SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings?

[Aim]

Yes, the fallout of all of FUNimation's (even sometimes ancient) changes do still affect us on a daily basis, and "just go watch it in Japanese, then!" does not suffice as a conversation-ender. As a community built around documentation and history, we are constantly pushing up against all of their changes and initiatives with questions, misconceptions, bad external wikis, clickbait news sites, meme-filled corporate accounts, etc. That stuff imprinted itself on many people at a young age, and it won't go away. WE are watching it in Japanese; that's literally the problem for other people!

I'm sure I have more I could add, but I wanted to keep it relatively concise while also putting a foot down on certain things.

I struggle with talking about Dragon Ball with my close friend because they only watch the old Z dub, first time seeing it as well, and they chose that one for some reason over Kai. I was in the car today and they said that Freeza is immature like a man-child....oh it's hard to have conversations when stuff like that comes up.

Everyone can have their toys and play them with in their own private spaces, but when you try to come to my house and destroy and ruin my toys, that's where the problem lies. "U WEEB GOKU SOUNDS LIKE AN OLD LADY" Now you listen here, punk...

That's gotta be my biggest problem I have with people, insulting Masako Nozawa like that, not only has the dub attracted misconceptions, but it's attracted toxicity as well. :-/

I’m not trying to badmouth people like Steve Simmons when I say that. The guy does a very good job with translating the dialogue faithfully, but if a bunch of English speaking voice actors were to read out that dialogue, it wouldn’t sound natural, in my opinion. I don’t watch much anime, but in my experience, that’s a problem I have when I’m reading subs in general. Maybe that’s just me.

To be clear, that’s by no means me saying that subs are “stupid” or anything. I didn’t even bother watching that much of Super in English, because the subs were enough for me. For what it’s worth, I’ll also say that I agree that lines like “time to make the donuts” are pretty dumb, and I don’t care for names like “Top”.

Is Top isn't inaccurate though, is it? If so, they then are deliberately butchering names like Kafla to Kefla. The dialogues aren't all that awkward, and they can be rearranged even a tiny bit and it'll sound fine and still be faithful.

I agree. It's like with Goku's YURU SANAI (or however you spell it) catchphrase. Neither the subs nor dubs keep the same translation, even though Goku says the same thing every time. It's been translated to everything from "I won't let you get away with this" to "I won't forgive you", "This is unforgivable", etc. The latter is the most accurate, but anyone saying that in English would sound awkward and cringeworthy as hell, which is why it's used mainly in the subtitles and almost never in dubs, and rightfully so IMO. It's a Japanese idiom that doesn't translate very well to English, so what's the "correct" answer when translating it?

It's true what you're saying, however, these things most of the time can be solved by choosing the closest translation based on the situation, like when it comes to Yuru Sanai, "I won't forgive you!", "I won't let you get away with this!", "I won't back down!"(?), they could be acceptable based on the situation in the scene.

[ArmenianPepsi]

....To be honest, though, Funi's dubbing is still tolerable, serviceable, watchable... If you can't/won't watch subbed, you're not going to have a completely bastardised experience like you would if you watched their pre-Kai dubs. But there's absolutely no reason why Funi should still be pulling the shit they've been pulling, and it burns me to see people defending this shit. Yes, Funi aren't as bad as they were, and their dub is serviceable now, but they should be better, and it's ridiculous that after 25 years with the franchise, this is the best they can do.

Very aptly put. That's more or less how I feel on the matter of how somebody views the series. To me it's up to your personal preference, if you like subs, you win. If you like the dub, you win too. No point in flinging poo like apes over how somebody likes to watch their anime. I hate people who get so hostile over it, and try to shame people with the whole "You're not a REAL fan if you don't ABC or XYZ" shtick. Now yes, if the dub is totally terrible, then by all means i'll tell them that they are indeed watching a bastardized cut of it, but i'll still try not to be a jerk about it. DBZ dubbed, in my opinion, is an adequate way to watch and enjoy the show.

But yes, it deserves better. A full 291 episode re-dub would be satisfactory for such a popular show, but unless the corporate powers that be say that it would be a nice way to make a quick buck from the brand, the chances of it actually happening are slim to none.

Spoiler:

Now DB dubbed on the other hand is a totally different beast, since it never got the luxary of any sort of re-do to my information.

