than he thought.

[Kagari]

I love Dyspo, but honestly with Jiren and Toppo surpassing Blue level, it takes away from his accomplishments. He does a decent bit, his fight with the Namekians was great, only real issue is that he doesn't have much going on character wise. His cool showcase mean little for his character. Then again so does Vegeta so I guess thats not fair of me to say

I don't agree that it takes away from his accomplishments. Without removing Dyspo, they wouldn't have won. To say Gohan doesn't have much going on character wise isn't right either. He's the only one of the main Saiyans to see any development in that arc, which stems from shedding his arrogance to become a strong, confident and successful fighter while setting aside mercy to get things done. He takes on a leadership and tactical role all of which comes full circle when he saves Piccolo from the Namekians. He's in a good place right now, having found the balance between maintaining those strengths and being there for his family/personal goals.

But the only characters that listen to him as a leader get taken out first. Piccolo, Tien, Krillin, and Roshi. Not to mention he doesn't change through the arc, he is the same at his fight with Goku SSBKK to his fight with Dyspo. Only difference is Frieza sees him as being better than he thought.

The others start following his lead after Piccolo goes out against the robots and during the fight with U11, which is fine. He didn't have to protect Piccolo anymore, and before that Goku does use some of the strategies that Gohan came up with with him. Gohan even gets Freeza of all people to follow his plans, which is a stark contrast from what happened during their encounter in RoF.

He does change through the arc. His development begins before the tournament even starts where, as I mentioned, Piccolo beats it into him that he needs to put his heart into it and shed his arrogance. He puts those developments into practice during the tournament proper. But he definitely ends the arc having gone through those developments that started well before.

[Mad Swami]

I don't agree that it takes away from his accomplishments. Without removing Dyspo, they wouldn't have won. To say Gohan doesn't have much going on character wise isn't right either. He's the only one of the main Saiyans to see any development in that arc, which stems from shedding his arrogance to become a strong, confident and successful fighter while setting aside mercy to get things done. He takes on a leadership and tactical role all of which comes full circle when he saves Piccolo from the Namekians. He's in a good place right now, having found the balance between maintaining those strengths and being there for his family/personal goals.

But the only characters that listen to him as a leader get taken out first. Piccolo, Tien, Krillin, and Roshi. Not to mention he doesn't change through the arc, he is the same at his fight with Goku SSBKK to his fight with Dyspo. Only difference is Frieza sees him as being better than he thought.

The others start following his lead after Piccolo goes out against the robots and during the fight with U11, which is fine. He didn't have to protect Piccolo anymore, and before that Goku does use some of the strategies that Gohan came up with with him. Gohan even gets Freeza of all people to follow his plans, which is a stark contrast from what happened during their encounter in RoF.

He does change through the arc. His development begins before the tournament even starts where, as I mentioned, Piccolo beats it into him that he needs to put his heart into it and shed his arrogance. He puts those developments into practice during the tournament proper. But he definitely ends the arc having gone through those developments that started well before.

Doesn't Frieza come up with that plan? And what strategies does Goku use, I remember him using Krillin's Destructo Disc stratagy but not one of Gohan's.

Not to mention, he isn't arrogant in the tournament. By that point he is way more calm and focused. Gohan's Dyspo moment was good I don't not like it, but it's just not fair to say he really was a major player. His more important part was fighting Toppo with 17 honestly.

But I guess that's better than what they do with Vegeta

[Kagari]

But the only characters that listen to him as a leader get taken out first. Piccolo, Tien, Krillin, and Roshi. Not to mention he doesn't change through the arc, he is the same at his fight with Goku SSBKK to his fight with Dyspo. Only difference is Frieza sees him as being better than he thought.

The others start following his lead after Piccolo goes out against the robots and during the fight with U11, which is fine. He didn't have to protect Piccolo anymore, and before that Goku does use some of the strategies that Gohan came up with with him. Gohan even gets Freeza of all people to follow his plans, which is a stark contrast from what happened during their encounter in RoF.

He does change through the arc. His development begins before the tournament even starts where, as I mentioned, Piccolo beats it into him that he needs to put his heart into it and shed his arrogance. He puts those developments into practice during the tournament proper. But he definitely ends the arc having gone through those developments that started well before.

Doesn't Frieza come up with that plan? And what strategies does Goku use, I remember him using Krillin's Destructo Disc stratagy but not one of Gohan's.

Not to mention, he isn't arrogant in the tournament. By that point he is way more calm and focused. Gohan's Dyspo moment was good I don't not like it, but it's just not fair to say he really was a major player. His more important part was fighting Toppo with 17 honestly.

But I guess that's better than what they do with Vegeta

No, Gohan comes up with the plan to trap Dyspo. The other strategies Goku specifically mentions such as creating a barrier to counter the U9 team or how to specifically beat Botamo, for example. There's a lot of bits and pieces in the dialogue that can be easily missed.

Again, Gohan sheds the arrogance so he can be confident in the tournament itself, that's the development. Said development comes full circle when it's Piccolo who falters doing the same thing he chastised Gohan for and it's Gohan who ends up saving him in a brilliant role reversal. There's that and other scenes such as the elimination of U10 that show Gohan having to set aside mercy to get things done. Even though it conflicts with his nature, he knows he has to follow through.

How can he not be a major player when he eliminated one of the U11 big three, the likes of which would have taken out Freeza if Gohan hadn't saved him, and if allowed to run free, would have amounted to U7's loss.