"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Omgzord]

Shouldn't Vegeta still be able to punch the energy out of him in a theory? The only problem is that Vegeta is much weaker than him and Moro will be wary of him this time. This will likely end in a team effort.

Goku, #17, #18 will likely lay down the path for Vegeta to defuse Moro from 7-3.

[Grand Marshal 1]

They need to do something about Buu sleeping, its getting annoying as hell when the ONE time we need him, he decides to go NIGHT NIGHT right afterwards. He's too damn unreliable, even Gotenks is more reliable Buu, at least you don't have to worry about Gotenks falling asleep at the last possible second. The most you have to worry about is how childish he is, and his time limit.

Either have him not require the need to sleep, can't they wish for that? I mean, the dragon can wish back people but he can't wish away sleep? That would be dumb as hell.

You see Shenron is better for mass revival wishes and daily stuff, rather than a wish that will effectively prompt for a strong fighter to protect the universe (possibly avoiding all the resurrection wishes due to that).

Buu has been disregarded, but he can easily become then 3rd biggest player, or at least comparable to Gohan. Broly doesn't count btw.

Well, speaking of, Gohan is pretty much a lost cause now. He's lumped in with every Z-Fighter that isn't Goku or Vegeta. He has tons of potential as a Saiyan/Human hybrid, but that's all pretty much gone now. In every future situation, you will be counting on Goku or Vegeta to get you out of it. For now, though, it'll be either Buu or Beerus that does it, due to everyone being exhausted.

I'm not sure if it was said in the Manga, but remember that Gohan still strives for an 'Ultimate form'. Even if its not in the Manga and it's only in the anime, him defeating Kefla was probs fanservice. Unjustified? Maybe. His only feat? Yes.

[Kagari]

They need to do something about Buu sleeping, its getting annoying as hell when the ONE time we need him, he decides to go NIGHT NIGHT right afterwards. He's too damn unreliable, even Gotenks is more reliable Buu, at least you don't have to worry about Gotenks falling asleep at the last possible second. The most you have to worry about is how childish he is, and his time limit.

Either have him not require the need to sleep, can't they wish for that? I mean, the dragon can wish back people but he can't wish away sleep? That would be dumb as hell.

You see Shenron is better for mass revival wishes and daily stuff, rather than a wish that will effectively prompt for a strong fighter to protect the universe (possibly avoiding all the resurrection wishes due to that).

Buu has been disregarded, but he can easily become then 3rd biggest player, or at least comparable to Gohan. Broly doesn't count btw.

Well, speaking of, Gohan is pretty much a lost cause now. He's lumped in with every Z-Fighter that isn't Goku or Vegeta. He has tons of potential as a Saiyan/Human hybrid, but that's all pretty much gone now. In every future situation, you will be counting on Goku or Vegeta to get you out of it. For now, though, it'll be either Buu or Beerus that does it, due to everyone being exhausted.

People said this during the Trunks arc and they were wrong. Gohan has been treated well since the US arc and even had one of the better showings with regards to the actual fighting during the Moro story. The chapter ends with him standing next to Goku in a defensive pose, so he's obviously not a "lost cause".

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

They need to do something about Buu sleeping, its getting annoying as hell when the ONE time we need him, he decides to go NIGHT NIGHT right afterwards. He's too damn unreliable, even Gotenks is more reliable Buu, at least you don't have to worry about Gotenks falling asleep at the last possible second. The most you have to worry about is how childish he is, and his time limit.

Either have him not require the need to sleep, can't they wish for that? I mean, the dragon can wish back people but he can't wish away sleep? That would be dumb as hell.

You see Shenron is better for mass revival wishes and daily stuff, rather than a wish that will effectively prompt for a strong fighter to protect the universe (possibly avoiding all the resurrection wishes due to that).

Buu has been disregarded, but he can easily become then 3rd biggest player, or at least comparable to Gohan. Broly doesn't count btw.