[jjgp1112]

busting out the "snowflake" tells me exactly what I'm dealing with. And yes assuming that you know what's good for people because you think watching the japanese version means you're superior absolutely makes you a passive aggressive asshole. You don't give a shit about Dragon Ball, you're just gatekeeping because you think it makes you special. Because "wah wah wah" how dare Funimation not cater to my whims at all times. Because the easy answer to all of this is and will continue to be, "just watch the fucking subs." That's what it is there for. Which makes this whole argument that Funimation is ruining the reputation of DBZ because Sean Schemmel didn't say "SAIYA-JIN" some absolutely elitist nonsense. Most people do not care. Not because they're brainwashed, not because evil Funimation is hiding hem the truth, but because they sincerely enjoy the dub. They know very well that they can simply watch the Japanese version whenever, they choose not to because they don't care.

Talking about "preserving" the franchise for a younger generation? Jesus christ, you're full of yourself. That's some toxic fan bullshit, and it really shouldn't have any place in this forum.

That's the big disconnect in these discussions. A lot of these people on the dub side just straight up don't care. I can't speak for every dub fan but I'm more of a take everything as they come type of person. I'd rather things be accurate but I also don't care about changes that don't bother me. And I think people who aren't already exposed to the original will have an even stronger version of that mentality.

Shit it goes both ways, as I know a ton of people who grew up on DBZ on Toonami, watched the Orange Bricks, and never once think to turn on the dub score or even notice something's off with the music. Most people just aren't that concerned about perceived changes (even if the change is correct in my example ) By that same token, that's why I'd be all for Funi switching up the more inaccurate terminology...but now that I actually work on the marketing side of things, I understand why they'd be averse to that type of shit.

[jjgp1112]

Is Super that inaccurate? I thought they were beyond that, which is why I only watched Super dubbed. Dragon Ball, Z, and GT really are the only animes that I've watched subbed because 1) I expect others to be translated well, 2) I am always doing something else while it's on.

Super dub has its moments for sure but its overall accuracy or inaccuracy is greatly exaggerated by the fanbase. You're not missing anything important by watching it dub only. Don't trust any "this is just like the old dub!" take basically.

[TheGreatness25]

Is Super that inaccurate? I thought they were beyond that, which is why I only watched Super dubbed. Dragon Ball, Z, and GT really are the only animes that I've watched subbed because 1) I expect others to be translated well, 2) I am always doing something else while it's on.

Super dub has its moments for sure but its overall accuracy or inaccuracy is greatly exaggerated by the fanbase. You're not missing anything important by watching it dub only. Don't trust any "this is just like the old dub!" take basically.

Hey, thanks for that answer. If it comes down to people still being incredibly upset that Chris Sabat isn't screaming "Makankosappo" and Freeza's name atill having a certain "IE" combination in his name, that's fine (because I know what it's supposed to be). But even Kai isn't impervious to that, and the Kai dub is praised overall. The Kai dub also takes lots of liberties -- must be the nature of dubbing. But I'm glad you told me that, because to be quite honest, there's only a handful of anime that I enjoy and DB/Z/GT is the only one that I loved so much, that I just had to watch it in Japanese (and really, only because of how different it is to the dub). By Kai and Super, I expected it to at least be completely translated so that I didn't have to really sit down and focus on it.

Thanks for breaking it down a little for me!

[Aim]

By that same token, that's why I'd be all for Funi switching up the more inaccurate terminology...but now that I actually work on the marketing side of things, I understand why they'd be averse to that type of shit.

They did it once, they stopped half way through Kai, I'm still yet to see evidence it's based on marketing, I highly doubt the majority of people watching Kai were from the 90's/early 2000's on Cartoon Network, this was time for a fresh start.

That's the big disconnect in these discussions. A lot of these people on the dub side just straight up don't care. I can't speak for every dub fan but I'm more of a take everything as they come type of person. I'd rather things be accurate but I also don't care about changes that don't bother me. And I think people who aren't already exposed to the original will have an even stronger version of that mentality.

Shit it goes both ways, as I know a ton of people who grew up on DBZ on Toonami, watched the Orange Bricks, and never once think to turn on the dub score or even notice something's off with the music. Most people just aren't that concerned about perceived changes (even if the change is correct in my example ) By that same token, that's why I'd be all for Funi switching up the more inaccurate terminology...but now that I actually work on the marketing side of things, I understand why they'd be averse to that type of shit.

