"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue May 26, 2020 5:19 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:58 am
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:41 am
Shin aware this is happening? I doubt he's stupid enough to not notice Moro's rampage.
You're giving him way too much credit. You can't google the word stupid without running into Shin articles. :lol:
I at the very least expected for a single panel where he reacted to Daikaioshin's Ki. He was still Buu, but I doubt that Supreme Kais cannot sense one another. His master, who sacrificed himself to save Shin as the last Supreme Kai...

That was a big miss for me. As I said, a single panel could have delivered a lot of emotion.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Tue May 26, 2020 11:24 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:19 am
Matches Malone wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:58 am
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:41 am
Shin aware this is happening? I doubt he's stupid enough to not notice Moro's rampage.
You're giving him way too much credit. You can't google the word stupid without running into Shin articles. :lol:
I at the very least expected for a single panel where he reacted to Daikaioshin's Ki. He was still Buu, but I doubt that Supreme Kais cannot sense one another. His master, who sacrificed himself to save Shin as the last Supreme Kai...

That was a big miss for me. As I said, a single panel could have delivered a lot of emotion.
Or a panel showing how shocked he is about Moro's rampage after he and his prisoner army have been looting civilisations, killing populations and such. Shin has got to notice that, even though he can't do anything due to being Beerus's achilles heel and would get killed rather quickly if he tried to help.

Honestly, the only thing Shin could do at this point is teleport them off the planet in case things go haywire. Even if Shin got stronger, he's up against literal god-tier characters, there is no way he could reasonably catch up without some nonsense getting involved. If the Daikaio appears, maybe Shin could comment on that.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Tue May 26, 2020 2:59 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:41 am
Honestly, can the damage Moros' done to U7 even be reversed? Like, with the normal dragon balls, I'm kinda doubting they can revive the countless of planets Moro's consumed. Moro's killed trillions of people and made their energy a part of him. I'm sure that Earth will be fine. Or at least intact by the end of the Arc.

But what about the rest of U7?

Moro has had his army of prisoners running around across the galaxy, looting treasure and raiding planet's populations while eating their energy. The quality of life has no doubt been at an all time low, might even be worse than U9 given Moro's little ventures.

I don't even understand Whis when he said that destruction is natural, as if Moro and his army rampaging across the universe and genociding entire populations should be classified as 'natural'. There is nothing natural about this.

Also, Shin aware this is happening? I know he can't do anything as he's too weak and would just get himself killed, but I doubt he's stupid enough to not notice Moro's rampage. I'm sure he simply doesn't want to kill himself, as Moro is out of his league and he's basically Beerus's weak point that talks and walks. I hope he shows up for a panel to admit something like "Damn it. Moro's been eating the remaining planets in our Universe....Only a handful left with decent life on them."
I mean, Super Dragon Balls can undo entire universal erasure. Maybe they'll be needed to undo Moro's damage.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue May 26, 2020 3:41 pm

The arc has been going on for way too long, so I can't remember, but Shin appeared zero times in this arc, am I correct? maybe in some panel he showed his face, but he didn't take part in anything IIRC.
It is kinda weird they never tried to reach out to him, considering they are facing a former enemy of the kaioshin, he might have some info to share, we've had so many characters and planets involved and engulfed that is odd that he wasn't involved, even as a peanut gallery member.

Also, wondering something, if Shin were to ask Beerus to step in(now or whenever), would Beerus do so? as in responding to the request of a "colleague"? or would Shin, need to get himself in real danger for Beerus to move his ass?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Tue May 26, 2020 3:48 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 3:41 pm
The arc has been going on for way too long, so I can't remember, but Shin appeared zero times in this arc, am I correct? maybe in some panel he showed his face, but he didn't take part in anything IIRC.
It is kinda weird they never tried to reach out to him, considering they are facing a former enemy of the kaioshin, he might have some info to share, we've had so many characters and planets involved and engulfed that is odd that he wasn't involved, even as a peanut gallery member.

Also, wondering something, if Shin were to ask Beerus to step in(now or whenever), would Beerus do so? as in responding to the request of a "colleague"? or would Shin, need to get himself in real danger for Beerus to move his ass?
He hasn't appeared once in the arc, not even mentioned. I kinda wish Shin was able to fight enemies, or at least be helpful to the cast. I know it'd be near impossible for Shin to be at a strength to make him useful and not dead weight, but it would sure make things easier.