Well, speaking of, Gohan is pretty much a lost cause now. He's lumped in with every Z-Fighter that isn't Goku or Vegeta. He has tons of potential as a Saiyan/Human hybrid, but that's all pretty much gone now. In every future situation, you will be counting on Goku or Vegeta to get you out of it. For now, though, it'll be either Buu or Beerus that does it, due to everyone being exhausted.

I wouldn't say Gohan's a lost cause, but they definitely need to give the B rank fighters a boost. They are going to be more God of Destruction tier fighters showing up after Moro's defeated and given Empowered Saganbo was wrecking the collective effort of the androids and Gohan and Piccolo, alongside poor Jaco who was trying to fight a guy whose above his caliber by leagues, they won't last long against people like that.

I understand Gohan not wanting to stay away from his family, but when super powered plant wreckers set their eyes on Earth, he's legit the strongest person there with the exception of Goku and Vegeta. He's going to be forced into the front lines regardless of if he wants to. If he doesn't want to get wrecked anymore, he's going to need another type of training partner that can get him up to speed.

Gohan is good strength wise, its just that when you have the walking powerhouses like Goku and Vegeta, he looks a bit....less in comparison.

[FiReFTW]

DB at the end of the day is about fighting, and the second strongest character not fighting or winning doesn't make sense. Would it have killed them to have Ssj4 Vegeta take down ice shenron ?

LOL completely agree, who cares if Goku is the main protagonist, there are tons of animes or other cartoon shows where the main protagonist doesn't always win or is always the best, yes he gets some crucial wins and growth and all, but its not "his" show and him winning against everyone, in many anime series the protagonist also has his fair share of losses and also some people at certain times are better or stronger than them.

That makes the series much more interesting than simply having the main guy be the best and beat everyone and win always.

[Grand Marshal 1]

You see Shenron is better for mass revival wishes and daily stuff, rather than a wish that will effectively prompt for a strong fighter to protect the universe (possibly avoiding all the resurrection wishes due to that).

Buu has been disregarded, but he can easily become then 3rd biggest player, or at least comparable to Gohan. Broly doesn't count btw.

Well, speaking of, Gohan is pretty much a lost cause now. He's lumped in with every Z-Fighter that isn't Goku or Vegeta. He has tons of potential as a Saiyan/Human hybrid, but that's all pretty much gone now. In every future situation, you will be counting on Goku or Vegeta to get you out of it. For now, though, it'll be either Buu or Beerus that does it, due to everyone being exhausted.

I wouldn't say Gohan's a lost cause, but they definitely need to give the B rank fighters a boost. They are going to be more God of Destruction tier fighters showing up after Moro's defeated and given Empowered Saganbo was wrecking the collective effort of the androids and Gohan and Piccolo, alongside poor Jaco who was trying to fight a guy whose above his caliber by leagues, they won't last long against people like that.

I understand Gohan not wanting to stay away from his family, but when super powered plant wreckers set their eyes on Earth, he's legit the strongest person there with the exception of Goku and Vegeta. He's going to be forced into the front lines regardless of if he wants to. If he doesn't want to get wrecked anymore, he's going to need another type of training partner that can get him up to speed.

Gohan is good strength wise, its just that when you have the walking powerhouses like Goku and Vegeta, he looks a bit....less in comparison.

Despite all this progress he still feels comparable to Piccolo. Like he is in some ind of loop. No matter how strong he gets, Piccolo is always next to him, albeit with no reasoning tbh.

[Omgzord]

Where do we go from here though? Moro is stronger than ever.

Fusion? MUI? Broly? Beerus? Team effort?

[Kagari]

Well, speaking of, Gohan is pretty much a lost cause now. He's lumped in with every Z-Fighter that isn't Goku or Vegeta. He has tons of potential as a Saiyan/Human hybrid, but that's all pretty much gone now. In every future situation, you will be counting on Goku or Vegeta to get you out of it. For now, though, it'll be either Buu or Beerus that does it, due to everyone being exhausted.

I wouldn't say Gohan's a lost cause, but they definitely need to give the B rank fighters a boost. They are going to be more God of Destruction tier fighters showing up after Moro's defeated and given Empowered Saganbo was wrecking the collective effort of the androids and Gohan and Piccolo, alongside poor Jaco who was trying to fight a guy whose above his caliber by leagues, they won't last long against people like that.