The biggest disconnect is the fact that people see nothing wrong with taking a series and completely westernizing it. People don't care because they either don't know Dragon Ball, or they are blinded by nostalgia. As I've stated before, tones, dialogue, can lead to characters being drastically changed, if you watch Funimation's Super and then say it's not that different from the original Super, you're straight up lying. I personally think you're shitting on a franchise you claim to love by stating "it doesn't matter if they change it". Now I'd understand if you guys meant that in a way to change things up for the better, but it's crystal clear judging by your last few posts you don't.

There's nothing wrong with wanting an accurate dub, and no one is shitting on you or Kemuri for liking it, in fact, Kemuri is shitting on us for wanting the series to have some justice done to it, because like the majority of the "I'm not like the others in this fandom!", all they do is indirectly insult and pull strawman arguments out because we American's just do it so much better than those JAPS, right? The catered fans are the oldies, in which I'm one of them, it's just that I care enough to want to have the series done justice, I'm not a fan of the overly cocky Son Goku who's incredibly douchey and not the least bit humble.

Super dub has its moments for sure but its overall accuracy or inaccuracy is greatly exaggerated by the fanbase. You're not missing anything important by watching it dub only. Don't trust any "this is just like the old dub!" take basically.

Hey, thanks for that answer. If it comes down to people still being incredibly upset that Chris Sabat isn't screaming "Makankosappo" and Freeza's name atill having a certain "IE" combination in his name, that's fine (because I know what it's supposed to be). But even Kai isn't impervious to that, and the Kai dub is praised overall. The Kai dub also takes lots of liberties -- must be the nature of dubbing. But I'm glad you told me that, because to be quite honest, there's only a handful of anime that I enjoy and DB/Z/GT is the only one that I loved so much, that I just had to watch it in Japanese (and really, only because of how different it is to the dub). By Kai and Super, I expected it to at least be completely translated so that I didn't have to really sit down and focus on it.

Thanks for breaking it down a little for me!

All you have to do is look at some of the examples I had in the post, and most people, possibly including yourself, will see a stark difference in how characters are presented and in some instances, portrayed. This isn't a dubbing issue, this is an issue that the West has, being so entitled to the point of adding things that don't need to be there.

The whole 'exaggeration' argument is almost non-existent, I haven't seen anyone bring up any complaint unreasonable for Dragon Ball the way it is presented in the West., the problem lies in the fact there's a unbelievable amount of disdain the West has for the original source of foreign shows. This can literally be seen all over the fandom, and honestly makes me wonder if at least 40% of the fandom are rednecks in the hills aggravated at the sound of a Japanese anime character because they are male in the show, but are given life by the voice of usually females in real life.

Wanting a show to be accurate isn't entitled, it's the opposite of that. Wanting a show to keep large elements from a time when anime was really done dirty is entitlement, and it reeks all over our fandom, which is ironic, because the comments and excuses people usually give is something I'd not expect to hear from none other than the West, in fact, it's something I'd once expect to hear from countries like Japan, which speaks volumes about the kind of people this "spiced up" Dragon Ball as attracted.

[TheGreatness25]

Spoiler:

By that same token, that's why I'd be all for Funi switching up the more inaccurate terminology...but now that I actually work on the marketing side of things, I understand why they'd be averse to that type of shit.

They did it once, they stopped half way through Kai, I'm still yet to see evidence it's based on marketing, I highly doubt the majority of people watching Kai were from the 90's/early 2000's on Cartoon Network, this was time for a fresh start.

That's the big disconnect in these discussions. A lot of these people on the dub side just straight up don't care. I can't speak for every dub fan but I'm more of a take everything as they come type of person. I'd rather things be accurate but I also don't care about changes that don't bother me. And I think people who aren't already exposed to the original will have an even stronger version of that mentality.

Shit it goes both ways, as I know a ton of people who grew up on DBZ on Toonami, watched the Orange Bricks, and never once think to turn on the dub score or even notice something's off with the music. Most people just aren't that concerned about perceived changes (even if the change is correct in my example ) By that same token, that's why I'd be all for Funi switching up the more inaccurate terminology...but now that I actually work on the marketing side of things, I understand why they'd be averse to that type of shit.