If Shin were to ask, I imagine Beerus would be a bit reluctant, especially if Goku and Vegeta are able to put Moro on the defensive at some point. If Moro continues to be a pain, Shin could easily go "Fine, guess I'll kill myself trying to get involved!" And Beerus would change his tune and do something.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Tue May 26, 2020 4:19 pm

I mean, at least Shin has the excuse he's too damn weak to make a difference, Moro is a god-tier threat and he's not strong enough to do much of anything. Even if he trained, there's no way he's reaching the strength level required to stand against someone like Moro, at least not anytime soon. Shin getting involved physically would make him a target, seeing as Moro could easily kill Shin if he were to try helping the main cast. They'd have to have someone protecting Shin in order to prevent him from dying.

Whis is not allowed to intervene due to the angel code, even though I can tell Whis isn't a fan of Moro himself and would REALLY prefer he wasn't in his damn universe, he's not allowed to fight. Whis has the excuse he'll get himself killed doing anything, and besides, its probably not his first rodeo of 'Evil threat capable of ruining the universe running about and causing destruction' given how old he is. Whis seems like he cares about what's happening, he just doesn't want to risk himself in the process and is hoping that someone can deal with the threat if Beerus chooses not to.

But Beerus is just...not doing anything? Or in the very least, he's being a bit late on the caring part as he's expressing interest in Earth for its food. I know for plot purposes they can't be Beerus be competent, but I do wish there were better reasons for not interfering as it looks stupid when planet eating psychos are running around his army, killing who knows how many people and draining energy.

Hell if Beerus was asleep I could buy it as a reason not to intervene. Or have Beerus be in another Universe. Or have Shin be held hostage in case Beerus tries to stop someone. Anything is better than him just choosing not to do anything.

There have been so many planets that have been fucked by Moro's ventures and so many characters trying to fight against him that its hard to believe Beerus hasn't at least expressed interest in someone like this existing until now.

It takes Whis and Merus legit TALKING LOUDLY ABOUT THE THREAT THAT'S BEEN ON THE LOOSE FOR MONTHS, for him to care a little bit. They need to write better reasons for Beerus not caring about what's happening because it makes him look like an idiot.

And with Buu falling asleep every time he's needed, can they like stop doing that? Its unhelpful when the one time Buu is needed, he's constantly sleeping through fights. They've pulled this card multiple times, its getting annoying how when Buu is needed, whoops! He falls asleep again! Like I swear after this fight, they better not have Buu 'falling' back into sleep again until the next fight.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue May 26, 2020 4:38 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:19 pm
I mean, at least Shin has the excuse he's too damn weak to make a difference, Moro is a god-tier threat and he's not strong enough to do much of anything. Even if he trained, there's no way he's reaching the strength level required to stand against someone like Moro, at least not anytime soon. Shin getting involved physically would make him a target, seeing as Moro could easily kill Shin if he were to try helping the main cast. They'd have to have someone protecting Shin in order to prevent him from dying.

Whis is not allowed to intervene due to the angel code, even though I can tell Whis isn't a fan of Moro himself and would REALLY prefer he wasn't in his damn universe, he's not allowed to fight. Whis has the excuse he'll get himself killed doing anything, and besides, its probably not his first rodeo of 'Evil threat capable of ruining the universe running about and causing destruction' given how old he is. Whis seems like he cares about what's happening, he just doesn't want to risk himself in the process and is hoping that someone can deal with the threat if Beerus chooses not to.

But Beerus is just...not doing anything? Or in the very least, he's being a bit late on the caring part as he's expressing interest in Earth for its food. I know for plot purposes they can't be Beerus be competent, but I do wish there were better reasons for not interfering as it looks stupid when planet eating psychos are running around his army, killing who knows how many people and draining energy.

Hell if Beerus was asleep I could buy it as a reason not to intervene. Or have Beerus be in another Universe. Or have Shin be held hostage in case Beerus tries to stop someone. Anything is better than him just choosing not to do anything.

