How to properly watch GT ?

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:08 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:26 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:35 pm
Yeah let's ignore entire great concept behind this arc like it meant nothing for this ending and how every dragon was somewhat related to wish that gave it life. And no other villain than Omega (except for Frieza) ever felt like it could be final villain of story, especially final villains of Z and DBS (talking about Jiren, not Moro but it doesn't really make a big difference).

And what is "watchable" for you? If something isn't good but is watchable then what?
I've always agreed that the concepts in GT were great, the execution however is the complete opposite.

I said it wasn't always good, but at least watchable. In terms of what's watchable, things that don't put me to sleep half way through or make me drop them altogether.
None of GT ever made me bored except for episode where they fight ParaPara and giant worm, this one was boring, but other series also had those moments like Goku and Vegeta exploring Buu's body in anime. Not counting typical fillers, even though some of them were great like driving licence episode, but DBS fillers like Barry Kahn and Copy Vegeta were very boring to me.
Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:20 pm
Pan hates Giru → Pan loves Giru
Without this the M2 arc is stupid.

Goku and Trunks viewed Pan as a nuisance to the mission at the start, and they would have turned the ship around immediately if she hadn't stolen the key. In this episode, they finally change their minds. At the end Trunks calls Pan 仲間 (comrade) which has the sense of "indispensable ally, of course" in contrast to their relationship previously, which was one of moral obligation to take care of a child.
I'll always keep saying FUNimation did TERRIBLE thing skipping those early episodes. They contain all the needed development for M2 episodes and pretty much entire Pan and Giru relationship later in series. That one desert episode was actually important. And since they actually find a dragon ball there, i wouldn't call it a filler at all. If something, Imecka episodes could've been considered some kind of filler if it wasn't for GT gang meeting Giru there, because this planet had no dragon ball and Ledgic didn't impact story in any way.
Vijay wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:02 am
Can you elaborate on what were things made by Toriyama that were painful to watch? Curious. Dats all. I'm not greatest Toriyama fanboy, but gotta give the man credit where it's due. And I'm not talking abt Super. His works during his prime are obviously watchable

But yeah man. I still remember Yammamuro animated that specific GT episode revealing Shadow Dragons, with KibitoKai & Old Kai explaining to them abt Shadow Dragons. The animation, the plot, the hype was surreal

Sucks the subsequent episodes couldn't keep the momentum going...ofc, dats what happens when instead of fighting REAL, BADASS DRAGONS...GT handed ugly ass green toad, pink duck, fckin mole & weird looking slender monster-of-the-week craps straight outta fckin 60's & 70's TV show
I also meant anime so it might be a bit unfair to blame Toriyama for few of those, since entire section in Buu's body was fine in manga, but for me early Frieza saga was boring until Ginyu Force, except for some Vegeta moments like beating Zarbon. And that includes manga. And even in manga, while not "unwatchable", early Cell saga with #19 and Gero as well as everything related to Cell's second form was boring to me. This saga was at its prime during #17&#18 encounters and first form Cell appearance. Also, everything in Buu saga between Super Buu's birth and Ultimate Gohan arrival was a bit painful imo, even though it's still my favourite arc of Z.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:15 am

Having one plot element doesn't preclude the episode from being filler. The Ginyu Force could be considered filler. Without the GT desert episode they're all still friends. They've been together for months. That familiarity alone is enough for her to feel betrayed. Besides, what does that feeling really lead to? Pan learns nothing coming out of this and she continues to serve the same function in the narrative - a damsel. And the M2 arc isn't predicated on Giru and Pan's relationship. Trunks is still friends with Giru and so is Goku.

And it is a huge exaggeration to say before the episode she hated Giru and afterwards she loved him. How does she demonstrate that?

Controversial opinion: I enjoyed the Parapara brothers and dislike the driving episode. The latter wasn't funny or clever.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:49 am

ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:15 am
Having one plot element doesn't preclude the episode from being filler. The Ginyu Force could be considered filler. Without the GT desert episode they're all still friends. They've been together for months. That familiarity alone is enough for her to feel betrayed. Besides, what does that feeling really lead to? Pan learns nothing coming out of this and she continues to serve the same function in the narrative - a damsel. And the M2 arc isn't predicated on Giru and Pan's relationship. Trunks is still friends with Giru and so is Goku.

And it is a huge exaggeration to say before the episode she hated Giru and afterwards she loved him. How does she demonstrate that?