The biggest disconnect is the fact that people see nothing wrong with taking a series and completely westernizing it. People don't care because they either don't know Dragon Ball, or they are blinded by nostalgia. As I've stated before, tones, dialogue, can lead to characters being drastically changed, if you watch Funimation's Super and then say it's not that different from the original Super, you're straight up lying. I personally think you're shitting on a franchise you claim to love by stating "it doesn't matter if they change it". Now I'd understand if you guys meant that in a way to change things up for the better, but it's crystal clear judging by your last few posts you don't.

There's nothing wrong with wanting an accurate dub, and no one is shitting on you or Kemuri for liking it, in fact, Kemuri is shitting on us for wanting the series to have some justice done to it, because like the majority of the "I'm not like the others in this fandom!", all they do is indirectly insult and pull strawman arguments out because we American's just do it so much better than those JAPS, right? The catered fans are the oldies, in which I'm one of them, it's just that I care enough to want to have the series done justice, I'm not a fan of the overly cocky Son Goku who's incredibly douchey and not the least bit humble.

Super dub has its moments for sure but its overall accuracy or inaccuracy is greatly exaggerated by the fanbase. You're not missing anything important by watching it dub only. Don't trust any "this is just like the old dub!" take basically.

Hey, thanks for that answer. If it comes down to people still being incredibly upset that Chris Sabat isn't screaming "Makankosappo" and Freeza's name atill having a certain "IE" combination in his name, that's fine (because I know what it's supposed to be). But even Kai isn't impervious to that, and the Kai dub is praised overall. The Kai dub also takes lots of liberties -- must be the nature of dubbing. But I'm glad you told me that, because to be quite honest, there's only a handful of anime that I enjoy and DB/Z/GT is the only one that I loved so much, that I just had to watch it in Japanese (and really, only because of how different it is to the dub). By Kai and Super, I expected it to at least be completely translated so that I didn't have to really sit down and focus on it.

Thanks for breaking it down a little for me!

All you have to do is look at some of the examples I had in the post, and most people, possibly including yourself, will see a stark difference in how characters are presented and in some instances, portrayed. This isn't a dubbing issue, this is an issue that the West has, being so entitled to the point of adding things that don't need to be there.

The whole 'exaggeration' argument is almost non-existent, I haven't seen anyone bring up any complaint unreasonable for Dragon Ball the way it is presented in the West., the problem lies in the fact there's a unbelievable amount of disdain the West has for the original source of foreign shows. This can literally be seen all over the fandom, and honestly makes me wonder if at least 40% of the fandom are rednecks in the hills aggravated at the sound of a Japanese anime character because they are male in the show, but are given life by the voice of usually females in real life.

Wanting a show to be accurate isn't entitled, it's the opposite of that. Wanting a show to keep large elements from a time when anime was really done dirty is entitlement, and it reeks all over our fandom, which is ironic, because the comments and excuses people usually give is something I'd not expect to hear from none other than the West, in fact, it's something I'd once expect to hear from countries like Japan, which speaks volumes about the kind of people this "spiced up" Dragon Ball as attracted.

If you're referring to the name changes, the majority of that stuff came about from the dark ages of anime in the US. And please give some consideration to the fact that over a decade of fans were raised with that tragic monstrosity of a dub by the time Kai rolled around. And whether you believe it's right or wrong, they have their story that they know, that they've seen, that they've played video games of, etc. I'm perfectly fine with a little nod in Kai of "Makankosappo" or "Kienzan" and whatnot because no matter how much Chris Sabatv shouts "Special.Beam Cannon," I know what it's supposed to be.

This argument about the west and how they change everything is kind of lame, to be honest. I don't think that the overwhelming majority of anime gets treated that way today and if Dragon Ball came out today, neither would it.

But I really think that Funimation's hands are tied with Dragon Ball because it has to continuously sleep in the bed that it made when it didn't know its ass from its elbow regarding dubbing. Far too much material and products have come out from that poor attempt at a dub, that those things became the norm. So much so, that Toei is using dubisms in their official English products.

I realize that you're upset by it all -- I realize that a lot of people are upset by it. It's not wrong to be. But examples I've seen of Super "going back to Funimation's old ways" is name spellings, which is kind of a joke. "Why Kefla, why not Kafla??" I don't know, but it doesn't change the story.