There have been so many planets that have been fucked by Moro's ventures and so many characters trying to fight against him that its hard to believe Beerus hasn't at least expressed interest in someone like this existing until now.

It takes Whis and Merus legit TALKING LOUDLY ABOUT THE THREAT THAT'S BEEN ON THE LOOSE FOR MONTHS, for him to care a little bit. They need to write better reasons for Beerus not caring about what's happening because it makes him look like an idiot.

And with Buu falling asleep every time he's needed, can they like stop doing that? Its unhelpful when the one time Buu is needed, he's constantly sleeping through fights. They've pulled this card multiple times, its getting annoying how when Buu is needed, whoops! He falls asleep again! Like I swear after this fight, they better not have Buu 'falling' back into sleep again until the next fight.
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In other news, seeing how Zamasu was considered a prodigy fighter amongst the Kaioshin, rivaling SS2 Goku and for some reason SSB despite only becoming immortal in the future time-line, I doubt Shin can be of much relevance.

But, as we said, he still has his role. He is the official Supreme Kai of U7. And I actually question Whis for saying that only the GoD and the Lord of Lords have a say in universal matters, seeing how the Grand Supreme Kai is not a thing. He just appeared once through Buu.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Tue May 26, 2020 4:53 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:38 pm
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:19 pm
I mean, at least Shin has the excuse he's too damn weak to make a difference, Moro is a god-tier threat and he's not strong enough to do much of anything. Even if he trained, there's no way he's reaching the strength level required to stand against someone like Moro, at least not anytime soon. Shin getting involved physically would make him a target, seeing as Moro could easily kill Shin if he were to try helping the main cast. They'd have to have someone protecting Shin in order to prevent him from dying.

Whis is not allowed to intervene due to the angel code, even though I can tell Whis isn't a fan of Moro himself and would REALLY prefer he wasn't in his damn universe, he's not allowed to fight. Whis has the excuse he'll get himself killed doing anything, and besides, its probably not his first rodeo of 'Evil threat capable of ruining the universe running about and causing destruction' given how old he is. Whis seems like he cares about what's happening, he just doesn't want to risk himself in the process and is hoping that someone can deal with the threat if Beerus chooses not to.

But Beerus is just...not doing anything? Or in the very least, he's being a bit late on the caring part as he's expressing interest in Earth for its food. I know for plot purposes they can't be Beerus be competent, but I do wish there were better reasons for not interfering as it looks stupid when planet eating psychos are running around his army, killing who knows how many people and draining energy.

Hell if Beerus was asleep I could buy it as a reason not to intervene. Or have Beerus be in another Universe. Or have Shin be held hostage in case Beerus tries to stop someone. Anything is better than him just choosing not to do anything.

There have been so many planets that have been fucked by Moro's ventures and so many characters trying to fight against him that its hard to believe Beerus hasn't at least expressed interest in someone like this existing until now.

It takes Whis and Merus legit TALKING LOUDLY ABOUT THE THREAT THAT'S BEEN ON THE LOOSE FOR MONTHS, for him to care a little bit. They need to write better reasons for Beerus not caring about what's happening because it makes him look like an idiot.

And with Buu falling asleep every time he's needed, can they like stop doing that? Its unhelpful when the one time Buu is needed, he's constantly sleeping through fights. They've pulled this card multiple times, its getting annoying how when Buu is needed, whoops! He falls asleep again! Like I swear after this fight, they better not have Buu 'falling' back into sleep again until the next fight.
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In other news, seeing how Zamasu was considered a prodigy fighter amongst the Kaioshin, rivaling SS2 Goku and for some reason SSB despite only becoming immortal in the future time-line, I doubt Shin can be of much relevance.

But, as we said, he still has his role. He is the official Supreme Kai of U7. And I actually question Whis for saying that only the GoD and the Lord of Lords have a say in universal matters, seeing how the Grand Supreme Kai is not a thing. He just appeared once through Buu.
Honestly, I'll take anything. Separate him, do something to where his sleeping can at least be tamed, wish it away, anything! Just stop having Buu constantly sleeping when he's needed as its not helping anyone and it makes everyone have to go through hurdles to find other alternatives. There are going to be more God of Destruction tier threats running around after Moro's defeat and if Buu's involved, it'll be inconvenient for EVERYONE if he decided to go 'night night'.