Controversial opinion: I enjoyed the Parapara brothers and dislike the driving episode. The latter wasn't funny or clever.
I enjoyed Parapara bros themselves but not that one episode. I just checked it, they dance for total of 6 minutes of episode which is like 1/3 of it. It's way too long. And enitre fight against worms before that wasn't much interesting either. If i were to pick worst GT episode, i wouldn't think twice before chosing this one.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:46 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:49 am
ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:15 am
Having one plot element doesn't preclude the episode from being filler. The Ginyu Force could be considered filler. Without the GT desert episode they're all still friends. They've been together for months. That familiarity alone is enough for her to feel betrayed. Besides, what does that feeling really lead to? Pan learns nothing coming out of this and she continues to serve the same function in the narrative - a damsel. And the M2 arc isn't predicated on Giru and Pan's relationship. Trunks is still friends with Giru and so is Goku.

And it is a huge exaggeration to say before the episode she hated Giru and afterwards she loved him. How does she demonstrate that?

Controversial opinion: I enjoyed the Parapara brothers and dislike the driving episode. The latter wasn't funny or clever.
I enjoyed Parapara bros themselves but not that one episode. I just checked it, they dance for total of 6 minutes of episode which is like 1/3 of it. It's way too long. And enitre fight against worms before that wasn't much interesting either. If i were to pick worst GT episode, i wouldn't think twice before chosing this one.
To each their own.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:21 am

ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:46 am
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:49 am
ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:15 am
Having one plot element doesn't preclude the episode from being filler. The Ginyu Force could be considered filler. Without the GT desert episode they're all still friends. They've been together for months. That familiarity alone is enough for her to feel betrayed. Besides, what does that feeling really lead to? Pan learns nothing coming out of this and she continues to serve the same function in the narrative - a damsel. And the M2 arc isn't predicated on Giru and Pan's relationship. Trunks is still friends with Giru and so is Goku.

And it is a huge exaggeration to say before the episode she hated Giru and afterwards she loved him. How does she demonstrate that?

Controversial opinion: I enjoyed the Parapara brothers and dislike the driving episode. The latter wasn't funny or clever.
I enjoyed Parapara bros themselves but not that one episode. I just checked it, they dance for total of 6 minutes of episode which is like 1/3 of it. It's way too long. And enitre fight against worms before that wasn't much interesting either. If i were to pick worst GT episode, i wouldn't think twice before chosing this one.
To each their own.
Yeah. What would be your least favourite episode of GT then? And why?
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:01 am

I don't really know. It's been years since I last watched it and DB is very serialized so it's hard to remember by individual episode, but it's probably one where the fight dragged out.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:46 am

ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:07 am
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:43 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:53 pm
But how were their interactions any different from before and after?

Honestly, I think the proximity to the episode is why it feels like it's impactful. It's fresh in the mind of the audience - an episode centered around Giru and Pan, but like I said, after their initial interactions on Imegga, their relationship is more or less unchanged for the remainder of the series.
Wasn’t episode 15 the first real example of the two of them actually bonding? Before that, Pan seemed to more or less just view him as an annoying robot who they were forced to bring along, at least as far as I remember.
She still finds hi annoying but as I recall she stopped thinking he was forced to be brought along before this episode. This is not some watershed episode where the very nature of their relationship changes. She treats everyone the same from the beginning to the end. She's unfortunately a very flat character.
Sure, she still messes with him after that, but I think the idea is supposed to be that her attitude towards him after that point is more along the lines of playful teasing.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:21 pm

You have already gone through the worst, so it can only go up from there. Although it will start to sink in the Super 17 arc, not to the Bonpara levels, so I'd say you'll start enjoying it now.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by GoodboiRaditz » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:24 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:21 pm
You have already gone through the worst, so it can only go up from there. Although it will start to sink in the Super 17 arc, not to the Bonpara levels, so I'd say you'll start enjoying it now.
You're right , the baby arc is good , it could've been better but it is way better than the space travelling saga.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by GoodboiRaditz » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:34 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 pm
The only proper way to watch any anime is to start at episode 1 and watch until last episode, unless there are some completely filler episodes which GT lacks due to its nature, as it has no manga and is completely seperate product. For GT you also have a great TV special episode, with some people saying it's better than most of show episodes, but TV specials in DB were always great (i mean Bardock and Trunks). You should watch this episode either after last episode or at any point after Baby saga (which is when it aired in Japan, after episode 40).

But if you're going to force yourself to watch something and keep skipping episodes, then don't watch it. Simple as that. Digimon Tamers is considered the best series by most of community and i stopped watching it after like 8 episodes because it was awful and painful to watch for me, while Digimon Frontier is very often considered the worst and i think it was pretty good. If you want more Z-like episodes, then you have to keep watching until episode 16 and it goes almost completely Z-like after Baby's reveal, around episodes 22/23. But either watch all episodes or do not watch it at all. Watching only certain parts of story is pointless.

I still recommend you to keep watching it since Baby saga has one of the best villains in franchise and Shadow Dragons arc is the perfect ending for franchise that Toriyama will never give to you. And of course SSJ4.
I am enjoying the baby saga , he's a very good villain way better than the black star dragonballs arc , i am currently in episode 30 , my only complain is that they could've made good episodes out of Goku and Pan before they found out that their family is controlled by Baby , it would've been more dramatic when they finally show their true colors .