[jjgp1112]

The Super dub also takes liberties with jokes and stuff like that, but aside from a ludicrously stupid moment with Hit none of them are in any significant scenes or detract from the story any bit. Mostly scenes that were already humorous or light to begin with.

[kemuri07]

busting out the "snowflake" tells me exactly what I'm dealing with. And yes assuming that you know what's good for people because you think watching the japanese version means you're superior absolutely makes you a passive aggressive asshole. You don't give a shit about Dragon Ball, you're just gatekeeping because you think it makes you special. Because "wah wah wah" how dare Funimation not cater to my whims at all times. Because the easy answer to all of this is and will continue to be, "just watch the fucking subs." That's what it is there for. Which makes this whole argument that Funimation is ruining the reputation of DBZ because Sean Schemmel didn't say "SAIYA-JIN" some absolutely elitist nonsense. Most people do not care. Not because they're brainwashed, not because evil Funimation is hiding hem the truth, but because they sincerely enjoy the dub. They know very well that they can simply watch the Japanese version whenever, they choose not to because they don't care.

Talking about "preserving" the franchise for a younger generation? Jesus christ, you're full of yourself. That's some toxic fan bullshit, and it really shouldn't have any place in this forum.

That's the big disconnect in these discussions. A lot of these people on the dub side just straight up don't care. I can't speak for every dub fan but I'm more of a take everything as they come type of person. I'd rather things be accurate but I also don't care about changes that don't bother me. And I think people who aren't already exposed to the original will have an even stronger version of that mentality.

Shit it goes both ways, as I know a ton of people who grew up on DBZ on Toonami, watched the Orange Bricks, and never once think to turn on the dub score or even notice something's off with the music. Most people just aren't that concerned about perceived changes (even if the change is correct in my example ) By that same token, that's why I'd be all for Funi switching up the more inaccurate terminology...but now that I actually work on the marketing side of things, I understand why they'd be averse to that type of shit.

More importantly, DBZ is in a much weirder spot than a large majority of other anime because of when it got popular. Not just popular, but like megafucking popular. If Spongebob was #1 in the states kids, Dragon Ball Z was a distant second. So there are plenty of terms that have solidified within pop culture that just isn't going to go away. It's similar how aspects of the American version of Pokemon still exists even today in both the anime/video game. So Funimation often has to split the difference in making a dub that still appeals to the sort of viewer that watched DBZ through toonami, and isn't interested in watching the japanese version. That's the primary audience for an english dub.

And you're dead-on about the marketing angle. It just doesn't make any sense for them to put out another dub (which costs time and money) that is "more accurate" when so much of the marketing for the anime/video games/card game/etc etc absolutely reflect how most American audience perceive the franchise anyways. It's not a good investment

That's the problem with threads like this that live in a sort of echochamber, entirely disconnected for reality. People who watch dub only are not missing out on DBZ. And while the average person might not be able to do a deep dive on the show--so what? That's the case for most fandom.

[linkdude20002001]

Okay, I get it, Sun Wukong, the character Son Goku is loosely based on, though why is it that before it was referred 'properly' to Son Goku and now Sun Goku? If they think this is what being accurate is, then why is everything so inconsistent? Son Goku isn't Sun Goku, may as well call him Sun Wukong then.

"Sun" in "Sun Wukong" isn't pronounced like the English word "Sun". It's pronounced with a U-sound, so it sounds like the English word "soon".

[Super Sonic]

busting out the "snowflake" tells me exactly what I'm dealing with. And yes assuming that you know what's good for people because you think watching the japanese version means you're superior absolutely makes you a passive aggressive asshole. You don't give a shit about Dragon Ball, you're just gatekeeping because you think it makes you special. Because "wah wah wah" how dare Funimation not cater to my whims at all times. Because the easy answer to all of this is and will continue to be, "just watch the fucking subs." That's what it is there for. Which makes this whole argument that Funimation is ruining the reputation of DBZ because Sean Schemmel didn't say "SAIYA-JIN" some absolutely elitist nonsense. Most people do not care. Not because they're brainwashed, not because evil Funimation is hiding hem the truth, but because they sincerely enjoy the dub. They know very well that they can simply watch the Japanese version whenever, they choose not to because they don't care.

Talking about "preserving" the franchise for a younger generation? Jesus christ, you're full of yourself. That's some toxic fan bullshit, and it really shouldn't have any place in this forum.