Whis probably is just trying to keep Merus alive, he's saying what he needs to do prevent Merus from trying to inch his way to Earth.

Seriously, at least have Shin do something useful so he's not only known for being Beerus's achilles heel. I wish kais were actually useful in battle to an extent, seeing as Shin's a walking piece of glass in comparison to these god of destruction threats. Or have Shin use his brain and have other ways of being useful so he doesn't look completely useless while Moro's running around.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Tue May 26, 2020 5:44 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:19 pm


But Beerus is just...not doing anything? Or in the very least, he's being a bit late on the caring part as he's expressing interest in Earth for its food. I know for plot purposes they can't be Beerus be competent, but I do wish there were better reasons for not interfering as it looks stupid when planet eating psychos are running around his army, killing who knows how many people and draining energy.



Beerus intervening, is just one of those things that 'could' spice things up a little bit.
It's no vital requirement to make a good ending. Not in the least.
I just want to see a good final part from now on, with unexpected twists and turns.
I have no sacred ending set in stone that's the only right choice.

Beerus is arrogant, but does have a soft spot for some of those people he does not openly care for.
During TOP anime, he was visably shocked when Goku seemed evoporated by the Spirit Bomb.
There was definitely more going on than only the stake of losing the tournament.
They didn't showed his face during that shot when he said 'is that really the end of you?', on purpose.
And yeah, i do think he didn't only spare Goku because of the food on earth to begin with.
He had some form of beginning respect for him.
Another example: when his brother became erased, he kinda had a difficult moment as was shown clearly, but he didn't seem to admit to his emotions.
He should of course have some vital concerns for his own safety, because of Shin potentially being threatened as you have stated, or Moro simply becoming too strong at the end and a concern for his rule within U7.

If he does intervene, i hope they'll write it in such a way, he says it's because of something trivial (such as the food), but you basically can tell something deeper is going on, which he may not openly want to admit. That's Beerus, he won't admit it or shed tears openly for mortals or even his own brother. Nor will he easily admit he feels threatened.
He is an ambiguous character, i hope they'll keep it that way for the time being. But that does mean he should stay uninvolved in battles forever.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Draconic » Wed May 27, 2020 3:17 am

Speaking of Shin, with bringing back Grand Kaioshin for this arc, it would've been a nice moment to explain how Beerus' life is connected to only Shin and explain a bit of history on that, like, was he tied to Grand Kaioshin before he was absorbed by Buu? Does it count that he's technically still alive in there? What about the others?

I mean, with how irrelevant the fact Moro has been an old Kaioshin adversary is, this kind of explanation wouldn't fit anywhere, but Toyotaro usually addresses this type of questions and this was a nice chance.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed May 27, 2020 3:21 am

Beerus not intervening or getting involved is not a big deal because Toyotaro (and Toriyama) are probably gonna set up a plot where Merus escapes to earth to aid Goku & Vegeta while Whis & Beerus follow in pursuit of him before he breaks angel code (Law whatever)

as for Shin (Supreme Kai) he probably knows it's best to stay out of Moro's way because if he dies so will Beerus

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Wed May 27, 2020 1:35 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:21 am
Beerus not intervening or getting involved is not a big deal

At least it's one of those few characters that actually could bid something different than just standing there drooling at the sight of Gokus and Vegetas level, if Moro does not get weakened somehow.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Wed May 27, 2020 3:21 pm

Honestly, I kinda feel Beerus needs to at least have a say about Moro, or at least mention his feelings towards him once the scope of the damage Moro's done is clear. Even if Beerus gave fuck all about Goku and Vegeta, Moro's been running around for a bit too long and could potentially become a problem if not killed.