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:34 am

GoodboiRaditz wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:34 am
I am enjoying the baby saga , he's a very good villain way better than the black star dragonballs arc , i am currently in episode 30 , my only complain is that they could've made good episodes out of Goku and Pan before they found out that their family is controlled by Baby , it would've been more dramatic when they finally show their true colors .
Good to know you started to enjoy this series.

I personally think it would be interesting if we didn't see Baby's arrival on Earth at all since it would be more shocking if we had no idea that everyone is controlled. They could perhaps show everything Baby did on Earth as flashbacks later. But what i loved about those episodes was how Goten got his own fight against main villain and he did pretty well. Sadly this might be the only time we will ever see Goten fighting on his own as even in Super he still exists only to fuse with Trunks and vice versa.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am

There's value in surprise, but there's also value in suspense.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:10 am

ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am
There's value in surprise, but there's also value in suspense.
True. Basically what's my opinion on recent anime vs manga Krillins' death in Piccolo Daimao saga topic. Both work great in their own ways.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by TheBigBoy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:56 am

DBGT is on Hulu again and I just finished DB so I thought I'd give it a shot. Never seen any of it.

This show is dreadful.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:20 am

GoodboiRaditz wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:34 am
My only complain is that they could've made good episodes out of Goku and Pan before they found out that their family is controlled by Baby , it would've been more dramatic when they finally show their true colors .
I think the biggest missed opportunity is taking Vegeta completely out of the picture, despite the arc centering around the Saiyans' past.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:18 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:20 am
GoodboiRaditz wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:34 am
My only complain is that they could've made good episodes out of Goku and Pan before they found out that their family is controlled by Baby , it would've been more dramatic when they finally show their true colors .
I think the biggest missed opportunity is taking Vegeta completely out of the picture, despite the arc centering around the Saiyans' past.
How else you'd have Baby Vegeta then? Baby alone was great, but without taking Vegeta's body it wouldn't feel the same for me. It's basically how people see Goku Black better than Zamasu, even though i'm in minority since i think Zamasu arc would've been actually much better without Goku Black because his existence served no purpose other than fanservice and had nothing to do with actual goals of Zamasu. But it's opposite for Baby arc even though from plot alone Baby could serve as a villain without taking his body because it would still be about Saiyans vs Tuffles war, but taking over bodies and planning to turn them into "Tuffles" added more impact to his actions.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:36 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:18 am
How else you'd have Baby Vegeta then ?
Keep Baby in his original body. What does him taking over Vegeta or anyone else's body add or take away from his personality or motives ? It was already established that vegeta's pride is too much for him to be controlled, so if anything it just contradicts the previous arc.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by GoodboiRaditz » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:16 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:20 am
GoodboiRaditz wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:34 am
My only complain is that they could've made good episodes out of Goku and Pan before they found out that their family is controlled by Baby , it would've been more dramatic when they finally show their true colors .
I think the biggest missed opportunity is taking Vegeta completely out of the picture, despite the arc centering around the Saiyans' past.
I think Baby taking Vegeta's body was the definition of irony , since in Baby's perspective he was going to bring back his dead race and world and killing all the last saiyans while using the body of one , it's similar to what Zamasu did when he merged with Black and stated that he did on purpose .

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:18 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:36 am
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:18 am
How else you'd have Baby Vegeta then ?
Keep Baby in his original body. What does him taking over Vegeta or anyone else's body add or take away from his personality or motives ? It was already established that vegeta's pride is too much for him to be controlled, so if anything it just contradicts the previous arc.
Mind control is different than a parasite physically possessing him though.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:40 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:36 am
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:18 am
How else you'd have Baby Vegeta then ?
Keep Baby in his original body. What does him taking over Vegeta or anyone else's body add or take away from his personality or motives ? It was already established that vegeta's pride is too much for him to be controlled, so if anything it just contradicts the previous arc.
Vegeta's pride didn't have much to do here. Baby was controlling his body from inside, it weren't some mind tricks like Babidi did. Anyway, yeah it wouldn't take anything from his personality, but it would take something from his motives, at least the ones focused on taking revenge on saiyans. I mean would killing Vegeta be more satisfying revenge on his father than taking his son's body and turning him into "Tuffle" to rule over other people including saiyans? Living under someone's absolute control is more cruel than death, especially in DB where dragon balls can just fix anything. Also there's a pretty cool irony here other than using saiyan body despite seeing them as savages (like what Zamasu did with mortals). Baby had genes of king of tuffles, while Vegeta was prince, technically even a king, of saiyans, so Baby Vegeta kinda was both king of tuffles and saiyans. It's pretty cool idea.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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