That's the big disconnect in these discussions. A lot of these people on the dub side just straight up don't care. I can't speak for every dub fan but I'm more of a take everything as they come type of person. I'd rather things be accurate but I also don't care about changes that don't bother me. And I think people who aren't already exposed to the original will have an even stronger version of that mentality.

Shit it goes both ways, as I know a ton of people who grew up on DBZ on Toonami, watched the Orange Bricks, and never once think to turn on the dub score or even notice something's off with the music. Most people just aren't that concerned about perceived changes (even if the change is correct in my example ) By that same token, that's why I'd be all for Funi switching up the more inaccurate terminology...but now that I actually work on the marketing side of things, I understand why they'd be averse to that type of shit.

More importantly, DBZ is in a much weirder spot than a large majority of other anime because of when it got popular. Not just popular, but like megafucking popular. If Spongebob was #1 in the states kids, Dragon Ball Z was a distant second. So there are plenty of terms that have solidified within pop culture that just isn't going to go away. It's similar how aspects of the American version of Pokemon still exists even today in both the anime/video game. So Funimation often has to split the difference in making a dub that still appeals to the sort of viewer that watched DBZ through toonami, and isn't interested in watching the japanese version. That's the primary audience for an english dub.

Also with Pokemon, there's the language difference of things that make quite a few name changes necessary. In Japanese the ones that are just English words are punny, but in English, it sounds lame. I'd also say quite a few of those names have become solidified in the way that the Speed Racer movie had those terms and not "Mach a Go Go" names. Or with another example, while I haven't watched the last 3 seasons of Voltron Legendary Defender (and no spoilers please), they used Keith, Lance, Pidge and Hunk, instead of Chief, Moody, Shorty and Hothead. Was anyone expecting them to be used?

[Aim]

If you're referring to the name changes, the majority of that stuff came about from the dark ages of anime in the US. And please give some consideration to the fact that over a decade of fans were raised with that tragic monstrosity of a dub by the time Kai rolled around. And whether you believe it's right or wrong, they have their story that they know, that they've seen, that they've played video games of, etc. I'm perfectly fine with a little nod in Kai of "Makankosappo" or "Kienzan" and whatnot because no matter how much Chris Sabatv shouts "Special.Beam Cannon," I know what it's supposed to be.

No, not so much was I referring to the name changes, that's actually quite a small thing, and even then, there's no harm in properly translating it. Let's just leave the names out of it for a second, what I was referring to was the section of my post where I compare clips of the series.

Tone and dialogue goes a very long way, and when Funimation goes out of their way to change things up for no reason at all, that's when the biggest issue comes in.

Names aren't so much a big deal. but I feel they should at least be translated properly, if they're going to say "Kefla", they might as well call Kakarot, "Kakarotto". It doesn't make sense.

And please give some consideration to the fact that over a decade of fans were raised with that tragic monstrosity of a dub by the time Kai rolled around. And whether you believe it's right or wrong, they have their story that they know, that they've seen, that they've played video games of, etc.

Dragon Ball's popularity had dropped considerably even when Kai came out, there was a new audience, they need to be taken into consideration as well. Please, read my post, I grew up with Dragon Ball, I went through that 'dark age', I went through the games and everything, I can look past that, that's the story I know, once knew, but you know what? It's ended. There's no reason to keep dragging out an age that should have come and gone by now. Anyone who prefers the old dub and everything with it, is perfectly entitled to that opinion, however, slamming on fans who want to be rid of that nonsense in today's 'modern' Dragon Ball is entitled and selfish.

I actually hated the Japanese when I was little, I still remember when I first heard it, I thought it was terrible, but as I got into the story more later on, I actually started seeing that magic that Dragon Ball had, from the very early days, all the way to Super, and while I accept what Dragon Ball was in the past, I have a problem with trying to bring that 'westernized' version back.

This argument about the west and how they change everything is kind of lame, to be honest. I don't think that the overwhelming majority of anime gets treated that way today and if Dragon Ball came out today, neither would it. But I really think that Funimation's hands are tied with Dragon Ball because it has to continuously sleep in the bed that it made when it didn't know its ass from its elbow regarding dubbing. Far too much material and products have come out from that poor attempt at a dub, that those things became the norm. So much so, that Toei is using dubisms in their official English products.