I understand Gohan not wanting to stay away from his family, but when super powered plant wreckers set their eyes on Earth, he's legit the strongest person there with the exception of Goku and Vegeta. He's going to be forced into the front lines regardless of if he wants to. If he doesn't want to get wrecked anymore, he's going to need another type of training partner that can get him up to speed.

Gohan is good strength wise, its just that when you have the walking powerhouses like Goku and Vegeta, he looks a bit....less in comparison.

Despite all this progress he still feels comparable to Piccolo. Like he is in some ind of loop. No matter how strong he gets, Piccolo is always next to him, albeit with no reasoning tbh.

Piccolo couldn't have touched Kafla and couldn't touch 73 after he'd taken Piccolo's abilities. Piccolo being next to Gohan doesn't really matter that much since Gohan is typically the one pulling the heavy weight. Piccolo even praises him for being reliable, etc.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Well, speaking of, Gohan is pretty much a lost cause now. He's lumped in with every Z-Fighter that isn't Goku or Vegeta. He has tons of potential as a Saiyan/Human hybrid, but that's all pretty much gone now. In every future situation, you will be counting on Goku or Vegeta to get you out of it. For now, though, it'll be either Buu or Beerus that does it, due to everyone being exhausted.

I wouldn't say Gohan's a lost cause, but they definitely need to give the B rank fighters a boost. They are going to be more God of Destruction tier fighters showing up after Moro's defeated and given Empowered Saganbo was wrecking the collective effort of the androids and Gohan and Piccolo, alongside poor Jaco who was trying to fight a guy whose above his caliber by leagues, they won't last long against people like that.

I understand Gohan not wanting to stay away from his family, but when super powered plant wreckers set their eyes on Earth, he's legit the strongest person there with the exception of Goku and Vegeta. He's going to be forced into the front lines regardless of if he wants to. If he doesn't want to get wrecked anymore, he's going to need another type of training partner that can get him up to speed.

Gohan is good strength wise, its just that when you have the walking powerhouses like Goku and Vegeta, he looks a bit....less in comparison.

Despite all this progress he still feels comparable to Piccolo. Like he is in some ind of loop. No matter how strong he gets, Piccolo is always next to him, albeit with no reasoning tbh.

I agree, its ridiculous that Gohan, who is blue tier is still walking with Piccolo shortly behind him.He's stronger than him and yet it doesn't feel like its utilized enough. I get for 7-3, strength didn't matter when it stole your abilities, but it feels like Gohan is just keeps standing by him like they're equals in power. Which they're not.

[Kagari]

I wouldn't say Gohan's a lost cause, but they definitely need to give the B rank fighters a boost. They are going to be more God of Destruction tier fighters showing up after Moro's defeated and given Empowered Saganbo was wrecking the collective effort of the androids and Gohan and Piccolo, alongside poor Jaco who was trying to fight a guy whose above his caliber by leagues, they won't last long against people like that.

I understand Gohan not wanting to stay away from his family, but when super powered plant wreckers set their eyes on Earth, he's legit the strongest person there with the exception of Goku and Vegeta. He's going to be forced into the front lines regardless of if he wants to. If he doesn't want to get wrecked anymore, he's going to need another type of training partner that can get him up to speed.

Gohan is good strength wise, its just that when you have the walking powerhouses like Goku and Vegeta, he looks a bit....less in comparison.

Despite all this progress he still feels comparable to Piccolo. Like he is in some ind of loop. No matter how strong he gets, Piccolo is always next to him, albeit with no reasoning tbh.

I agree, its ridiculous that Gohan, who is blue tier is still walking with Piccolo shortly behind him.He's stronger than him and yet it doesn't feel like its utilized enough. I get for 7-3, strength didn't matter when it stole your abilities, but it feels like Gohan is just keeps standing by him like they're equals in power. Which they're not.

You're reading into it too much. They're master and student. They both absolutely recognize Gohan's strength.