Seriously, if Moro found out there are other universes, what would stop him from going to the realm of the kais and kill them, and then finding the time rings and using them for his own gain? At that point, it would be Zamasu all over again because no one would be able to stop him. The last thing anyone wants is another 'Zamasu' incident because that was a disaster.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Wed May 27, 2020 3:38 pm

If the angels can't actually manage to convince Beerus to interfer (which we even haven't seen on screen), which basically makes little sense considering Moro could easily kill Shin during his rampage or even kill Beerus directly if he becomes even stronger, they technically speaking should seek aid in other universes, or even alert the Zenos (presumingly they don't like a multiverse killer that is not actually themselves). If Moro has sucked dry U7, who says his thirst will be over? That's the most the angels could technically do without interfering directly, but it's still a lot more compared to what they are doing now.
So i don't feel Merus sacrifice even makes sense right now, because they haven't even tried every other option available.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Wed May 27, 2020 3:47 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:38 pm
If the angels can't actually manage to convince Beerus, which basically makes little sense considering Moro could easily kill Shin during his rampage or even kill Beerus himself if he becomes even stronger, they technically speaking should seek aid in other universes, or even allert the Zenos (presumingly they don't like a multiverse killer that is not actually themselves). If Moro has sucked dry U7, who says his thirst will be over? That's the most the angels could technically do without interfering directly, but it's still a lot more than what they are doing now.
So i don't feel Merus sacrifice even makes sense right now, because they even haven't even tried every other option available.
If Moro could go to other Universes, that would be hell. If Beerus doesn't start giving the slightest damn, Moro could go to other universes and get entire armies worth of psychos on his team from all sorts of backgrounds, ordering them to genocide populations as he sucks entire universes dry after killing the kais, preventing any Gods from stopping him. Its Zamasu except even worse, seeing Moro would have high tier threats working alongside him and since the angels can't do anything, Moro would be free to do as he pleases. Moro's end goal is basically."Until my ideals are realized, not a single planet is to be spared."

Zeno could erase everyone on the spot, its a risky deal. Zeno's too unpredictable and should always be considered a last resort. If Moro gets that far when every universe is lifeless, then erasing everyone would probably be best, but I hope Moro is dealt with before that becomes a problem.

I feel Merus shouldn't be erased, seeing as Whis won't let him and if Moro is truthfully becoming that much of a threat, BEERUS should do something as its legit his damn job. Or in the very least, express interest in Moro.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed May 27, 2020 4:04 pm

I don't blame people for wanting Beerus to get involved. He is a cool character.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Wed May 27, 2020 4:26 pm

Miracles wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 4:04 pm
I don't blame people for wanting Beerus to get involved. He is a cool character.


There are some people that blame Super relies on nostalgia.
Partially Super does rely on nostalgia, true, but they're completey wrong with the statement it only relies on nostalgia.
That doesn't even make sense, apart from the fact they may not like Super from what subjective reason whatsoever.
Whis and Beerus fe are brand new characters from the revival, and they are written quite on point as they are both quite enjoyable and refreshing to be honest with you. And they are considered a major update amongst a big slice of the fandom. Some may not like them or even Super in general. But even if you don't like them, they still don't rely on nostalgia alone. That does not even make the slightest sense from an intellectual point of view. It's completely impossible, because they are (brand) new from 2013 and are not part from the original franchise to begin with.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Wed May 27, 2020 6:29 pm

Miracles wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 4:04 pm
I don't blame people for wanting Beerus to get involved. He is a cool character.
If people want a story to potentially involve their favorite character, that's okay. If people act like the story is "bad'" because their favorite character isn't involved, that's not okay. That latter line of thinking is why so much pandering fanfiction exists.

It's the biggest difference between the manga's Tournament of Power, which largely had a focused, almost constantly progressing plot, and the anime's version, which had dozens of pointless episodes featuring the Pokemon of the week that contributed nothing to the setting or overall narrative.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed May 27, 2020 6:47 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:35 pm
Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:21 am
Beerus not intervening or getting involved is not a big deal

At least it's one of those few characters that actually could bid something different than just standing there drooling at the sight of Gokus and Vegetas level, if Moro does not get weakened somehow.
If Beerus gets involved all the tension that's been trying to built up to now would be destroyed because he can one shot Moro
that's why to me it isn't a big deal if he shows up or not and whis won't get involved unless Beerus does

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Wed May 27, 2020 7:08 pm

It's a shame the locations for the manga have all been so boring and uncreative.

There appeared to be some hope in the way of the Planet Jung but since then it's been Namek again, Beerus' Planet again, a Hyperbolic Time Chamber again, Yardrat again and more open wastelands on Earth again.

Why can't the series ever introduce a new interesting location?

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