Dragon Ball did in a way come out today, Super came and revived fans as well as new fans into this world, it was Funimation's choice to do what they did, they had a perfect opportunity, but they purposely missed it. And it's clear that it's not so much their hands are tied so to speak, but more so they don't agree with how Dragon Ball should be done over here in the west, numerous quotes from the VA's themselves support this, Dragon Ball has certain things that don't really translate to English, but that's entirely different to what's actually being done here, the things that don't entirely translate won't bastardize the scene if done correctly.

If I'm correct, Toei using dubism's was around the time of either late Buu Kai, or early Dragon Ball Super, in which I have to say that's a result again of Funimation choosing to stick with their dubism's. Other shows from the 2000's seem to be given better treatment nowadays, but for some reason Dragon Ball is still an outlier, and I'd love to hear from a Funimation official why this is, because for all we know, we could all be wrong about why they chose to do the things they did.

I realize that you're upset by it all -- I realize that a lot of people are upset by it. It's not wrong to be. But examples I've seen of Super "going back to Funimation's old ways" is name spellings, which is kind of a joke. "Why Kefla, why not Kafla??" I don't know, but it doesn't change the story.

The naming's aren't as much of a big deal as the actual dialogue and way the characters are presented, that's the stuff that can change things in a surprisingly drastic way. Things like Kefla are just plain wrong, the dub is literally all over the place, if we are going to call Kafla, "Kefla", then it would make sense to call Kakarot, "Kakarotto", and Vegeta, "Bejita". It's either it's done right, or it's done wrong, having a mess of things in between is incredibly confusing to new fans who want to get deeper into Dragon Ball, in which I actually have a friend who gets mixed up because of how things are treated so differently in our West Dragon Ball.

The Super dub also takes liberties with jokes and stuff like that, but aside from a ludicrously stupid moment with Hit none of them are in any significant scenes or detract from the story any bit. Mostly scenes that were already humorous or light to begin with.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just getting a little frustrated because I wrote an entire post explaining everything the best I could, but did you read the main post? It's clear that it's not a "few" jokes that pop up in Super, there are area's where mainly tone and dialogue are changed for no reason. The story at it's core may not be entirely changed, but the main variables surrounding the main plot such as character's personalities and presentations are drastically changed.

More importantly, DBZ is in a much weirder spot than a large majority of other anime because of when it got popular. Not just popular, but like megafucking popular. If Spongebob was #1 in the states kids, Dragon Ball Z was a distant second. So there are plenty of terms that have solidified within pop culture that just isn't going to go away. It's similar how aspects of the American version of Pokemon still exists even today in both the anime/video game. So Funimation often has to split the difference in making a dub that still appeals to the sort of viewer that watched DBZ through toonami, and isn't interested in watching the japanese version. That's the primary audience for an english dub.

It lost a lot of popularity in the years of before and during early Kai, the revival of Dragon Ball only came sometime early last decade.

"Sun" in "Sun Wukong" isn't pronounced like the English word "Sun". It's pronounced with a U-sound, so it sounds like the English word "soon".

Oop, thanks for clearing that up, gonna change that now. With Son Goku, it would be pronounced "So-n", right? Not "Su-n"?

Also with Pokemon, there's the language difference of things that make quite a few name changes necessary. In Japanese the ones that are just English words are punny, but in English, it sounds lame. I'd also say quite a few of those names have become solidified in the way that the Speed Racer movie had those terms and not "Mach a Go Go" names. Or with another example, while I haven't watched the last 3 seasons of Voltron Legendary Defender (and no spoilers please), they used Keith, Lance, Pidge and Hunk, instead of Chief, Moody, Shorty and Hothead. Was anyone expecting them to be used?

I don't know that much about Pokemon, but if we are talking about lame naming senses, Dragon Ball is littered with ones like "Special Beam Cannon", "Destructo Disk", "Spirit Bomb", "Tri-beam", etc.

[jjgp1112]

I mean sorry, but your post was mostly subjective critiques of the wording and delivery. Something being too long/too wordy/too simplified doesn't really equate to inaccurate, and your post devolved from actual inaccuracies to pedantry.

[LoganForkHands73]

A lot of the examples where you claim Schemmel's Goku is acting too cocky and disrespectful have Nozawa act just about as much, just with a slyer tone of voice. If anything, Nozawa's hick dialect for Goku, which is another thing that would be difficult to translate into English without it sounding silly to us, often makes the character sound even more disrespectful compared Schemmel's generic middle American accent. Goku in Super is a bit of a cocky asshole no matter the dub or translation.