[DiscountDabi]

I hate that people Immediately gave up on Vegeta this chapter.

Its the same as Super Perfect Cell and Gohan. Imagine that happened today. People would be like “Gohan lost this is so stupid”

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I'm guessing Vegeta won't be able to separate Moro and 7-3 since 7-3 has no spirit.

[Brettjr25]

The panel where Piccolo states Vegeta has never been one to misread an opponent's strength...What is Piccolo talking about?

...that's what Vegeta's done exclusively to anyone who isn't Beerus throughout the entire series. It's almost his most defining trait.

Not true, Piccolo is actually right. It's why Vegeta is always afraid. He never misreads his opponents strength but underestimates their ability to grow. Unless a person has an ability to bring about hidden power Vegeta doesnt misread their strenght.

He looked down on Goku and beat Goku. He looked down on Zarbon and beat Zarbon until Zarbon transformed. He was terrified of the Ginyu force and was beat by them. He was terrified of Freeza and was beat by him. He looked down on Cell and beat him but let him transform. Etc Etc.

He goes as far as to ask Piccolo if he wants him to split Kami and Nail from him, so he'll definitely separate Moro and 7-3. The question is, how will he get close enough to do it ?

That's what Vegeta says but can he really separate Kami from him? Kami and Piccolo were originally one so it isn't really fusion.

[Lionel]

So many of my personal impressions for this chapter have already been expressed by other users. My late two pennies' worth aligns with others. It was a great chapter with a welcome array of original choreographic poses and manoeuvres from the Saiyan prince. It's interesting to see how this new ability carries a slew of possible application -- an all around good chapter with respect to the fighting and its originality. I do wish more could be afforded to Moro in terms of his magical abilities as he basically admitted here that he's been relying on brunt force throughout the battle.

The underside of this chapter for me rests in the feckless kowtowing to Vegeta's characterisation by others. It's been insistently pointed out that Vegeta's combat record has always been rife with miscalculating the strength and abilities of his opponent since Zarbon or even Goku -- his unwillingness to look beyond what his pride will accept has served as an Achilles' Heel for Vegeta for decades. In addition to that aspect of the pedestal perching, there's the comment about him being more talented than Goku. My mind keeps straying back to the era of Vegeta's life when he served as Freeza's begrudging attack dog -- remaining comparatively static in his growth as a fighter and having Cui nip at his own heels as an apparent long time rival despite his knack for riding on Freeza's coattails rather than plunging into the heat of battle like the aforementioned prince.

I didn't care for Vegeta's quip to Piccolo neither. As if the fan favourite Namekian of the group needed to be defanged and his own pride dragged through the mud even more. What happened to the Piccolo who fiercely competed to gain an edge on the Saiyans? I miss scenes like the one from the Mecha Freeza arc where Piccolo showed no hesitation in standing his ground against Vegeta. How would Kami would be ripped apart from Piccolo in the first place? They were originally one being. Kami was merely the result of all negative emotions and energy accumulated through exposure to humanity's debasement being partitioned into a separate manifestation. Nail is understandable, but Kami?

I enjoyed the existential conversation between Vegeta and Moro about the final resting place for their souls. I'm just a bit miffed by some of the posturing that went on in conjunction. How does anyone fight you Saiyans when they can't so much as use the time-space distorted alternate dimension that's been available since the Cell arc? You yourself cling to your own genetics and the countless number of transformations it seems to produce as though it were an indispensable crutch. How does anyone match that when the others can't even be bothered to train properly anymore? Sorry, I know the critique was levelled at Moro but that touched a nerve with me, the reader.

This chapter's ending had a bizarre turn but keeping to the traditional route of the villain being a powerhouse seems to be the plan for Toyotaro. I would have honestly preferred Moro to return back to his roots as a magician with arcane powers compensating for his inadequate power.

[Matches Malone]

I hate that people Immediately gave up on Vegeta this chapter.

Its the same as Super Perfect Cell and Gohan. Imagine that happened today. People would be like “Gohan lost this is so stupid”

Exactly, it's clear Vegeta's going to kill Moro to make up for his sins, it's just a matter of separating him and 7-3 now.