[Aim]

I mean sorry, but your post was mostly subjective critiques of the wording and delivery. Something being too long/too wordy/too simplified doesn't really equate to inaccurate, and your post devolved from actual inaccuracies to pedantry.

There was nothing subjective about it, if you can’t tell the differences by listening to those clips, you most likely struggle with picking up vocal cues and tone.

A lot of the examples where you claim Schemmel's Goku is acting too cocky and disrespectful have Nozawa act just about as much, just with a slyer tone of voice. If anything, Nozawa's hick dialect for Goku, which is another thing that would be difficult to translate into English without it sounding silly to us, often makes the character sound even more disrespectful compared Schemmel's generic middle American accent. Goku in Super is a bit of a cocky asshole no matter the dub or translation.

Goku’s arrogance is incredibly noticeable in the English dub, and is there even when it shouldn’t be there. This whole “Goku is cocky anyway” thing people come up with isn’t even correct, Goku rarely displays the amount of arrogance that is portrayed in the English.

As for Nozawa’s hick, it’s totally possible, give me examples of how Goku’s hick or slang dialogue can’t be translated. At this point, you may as well change anything about Dragon Ball with the idea “it doesn’t translate well”.

[LoganForkHands73]

I mean sorry, but your post was mostly subjective critiques of the wording and delivery. Something being too long/too wordy/too simplified doesn't really equate to inaccurate, and your post devolved from actual inaccuracies to pedantry.

There was nothing subjective about it, if you can’t tell the differences by listening to those clips, you most likely struggle with picking up vocal cues and tone.

A lot of the examples where you claim Schemmel's Goku is acting too cocky and disrespectful have Nozawa act just about as much, just with a slyer tone of voice. If anything, Nozawa's hick dialect for Goku, which is another thing that would be difficult to translate into English without it sounding silly to us, often makes the character sound even more disrespectful compared Schemmel's generic middle American accent. Goku in Super is a bit of a cocky asshole no matter the dub or translation.

Goku’s arrogance is incredibly noticeable in the English dub, and is there even when it shouldn’t be there. This whole “Goku is cocky anyway” thing people come up with isn’t even correct, Goku rarely displays the amount of arrogance that is portrayed in the English.

As for Nozawa’s hick, it’s totally possible, give me examples of how Goku’s hick or slang dialogue can’t be translated. At this point, you may as well change anything about Dragon Ball with the idea “it doesn’t translate well”.

Honestly I would really like to see a fully hick Deep South Goku (or whichever stereotypical region you'd prefer) but I don't think that would go down too well with folk.

[jjgp1112]

I mean sorry, but your post was mostly subjective critiques of the wording and delivery. Something being too long/too wordy/too simplified doesn't really equate to inaccurate, and your post devolved from actual inaccuracies to pedantry.

There was nothing subjective about it, if you can’t tell the differences by listening to those clips, you most likely struggle with picking up vocal cues and tone.

Oh, jeez. I guess I just imagined myself being a professional writer and everything.

Well, if you think your own personal interpretation of the scenes and Goku's character is the end-all, be-all, then have at it, partner.

[Super Sonic]

So do folks want Goku to be like this girl, or have the cast embrace their Texasness? While Boomhauer Goku would be funny, many of us wouldn't understand him.

[Robo4900]

So do folks want Goku to be like this girl, or have the cast embrace their Texasness? While Boomhauer Goku would be funny, many of us wouldn't understand him.

Goku being given a southern drawl to adapt the original dialect doesn't mean "Let's make him have an awful, incomprehensible speaking mannerism!", and any suggestion that that is what it means is a strawman.

... Though I don't see what's so impossible to understand about that clip... The accent is thick, but perfectly understandable.

[Super Sonic]

So do folks want Goku to be like this girl, or have the cast embrace their Texasness? While Boomhauer Goku would be funny, many of us wouldn't understand him.

Goku being given a southern drawl to adapt the original dialect doesn't mean "Let's make him have an awful, incomprehensible speaking mannerism!", and any suggestion that that is what it means is a strawman.

... Though I don't see what's so impossible to understand about that clip... The accent is thick, but perfectly understandable.

If you're talking about the clip I posted, I did understand her. I was talking about two different people.