I'm guessing Vegeta won't be able to separate Moro and 7-3 since 7-3 has no spirit.

The idea of separating 2 beings wouldn't have been brought up if it wasn't going to play a role in the story.

Where do we go from here though? Moro is stronger than ever. Fusion? MUI? Broly? Beerus? Team effort?

Team effort, Goku and friends hold off Moro while Vegeta tries to somehow separate him and 7-3. Once that's done, Vegeta kills Moro while Goku takes care of 7-3.

[Alruneia]

Where do we go from here though? Moro is stronger than ever.

Fusion? MUI? Broly? Beerus? Team effort?

- Surely Goku's going to tap into UI. It'd be weird if he only used UI Sign a little bit and never went into UI.
- Beerus, Whis and Merus are on their way. That's going to be relevant in some way, be it through Beerus or through Merus.
- Vegeta's technique opens some new doors. I'm sure we'll see theories relating to it soon enough.
- It's going to be some form of team win, I'm sure. As much fun as it'd be to see Vegeta be the main victor, I can't say it'd be surprising if Moro is defeated by something that can't be credited to just one person. For example, UI Goku could have to keep 73-Moro occupied by battling him while Vegeta uses his new technique to its fullest on him. Or something like that.

[Grimlock]

Where do we go from here though? MUI? Broly? Beerus? Team effort?

How about... Majin Buu/Dai Kaioshin? It started with him, might as well end with him too. Use Vegeta's technique to split them apart, get Dai Kaioshin back. Let the god do something useful.

No? Too far-fetched?

[Matches Malone]

- Beerus, Whis and Merus are on their way. That's going to be relevant in some way, be it through Beerus or through Merus.

Whis healing Goku and Vegeta will definitely even out the playing field. From there, they can work together to separate them and take them on one on one.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Where do we go from here though? MUI? Broly? Beerus? Team effort?

How about... Majin Buu/Dai Kaioshin? It started with him, might as well end with him too. Use Vegeta's technique to split them apart, get Dai Kaioshin back. Let the god do something useful.

No? Too far-fetched?

- Beerus, Whis and Merus are on their way. That's going to be relevant in some way, be it through Beerus or through Merus.

Whis healing Goku and Vegeta will definitely even out the playing field. From there, they can work together to separate them and take them on one on one.

These 2 ideas. Whis heals Goku and Vegeta, upon Beerus' "orders". His part is done. He is there, they can rest assured, but they are more prepared than ever.

Goku using UI again and Vegeta using his openings to punch Moro and gradually weaken him. Buu comes and if Vegeta's technique isn't working, or even if it does, seals aways a large portion of his magic (he can't recover it now). Gohan, Piccolo and the androids try to distract Moro. They can do it.

As such everyone has a part to play in this.

[HeroR]

Considering Vegeta trained with this ability by using it on the Yardratians and everybody has Spirit, not just Ki, this doesn't mean the technique is only good for Moro. It will probably work on anyone, but it's just very effective here.

Androids probably don’t have spirit, so this fusion will likely mean Vegeta’s new technique that he spent so much time developing just for the sake of beating Moro is probably immediately neutered in the end fight and didn’t even last and entire chapter.

Yeah Vegeta fans are just going to looooove that....

I don't see why Androids shouldn't have Spirit. At least those like 17 and 18 and possibly 7-3 too.

Thinking about it, though, no one uses it, so who knows the extent that would affect somebody else other than Moro... it might not affect them at all, or very little.

But I think that's fine. Vegeta learned this technique at this specific moment to defeat Moro. Later on he can still use it, but it's good he doesn't get something that could just end every fight anytime he fights, like UI feels. Keeps things more interesting.

Also, man, I haven't seen you in so long lol

Not sure how UI wins a fight every time when UI literally never won in the manga. Even in the anime, it only defeated Kelfa and it wasn’t even mentioned in the Broly movie.

Also, I doubt we’ll ever see this again when Toyo pretends Goku doesn’t know the Evil Containment Wave nor Hakai.